80 column word processor for upgraded 600 XL?

[_The Doctor__]

as per usual you get the case for making things as bad as possible or how it won't work, as I stated, just turn the color off or us a mono (black and white) or amber green what have you monitor or television. Some old TV's also allowed for single gun modes (also later tv's allowed it as services mode settlings).

 80 Columns on a nice television/monitor was just fine. Some monitors of the day had worse dot pitch and mask schemes than some televisions back in the day. Almost all had settings that helped you improve what you wanted to see though.

[Jfcatari]

Has anyone used these for 80 columns?

 

https://thebrewingacademy.com/products/xep80-ii-by-mytek?variant=39492098490470

 

 

Also I have an ACE 80XL from Gavin.   I have to test with.

[ClausB]

55 minutes ago, Jfcatari said:

Also I have an ACE 80XL from Gavin.   I have to test with.

It works with a patched version of Letter Perfect. See:

 

 

[bfollowell]

3 hours ago, bfollowell said:

As to your question about adding the  XEP80 handlers or boot disks to your system, if you're asking what I think you're asking, then no, this wouldn't help at all. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you do not have an XEP80, correct? If not then adding these files or disks would not help because you do not have the necessary hardware to make use of them. If I'm mistaken and you do have an XEP80 and I missed it, then I'm sorry, but I really don't know much about them other than what I've read, but I'm certain there are users on here that can help you get it going.

 

 

I looked back and I think I may have missed that you were asking about the XEP80 devices and the disks. If that's the case, then yes, those together with what you have would help you get what you want. From all I've heard, the XEP80 is far from the best device to do this, but I know some like it, and it has enjoyed something of a resurgence lately since being reproduced and also reengineered using a Raspberry Pi Pico.

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by bfollowell

[newTIboyRob]

@flashjazzcat... thank you. Ok, I think I will give yours a go with my 800xl when ready, as it sounds like the most direct route for 80 column 64k use. 

 

@bfollowell  .. as for your other post paragraphs 1 and 4... ok, thanks.

                     .. as for paragraph 2, I'll take my chances with the composite output on screen and try TLW. The display still might be just good enough, as it was with other software.

                         (I don't have Sophia2 nor VBXE)

                     .. as for paragraph 3, you are correct with what I was asking and your last sentence said it all: since I don't have the actual needed XEP80 hardware, those things

                        I posted would be of no help- nor use- to me. (I thought that the files maybe contained things that did away with the actual hardware piece, but I see now, no.)  Thanks.

Edited October 22, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[+Larry]

A "freebee" is to use the XEP80 device in Altirra.  It is not difficult to set up and works great with Atariwriter 80.  My first WP was the Atariwriter cart, and I've never found one I like better.  I have Altirra on my laptop, and as little as I need an Atari 80 column WP, it is a great solution.

[FifthPlayer]

5 hours ago, bfollowell said:

There is really nothing strange or deficient about any of the stock Atari 8-bit computers not supporting 80 columns. Almost no 8-bit computers of the day, certainly none of what I think of as the big 3 home computers, Atari, Commodore, and Apple II supported 80 column displays in their stock configurations.

I only agree with this statement to a point.  Upgrading the Apple II for 80 columns was easy, and was very common.  Apple built in 80 column support, starting with the IIe.  Commodore also supported built-in 80 column on the C128, although that machine came along much later and wasn't nearly as successful as the C64.

[newTIboyRob]

I am with you, once again, @Larry  .. before I knew I was getting the Sdrive, I had bought the actual Atariwriter cartridge for the 600XL and within mins I was editing on it, just doing "moves" that I hoped it would before even looking at the manual, and it did just those moves. Very intuitive.

[newTIboyRob]

Agree @FifthPlayer ... with the Apple, and also I have a Commodore 64 program called Pocket Writer that is a wonderful 80 column wordprocessor which also works on the 128.

Edited October 22, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[bfollowell]

2 hours ago, FifthPlayer said:

I only agree with this statement to a point.  Upgrading the Apple II for 80 columns was easy, and was very common.  Apple built in 80 column support, starting with the IIe.  Commodore also supported built-in 80 column on the C128, although that machine came along much later and wasn't nearly as successful as the C64.

Yes, but those were and are upgrades. Those didn't come in most stock Apple IIs, hence my statement that these didn't come with stock configurations. Were they easy to upgrade? Yes. They still required upgrades and more money to get 80 columns. I did forget about the C128 though. Personally, I've never seen one in real life. From what I've read they sold in very small quantities, but you're right, they did have built-in 80 columns. I still stand by my statement that most 8-bit computers weren't capable of 80 columns in their stock configurations. For the sake of my post, that means without upgrades since I think most of us would agree that that's what stock means.

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by bfollowell

[FifthPlayer]

3 hours ago, bfollowell said:

Yes, but those were and are upgrades.

Every machine in the Apple II family from the IIe onward (introduced January 1983) had built-in 80-column circuitry and firmware support which needed only the addition of a cheap memory card to function (and on the IIc and IIgs even the memory was standard).  From BYTE's review of the IIe: "I suspect that few users will stay with the 40-column display. The two 80 column options are just too useful — and too inexpensive — to be ignored."  You can call it an upgrade but it's splitting hairs: in practice, 80-column displays were pretty common across the Apple II family.  It was primarily Atari and C64 owners who lacked a widely available, standardized 80-column option.

Edited October 23, 2023 by FifthPlayer

[newTIboyRob]

Maybe we should call it a different term like "enhancement" or "addition" or something, as that term "upgrade" kind of puts us in gray territory? 

[bfollowell]

11 minutes ago, newTIboyRob said:

Maybe we should call it a different term like "enhancement" or "addition" or something, as that term "upgrade" kind of puts us in gray territory? 

 

I'm fine with calling it anything but stock if it entailed purchasing additional hardware of any sort to make use of it. Anything that could be used straight out of the box after the original purchase would be stock.

 

From what @FifthPlayer has said though, it definitely sounds like upgrading to 80 columns with the Apple II series was much easier, and cheaper, than with the A8 or the C64.

 

[newTIboyRob]

@bfollowell ... Absolutely was.

[Forrest]

You’re not comparing apples to oranges, er Atari’s.
 

in 1983, the Apple IIe cost a LOT more than a C64 or Atari 600XL/800XL. I looked thru the December, 1983 issue of Compute! Magazine and the 600XL was $149, the 800XL was $269, the C64 was $219. Prices were not listed for the Apple IIe, but I recall it being over $1000 at the local computer store. The II+/IIe was a popular computer in schools, but not a computer the average high school or college student could afford in my opinion. Heck, my first car cost less than an Apple IIe.

[+Stephen]

Let's not forget the original Apples didn't even have standard lowercase characters without an upgrade.  But, I firmly believe that the ability, the ease, of an 80 column upgrade is what let the machines flourish into the 90s, while the A8 and C64 both ended up being seen as "video game toys".  Sad, but that's how it played out.

[newTIboyRob]

And the other video game toy.... the VIC-20!  Still have one.

[gozar]

Back to the topic, I say you stick with AtariWriter or The Last Word at 40 columns. Back in the day I really wanted 80 colunmns, but nowadays I realize that I don't need 80 columns to write. The print preview in AtariWriter works well at showing where page breaks would be. I wrote A LOT in AtariWriter back in the day.

 

When I write on my A8s today, I use The Last Word in 40 columns and use Markdown for formatting because I'm usually going to bring the text into something else anyway.

 

[newTIboyRob]

Nice points, gozar, thank you.

[FifthPlayer]

8 hours ago, gozar said:

Back in the day I really wanted 80 colunmns, but nowadays I realize that I don't need 80 columns to write. The print preview in AtariWriter works well at showing where page breaks would be. I wrote A LOT in AtariWriter back in the day.

 

I wrote quite a lot of things with AtariWriter back in the day, and 40 columns with the 80-column scrolling print preview definitely was good enough to get the job done.

[Geister]

I agree with Stephen that the lack of 80 columns kept most 8-bit computers from being perceived as "serious" computers.  Atari shot themselves in the foot by not continuing with the 1090 expansion system or a native 80 column upgrade path.  The XEP-80 was too little, to late.

But the writing was already on the wall for Apple by the time the IBM PC came out and they made the right decision to move to a 16-bit platform.  It could have been a toss-up between the II-GS and the MAC, but Jobs had an outcome in mind.  If he hadn't stabbed WOZ in the back it might be a much different world today.

[+MrFish]

2 hours ago, Geister said:

If he hadn't stabbed WOZ in the back it might be a much different world today.

I doubt that.

 

[newTIboyRob]

@MrFish... thank you for your recommendation of TLW. Once I get my 800XL repaired, I will give it a go.

Edited October 24, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[+MrFish]

2 hours ago, newTIboyRob said:

@MrFish... thank you for your recommendation of TLW. Once I get my 800XL repaired, I will give it a go.

I created most of the fonts and the title screen for it. I also provided @flashjazzcat with various design suggestions. The most-recent versions of it were also developed with a lot of input from people on the AtariAge forums.

 

I've used it quite a bit for smaller development projects in Turbo-BASIC XL. The 80-column mode helps make program code more readable; longer lines of code can fit on screen without wrapping as often.

 

[+MrFish]

Here's an example with one of the 40-column fonts that I use most often for regular word processing.