Call me crazy.... I think I know Atari's plan...

[PowerDubs]

When Atari announced the 'minority investment' in Playmaji in July- my first response- posted on Twitter was- "even 49% can be minority"... which I echoed here as well.

 

And the report this week showed Atari holds 53% non-diluted / 49% diluted.

 

 

So- given that- here is my next theory on their play-

 

https://x.com/PowerDubs/status/1735060378134974494?s=20

 

Could be wrong...but I don't think so.  $PONGF

[Warboss Gegguz]

Given the apparent manufacturing costs for the 2600+ and carts, I wouldn't doubt they want an actual in-house hardware firm.

I just don't sense them continuing to try to compete or even coexist in the ACTUAL console market given how niche and ultimately pretty unsuccessful the VCS is.

 

If they are actually trying to double down on the VCS and getting into cloud shit... I won't mince words, it's fucking corporate suicide. Jaguar 2.0 minus the impressive hardware. As bad of a decision as staying in the crypto market.

 

I'm not a shareholder so I have no investment if this company succeeds beyond the games they make and studios they now own, but just speaking as someone who got a degree in this shit and is part of the demo they're aiming for, I would STRONGLY advise they stop trying to do tech-bro shit. At least not until they're actually comparable in size to a real AAA studio, lol.

Just be a software company again for five fucking seconds instead of trying to hop on trends and drum up hype for gullible investors. You've got 2 fantastic studios and a shit ton of IPs beyond the "Classics" now. USE THEM!

Edited December 13, 2023 by Warboss Gegguz

[GraffitiTavern]

4 minutes ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

I just don't sense them continuing to try to compete or even coexist in the ACTUAL console market given how niche and ultimately pretty unsuccessful the VCS is.

Part of the issue is it was never clear what the VCS was trying to be, modern console, PC, or retro system, so how you would measure success is difficult since I'm not sure what it was trying to do. That being said, I have never met a single person IRL who has even heard of the VCS. I think there is room for a consumer-friendly competitor in the console market, but Atari is too small and has too much baggage to pull it off(at least on its own). A VCS Pro as a budget moddable gaming PC could possibly work. But I'd say most likely option is some kind of retro system.

[82-T/A]

56 minutes ago, PowerDubs said:

When Atari announced the 'minority investment' in Playmaji in July- my first response- posted on Twitter was- "even 49% can be minority"... which I echoed here as well.

 

And the report this week showed Atari holds 53% non-diluted / 49% diluted.

 

 

So- given that- here is my next theory on their play-

 

https://x.com/PowerDubs/status/1735060378134974494?s=20

 

Could be wrong...but I don't think so.  $PONGF

 

Yeah, it sounds like they'll be able to use it for hardware development, but not be required to run the company, which is not bad if they think it's already being run well.

 

 

[Warboss Gegguz]

29 minutes ago, GraffitiTavern said:

Part of the issue is it was never clear what the VCS was trying to be, modern console, PC, or retro system, so how you would measure success is difficult since I'm not sure what it was trying to do. That being said, I have never met a single person IRL who has even heard of the VCS. I think there is room for a consumer-friendly competitor in the console market, but Atari is too small and has too much baggage to pull it off(at least on its own). A VCS Pro as a budget moddable gaming PC could possibly work.

I mean, speaking as a PC gamer, this has been done before multiple times and failed. The only boon to the VCS was brand recognition and production value. But the general market wasn't interested, and the retro market was interested but had no idea what to expect. Being there and watching the whole show unfold, initial pitch for the VCS was (or at least sounded like) effectively just what the Gamestation and/or 2600+ are, but it just kept ballooning until it became effectively a slightly higher-end micro console or lower end PC.

34 minutes ago, GraffitiTavern said:

But I'd say most likely option is some kind of retro system.

Which is what the 2600+ and Gamestation are. And that has actual appeal to the casual market AND the collector market vs. the VCS which is trying to fill a void that doesn't exist. If you want a cheap way to play retro or indie games, get a switch or learn to emulate on PC. Maybe even buy one of the many compilations of Atari games that have all of the retro titles Atari is offering already.

 

Both the VCS and the Amico (blech)were geared towards a market that is already very self-sufficient. I mean, we're all retro-fans here... who here doesn't already have emulation software or old-school hardware to play games? I got "my" 2600+ for my dad because it's easier and more quaint/cute than teaching a 61 year old who can barely use facebook how to run Stella or retroarch. And I like it because of the form-factor and authenticity. I just wish the damn thing was flash-cart compatible. But it's not like I don't know how to use mame and stella on my $3000 gaming laptop + every other emulator under the sun. And if I want to play recent games, it and my switch also serve that purpose... so what reason would I EVER have to invest in a VCS? There's no market for it, and people had said that ever since they announced it was going to be more than just an "atari box".

 

I'm HOPING the investment in a tech manufacturer isn't for some new unnecessary piece of kit and is just to help reduce costs on current demands... but Atari has done dumber things in the past.

[82-T/A]

32 minutes ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

I mean, speaking as a PC gamer, this has been done before multiple times and failed. The only boon to the VCS was brand recognition and production value. But the general market wasn't interested, and the retro market was interested but had no idea what to expect. Being there and watching the whole show unfold, initial pitch for the VCS was (or at least sounded like) effectively just what the Gamestation and/or 2600+ are, but it just kept ballooning until it became effectively a slightly higher-end micro console or lower end PC.

Which is what the 2600+ and Gamestation are. And that has actual appeal to the casual market AND the collector market vs. the VCS which is trying to fill a void that doesn't exist. If you want a cheap way to play retro or indie games, get a switch or learn to emulate on PC. Maybe even buy one of the many compilations of Atari games that have all of the retro titles Atari is offering already.

 

Both the VCS and the Amico (blech)were geared towards a market that is already very self-sufficient. I mean, we're all retro-fans here... who here doesn't already have emulation software or old-school hardware to play games? I got "my" 2600+ for my dad because it's easier and more quaint/cute than teaching a 61 year old who can barely use facebook how to run Stella or retroarch. And I like it because of the form-factor and authenticity. I just wish the damn thing was flash-cart compatible. But it's not like I don't know how to use mame and stella on my $3000 gaming laptop + every other emulator under the sun. And if I want to play recent games, it and my switch also serve that purpose... so what reason would I EVER have to invest in a VCS? There's no market for it, and people had said that ever since they announced it was going to be more than just an "atari box".

 

I'm HOPING the investment in a tech manufacturer isn't for some new unnecessary piece of kit and is just to help reduce costs on current demands... but Atari has done dumber things in the past.

 

I have an absolutely sick computer... super awesome graphics card, Core i9, blah blah...

 

I use it for e-mail, and checking my stocks. I don't really do emulators anymore... but I used to do them all the time.

 

I totally love having the VCS and being able to play games like this... so I'm a little different I suppose.

[PowerDubs]

2 hours ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

Given the apparent manufacturing costs for the 2600+ and carts, I wouldn't doubt they want an actual in-house hardware firm.

I just don't sense them continuing to try to compete or even coexist in the ACTUAL console market given how niche and ultimately pretty unsuccessful the VCS is.

 

If they are actually trying to double down on the VCS and getting into cloud shit... I won't mince words, it's fucking corporate suicide.

 

 

Did you click through to read the 2 articles I linked to there?

 

Atari already owns 53/49% of Playmaji- maker of the Polymega- 'an actual console'- and has stated there will be a VCS module tie in.

 

 

Atari already acquired Wonder in 2020- at the same time Wade came on.  Cross platform technology that was building for years prior to that- and valued at that time at 60 mil.

 

https://atarivcs.medium.com/atari-and-wonder-join-forces-on-cross-platform-gaming-2c0f6867d448

 

 

 

And once you read that Atari based article- read this Polymega one from THIS Feb and see how it ties together, especially after this quote-

 

"Features like online multiplayer for every game, cloud game streaming, cross-device play, and more are all on the table now with Polymega XL whereas that would be a much more difficult task without the involvement of Cloud Services. We have various other things we are discussing with partners as well."

 

https://www.timeextension.com/news/2023/02/polymegas-next-trick-ditching-dedicated-hardware

 

 

 

If you think Atari announced spending 6 mil on Playmaji in July...and think they weren't talking to them in Feb before that..... well, those kinda things don't happen in a few days or weeks.

 

[Warboss Gegguz]

24 minutes ago, PowerDubs said:

 

 

Did you click through to read the 2 articles I linked to there?

 

Atari already owns 53/49% of Playmaji- maker of the Polymega- 'an actual console'- and has stated there will be a VCS module tie in.

 

 

Atari already acquired Wonder in 2020- at the same time Wade came on.  Cross platform technology that was building for years prior to that- and valued at that time at 60 mil.

 

https://atarivcs.medium.com/atari-and-wonder-join-forces-on-cross-platform-gaming-2c0f6867d448

 

 

 

And once you read that Atari based article- read this Polymega one from THIS Feb and see how it ties together, especially after this quote-

 

"Features like online multiplayer for every game, cloud game streaming, cross-device play, and more are all on the table now with Polymega XL whereas that would be a much more difficult task without the involvement of Cloud Services. We have various other things we are discussing with partners as well."

 

https://www.timeextension.com/news/2023/02/polymegas-next-trick-ditching-dedicated-hardware

 

 

 

If you think Atari announced spending 6 mil on Playmaji in July...and think they weren't talking to them in Feb before that..... well, those kinda things don't happen in a few days or weeks.

 

My opinion hasn't changed, I'm just now dispointed.

[82-T/A]

25 minutes ago, PowerDubs said:

Did you click through to read the 2 articles I linked to there?

 

Atari already owns 53/49% of Playmaji- maker of the Polymega- 'an actual console'- and has stated there will be a VCS module tie in.

 

 

SORRY! I somehow totally missed this.

 

This is awesome news (in my opinion). As I've been bitching about in a few threads, if Atari can expand the reach of the VCS OS... it can not only extend the life of the service, but keep it growing well into the future. It will take a lot of effort, but this is something that ABSOLUTELY can and will grow if Atari is willing to put the effort into it. I think to Warboss Gegguz's point though... they'll have to do it with some fiscal conservatism to ensure that they're putting in as much effort needed to keep the ball rolling, but not putting too much good money after bad (as in, overspending on things that aren't going to provide real returns).

 

I think the Atari OS, and the path of the VCS (in future hardware, etc.) is a positive growth area... just needs to be done diligently.

[rocketfan]

50 minutes ago, 82-T/A said:

I use it for e-mail, and checking my stocks. I don't really do emulators anymore... but I used to do them all the time.

Many people who might be interested in retro gaming are not necessarily also people who want to fuss with emulation, roms, scraping art, finicky firmware updates, or sit at their PC to play a video game.

 

Just deleted my whole paragraph about why retro can sell and why there is a market.  Anyway - think of Evercade and maybe Analogue Pocket.  People can do it pretty well and make money - or obviously it can go horribly wrong (Amico). 

 

I sort of hope Atari has some decent steady revenue from licensing and so on, and can use that to feed into greater ambitions.  At least the Polymega stuff looked like quality, but the price point on those products makes me nervous for them.

[82-T/A]

2 minutes ago, rocketfan said:

Many people who might be interested in retro gaming are not necessarily also people who want to fuss with emulation, roms, scraping art, finicky firmware updates, or sit at their PC to play a video game.

 

Just deleted my whole paragraph about why retro can sell and why there is a market.  Anyway - think of Evercade and maybe Analogue Pocket.  People can do it pretty well and make money - or obviously it can go horribly wrong (Amico). 

 

I sort of hope Atari has some decent steady revenue from licensing and so on, and can use that to feed into greater ambitions.  At least the Polymega stuff looked like quality, but the price point on those products makes me nervous for them.

 

I agree... I usually spend money in ways I absolutely shouldn't. I don't think twice buying some stupid thing any day of the week. But the price point for the polymega did give me pause, and for that, I haven't actually bought one yet. But I do occasionally go to the site and look...

[Giles N]

9 hours ago, PowerDubs said:

11 hours ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

Given the apparent manufacturing costs for the 2600+ and carts, I wouldn't doubt they want an actual in-house hardware firm.

I just don't sense them continuing to try to compete or even coexist in the ACTUAL console market given how niche and ultimately pretty unsuccessful the VCS is.

 

If they are actually trying to double down on the VCS and getting into cloud shit... I won't mince words, it's fucking corporate suicide

Expand  

 

Cross platform technology that was building for years prior to that- and valued at that time at 60 mil.

 

https://atarivcs.medium.com/atari-and-wonder-join-forces-on-cross-platform-gaming-2c0f6867d448

 

And once you read that Atari based article- read this Polymega one from THIS Feb and see how it ties together, especially after this quote-

 

"Features like online multiplayer for every game, cloud game streaming, cross-device play, and more are all on the table now with Polymega XL whereas that would be a much more difficult task without the involvement of Cloud Services. We have various other things we are discussing with partners as well."

 

https://www.timeextension.com/news/2023/02/polymegas-next-trick-ditching-dedicated-hardware

So… someone must still own game-title IPs - either gamers must still collect their own titles and can, well, access them (?) through a cloud, or some company must become like Antstream 2.

 

Whatever - if they want to sell game-streaming services it should become much better than what I experience with Antstream which have so big lag-problems I almost never play it/use it anymore.

 

If the plan here is something else, it feels vague to me what it’ll look like practically.

 

What will the gamer get? 

[MrTrust]

10 hours ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

Both the VCS and the Amico (blech)were geared towards a market that is already very self-sufficient. I mean, we're all retro-fans here...

 

I don't have a $3,000 laptop.  I would never buy a $3,000 laptop.  If you gave me $3,000, there are a thousand other things I would do with it before buying a laptop, up to and including just giving the money away.  That's not because I'm such a charitable guy; I just have that little use for a high-end gaming PC.

 

We're at the point where gaming has become pretty well Netflix-ified.  For the minimal interest I have in post-2016 games, cloud is just fine.  I do, however, want to play some games natively that you can't run on an emulator-in-a-box machine, and I can't play S.T.A.L.K.E.R. or Police Quest on Switch.

 

So get a cheap PC.  Right; that's what I did.  That's why I got the VCS.  I didn't pay original list price for it, and I do think $400 was way too high, but after the drop?  Yes, you could buy more PC for your money elsewhere, but this is a nice package for the kind of gamer I am, and the Atari OS works well as a general entertainment box.  Simple interface, gets you where you want to go quickly.  I can give it to the wife to stream video.  I can hand the controller to the kids and they can play games.  No fuss (except for when their store doesn't work).

 

As far as the Atari store goes, it's been a mixed bag, but it has been a platform for several good games that were designed for this system.  The hardware as a buy-in has made a difference there.  I have something like 35 games for the system.  Many of them I would never have bought if it were just to to me to pick them up on Steam.

 

10 hours ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

... so what reason would I EVER have to invest in a VCS?

 

You wouldn't, but everyone's not at the same place in their life.  Sure, I could buy a PS5 or whatever the Xbox equivalent of that is, or whatever kind of PC the people who don't approve of the VCS would endorse.  I just cannot justify spending that much money on a toy, now or likely at any point in the future of my life.  And $60 for a new game, are you fuggin' kidding me?  Even if I were wealthy, I couldn't do that.  I'm to old for that to make sense.  You probably aren't yet, but it won't stay that way forever, I assure you.

 

10 hours ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

There's no market for it, and people had said that ever since they announced it was going to be more than just an "atari box".

 

And 25 years ago, "everybody knew" that the console market couldn't support more than two machines at a time, and Microsoft was either going to crash and burn, or Nintendo would finally be pushed out of the hardware game because of their wimpy consoles, and because Mario didn't say the F-word.  

 

The market is there, it's just a question if whether or not Atari can actually serve it well enough.  They would have to undercut competition on price, and they would have to market it much better than they did.  This is a modern appliance.  This is the family's all-in-one entertainment box.   It's attractive.  It's simple.  It's versatile.  It's got something for everybody in the house.  Even if this was the only device you had in your house, you'd be all set.  They would need to level up on their store.  VCS has some good stuff on it, but the standout indie/retro games are not: the Owlboys, the Rain Worlds, the Sonic Manias, so on so forth. 

 

Whether or not they have the money or clout to ever pull something like that off, who knows?  Probably not, but in 1995, The PlayStation looked like any one of a hundred failed video games machines from a non-gaming company, from CD-I all the way back to Odyssey 2.  These things are possible; it just takes one entrant to finally push through

[Flojomojo]

What is Polymega XL? Game streaming like PlayStation Now, GeForce Now, Game Pass cloud streaming, and Antstream, but with fewer games? I’m not seeing the appeal. 

[Warboss Gegguz]

4 hours ago, MrTrust said:

 

I don't have a $3,000 laptop.  I would never buy a $3,000 laptop.  If you gave me $3,000, there are a thousand other things I would do with it before buying a laptop, up to and including just giving the money away.  That's not because I'm such a charitable guy; I just have that little use for a high-end gaming PC.

 

We're at the point where gaming has become pretty well Netflix-ified.  For the minimal interest I have in post-2016 games, cloud is just fine.  I do, however, want to play some games natively that you can't run on an emulator-in-a-box machine, and I can't play S.T.A.L.K.E.R. or Police Quest on Switch.

 

So get a cheap PC.  Right; that's what I did.  That's why I got the VCS.  I didn't pay original list price for it, and I do think $400 was way too high, but after the drop?  Yes, you could buy more PC for your money elsewhere, but this is a nice package for the kind of gamer I am, and the Atari OS works well as a general entertainment box.  Simple interface, gets you where you want to go quickly.  I can give it to the wife to stream video.  I can hand the controller to the kids and they can play games.  No fuss (except for when their store doesn't work).

 

As far as the Atari store goes, it's been a mixed bag, but it has been a platform for several good games that were designed for this system.  The hardware as a buy-in has made a difference there.  I have something like 35 games for the system.  Many of them I would never have bought if it were just to to me to pick them up on Steam.

 

You wouldn't, but everyone's not at the same place in their life.  Sure, I could buy a PS5 or whatever the Xbox equivalent of that is, or whatever kind of PC the people who don't approve of the VCS would endorse.  I just cannot justify spending that much money on a toy, now or likely at any point in the future of my life.  And $60 for a new game, are you fuggin' kidding me?  Even if I were wealthy, I couldn't do that.  I'm to old for that to make sense.  You probably aren't yet, but it won't stay that way forever, I assure you.

 

And 25 years ago, "everybody knew" that the console market couldn't support more than two machines at a time, and Microsoft was either going to crash and burn, or Nintendo would finally be pushed out of the hardware game because of their wimpy consoles, and because Mario didn't say the F-word.  

I'll respond to an essay with an essay I guess:

What you're describing is a void that's already filled by the console market. In fact, even lower end tech satisfies that.

You can run most pre-6th gen games and 2D indie games on a potato. My 2016 phone can play everything up to PSX games. You don't NEED a $3000 computer.

 

This is what I mean when I say there's no market. You don't understand that I'm not saying you NEED an i9 and 4090 with 32GB of RAM to play video games, but the VCS' library is mostly the kind of games that could run on a $200 laptop or Switch. Except you can do more on those than you could on a VCS. And by not committing fully to the VCS (reasonably, given they want to actually make money) Atari themselves basically neutered the thing. 

When given the option of buying a new console or using the platforms already available to me that I most likely own, what consumer would opt to spend an additional $200+ just for a different platform to play the exact same games on? 

 

I'm not being "PC Master Race!" or whatever, I fuckin hate those people. I only got into PC gaming because I couldn't lug a console around in college. I'm saying that even if you're a casual consumer there's basically no reason to get it, price-wise or functionally. Are there some people here who like it? Yes, I would imagine there are people on an Atari-owned retro forum that like it. But if you want to make money or at least a sustainable platform you kind of need a bigger audience than that.

 

And the playstationn, microsoft, and nintendo comparisons are Mr. Fantastic levels of stretch.

Sony was an established computer company, the product itself was the result of a failed collaboration with the then Market leader, it undercut all of its competition, and had (among many others) Namco backing them at launch and throughout their lifespan.

The Xbox could've crashed and burned and Microsoft would've felt nothing from it because they're literally the largest tech corporation on the planet. They just had a graphics architecture to show off and backed it with exclusives. And ironically, you say this all while the Xbox brand is at its lowest point in years.

The Wii U failed do to marketing and lacking the general appeal of the Wii along side nintendo having lost much of the "core gamer" audience with the Wii's pivot to casual gamers, not tonally, but in terms of actual games. Also shit was extremely expensive and hell to develop for. And as if to go with my point in other threads, Nintendo pivoting to mobile and focusing on the 3DS rather than the Wii U while the switch was in development is what saved them from dying. The Switch wasn't a gamble, it was a system that played entirely to nintendo's strengths (ie Handhelds and broad appeal) while they worked on the software end to win back "gamers" and devs both indie and AAA. And it worked. 

I'm not here spouting speculative tunnel-vison marketing bullshit. I'm saying in terms of BOTH practicality and hardware, the VCS is borderline useless to 90% of consumers.

 

The VCS was a kickstarter project that grew a lot bigger than it realistically had the resources to. I'm not being mean, I'm just being honest. Cold, sure, but honest.

And the best part of all of this is that I actually like Atari and want them to succeed... which is WHY I want them to refocus on their strengths rather than try to bail water out of a sinking ship.

 

I knew saying the VCS was bad would be an uphill battle on an atari-centered forum, but I'm still gonna at least TRY to make a rational argument as to why the company should just bow out of hardware at the very least until they're stronger than they are currently. It's a device for an audience that exists, but is already satisfied by other more practical offerings. Everything you described as what the VCS could do to succeed ALREADY EXISTS in other platforms at the same price. You're basically describing the Switch (lower on the hardware end, accusable, easy to develop for, great for indies, and at a cost <$300), but Atari.

 

And I agree, the Switch is a great console. It's the only current gen console I have... and I don't need another one. And ironically, not only are all the indies you listed off on it, but so are all the Recharged games, Atari 50, the Flashback collection, Tempest 4000, Akka Arrh, Mr. Run and Jump, Haunted House, Days of Doom, Kombinera, qomp, and almost all of NightDives library outside of System Shock and Blood.

 

So, with that, ignoring my computer (pretend I'm still on my windows 8 netbook or some shit), if someone can give me a practical reason for this consumer to get a VCS, I'll concede that there's a market for it that isn't currently satisfied by alternatives.

 

I say "atari should stop backing the VCS" when the reality is more that Atari should stop PRETENDING to back the VCS. They gave up on it about as fast as the public and developers did, but still pretend like it's priority #1 in marketing. And nobody buys it.

[MrTrust]

27 minutes ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

This is what I mean when I say there's no market. You don't understand that I'm not saying you NEED an i9 and 4090 with 32GB of RAM to play video games, but the VCS' library is mostly the kind of games that could run on a $200 laptop or Switch. Except you can do more on those than you could on a VCS.

 

Yes, except A) not all of them do, and B) they can't do the things that I want to do with them.  Switch cannot play my old PC game collection.  A $200 laptop could, but there would be some stuff it would struggle with more than the VCS, and it wouldn't have the good retro controller I want or have the convenient features I mentioned, but since I didn't pay more than $200 for either of my VCS, that's a moot point anyway.  I did pay less than people happily dish out for an SNES mini that has like 35 games on it, though, and I don't see everyone bitching about people doing that.

 

27 minutes ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

I'm saying that even if you're a casual consumer there's basically no reason to get it, price-wise or functionally.

 

The reason is I wanted it.  I already explained to you why I wanted it.  Yes, I know I could have bought another device that does the same thing for marginally less money.  So?  You can literally make the exact argument about any console that comes out from now on, but consoles are still going to be made and people are still going to buy them.

 

27 minutes ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

It's a device for an audience that exists, but is already satisfied by other more practical offerings. Everything you described as what the VCS could do to succeed ALREADY EXISTS in other platforms at the same price. You're basically describing the Switch (lower on the hardware end, accusable, easy to develop for, great for indies, and at a cost <$300), but Atari.

 

Everything the Oreo cookie could do to succeed ALREADY EXISTED in 1912.  Everything a search engine like Google could do to succeed ALREADY EXISTED in 1998.  Everything Microsoft could do to succeed ALREADY EXISTED in 2001.  Everything Android could do to succeed ALREADY EXISTED in 2008.

Markets expand.  New players come in.  Old leaders fade out.  Nothing like that is going to happen with Atari now or in the foreseeable future, but that's not the relevant question.  What we're talking about is whether a device like the VCS could be a successful thing.  It could be; it would take a lot more that what Atari put into the VCS to pull off, but it is possible.

 

27 minutes ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

So, with that, ignoring my computer (pretend I'm still on my windows 8 netbook or some shit), if someone can give me a practical reason for this consumer to get a VCS, I'll concede that there's a market for it that isn't currently satisfied by alternatives.

 

I'm not a consumer.  I am a person.  I buy toys for myself that I want because I think that I will like them.  I don't calculate how many Per Dollar Fun Units I'm going to get out of a toy when I buy it.  I looked at the VCS, saw it was on sale, took a look at the specs, hey I can play most anything I would want to on this.  I want that spinner controller.  I like the form factor.  The aesthetics look good.  That's a pretty good price.  I'll take it.

 

Are there enough of me to sustain an expensive piece of kit like VCS?  Who knows?  20 years ago, if you'd said Marvel comic book movies were going to be the biggest mainstream scripted entertainment thing going, and be raking in billions and billions of dollars, everyone would have thought you were crazy, or that a Youtube-exclusive Karate Kid revival would be one of the most successful TV shows going, or that that there would one day be a Fallout television series, nobody would have believed any of that.  Consumer preferences change.

 

No, nothing Atari is going to put out in terms of hardware is going to sell to someone like you (except the 2600+ which, in my view, is an even worse deal than the VCS), but you are not the kind of guy who has a windows 8 netbook or some shit; you're the kind of guy that has a $3,000 laptop.  That's not necessarily the default video game buyer, and even if it is, that's not necessarily going to stay the case.

[Warboss Gegguz]

14 minutes ago, MrTrust said:

 

Yes, except A) not all of them do, and B) they can't do the things that I want to do with them.  Switch cannot play my old PC game collection.  A $200 laptop could, but there would be some stuff it would struggle with more than the VCS, and it wouldn't have the good retro controller I want or have the convenient features I mentioned, but since I didn't pay more than $200 for either of my VCS, that's a moot point anyway.

You can get a USB controller. Hyperkin's troopers are already USB compatible.

16 minutes ago, MrTrust said:

I did pay less than people happily dish out for an SNES mini that has like 35 games on it, though, and I don't see everyone bitching about people doing that.

You haven't seen me then, since I regularly dunk on the the SNES/NES mini for being shitty emulation boxes sold on lies to gullible "piracy BAD" idiots and braindead collectors... but I'm also someone who knows how to emulate games AND knows that the SNES and NES mini emulate things poorly (despite marketing making it out like it was real hardware). I've even openly brought up how much I think it sucks in the 2600+ forums (an atari console I DO actually own). So you're barking up the wrong tree, bro.

18 minutes ago, MrTrust said:

The reason is I wanted it.  I already explained to you why I wanted it.  Yes, I know I could have bought another device that does the same thing for marginally less money.  So?  You can literally make the exact argument about any console that comes out from now on, but consoles are still going to be made and people are still going to buy them.

As a PC user, I can tell you consoles have a place because they're way more user-friendly and generally cheaper, albeit at the cost of "performance" and visuals. But I'm a bad PC gamer because I'm not a graphics whore, I just like emulation, mods, and don't wanna have to buy a new piece of tech anytime soon. That combined with student loans is literally the only reason I have this. I was still using my 360 slim up to 2 years ago, and still use my modded 3DS as my go-to handheld.

I think you misunderstand me, I'm not hating on consoles, I'm criticizing the VCS specifically. 

Some consoles fill that void more than others, which is why Xbox would basically be dead were it not easier to get (physically/logistically) a Series S than a PS5, but VCS isn't any easier or cheaper than a switch. And clearly you have a computer or phone if you're here. And that's ignoring the plethora of android consoles/handhelds that come out on like a weekly basis for cheaper. So at best, the VCS is in a sector of the market that's flooded in terms of price and performance, and at worst it's made for a demo that doesn't really exist.

 

28 minutes ago, MrTrust said:

Everything the Oreo cookie could do to succeed ALREADY EXISTED in 1912.  Everything a search engine like Google could do to succeed ALREADY EXISTED in 1998.  Everything Microsoft could do to succeed ALREADY EXISTED in 2001.  Everything Android could do to succeed ALREADY EXISTED in 2008.

What you're implying by that is very debatable and weird. It's akin to saying "Chocolate chip cookies existed before Chips Ahoy!". Like... yes? You're describing successes related to marketing and innovation, not just showing up. WHAT IS THE INNOVATION of the the VCS?  We know the marketing is misguided since most people have no idea it exists, but why should they need to know other than the brand attached? What does it DO for me, developers, or publishers?  Look nice? Yeah. the Aesthetics are the one thing I have to praise it for... and?

Look at the Steam Deck for example. Low power linux PCs and handheld PCs existed before it (The VCS is one ironically, lol) but it had backing and manufacturing from a strong commercial entity, a massive library of software, undercut competing devices MASSIVELY (decent PC handhelds prior were like $600+), and met the demand for a device like the switch that wasn't 7 years out of date. It didn't just get poofed onto the market and have everyone go "Oh boy a valve console!" and buy it on that alone. You can't lean exclusively on marketing or exclusively on practicality... but the VCS has nothing major in either direction.

It has atari's brand recognition, but fuck if they market the thing. And in terms of internals it's nothing new or unique either... and so outside of hardcore atari fan nobody even knows about it let alone gives a shit.

 

34 minutes ago, MrTrust said:

Markets expand.  New players come in.  Old leaders fade out.  Nothing like that is going to happen with Atari now or in the foreseeable future, but that's not the relevant question.  What we're talking about is whether a device like the VCS could be a successful thing.  It could be; it would take a lot more that what Atari put into the VCS to pull off, but it is possible.

Yes, it could be... because THEY ALREADY EXIST AND ARE SUCCESSFUL. The VCS is just so late to the game, restricted, and underwhelming that outside of early adopters/backers it failed. They would have unironically been better putting out an android device than what they actually put out, because then at least it would have software or could be turned into an emulation box. And it would still have Stella.

So unless they have some god-tier hardware or SOMETHING to offer beyond the VCS looking nice and having a cool controller, they're in a niche that's already filled.

 

47 minutes ago, MrTrust said:

I'm not a consumer.  I am a person.  I buy toys for myself that I want because I think that I will like them. 

You just literally described a consumer in economics. It's well known that people aren't rational consumers 24/7. That's literally why advertisements and marketing exist in a monopolistically competitive market: product differentiation that may or may not be real. Not to say products aren't ever ACTUALLY different.

The XBSX and PS5 are both VERY different pieces of hardware, but since they're functionally the same companies have to use marketing and advertisement to distinguish themselves and draw a group of consumers. This INCLUDES aesthetics and nuances.

 

55 minutes ago, MrTrust said:

I don't calculate how many Per Dollar Fun Units I'm going to get out of a toy when I buy it.  I looked at the VCS, saw it was on sale, took a look at the specs, hey I can play most anything I would want to on this.  I want that spinner controller.  I like the form factor.  The aesthetics look good.  That's a pretty good price.  I'll take it.

>I don't calculate how many Per Dollar Fun Units I'm going to get out of a toy when I buy it."

1 sentence later

>I can play most anything I would want to on this

>That's a pretty good price.

🤔

 

I love when people hear me talk econ and then shit on what they think economics and marketing is before falling exactly in line with what economics ACTUALLY is. Literally everything you just listed are things taken into account when assessing marketing and consumer interest. And it's cool that it all fit for you.

It didn't for most people, assuming they had even heard of it.

Consumers aren't rational. They are in aggregate, and we pretend they are in theoretical discussions, but we know there are outliers and external factors. But what you're talking about aren't even those. Aesthetics, form-factor, input method, etc are all meticulously taken into account when designing a product. And I would say those are the biggest successes of the VCS. It's functionality and practicality that are the issues.

 

Moreover, Bro, I'm not saying you can't PERSONALLY like it, I'm talking about an entire market though. Not just one dude.

There are a ton of Wii U owners who LOVE the thing. Didn't stop it from being Nintendo's worst selling console since the Virtual Boy and almost killing the company. Remove emotion from this. Think practically. That's what you have to do first and foremost when designing games and tech. Just because we like a thing and/or don't regret our purchase doesn't mean it's successful or worthwhile for the company that made it.

 

1 hour ago, MrTrust said:

Are there enough of me to sustain an expensive piece of kit like VCS? 

Demonstrably no, which is why they haven't released anything meaningful for it in years. The most you get from atari is just games that are already multi-plat and linux compatible. Even the flow of retro games stopped like 2 years in.

 

1 hour ago, MrTrust said:

20 years ago, if you'd said Marvel comic book movies were going to be the biggest mainstream scripted entertainment thing going, and be raking in billions and billions of dollars, everyone would have thought you were crazy.

20 years ago Spider-Man 1 became the first movie to gross over $100,000,000 in a single weekend.

Note: I understand your point, it's just a terrible example, lol.

 

1 hour ago, MrTrust said:

that a Youtube-exclusive Karate Kid revival would be one of the most successful TV shows going, or that that there would one day be a Fallout television series, nobody would have believed any of that.  Consumer preferences change.

Those exist BECAUSE there's a market and interest in them, not in spite of there not appearing to be one. Karate kid was/is an extremely successful franchise, and Fallout hit the mainstream 15 years ago. Not to mention they're both derivatives of martial arts and westerns respectively (with a bit of Mad Max thrown in in the latter's case). The only reason people would've doubted the latter was because Fallout 1, 2, and Tactics were niche PC RPGs. But then Bethesda turned them into TES with guns and put it on consoles and it blew up... but consumer interest in Western and Post-Apocalypse media has always been a thing.

Where is the consumer interest in the VCS outside of this forum? And even broadening it to just it and similar devices, how large do you think the demo is that isn't already content with shit like the Switch or regular ass computers?

 

1 hour ago, MrTrust said:

No, nothing Atari is going to put out in terms of hardware is going to sell to someone like you (except the 2600+ which, in my view, is an even worse deal than the VCS)

Well I bought it for my dad who doesn't do emulation or PC shit. It's fun to play with an authentic controller and with the family, but when I wanna actually play atari games I just boot up stella, Atari Vault, or Atari 50. That's a device that could be great to market at casual auceinces and collectors (like the Genesis Mini and other mini retro consoles) but it needs flash-cart support.

So I'm not really part of that market either... I think it's neat and have fun with it, but it's too narrow in scope atm. Hence most of my activity here is just waiting for Firmware updates or maybe getting that prototype PCB with an SD card slot. Lol. I love Atari's GAMES.

 

1 hour ago, MrTrust said:

but you are not the kind of guy who has a windows 8 netbook or some shit;

I still have it if you want pics or something. I use it as a burner when I'm too afraid to take out the tech that's actually worth something. Only reason I was able to upgrade my PC was student loans. Other than that I used it through all high school and my first 2 semesters. Hell, half of how I got into retro PC games was because of that POS not being able to run anything else. Lol.

 

1 hour ago, MrTrust said:

you're the kind of guy that has a $3,000 laptop.  That's not necessarily the default video game buyer, and even if it is, that's not necessarily going to stay the case.

If the implication is that I'm wealthy, snobbish, a graphics whore, etc. I'm not. But even if I were still on that burner laptop, I'd stick with my switch and New 3DS over the VCS. 

All of this seems like you talking statements I make about the general market EXTREMELY personally. I'm sorry you're not the main character I'm referring to. And I wouldn't be so snarky right now if you weren't being so passive aggressive and hostile.

[zzip]

 

2 hours ago, MrTrust said:

No, nothing Atari is going to put out in terms of hardware is going to sell to someone like you (except the 2600+ which, in my view, is an even worse deal than the VCS)

Consumers are weird..  2600+ is far weaker and less capable than VCS, but it gathers more consumer interest.   I see people buying both the 2600+ and Gamestation Pro this year, and then complain that the VCS is a waste of money!  My VCS runs Steam, my entire emulation library, Windows games, Linux games, KODI,   It will even play the 2600 games the 2600+ struggles with.

 

Yeah it does seem like Atari didn't craft a good message around the VCS, it could have been the all-in-one Atari box, playing games from every Atari console/computer and arcade cabinet, and maybe it should have had cart slots for at least some of those systems, (since that's the one thing the 2600+ has that the VCS doesn't)  and/or sell loose roms in the online store.  

 

I mean I can't be the only one who hates the waste and clutter of these retro game systems that release every Christmas?   I want to play those games in on place, in my living room couch, not on a mobile device or office PC).   The VCS is the perfect device for that kind of thing, but right now you have to set that up yourself.   It would be awesome if the Atari store was like the iTunes for old video games, where they have their own and games from 3rd parties available for sale.   But I think that's where they missed,  it was more "buy this device and play whatever we decide to release in the store, or use PC mode if you're adventurous."      

 

1 hour ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

Demonstrably no, which is why they haven't released anything meaningful for it in years. The most you get from atari is just games that are already multi-plat and linux compatible. Even the flow of retro games stopped like 2 years in.

No pace of games coming to the VCS store was faster this year than the first two years.   Atari's supported the VCS better with games than I feared they would, main issue is the bugs they need to fix.

[Warboss Gegguz]

29 minutes ago, zzip said:

Consumers are weird..  2600+ is far weaker and less capable than VCS, but it gathers more consumer interest.   I see people buying both the 2600+ and Gamestation Pro this year, and then complain that the VCS is a waste of money!  My VCS runs Steam, my entire emulation library, Windows games, Linux games, KODI,   It will even play the 2600 games the 2600+ struggles with.

I mean, if it's streaming it doesn't "run" anything. I didn't get the 2600+ for myself as said. It was for my parent's who don't even know what the word "emulation" means. It was my mom's idea, and I told her not to get some AtGames crap and spring for the one that looked nostalgic and NOT hideous (eg the R77). Had I known it lacked native flash-cart support I probably would've changed, but I don't regret it. The 2600+ serves the purpose of a familial bonding sort of thing more than an actual console, lol. There's a novelty to it + it's easy enough for an AARP member to grasp.

 

Were it me and me ONLY, I would've just got hyperkin's Atari USB controllers and used my computer. Literally what I do for NES, SNES, Playstation, and Genesis/Saturn games. Use my SNPro with Mesen, my Defender with DuckStation and PCSX2, and my hori fight pad with Sega consoles... and I'm good.

And on that note, my Dad also already has a PS4... so what's the point in a VCS there? At least there's NOVELTY to be fulfilled by the 2600+ if nothing else. 

 

Ironically, by being more niche the 2600+ has more of an audience than the VCS. Because nobody is going to compare the 2600+ or Gamestation to a PS4/5 or Switch.

And may I remind you that the original pitch for the VCS was basically what the Gamestation is, but then evolved into a "real" console later, to the confusion of most onlookers (myself included). So, in other words, the market for something like that was always bigger than it was for what the VCS ended up being.

 

Also, just a side note, idk what it is but the screen flicker on the 2600+ is substantially less nauseating/painful than on my actual PC copy of Stella. Also games like the Flashback version of Asteroid's Deluxe ran perfectly on the 2600+ but are a mess on Stella so 🤷‍♂️ one of the things that pleasantly surprised me.

 

But yeah, overall I'm not one to usually buy retro consoles either. They're mainly for collectors or casual gamers can't into emulation. This was an exception because it's wasn't for me, and I'm not spending the extra cash on features I don't need just to play atari with my dad. 

And honestly releasing both the 2600+ and Gamestation in the same year was stupid to me too. Just put a fucking SD slot on the 2600+ and ditch the weird pseudo-modern one.

You guys need to understand, I think the 2600+ isn't an amazing idea either. But at least non-stans have some desire to buy it for novelty.

 

Nobody wants something they already have. That's basically the problem with the VCS in a nutshell. I tried to say that in brief, but I got so much pushback I felt the need to elaborate. Apparently the explanation is still unclear or something.

I've been avoiding making the joke about yall being on payroll or something but holy shit, what is hard to comprehend about this?

 

The only situation where I can see buying a VCS would be worthwhile is if you literally had no other options. Granted, with the supply chain BS around XBSX and PS5s that might be your case, but everyone I know who is in the demo it's aimed at has other options that do more.

And when your company just barely got back in the green less than 5 years ago, gambling in the hardware market isn't a great idea. 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Warboss Gegguz

[Trinity]

Yeah. My Atari is about to turn 43 years old on Christmas morning.

 

 Still works God bless it.

[zzip]

31 minutes ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

And on that note, my Dad also already has a PS4... so what's the point in a VCS there? At least there's NOVELTY to be fulfilled by the 2600+ if nothing else. 

I have a PS5, the VCS runs everything the PS5 can't, which is quite a lot of stuff.

 

34 minutes ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

Ironically, by being more niche the 2600+ has more of an audience than the VCS. Because nobody is going to compare the 2600+ or Gamestation to a PS4/5 or Switch.

Exactly, that's why it's so strange to me, it either has to be in one box or the other..  or people can't comprehend it.    Really the VCS should be in a box between the two..   A retrobox for people tired of buying crappy cheap retroboxes,  with some console features like online store.. but it was never trying to replace your PS5 or Switch, as many people think it was trying to do.    

 

38 minutes ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

And may I remind you that the original pitch for the VCS was basically what the Gamestation is, but then evolved into a "real" console later, to the confusion of most onlookers (myself included). So, in other words, the market for something like that was always bigger than it was for what the VCS ended up being.

I don't recall that,   as far as I remember the creator said he wanted something for the kids to run Minecraft on (instead of a laptop)

 

40 minutes ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

Also, just a side note, idk what it is but the screen flicker on the 2600+ is substantially less nauseating/painful than on my actual PC copy of Stella. Also games like the Flashback version of Asteroid's Deluxe ran perfectly on the 2600+ but are a mess on Stella so 🤷‍♂️ one of the things that pleasantly surprised me.

I haven't seen it, but they've done quite a bit of bragging about how good the 2600+ HDMI output looks, so they must have put some work in there.

 

42 minutes ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

Nobody wants something they already have. That's basically the problem with the VCS in a nutshell. I tried to say that in brief, but I got so much pushback I felt the need to elaborate. Apparently the explanation is still unclear or something.

I've been avoiding making the joke about yall being on payroll or something but holy shit, what is hard to comprehend about this?

Depends..   I've noticed people tend to buy more electronic gadgets than they need, even duplicating things.    The cool thing about the VCS it has a slim console form factor with built-in bluetooth,    That's something that most PCs don't have.   I've long wanted such a system as a living room retro/emulation box and tried to build one around a raspberry Pi, but always found the Pi's too weak and finicky to do a good job.   The VCS is more powerful and x86 compatible so it just runs everything without issue, so it was perfect for that task.   It's definitely something I didn't have.   But it seems that most people need marketing to tell them what a device is for, and Atari's marketing did them no favors here by sending a confused message.

 

 

[MrTrust]

1 hour ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

All of this seems like you talking statements I make about the general market EXTREMELY personally. I'm sorry you're not the main character I'm referring to. And I wouldn't be so snarky right now if you weren't being so passive aggressive and hostile.

 

Well, it's good of you to admit you're being a dick at least.

 

Here's the deal: you and about 80 other people on the boards ask here there and everywhere some variation of what the thing is supposed to be, who needs the thing, what's the point of the thing, who doesn't already have a different thing to do X Y or Z thing that this thing does, etc.  Okay, well, somebody who did buy it sits down and explains why they bought it, what they bought it for, what the appeal was, what the rationale was, and why they bought it even though they already have a Switch, and then the other person stick their fingers in their ears and starts yelling LALALALA YEAH BUT IT FAILED THO BRO LALALALA SWITCH LALALA SWTICH LALALA NINTENDO SWIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITCH!  Would you be annoyed by hearing the same three phrases yelled at you over and over as if you didn't already know these things, and especially after you've gone out of your way to explain that you do know them?

It seems pretty evident from what we've seen of this Polymega app thing is that they're moving to sort of Steam-itize people's retro game collections, and one component of that is the Polymega hardware that we already have seen, along with the VCS being a marginal part of that picture.  Once those things are established, once that infrastructure is in place, would there be in the future a place for a device like the VCS?  That is to say, an all-in-one video game+ box that doesn't force you to re-buy your whole damn game collection just to play it on your new devices (like the Swtich), but that is not limited to just your old pile of cartridges or the 80 thousandth reissue of Millipede (like 2600+ and every other "mini" console), and that has a little bit of the functionality of a PC or a "real" game console.  I don't know, but that's not the point.  We're speculating about things that are possible. 

 

Now, the average gamer has been getting older for the last few decades, and there's no reason to think that trend won't continue as there's a general demographic trend in that direction, and because men aren't giving the games up when they become adults like they used to.  Simultaneously, it is the case that "legacy" content is the most popular stuff in entertainment.  These are trends which do that the potential to create market conditions that are more favorable to something like the VCS, and no, it should not be assumed a priori that the incumbent leaders will automatically have that space stitched up.  Blockbuster couldn't just hop on the mail-in-DVD or streaming train and put Netflix out of business, even though they "should" have been able to.  Apple was on its ass and on the verge of bankruptcy in the 90s.  You're an Econ major; you should know your field is shit at predicting markets.

 

Yes, the VCS was an expensive failure.  That it failed does not prove the argument that the failure was inevitable from the product's inception.  I'm just talking about what the market for it would look like, and what they would have to do to address that market.  I don't know why you continue to feel compelled to yell BUT THE SWITCH at me like I don't know that the Switch exists or what it does.

 

1 hour ago, zzip said:

Consumers are weird..  2600+ is far weaker and less capable than VCS, but it gathers more consumer interest.   I see people buying both the 2600+ and Gamestation Pro this year, and then complain that the VCS is a waste of money!  My VCS runs Steam, my entire emulation library, Windows games, Linux games, KODI,   It will even play the 2600 games the 2600+ struggles with.

 

I would expect the 2600+ and Gamestation Pro to sell more than the VCS.  I literally had to stop myself from buying it the other day.  I was shopping for my wife, ended up in Kohl's, browsing around... hey, would you look at that!  I got halfway to the counter before I had to stop and say to myself "what the hell am I doing?"  I just bought a second VCS; I have no practical use for this thing whatsoever.  I'd literally be buying it just for the controllers the whole reason I bought the second all-in rather than the base VCS was the controllers, and realistically, when am I ever going to get a 4-player Warlords game in my living room, which is the possible justification for this at all.

 

But still, they almost got me, those sneaky bastards.  All that brain-hacking impulse buy store design almost got me to drop $90 on that thing despite me knowing I've got all that covered and just having spent and ungodly amount of money on Christmas already.  Given that these things are more intended to be Christmas gifts and that consumers actually, you know, are aware of its existence, I would expect that.

 

What I don't understand is how so many "discerning" gamers can look at these emulator boxes, which are now in the $100+ range, which defeats the whole purpose of this being a cheap almost gag Christmas gift and is now real money, and just shrug their shoulders.  But the VCS, which is 3x the price but 1000x the capability?  Oh, that's a complete piece of crap.  You'd have to be a real sucker to fall for something like that.  

 

I mean, I know they all say hey, if you like it, good for ya', but boy do they act genuinely pissed that any other console manufacturer would dare enter the market from here on out.

[zzip]

3 minutes ago, MrTrust said:

I would expect the 2600+ and Gamestation Pro to sell more than the VCS.  I literally had to stop myself from buying it the other day.  I was shopping for my wife, ended up in Kohl's, browsing around... hey, would you look at that!  I got halfway to the counter before I had to stop and say to myself "what the hell am I doing?"  I just bought a second VCS; I have no practical use for this thing whatsoever.  I'd literally be buying it just for the controllers the whole reason I bought the second all-in rather than the base VCS was the controllers, and realistically, when am I ever going to get a 4-player Warlords game in my living room, which is the possible justification for this at all.

 

But still, they almost got me, those sneaky bastards.  All that brain-hacking impulse buy store design almost got me to drop $90 on that thing despite me knowing I've got all that covered and just having spent and ungodly amount of money on Christmas already.  Given that these things are more intended to be Christmas gifts and that consumers actually, you know, are aware of its existence, I would expect that.

Haha, yeah I've felt the "tug" of the 2600+ from time to time too, but I keep reminding myself that my original 2600 is still packed away in my basement, and still works last time I checked, and I don't own any 7800 carts, so what's the point?

 

Sure it's still fun opening a shiny new gadget Christmas morning, but that feeling wears off pretty quick when it doesn't do anything you couldn't already do   

 

[Lord Thag]

20 minutes ago, zzip said:

Haha, yeah I've felt the "tug" of the 2600+ from time to time too, but I keep reminding myself that my original 2600 is still packed away in my basement, and still works last time I checked, and I don't own any 7800 carts, so what's the point?

 

Sure it's still fun opening a shiny new gadget Christmas morning, but that feeling wears off pretty quick when it doesn't do anything you couldn't already do   

 

I think the main draw isn't that it can just play 2600 carts, my 41 year old original Vader can too.

 

The draw is that it does so on my HDMI LCD TV, and it looks fantastic. I've lost about 2/3 of my old tube TVs due to age and failing parts in the last decade, I think the main draw of the 2600+ is that we can all still enjoy the benefits of the (damn near indestructible) carts without having to mod an original atari and buy a retrotink to get it to display on a modern TV. At least, that's my take. It will also be a boon for preservationists in that it's also going to be a competent, easily available cart dumper.

 

The VCS, though, definitely suffers from the 'who is this for' syndrome. I was gifted one, and I'll be honest: I enjoy it. It's got some great games on it. But I play it because of the novelty. I think Atari's current strategy (including the Polymega buy) seems smarter: retro systems that directly target long term collectors/fans that are a noticeable step up in terms of quality from the Hyperkin/Atgames walmart stuff.

 

Time will tell though.

[MrTrust]

9 minutes ago, zzip said:

Haha, yeah I've felt the "tug" of the 2600+ from time to time too, but I keep reminding myself that my original 2600 is still packed away in my basement, and still works last time I checked, and I don't own any 7800 carts, so what's the point?

 

This is what I don't understand about it.  If it was system-on-chip, I probably would have picked one up, because I have a 7800, but the case is crumbling and it's definitely got some bad RAM or something, because I get small little corruptions on the graphics.  So, having something that truly does replace that machine would be very nice.  I know there are things that can do that, but nothing in a nice package like this.  With all the chest pounding Atari have done about really doubling down on retro and really trying to "get it," they put out a ROM dumper/Stella box?  Even if it's the absolute best of its type, to me, that's just not cutting the mustard.  For that money, I'd might as well just buy another 7800.

 

38 minutes ago, zzip said:

The cool thing about the VCS it has a slim console form factor with built-in bluetooth,    That's something that most PCs don't have.   I've long wanted such a system as a living room retro/emulation box and tried to build one around a raspberry Pi, but always found the Pi's too weak and finicky to do a good job.   The VCS is more powerful and x86 compatible so it just runs everything without issue, so it was perfect for that task.   It's definitely something I didn't have.

 

 

This is exactly why I bought it, too, and two.  It is simply not the case that there is a whole slew of devices that do everything the VCS does, with the same kind of convenience, and at the same price point, and that also look really good sitting on the mantle in the living room.  It's handy.  No other devices that I have, or that I have any interest in are handy like this is.  Now, you and I may be outliers, and to some extent we are, but as the millennials start to age out of being able to keep on the console/PC treadmill, I have a feeling that this application you're describing is going to be more in-demand.

The Polymega stuff bringing your old physical media into that system is a difference maker; what they really need is a component to let you get at your PC catalog, which is obviously more complicated given that so many people's stuff is shackled to some client or other, but you could at least partially solve that with streaming.  Imagining something like that, in the VCS form factor, but with a more modular design so you can add carts and whatnot to it, with real ease of access to all/most of the games you already have, plus new(er) stuff for download and streaming of the newest stuff if you really want that, and have that at a modest price.  That I could see being successful.  It's kind of scummy because you'd be charging subscriptions to let people play cartridges and discs they already own, but this is the world we live in now.

 

1 hour ago, zzip said:

But it seems that most people need marketing to tell them what a device is for, and Atari's marketing did them no favors here by sending a confused message.

 

They needed, at minimum, an Among Us or a Minecraft available on Atari OS and in the store Day One, possibly even as a pack-in.  They needed a mainstream, tentpole game that kids are into and that adults have heard of right up front.  Those games are cross-platform.  Sure, Little Jimmy isn't going to be asking for VCS for Christmas, but even if this was all there was in the house to play games on, he can still play the game all his friends play, cross-platform.  They needed one really good party game.  They needed a couple of top-tier indie games, not necessarily the newest ones, but a couple of cream-of-the-crop titles.   They needed a launch lineup that would show that this thing is not just for fat, bearded, 45+ year-old Youtubers to ooh and ahh over the resolution on Tempest.

Lean into the woodgrain thing, actually.  This is the un-console.  Your kid is going to yank the Switch out of the dock and run into his room with it to watch Youtube videos.  Your wife is going to use the potato laptop to order photo prints from Walgreens.  Your husband is going to put the PS5 in his man cave and do whatever he does down there with it.   This is the living room device.  This is the thing that we play together when we're all hanging out in the living room.  This is the thing you hand Cousin Cleetus to play at Christmas to keep him from bouncing off the walls.  This is what we watch our 4k movies on, whatever.   Everybody can all sit around and play Ninja Turtles II and have a good laugh with it.  Yes, there are other ways to play Ninja Turtles II, but this is the best way to do it short of putting an arcade cabinet in your living room, which your wife is not going to let you do anyway.

I know they did show a lot of that stuff, but it really needed to be buttressed by that game console part, and that part was really lame in the early going, and still there is not even one top-flite indie game on there.  End's Reach is the closest you got, but that ain't got the look of a Hollow Knight, or a Valfaris.  They needed something to show on that screen other than fucking Centipede, and I think people just saw that and tuned out.  How many times do they expect to buy that game?