scifidude79 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 I can confirm Warlords is fine on the 1.0 firmware. I played a game when I got my paddle set and I haven't updated my console. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+karri Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 49 minutes ago, scifidude79 said: I can confirm Warlords is fine on the 1.0 firmware. I played a game when I got my paddle set and I haven't updated my console. One thing I have been looking for is a bundle of two paddles and Medieval Mayhem. It is the kind of game I would like to bring with me to a retro event. It is simple enough to play. Catching the ball an aiming at another players castle makes it more interesting than just bouncing the ball. Actually it is the game that brought a smile to my face at eJagfest this year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glokenpop Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 10 hours ago, karri said: One thing I have been looking for is a bundle of two paddles and Medieval Mayhem. It is the kind of game I would like to bring with me to a retro event. It is simple enough to play. Catching the ball an aiming at another players castle makes it more interesting than just bouncing the ball. Actually it is the game that brought a smile to my face at eJagfest this year. Yeah that's a no brainer. I got a copy of Mayhem myself just to play on this but now waiting to see if they can sort out the emulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorkbot Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 10 hours ago, karri said: One thing I have been looking for is a bundle of two paddles and Medieval Mayhem. It is the kind of game I would like to bring with me to a retro event. It is simple enough to play. Catching the ball an aiming at another players castle makes it more interesting than just bouncing the ball. Actually it is the game that brought a smile to my face at eJagfest this year. You can catch the ball in Warlords too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KainXavier Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 On 1/6/2024 at 5:33 PM, Video said: Anybody tried warlords yet? The paddle follows a tiny curved track, if it does that half res like other games I could see that being unplayable. Warlords is also affected. It's just less noticeable than Super Breakout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glokenpop Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 On 12/3/2023 at 3:14 PM, Living Room Arcade said: Has anyone tried the new paddles on a PC running Stella using a nine pin to USB adapter? I have just got the icode they work great there is significant lag but I think that is the encoder and could easily be some settings I don't know about yet. Waiting to see how it goes on the Mister. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fafner Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Forgive me cus I know this has been discussed but reading through the full thread I’m still a bit unsure… I got my new Paddles the other day and I notice the SLIGHTEST bit of input lag on them. Honestly it’s so low I imagine most people who didn’t grow up with them would even notice. Without going crazy into technical details can we expect this will get better with a firmware update or is this as good as it can be based on hardware/emulation limitation's? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorkbot Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 hour ago, Fafner said: I got my new Paddles the other day and I notice the SLIGHTEST bit of input lag on them. I think it only feels like lag because it registers only half the resolution of movement as on a real Atari 2600. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 This discussion could use a common definition of terms, people are using terms to mean inconsistent things. Perhaps something like: Lag / Latency - Delay noticed between input and observed reaction. A complete accounting of latency would need to take into consideration everything in the entire input to display chain. This includes input device latency, input frame pacing, OS layer / input latency, emulator latency, all the way through to inherent display latency. Control resolution - Perceived granularity of an input. This can be affected by the input device itself, input hardware sampling, emulation wrappers/abstraction layers (i.e. Libretro) and the underlying Stella emulation settings such as sensitivity/linearity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alissa914 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) On 11/26/2023 at 4:41 PM, pongstroid said: Yeah, I do. A couple of years ago I spent an inordinate amount of time trying to reduce latency for playing Rockband 4. The end result: had to keep my Atmos receiver out of the equation and play sound directly from the tv, along with enabling game mode (alongside other settings). My testing took advantage of all of that. So I'm good there. Reminds me of my old Roku TV and sound bar... unless it's 5.1 DD or DTS, it tries to convert it to such (or does it anyway)... always introduces lag. I used to have to strip out the audio using an audio stripper and use that cable to go to the sound bar. But then I got a Sony GoogleTV w/ DolbyVision and haven't had the problem since... sometimes, you need to spend more than you want to... as long as it lasts 5+ years. Edited January 9 by alissa914 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stebai Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) I find the Paddles the most disappointing element of the 2600+. The original paddles zipped across the screen smoothly and were a joy to use (admittedly was on a CRT and nearly 50 years ago - yes I am that old!) My experience with the new Paddle pack has been quite poor, they do judder across my screen and there is a small lag in comparison to my original VCS, and yes it is set to "game" mode, I have many consoles and no problems with refresh on any of them. I realize this is most likely software and not hardware related but it does take a lot of joy from the 2600+ for me. I was really hoping the new firmware update would address this, but it appears not. Is this going to be an issue that the developers simply cannot fix? I saw this from Glorkbot :- "I think it only feels like lag because it registers only half the resolution of movement as on a real Atari 2600." Is the emulator not capable of achieving this? Thanks for any answers or help anyone can provide. Edited January 10 by stebai 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorkbot Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 2 hours ago, stebai said: I saw this from Glorkbot :- "I think it only feels like lag because it registers only half the resolution of movement as on a real Atari 2600." Is the emulator not capable of achieving this? The emulator that Atari 2600+ uses is Stella, and it's definitely capable of achieving higher movement resolution from these paddles. I just tested the new paddles for the Atari 2600+ using the Stella emulator on my computer and the paddles work great. Smooth as butter and very responsive. I think it's something about the interface on the Atari 2600+, before it gets to the emulator, causing the problem. I'm still glad I bought it, because I really needed new paddles. And I'm hoping that a future firmware update fixes it, because using the paddles on my computer is currently a far better experience than using the paddles on the Atari 2600+. (And hoping that the firmware update is Mac OS friendly so I can actually apply it to my unit.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fafner Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 8 hours ago, Glorkbot said: I think it only feels like lag because it registers only half the resolution of movement as on a real Atari 2600. 7 hours ago, remowilliams said: This discussion could use a common definition of terms, people are using terms to mean inconsistent things. Perhaps something like: Lag / Latency - Delay noticed between input and observed reaction. A complete accounting of latency would need to take into consideration everything in the entire input to display chain. This includes input device latency, input frame pacing, OS layer / input latency, emulator latency, all the way through to inherent display latency. Control resolution - Perceived granularity of an input. This can be affected by the input device itself, input hardware sampling, emulation wrappers/abstraction layers (i.e. Libretro) and the underlying Stella emulation settings such as sensitivity/linearity. I understand what you guys are saying but it doesn’t really answer my actual question… Will it be something that can possibly be fixed with an update or are we at a stage where this is as good as it gets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorkbot Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Fafner said: I understand what you guys are saying but it doesn’t really answer my actual question… Will it be something that can possibly be fixed with an update or are we at a stage where this is as good as it gets? I have no idea. I just said I hope they fix it. From other posts on the forum it looks like @Ben from Plaion has been made aware of the problem, and they didn't say it's impossible (yet) so I hope that means they're looking into fixing it. Fingers crossed! Edited January 10 by Glorkbot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 11 hours ago, Fafner said: Will it be something that can possibly be fixed with an update or are we at a stage where this is as good as it gets? I think the correct answer at this point is 'possibly, but it depends' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fafner Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 11 hours ago, Glorkbot said: they didn't say it's impossible (yet) so I hope that means they're looking into fixing it. Fingers crossed! Me too! Like I said it’s not HORRIBLE but it could be a touch better. Here’s hopin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorkbot Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 The paddles bundle is back in stock at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Game-Cartridge-Paddle-Pack-Atari-2600/dp/ (but they’re still waitlisted at Atari.com) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Ray Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 19 hours ago, Glorkbot said: The emulator that Atari 2600+ uses is Stella, and it's definitely capable of achieving higher movement resolution from these paddles. I just tested the new paddles for the Atari 2600+ using the Stella emulator on my computer and the paddles work great. Smooth as butter and very responsive. I think it's something about the interface on the Atari 2600+, before it gets to the emulator, causing the problem. I'm still glad I bought it, because I really needed new paddles. And I'm hoping that a future firmware update fixes it, because using the paddles on my computer is currently a far better experience than using the paddles on the Atari 2600+. (And hoping that the firmware update is Mac OS friendly so I can actually apply it to my unit.) I don't think it's so much the interface as much as it might be a poor implementation of things. The 2600+, as released, has a handful of own goals, like the questionable paddle support, 7800 swapped buttons, 7800 phantom button presses, the difficulty switches being inverted, Yars Return not working correctly, etc. The 1.1 beta firmware has helped some things, but it's not a complete fix. The 2600+ seems like it has good bones, but it came out in a disappointing state in the execution of the little details. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye68 Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 2 hours ago, Gamma Ray said: I don't think it's so much the interface as much as it might be a poor implementation of things. The 2600+, as released, has a handful of own goals, like the questionable paddle support, 7800 swapped buttons, 7800 phantom button presses, the difficulty switches being inverted, Yars Return not working correctly, etc. The 1.1 beta firmware has helped some things, but it's not a complete fix. The 2600+ seems like it has good bones, but it came out in a disappointing state in the execution of the little details. Agree. It's odd that so much attention was paid to getting the hardware right and yet things like the difficulty switches and paddle resolution would have been obvious to anyone who grew up with an Atari. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorkbot Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 3 hours ago, Gamma Ray said: I don't think it's so much the interface If the problem with the paddles is not the emulator (it’s not, Stella can handle paddles beautifully) and it’s not the paddles themselves (it’s not, the paddles work beautifully on an original Atari or on a computer) then the problem must be in the interface between the paddles and the emulator. Edited January 11 by Glorkbot 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 24 minutes ago, Glorkbot said: If the problem with the paddles is not the emulator (it’s not, Stella can handle paddles beautifully) and it’s not the paddles themselves (it’s not, the paddles work beautifully on an original Atari or on a computer) then the problem must be in the interface between the paddles and the emulator. On 1/9/2024 at 4:13 PM, remowilliams said: Control resolution - Perceived granularity of an input. This can be affected by the input device itself, input hardware sampling, emulation wrappers/abstraction layers (i.e. Libretro) and the underlying Stella emulation settings such as sensitivity/linearity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 6 hours ago, Glorkbot said: ...then the problem must be in the interface between the paddles and the emulator. Which are the MCU, RetroArch, what else? Edited January 11 by Thomas Jentzsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 5 hours ago, remowilliams said: Control resolution - Perceived granularity of an input. This can be affected by the input device itself, input hardware sampling, emulation wrappers/abstraction layers (i.e. Libretro) and the underlying Stella emulation settings such as sensitivity/linearity. Since we have no UI (and Ben too), most likely only his Chinese developers can tell. Which is a quite unfortunate situation, because it makes things complicated and results into quite some delays. Given the number of issues we know already, I get the feeling that the slow development cycle is or will become a major problem. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 1 hour ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: Since we have no UI (and Ben too), most likely only his Chinese developers can tell. Which is a quite unfortunate situation, because it makes things complicated and results into quite some delays. Given the number of issues we know already, I get the feeling that the slow development cycle is or will become a major problem. All the more reason to get this firmware update to be as comprehensive as possible then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 29 minutes ago, Sean_1970 said: All the more reason to get this firmware update to be as comprehensive as possible then! Actually, I think the opposite is true. Small, iterative updates are much easier to handle. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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