Donkey Kong Junior - deep dive testing

[chad5200]

I have three different Donkey Kong Junior cartridges.

 

#1 is the Atari release with the red label.  This one works great in the original Atari 2600, the Flashback 2 (with cart mod), the Retron 77 (with Stella 6.6), and the new Atari 2600+.

#2 is the Coleco release with the white shell.  This one works great in the original Atari 2600, the Flashback 2 (with cart mod), the Retron 77 (with Stella 6.6), and the new Atari 2600+.

#3 is another Coleco release with the white shell.  This one works great in the original Atari 2600 and the Flashback 2 (with cart mod).  However, it does NOT work on the Retron 77 (with Stella 6.6), and the new Atari 2600+.

 

The question is... what is going one with #3?  Several other people have reported that their white shell Coleco Donkey Kong Junior cartridge also does not work on the 2600+.  Are there two versions?

 

More data:

 

When loading #3 on the 2600+, the game does NOT say "Loading Game Failed", instead it just shows a black screen.  Almost as if the game did load but is not being emulated properly by Stella.

When loading #3 on the Retron 77 (with Stella 6.6), the game shows only a black screen (same as on the 2600+), but the emulator is responsive to pressing the Skill Player 1 and Skill Player 2 buttons (it shows the pop-up at the bottom of the screen) along with also responding to the Save and Load buttons (again, showing the pop-up at the bottom of the screen).  Again, almost as if the Stella emulator is running but not actually emulating the game properly.

 

If anyone has any ideas how to "see" what #3 is doing when it is plugged into the Retron 77 or 2600+, I am more than willing to try them.

 

[scifidude79]

Is there any difference you can see between your two white shelled Coleco cartridges? I ask because I also have a white shelled Coleco cartridge and it works with both the Retron 77 and the Atari 2600+. But, I've seen others report that theirs don't work so I'm wondering if there's a visible difference between the two.

[chad5200]

1 hour ago, scifidude79 said:

Is there any difference you can see between your two white shelled Coleco cartridges?

The shell and label of #2 and #3 look identical.  However, the circuit board looks very different from what I can see without opening the carts.

 

Check it out...

 

#2:

 

 

#3:

[tradyblix]

1 hour ago, chad5200 said:

The shell and label of #2 and #3 look identical.  However, the circuit board looks very different from what I can see without opening the carts.

 

Check it out...

 

#2:

 

 

#3:

It's wild. that one is bad looks like in much better condition but the one in worse condition works LOL

[scifidude79]

Hm, that's interesting. Just from those photos, it looks like they used different boards. I looked at the exposed part of the board on mine and it definitely looks like the top example.

[chad5200]

1 hour ago, scifidude79 said:

Hm, that's interesting. Just from those photos, it looks like they used different boards. I looked at the exposed part of the board on mine and it definitely looks like the top example.

So your GOOD one matches my GOOD one.

 

Anyone have a BAD one they can match to my pictures above?

 

[KainXavier]

3 hours ago, chad5200 said:

So your GOOD one matches my GOOD one.

 

Anyone have a BAD one they can match to my pictures above?

 

So my copy looks like your good one, but I did discover something interesting.  "Rev C" is printed on the back of the board.  I wonder if there's a different revision number on your third copy.

 

 

It's kind of difficult to see without opening up the case and even more difficult to take a picture of. 😛

[Thomas Jentzsch]

10 hours ago, chad5200 said:

If anyone has any ideas how to "see" what #3 is doing when it is plugged into the Retron 77 or 2600+, I am more than willing to try them.

Can you post the dump of #3 the R77 created? The latest dump should be on the SD-Card.

[scifidude79]

6 hours ago, chad5200 said:

So your GOOD one matches my GOOD one.

Yeah, so it might be that version that works with the 2600+. It will be interesting to see if anyone else has one like the one you have that doesn't work. If they do, then presumably theirs won't work either. This will make it a pain for anyone trying to buy a cartridge when a lot of people posting images online don't take pics of the board contacts. And, those that do usually don't show that much detail. So, you'd have to actually have it in hand to look at the contacts to know which one it is.

[chad5200]

5 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Can you post the dump of #3 the R77 created? The latest dump should be on the SD-Card.

Yes.  But where would I find the dump on the SD card?  I am looking but cant seem to find the file on there.  What is it called?  What directory would it be in?

[Lord Thag]

I was just wondering about this myself. I'll have to go home and check, but I suspect chad5200 is onto something here. I have a couple of Coleco carts that also just don't work on the 2600+, and they are titles others have said do work. I'll check when I get home. I suspect this 'rev c' board might be the common denominator.

[Trebor]

19 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Can you post the dump of #3 the R77 created? The latest dump should be on the SD-Card.

Definitely interested in this information as well, and even more so would be @Rom Hunter.   

 

The Coleco dump that is out there [Donkey Kong Junior (1983) (Coleco - Woodside Design Associates, Harley H. Puthuff Jr.) (2653) ~).bin] contains the following:

 

CRC32: 9EF649E5
SHA1: 98f98ac0728c68de66afda6500cafbdffe8ab50a
MD5: c8fa5d69d9e555eb16068ef87b1c9c45

 

Curious what the data is on "#3" that is not playing nice with Retron or 2600+.  

14 hours ago, Lord Thag said:

I was just wondering about this myself. I'll have to go home and check, but I suspect chad5200 is onto something here. I have a couple of Coleco carts that also just don't work on the 2600+, and they are titles others have said do work. I'll check when I get home. I suspect this 'rev c' board might be the common denominator.

It would be awesome if you could check those other Coleco carts as well.  The aforementioned data from them would be great to have too!

 

Especially considering what, if any, difference there is from the data contained on those PCBs.

[chad5200]

45 minutes ago, Trebor said:

Definitely interested in this information as well, and even more so would be @Rom Hunter.   

I would love to dump the ROMs on the Retron 77 (with Stella 6.6) if someone could tell me how to.  Thomas Jentzsch said it should be on the SD card but I couldn't find anything.  Let me know exactly where to look on the SD card and I will gladly share them.

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

1 hour ago, chad5200 said:

I would love to dump the ROMs on the Retron 77 (with Stella 6.6) if someone could tell me how to.  Thomas Jentzsch said it should be on the SD card but I couldn't find anything.  Let me know exactly where to look on the SD card and I will gladly share them.

 

The dump should be in the root directory of the SD-card and named rom_dump.bin.

[chad5200]

6 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

The dump should be in the root directory of the SD-card and named rom_dump.bin.

No luck.

 

For a test, put in a known good game (Berzerk) and here is the root directory of my SD card:

 

 

Is there more to it?  Do I have to set something up in the config?

 

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

28 minutes ago, chad5200 said:

Is there more to it?  Do I have to set something up in the config?

I tend to forget these things. @DirtyHairy can you help?

[chad5200]

6 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

I tend to forget these things. @DirtyHairy can you help?

I figured it out.  I'll have the results soon.

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Weird, my is named rom_dump.bin. Guess we will soon find our more.  

[chad5200]

Attached are two ROM dumps.

 

#2 (Coleco white shell, working everywhere) is named DKJr-Coleco-good-rom-c8fa5d69d9e555eb16068ef87b1c9c45.bin

#3 (Coleco white shell, not working in Retron 77 or 2600+) is named DKjr-Coleco-bad-rom-e3aac8df8e48959ffe2ac6f24f44d673.bin

 

It appears that #2 is 8K and #3 is only 4K (which is identical to the first 4K of #2)

 

Reminder, #3 works great on a real 2600 so this is not a broken cartridge.

 

DKjr-Coleco-ROM-comparison.zip

[Thomas Jentzsch]

2 hours ago, chad5200 said:

Attached are two ROM dumps.

 

#2 (Coleco white shell, working everywhere) is named DKJr-Coleco-good-rom-c8fa5d69d9e555eb16068ef87b1c9c45.bin

#3 (Coleco white shell, not working in Retron 77 or 2600+) is named DKjr-Coleco-bad-rom-e3aac8df8e48959ffe2ac6f24f44d673.bin

 

It appears that #2 is 8K and #3 is only 4K (which is identical to the first 4K of #2)

 

Reminder, #3 works great on a real 2600 so this is not a broken cartridge.

 

DKjr-Coleco-ROM-comparison.zip 7.53 kB · 2 downloads

Thanks. Now I really wonder, why the dumper does not detect #3 as 8K ROM. Maybe it is internally a 16K ROM with banks doubled? That's what made the dumper fail at RS Boxing.

 

@Ben from Plaion That's definitely another test case for you or your developers.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Thomas Jentzsch

[Lord Thag]

On 12/5/2023 at 9:09 PM, Trebor said:

It would be awesome if you could check those other Coleco carts as well.  The aforementioned data from them would be great to have too!

 

Especially considering what, if any, difference there is from the data contained on those PCBs.

Been sick this week, I will do a thorough test of all my Coleco carts this weekend and get back to everyone here.

[Lord Thag]

On 12/4/2023 at 5:40 PM, chad5200 said:

The shell and label of #2 and #3 look identical.  However, the circuit board looks very different from what I can see without opening the carts.

 

Check it out...

 

#2:

 

 

#3:

Ok, I have had some time after work to test my coleco carts. I have everything except Berenstain bears. All carts were cleaned and tested multiple times. Here are the results:

• Mr Do: Doesn't work, board style #3
• Time Pilot: Doesn't work, board style #3
• Roc n' Rope: Works, board style #2
• Donkey Kong: Works, board style #2
• Mouse Trap: Works, board style #2
• Smurf: Loads scrambled graphics and crashes, board style #3
• Frontline: Works, board style #2
• Carnival: Works, board style #2
• Venture: Works, board style #2
• DKJr: Doesn't work, board style #3
• Zaxxon: Doesn't work, board style #2 (I suspect this one is a bad cart, it's not loading on anything)

So there is absolutely something to the 'rev 3' boards not being compatible with the 2600+. I have four carts with this style of board, and none of them work. 

[chad5200]

14 minutes ago, Lord Thag said:

So there is absolutely something to the 'rev 3' boards not being compatible with the 2600+. I have four carts with this style of board, and none of them work. 

Nice work.  Yep, looks like we found the issue!

 

Now we just need them to fix it in the firmware.  Until then, all these Coleco games need an asterisk next to the "PASS" on the Game Compatibility List.

 

Hoping @Ben from Plaion sees this.

 

[DEANJIMMY]

12 hours ago, chad5200 said:

Nice work.  Yep, looks like we found the issue!

 

Now we just need them to fix it in the firmware.  Until then, all these Coleco games need an asterisk next to the "PASS" on the Game Compatibility List.

 

Hoping @Ben from Plaion sees this.

 

Yes, please fix it🤗 

I once bought Time Pilot, realized it is NTSC only, bought an NTSC Jr and modded it to play the game in PAL land with correct colors.

Now I bought the 2600+ to have a better way to play NTSC games and... it is a Coleco Rev 3 board 😉

[Lord Thag]

15 hours ago, chad5200 said:

Nice work.  Yep, looks like we found the issue!

 

Now we just need them to fix it in the firmware.  Until then, all these Coleco games need an asterisk next to the "PASS" on the Game Compatibility List.

 

Hoping @Ben from Plaion sees this.

 

Ben has reached out to me via PM. It's being worked on. Good teamwork everyone!