Glorkbot Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 On Atari.com the status of the paddle bundle has changed from “sold out” to “waitlist” so go sign up for the waitlist if you want them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chad5200 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 4 hours ago, Sean_1970 said: It’s weird that it’s so specific to this and Breakout - what’s your experience with Circus Atari (which I find a lot less jittery on 2600+) and Kaboom (which is pretty jittery)? Circus Atari "feels" better gameplay-wise. But again, there is less resolution when moving the paddle on the 2600+ which makes the character "jump" more with each fine tuning of the paddle. I am really hoping this gets addressed as the 2600+ is really a nice system and so far has the best paddles of any of the modern reproductions. If the 2600+ just had the SAME fine resolution that the original 2600 performs at, it would be amazing! Here is a video comparison... 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEANJIMMY Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 5 hours ago, Sean_1970 said: It’s weird that it’s so specific to this and Breakout - what’s your experience with Circus Atari (which I find a lot less jittery on 2600+) and Kaboom (which is pretty jittery)? EDIT: This was written before I saw the previous post so my experience was rather related to different paddles! Hmm, as you say... Circus Atari felt a little bit jittery on 2600 Jr when I tested it but was very smooth on the 2600+🤔 Well, as I used different paddles for this one I can't be 100% sure about Circus Atari. So having an Ui to fine tune and save settings per game would help a lot. Edited January 4 by DEANJIMMY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 7 hours ago, chad5200 said: Here is a quick video showing the difference between the classic 2600 and the new 2600+ in regards to paddle resolution in the game Super Breakout. Same game, same TV, and same paddles (the excellent brand new CX30+) used on both systems in this comparison. I have a line near the bottom to help show the differences. Ugh, that's very obvious. But definitely not how Stella works. @Ben from Plaion That's definitely not right. Edited January 4 by Thomas Jentzsch 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSetIlly Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 10 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: Ugh, that's very obvious. But definitely not how Stella works. @Ben from Plaion That's definitely not right. Doesn't libretro handle user input? If they're using the libretro version of Stella than that might be the reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 minutes ago, JetSetIlly said: Doesn't libretro handle user input? If they're using the libretro version of Stella than that might be the reason. Maybe. But I don't think it is that bad and nobody has complained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 5 hours ago, chad5200 said: Circus Atari "feels" better gameplay-wise. But again, there is less resolution when moving the paddle on the 2600+ which makes the character "jump" more with each fine tuning of the paddle. I am really hoping this gets addressed as the 2600+ is really a nice system and so far has the best paddles of any of the modern reproductions. If the 2600+ just had the SAME fine resolution that the original 2600 performs at, it would be amazing! Here is a video comparison... Yeah that is pretty clear. From reading other posts related to hardware and software of this system the implication is that it’s a consequence of not simply using Stella emulation for controller input. I’m guessing the reason why will have something to do with 7800 support? Would the fix then be to have some better separation between the emulators so that there is no user input layer? This appears to be why touch pad, driving controller and other 2600 peripherals that work with Stella aren’t seen by the 2600+. Although I have a few 7800 games that I like, I have to say compromising 2600 compatibility to support 7800 games is starting to seem like not a great idea. Hopefully it can be fixed in a future update. Edited January 4 by Sean_1970 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Video Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 It could also be how people play a game. I remember even bitd that paddle games had slight jitter, and why I thought they did. But, going into a game like breakout, especially if your a modern gamer, people are used to controllers being absolute precise and easy to control, and Atari never was, bitd we didn't notice as there was no other options. Even with the joystick (they were always fairly bad, but most had preferred better controllers, like silk stick) if you play a paddle game like a modern controller game, I could see issues, like track the ball and try to keep the paddle centered, I couldn't do that, never could. I've always played, watch the ball bounce, calculate where it should come down, and run the paddle to the new position, only adjusting if I'm slightly off. I never followed the ball. This difference in play style may make the difference from playable to not playable. Also, I could be wrong, but does the plus actually properly read analog pots? It could be converting A digital out, to analog pot, and back to digital at the console, so potentially not really play correct. As for real consoles, I doubt the new paddle is a one to one with the original model. Like I said, I believe the originals registered 256 or so steps, only half used. The new ones could be a straight 200 or 300 step, I assume still only half used, which could cause issues. There is a reason people have for decades pushed for cleaning original paddles, rather than getting new ones, the specific pot Atari used isn't made, by anybody. So we just had no modern options. You get the original specifications and someone willing to spend money could have a manufacturer produce an exact one. Just most Joe blows don't have the kind of cash to produce a minimum order (some as few as 10k units) I'm just glad Atari had some made, even if they turn out not perfect. Ill probably dif out kaboom and some others and try them this weekend. I seem to recall kaboom with zero jitter (could be wrong though) also, maybe dig out my test cart and see what happens, assuming it works. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjames_s_2000 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) This is just anecdotal information as the only paddle game I've been playing on the 2600+ is Kaboom... I do find the paddle controller "feels" just a bit different between the original hardware and the plus. Having said that you quickly get used to the slightly different tuning and the game is still very playable on either system. (just that it looks GREAT on the 2600+). It's definitely a bit jarring if you are switching back and forth between systems, but once you keep to one platform I do get used to things. I find the benefits of the great hdmi picture have me playing Kaboom on the 2600+ going forward. To me the only downside would be if I was to join an international Kaboom championship club where I had to switch to original hardware again, but that won't be happening. It reminds me of the Leave it to Beaver episode where Ward installed a basketball hoop on the Cleaver's garage. Eddie Haskell measured it to be something like 1.5" off from regulation and refused to throw off his game by using it. Wally and Beaver could still have fun though. Note: I'm using original Atari paddles that I upgraded with what Best Electronics calls a "lifetime potentiometer". Note2: So far the only thing keeping me using the original console is INDY500 and driving controllers. I know Ben mentioned his developers thought driving controllers would be a tough nut to crack, but I will promise that if an upgraded 2600+ comes down the pike with driving controller support I will buy a second unit next Christmas! Edited January 4 by kjames_s_2000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chad5200 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 47 minutes ago, kjames_s_2000 said: I do find the paddle controller "feels" just a bit different between the original hardware and the plus. It feels different because it appears that the 2600+ paddle emulation has only about half the resolution of an original 2600. Here is a video comparing the same paddles in Kaboom on original 2600 vs. new 2600+. Again, the 2600 paddles are such a great and unique controller and we just want them to be the best they can possibly be on the 2600+. I am really hoping this is possible to fix in a firmware update. @Ben from Plaion 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 15 hours ago, chad5200 said: Do the same thing but with Super Breakout. Confirmed. (2600 on the left, 2600+ on the right) 2024-01-04 10-06-13.mp4 2024-01-04 10-04-22.mp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chad5200 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 36 minutes ago, remowilliams said: Confirmed. (2600 on the left, 2600+ on the right) Looks like your video matches mine where the original 2600 has about twice the paddle resolution of the new 2600+. I counted about 32 paddle positions on the new 2600+ and at least double that on the original 2600. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, chad5200 said: It feels different because it appears that the 2600+ paddle emulation has only about half the resolution of an original 2600. Here is a video comparing the same paddles in Kaboom on original 2600 vs. new 2600+. Again, the 2600 paddles are such a great and unique controller and we just want them to be the best they can possibly be on the 2600+. I am really hoping this is possible to fix in a firmware update. @Ben from Plaion Taking notes. Good comparison videos for reference thanks. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Is any change likely to impact something like Video Olympics, which felt spot on to me (maybe tracking for a vertical on-screen paddle is different?). Be interesting to see Video Olympics and Warlords where your paddle is going around a corner… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Sean_1970 said: Is any change likely to impact something like Video Olympics, which felt spot on to me (maybe tracking for a vertical on-screen paddle is different?). Be interesting to see Video Olympics and Warlords where your paddle is going around a corner… I dont think so as Breakout moves much smoother then the video above showing Super Breakout. Edited January 4 by Ben from Plaion 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEANJIMMY Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 4 hours ago, Sean_1970 said: Yeah that is pretty clear. From reading other posts related to hardware and software of this system the implication is that it’s a consequence of not simply using Stella emulation for controller input. I’m guessing the reason why will have something to do with 7800 support? Would the fix then be to have some better separation between the emulators so that there is no user input layer? This appears to be why touch pad, driving controller and other 2600 peripherals that work with Stella aren’t seen by the 2600+. Although I have a few 7800 games that I like, I have to say compromising 2600 compatibility to support 7800 games is starting to seem like not a great idea. Hopefully it can be fixed in a future update. Today I tested Crazy Brix 7800 PAL on V1.1 by use of the escape sequence (force PAL) and it worked but paddles didn't. I learnded from the develeopper paddles are not supported by prosystem (yet). So there is no interfearance regarding paddles between 7800 and 2600 at all, from my understanding. While paddles connected, I tested Kaboom PAL and Super Breakout PAL on V1.1 again and well, the situation improved! As I know that the games are not perfect on real HW too, maybe my expectation is less now and I do not expect any changes in V1.1 related to paddles but running these games on 50Hz now, seems to improve the overall gaming experience and I could play both games much better😊 Then I started Solar Storm, still smooth paddles but now I see more shots missing and died without knowing why. Probably due to the frame skip problems with 50Hz on the V1.1 I guess. Edited January 4 by DEANJIMMY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chad5200 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, Ben from Plaion said: I dont think so as Breakout moves much smoother then the video above showing Super Breakout. I hate to say it, but regular Breakout also suffers the same "less paddle resolution" as the other games I've shared videos of (Super Breakout, Circus Atari, and Kaboom). If you want, I can make a comparison video. I am now thinking the less paddle resolution issue exists on all 2600+ paddle games and is easier to see in games where the player is moving across the whole screen. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErwinHooi Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 On 1/1/2024 at 4:13 PM, ErwinHooi said: I noticed that player 3 and 4 on the second set of paddles don’t work correctly with Warlords! They barely reach one third of the position range:( I connected both the new and original paddle controller set to the second connector but both with same result. With no controllers connected it already shows that player 3 and player 4 positions are incorrect. Such a bummer, so no need to order a second set of paddles for now! Anyone else with the same experience or is it just me, with something wrong at my console? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glokenpop Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 On 1/4/2024 at 8:45 AM, chad5200 said: Here is a quick video showing the difference between the classic 2600 and the new 2600+ in regards to paddle resolution in the game Super Breakout. Same game, same TV, and same paddles (the excellent brand new CX30+) used on both systems in this comparison. I have a line near the bottom to help show the differences. Thanks so much for doing this. It's a clever way of illustrating the issue. I love the paddles they have made, I'm so glad this is getting some attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Ray Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 20 hours ago, remowilliams said: Confirmed. (2600 on the left, 2600+ on the right) 2024-01-04 10-06-13.mp4 1.64 MB · 0 downloads 2024-01-04 10-04-22.mp4 1.02 MB · 0 downloads Wooooooooooow. The 2600+ is way off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorkbot Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 My paddle controller bundle arrived today (I imported from the UK since USA is currently backordered). I'm glad to have them...but they're definitely not quite right. Sometimes, with a small adjustment, the paddle doesn't move at all. Hoping for a firmware update that increases their resolution. If it can't be done, well...I'm still glad to have them! It's better than trying to control a paddle game with a joystick, or not being able to play one at all, that's for sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_813 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 They are currently showing availability on Amazon. I just ordered a set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akator Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 On 1/5/2024 at 2:13 PM, Glorkbot said: My paddle controller bundle arrived today (I imported from the UK since USA is currently backordered). That's interesting... I ordered mine from Amazon US on December 28 (two days after you order yours from Amazon UK) and they haven't even shipped yet. Crazy that Amazon UK ships them faster to the US than Amazon US does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Video Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Anybody tried warlords yet? The paddle follows a tiny curved track, if it does that half res like other games I could see that being unplayable. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEANJIMMY Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 18 minutes ago, Video said: Anybody tried warlords yet? The paddle follows a tiny curved track, if it does that half res like other games I could see that being unplayable. Warlords plays fine🤗 I am on V1.1 but it should be the same on V1.0 if you have an NTSC cart. Kaboom PAL plays better on V1.1 due to the 50Hz I guess but Warlords should be fine on V1.0 too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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