The Paddles

[Aawon]

I returned my paddle set and replaced it with a new set and it is night and day better.  Hopefully it stays this way and I simply had a defective controller the first time. 

[dualcam]

Can you provide a video of the jitter, or describe in more detail what you are seeing?  Sometimes I think "jitter" gets used as a generic term.  To me, jitter is the player quickly dancing back & forth on screen when the paddle controller is stationary.

 

Tom

http://2600-daptor.com/

[dualcam]

On 2/7/2024 at 2:43 PM, Aawon said:

Is anyone having significant jitters with the new paddle controllers and the 2600+? Here is a video of me very slowly turning the paddle in Super Breakout and it is jumping all over. Kaboom does the same. I dont have old controllers or an original system to compare it to. I also have not installed the beta update. 

Just saw this vid had been previously posted.  Something like this is mostly like the paddle controller - could be the pot or loose connection.

 

Tom

http://2600-daptor.com/

 

Edited February 15 by dualcam

[radiohead]

50 minutes ago, dualcam said:

Just saw this vid had been previously posted.  Something like this is mostly like the paddle controller - could be the pot or loose connection.

 

Tom

http://2600-daptor.com/

 

I can make a quick video when I get home tonight if you like, but yes it's kind of like that, but only on one paddle. With quick, broad spinning of the dial from one side of the screen to the other, the paddle performs relatively fine. It's during slow, incremental turning, the paddle shakes - but again only on one paddle. I swapped the paddle settings in Stella so that I'm now playing the other less-used paddle and the shaky paddle (that I had been using) is now player 2. Neither seemed to shake when I first used them, but now 3 weeks later, I notice shakiness. I successfully updated the 2600PDL firmware (from 5/23 whether it needed it or not), changed out the USB B cable, and tried all the dip switch combos and found (on Maximum Range) that the shakiness has reduced a bit. But one paddle is clearly jittery/shakier than the other. If it were a PDL daptor issue, wouldn't both paddles be affected?

[radiohead]

6 hours ago, dualcam said:

Can you provide a video of the jitter, or describe in more detail what you are seeing?  Sometimes I think "jitter" gets used as a generic term.  To me, jitter is the player quickly dancing back & forth on screen when the paddle controller is stationary.

 

Tom

http://2600-daptor.com/

4 hours ago, radiohead said:

With quick, broad spinning of the dial from one side of the screen to the other, the paddle performs relatively fine. It's during slow, incremental turning, the paddle shakes - but again only on one paddle. I swapped the paddle settings in Stella so that I'm now playing the other less-used paddle and the shaky paddle (that I had been using) is now player 2. Neither seemed to shake when I first used them, but now 3 weeks later, I notice shakiness.

Here's what I'm experiencing. Paddle/Player1 is smooth, Paddle/Player2 looks shaky. When moving fast its relatively ok, when moving slower, Paddle 2 is jittery/shaky. Using new Atari 4-1 Pack Paddles 3 weeks old using 2600-daptor PDL with Stella 6.7 (PC and Raspberry Pi.)  Maybe I'm being picky, but I've already sunk $90 in the paddles ($30 for the 2600-daptor, $20 for used paddles which had terrible jitter even with cleaning, and these $40 4-1 Pack paddles). I would expect both new controllers would feel and operate the same.

Edited February 15 by radiohead

[dualcam]

20 hours ago, radiohead said:

Here's what I'm experiencing. Paddle/Player1 is smooth, Paddle/Player2 looks shaky. When moving fast its relatively ok, when moving slower, Paddle 2 is jittery/shaky. Using new Atari 4-1 Pack Paddles 3 weeks old using 2600-daptor PDL with Stella 6.7 (PC and Raspberry Pi.)  Maybe I'm being picky, but I've already sunk $90 in the paddles ($30 for the 2600-daptor, $20 for used paddles which had terrible jitter even with cleaning, and these $40 4-1 Pack paddles). I would expect both new controllers would feel and operate the same.

 

 

Thanks for the vid.  Not as obvious as in the other posted vid, but do see some shakiness.  I don't think it is the adapter, but the 2 paddles are on 2 separate inputs, so would be possible for there to be an adapter problem that only affects one paddle. 

 

A vid on what to expect (using AtGames Flashback 8 paddles) -

http://2600-daptor.com/VID20240216092020.mp4

The server that 2600-daptor is hosted on is throttled, so down-load and watch off your device to avoid video buffering.

 

Happy to swap adapters with you if you like, though would really be surprised if this is the adapter.

 

EDIT: Just to add, this is Stella 6.7.1 and Win 11 x64.

 

Tom

http://2600-daptor.com/

Edited February 16 by dualcam

[radiohead]

5 hours ago, dualcam said:

 

Thanks for the vid.  Not as obvious as in the other posted vid, but do see some shakiness.  I don't think it is the adapter, but the 2 paddles are on 2 separate inputs, so would be possible for there to be an adapter problem that only affects one paddle. 

 

A vid on what to expect (using AtGames Flashback 8 paddles) -

http://2600-daptor.com/VID20240216092020.mp4

The server that 2600-daptor is hosted on is throttled, so down-load and watch off your device to avoid video buffering.

 

Happy to swap adapters with you if you like, though would really be surprised if this is the adapter.

 

EDIT: Just to add, this is Stella 6.7.1 and Win 11 x64.

 

Tom

http://2600-daptor.com/

I appreciate your help. The issue is just the one paddle, regardless of the swap setting, port or input. I'm thinking it is a faulty potentiometer of that paddle due to wear - though it's only a few weeks old. I'm sure it'll get worse, so while I still can, I've returned it to Amazon today for an exchange and I'll see if another new set of paddles are any better. 

Edited February 16 by radiohead

[Pac-Man Senior]

I captured my paddle in Super Breakout (PAL) for some seconds from my crt - without touching anything. It's on an original Atari 2600 Junior, paddles are the ones that came with the 4in1 cartridge. What causes this movement? Was it even there in the 80ies?

 

And I must say today is a good paddle day. When moving the paddles they are smooth - at the moment. 

 

 

 

[dualcam]

3 hours ago, Pac-Man Senior said:

I captured my paddle in Super Breakout (PAL) for some seconds from my crt - without touching anything. It's on an original Atari 2600 Junior, paddles are the ones that came with the 4in1 cartridge. What causes this movement? Was it even there in the 80ies?

 

And I must say today is a good paddle day. When moving the paddles they are smooth - at the moment. 

 

 

 

Have you checked for this in other games?  I don't have my original 2600 setup right now to check, but this might just be a quirk of super-breakout.  I find the paddle response of super-breakout to be extra sensitive compared to other paddle games.  In Kaboom!, the buckets will rhythmically sway back and forth while waiting for the player to start - that is just a quirk of that game.

 

Tom

http://2600-daptor.com/

 

 

 

 

[Sean_1970]

2 hours ago, dualcam said:

Have you checked for this in other games?  I don't have my original 2600 setup right now to check, but this might just be a quirk of super-breakout.  I find the paddle response of super-breakout to be extra sensitive compared to other paddle games.  In Kaboom!, the buckets will rhythmically sway back and forth while waiting for the player to start - that is just a quirk of that game.

 

Tom

http://2600-daptor.com/

 

 

 

 

I have observed this in Super Breakout today and in Circus Atari. I get the sense that the pots are sensitive enough you can move the controller without touching the dial abd it will move a wee bit. Increasing the screen resolution to paddle ratio would likely compensate for this.

[Pac-Man Senior]

20 hours ago, dualcam said:

Have you checked for this in other games?  I don't have my original 2600 setup right now to check, but this might just be a quirk of super-breakout.  I find the paddle response of super-breakout to be extra sensitive compared to other paddle games.  In Kaboom!, the buckets will rhythmically sway back and forth while waiting for the player to start - that is just a quirk of that game.

 

 

 

 

This is the same new Atari Paddle in Breakout (4in1, NTSC) on the same crt. Captured with my Pentax DSLR on a tripod. First part without touching anything. Then a few seconds moving slowly left/right/left. Not as jumpy as in emulation but not smooth enough for original hardware in my opinion.:

 

 

 

[Pac-Man Senior]

20 hours ago, dualcam said:

Tom

http://2600-daptor.com/

 

 

 

 

Another question: Are you the daptor guy? If so, is there an option to buy the daptor via ebay? I'm asking because here in Europe the site is shown as "unsure".

 

[dualcam]

3 hours ago, Pac-Man Senior said:

This is the same new Atari Paddle in Breakout (4in1, NTSC) on the same crt. Captured with my Pentax DSLR on a tripod. First part without touching anything. Then a few seconds moving slowly left/right/left. Not as jumpy as in emulation but not smooth enough for original hardware in my opinion.:

 

 

 

 

Yes, should be smoother than that.

 

3 hours ago, Pac-Man Senior said:

Another question: Are you the daptor guy? If so, is there an option to buy the daptor via ebay? I'm asking because here in Europe the site is shown as "unsure".

 

 

Yes, I make and sell the 2600-adapter's.  The site is HTTP, not HTTPS.  I don't see the site needs HTTPS as the actual checkout is done via PayPal which is HTTPS.

 

Tom

http://2600-daptor.com/

 

 

[Pac-Man Senior]

@dualcam In Europe (EU) HTTPS is obligatory for every website. I think there are some good reasons why. For my private websites I configured "Let's encrypt" for free. But PayPal would have been the second problem for me. I'm a bit old-fashioned in my payment methods too. But nevertheless thanks for your answer. I like the idea of the 2600-daptor!

[Thomas Jentzsch]

4 hours ago, dualcam said:

I don't see the site needs HTTPS as the actual checkout is done via PayPal which is HTTPS.

You should still switch to HTTPS, because browsers have started to block HTTP websites.

[dualcam]

20 hours ago, Pac-Man Senior said:

@dualcam In Europe (EU) HTTPS is obligatory for every website. I think there are some good reasons why. For my private websites I configured "Let's encrypt" for free. But PayPal would have been the second problem for me. I'm a bit old-fashioned in my payment methods too. But nevertheless thanks for your answer. I like the idea of the 2600-daptor!

Thanks, I had not heard of "Let's encrypt".  I was not wanting to have to pay an additional annual fee to the site host for a root certificate.

 

Tom

http://2600-daptor.com/

[radiohead]

On 2/16/2024 at 12:42 PM, dualcam said:

Happy to swap adapters with you if you like, though would really be surprised if this is the adapter

Just received new paddles (it helps that there is an Amazon Fullfillment Center 30 minutes away) and there is absolutely no jitter using the 2600-daptor PDL. Rock solid like the other pair before the trouble began. Hopefully these will last longer than 3 weeks.

[Sean_1970]

I went ahead an pre-ordered the standalone CX30+ - can’t hurt to have a spare set.

 

After playing emulated arcade games that were made for trackballs and paddles using a d-pad to make some YouTube videos, I have to say I’d rather play Super Breakout with twitchy paddles rather than the frustration of janky controls using a modern joypad.

Edited February 20 by Sean_1970

[Gabe]

I got the paddles with the four game paddle pack, and they're fantastic. Certainly better than the paddles that came with my Flashback 12, which are quite a bit harder to turn. I've been playing Breakout and Kaboom, and though the paddles themselves are great, the 2600+ still needs some improvement with the paddle games, as the movement isn't as smooth as it was on the original VCS/2600. I tried the paddles that came with my FB12, and the movement is the same, so it's the system, not the paddles. It's not so bad that they aren't enjoyable to play, but it needs to be better, and I hope they do make it better with future firmware updates.

 

For reference, I tried the paddles with Super Breakout on my Flashback 2, which doesn't use emulation and which has two hidden paddle games (the other is Warlords). Though they seem to be overly sensitive with the FB2, they're still smooth, like on the original system.

[Pac-Man Senior]

I'd like to share the following experience. Last saturday I bought an incredible good old multi function board on a retro flea market. You can see it on the photo. My version is from Micro-Händler. On my old 4 switch woody the paddle behaviour is absolutely excellent. No jitter, smooth movement. The knobs are small but with a really good feeling. Not too loose, not too stiff. So I was curious about the behaviour on my 2600+ with the experimental firmware. It was a desaster. In Super Breakout the paddles on the screen didn't reach more than 50% of the width. Absolutely not usable on the 2600+. But I'm lucky to have such a great controller and paddle for my original hardware.

 

[Glokenpop]

On 12/31/2023 at 6:30 PM, Glokenpop said:

Thanks for doing that. The 2600+ looks worse to me but I wasn't aware the original did it as well.

 

On 1/4/2024 at 8:45 AM, chad5200 said:

Here is a quick video showing the difference between the classic 2600 and the new 2600+ in regards to paddle resolution in the game Super Breakout.

 

Same game, same TV, and same paddles (the excellent brand new CX30+) used on both systems in this comparison.  I have a line near the bottom to help show the differences.

 

 

 

Has there been any movement in fixing this issue? I can't find any mention of it getting fixed.

[radiohead]

On 2/15/2024 at 4:54 PM, radiohead said:

Here's what I'm experiencing. Paddle/Player1 is smooth, Paddle/Player2 looks shaky. When moving fast its relatively ok, when moving slower, Paddle 2 is jittery/shaky. Using new Atari 4-1 Pack Paddles 3 weeks old using 2600-daptor PDL with Stella 6.7 (PC and Raspberry Pi.)  Maybe I'm being picky, but I've already sunk $90 in the paddles ($30 for the 2600-daptor, $20 for used paddles which had terrible jitter even with cleaning, and these $40 4-1 Pack paddles). I would expect both new controllers would feel and operate the same.

 

 

On 2/19/2024 at 10:16 PM, radiohead said:

Just received new paddles (it helps that there is an Amazon Fullfillment Center 30 minutes away) and there is absolutely no jitter using the 2600-daptor PDL. Rock solid like the other pair before the trouble began. Hopefully these will last longer than 3 weeks.

So here we are a few weeks later and I have the EXACT same problem as before as I had with my a previous set of new CX30+... a shaky, jitter on one of the paddles. I would say the paddles have less than 2 hours of actual use. They are stored inside an storage box with a lid with my other game controllers, so no dust and they're not being knocked about or dropped.

 

When plugging in with the 5 pins on top, the problem paddle is the right controller - which like the last pair of controllers, felt just slightly looser than the more stiff left controller. Maybe it's a production issue with the stock that Amazon sells? 

 

I sprayed Deoxit Contact Cleaner on the metal stem and worked it in since the potentiometer inside seems completely encased in plastic. Well, it made the jitter go away, but only temporarily. The jitter is back and the contact cleaner now has made the spin far more slippery.

 

Anybody else experience jittery-ness in a new set of CX30+... bought from Amazon... on the east coast of the U.S.? Could it be Stella or the 2600-datop? I have no real Atari hardware to test it out on.

 

I'm about ready to give up on all this. Ugh! 

 

[hizzy]

From all accounts, the new paddles are a revelation when used an original Atari. Has anyone here picked them up to play on an original system?

[radiohead]

On 3/8/2024 at 9:01 PM, radiohead said:

 

So here we are a few weeks later and I have the EXACT same problem as before as I had with my a previous set of new CX30+... a shaky, jitter on one of the paddles. I would say the paddles have less than 2 hours of actual use. They are stored inside an storage box with a lid with my other game controllers, so no dust and they're not being knocked about or dropped.

 

When plugging in with the 5 pins on top, the problem paddle is the right controller - which like the last pair of controllers, felt just slightly looser than the more stiff left controller. Maybe it's a production issue with the stock that Amazon sells? 

 

I sprayed Deoxit Contact Cleaner on the metal stem and worked it in since the potentiometer inside seems completely encased in plastic. Well, it made the jitter go away, but only temporarily. The jitter is back and the contact cleaner now has made the spin far more slippery.

 

Anybody else experience jittery-ness in a new set of CX30+... bought from Amazon... on the east coast of the U.S.? Could it be Stella or the 2600-datop? I have no real Atari hardware to test it out on.

 

I'm about ready to give up on all this. Ugh! 

 

So tinkering with my used OG paddles over the weekend, taking apart the potentiometers and giving them a thorough cleaning, as well as inside the pinholes of the plug, I get no jitter using them on the 2600-daptor on Stella (PC and Retopie). I played them for nearly 6 hours in the last 3 days - longer than using either the 2 new CX-30+ Atari Paddles - and things are good at the moment.

 

So the 2600-daptor & Stella seem to work as advertised. I just had problems with the new paddles. As unlikely as it seems, I think maybe it was a production batch issue because it was only a few days/hours with the 2 sets of new paddles, and then jitter crept in. I'd expect that with used 40-year-old paddles, but not new 3-week-old paddles. Again, I have no real hardware to check compatibility, so back to Amazon they go again.

 

On 2/16/2024 at 12:42 PM, dualcam said:

 

Thanks for the vid.  Not as obvious as in the other posted vid, but do see some shakiness.  I don't think it is the adapter, but the 2 paddles are on 2 separate inputs, so would be possible for there to be an adapter problem that only affects one paddle. 

 

A vid on what to expect (using AtGames Flashback 8 paddles) -

http://2600-daptor.com/VID20240216092020.mp4

The server that 2600-daptor is hosted on is throttled, so down-load and watch off your device to avoid video buffering.

 

Happy to swap adapters with you if you like, though would really be surprised if this is the adapter.

 

EDIT: Just to add, this is Stella 6.7.1 and Win 11 x64.

 

Tom

http://2600-daptor.com/

Big thanks to dualcam for all his assistance! I think I'll wait for REV 2 before I acquire any new Atari hardware.  

 

 

[VerminousCoot]

On 3/11/2024 at 10:35 AM, hizzy said:

From all accounts, the new paddles are a revelation when used an original Atari. Has anyone here picked them up to play on an original system?

I tried some with an original 7800. Jittery as all get out.