Call me crazy.... I think I know Atari's plan...

[Trinity]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/204553145715?hash=item2fa0514d73:g:qaMAAOSwZBtlYQQY&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4Fh2yGB1pdvtM7K2Fd2M9MJmnyt7w%2FHL51m3gnQ3ZjwxcPLgd%2FAMYZfGzniH5XgNZkQtapLm%2BWMtCEd486y0Qa2JLMA8RObnhj27y0OgNGqxCihGuUH9qzH4669hBhPdTbRm2qojO87cVWsG18lO3l3%2BMbtfXTigQIGB28Ao1yLL%2F9WzLPvr8s3kfzOItbcQgfkpGKoWLVNXzYmVcFghA%2BIPxqOY5SNt%2FWiGh%2Fiwe1C4I%2F%2Bsl8bOCzZMvotdWdGDouuLFu%2BO0PioEyNKVXNSbkla4mz814QJLj93grlg%2B1Rw|tkp%3ABFBM4uz6qo1j

[zzip]

39 minutes ago, MrTrust said:

This is what I don't understand about it.  If it was system-on-chip, I probably would have picked one up, because I have a 7800, but the case is crumbling and it's definitely got some bad RAM or something, because I get small little corruptions on the graphics.  So, having something that truly does replace that machine would be very nice.  I know there are things that can do that, but nothing in a nice package like this.  With all the chest pounding Atari have done about really doubling down on retro and really trying to "get it," they put out a ROM dumper/Stella box?  Even if it's the absolute best of its type, to me, that's just not cutting the mustard.  For that money, I'd might as well just buy another 7800.

I remember back in college some roommates smashed a 2600, and there was so little electronics inside it was crazy,  hardly any ICs.   Even companies like Coleco cloned it BITD.   I can't imagine it's that hard to produce a true clone of it even today (not FPGA),  the 7800 is probably a different story as that's more complicated.   But it's a different skill set producing a clone that functions electronically similar to the original than integrating emulators,  and it may be harder to find electronics engineers today than back in the 70s

 

46 minutes ago, MrTrust said:

what they really need is a component to let you get at your PC catalog, which is obviously more complicated given that so many people's stuff is shackled to some client or other, but you could at least partially solve that with streaming.  Imagining something like that, in the VCS form factor, but with a more modular design so you can add carts and whatnot to it, with real ease of access to all/most of the games you already have, plus new(er) stuff for download and streaming of the newest stuff

46 minutes ago, MrTrust said:

They needed, at minimum, an Among Us or a Minecraft available on Atari OS and in the store Day One, possibly even as a pack-in.  They needed a mainstream, tentpole game that kids are into and that adults have heard of right up front.  Those games are cross-platform.  Sure, Little Jimmy isn't going to be asking for VCS for Christmas, but even if this was all there was in the house to play games on, he can still play the game all his friends play, cross-platform.  They needed one really good party game.  They needed a couple of top-tier indie games, not necessarily the newest ones, but a couple of cream-of-the-crop titles.   

I still wonder if it would have been so bad if they created a front-end to Steam or GoG rather than their own store?    They could still feature Atari content front page, and stuff known to work well on the VCS, but still allow to install anything else from those stores at your risk.   It would give an instant library day one including many titles popular with kids. 

 

But I guess it would take the excitement out of anytime a new VCS game releases

 

 

56 minutes ago, MrTrust said:

They needed a launch lineup that would show that this thing is not just for fat, bearded, 45+ year-old Youtubers to ooh and ahh over the resolution on Tempest.

Hey!  Nolan isn't just some 45+ year-old bearded youtuber!! 

 

59 minutes ago, MrTrust said:

Lean into the woodgrain thing, actually.

Yeah it's funny,  in general I hate woodgrained electronics,  but I kind of wish my VCS had the woodgrain panel, and not the black onyx one.   I guess I should be happy for the "Vader" model, but they seem much more common, and I'm not sure why they did that.

[Trinity]

Man, I just can't enjoy old school games without a crt.

[rocketfan]

4 hours ago, zzip said:

Really the VCS should be in a box between the two..   A retrobox for people tired of buying crappy cheap retroboxes,  with some console features like online store.. but it was never trying to replace your PS5 or Switch, as many people think it was trying to do.    

Amen.  Probably the most insightful comment I read from above.  Why even try to outdo the mainstream game console players?  Not going to happen.  They did not go quite retro enough for me.  If the VCS had original cart and controller support it would have been a no-brainer for me, and a foot in the door for Atari to get me to buy more of their new stuff as well.  Maybe that's where they will go with this - then I'll have another device I have to buy. 

 

[82-T/A]

11 hours ago, rocketfan said:

Amen.  Probably the most insightful comment I read from above.  Why even try to outdo the mainstream game console players?  Not going to happen.  They did not go quite retro enough for me.  If the VCS had original cart and controller support it would have been a no-brainer for me, and a foot in the door for Atari to get me to buy more of their new stuff as well.  Maybe that's where they will go with this - then I'll have another device I have to buy.

 

Are there people who think it was trying to compete with the Switch and PS5?

 

FWIW, I love the VCS... it's been a fantastic system and one of the few things I actually play.

[MrTrust]

17 hours ago, zzip said:

I still wonder if it would have been so bad if they created a front-end to Steam or GoG rather than their own store?    They could still feature Atari content front page, and stuff known to work well on the VCS, but still allow to install anything else from those stores at your risk.   It would give an instant library day one including many titles popular with kids. 

 

But I guess it would take the excitement out of anytime a new VCS game releases

 

The VCS store is inferior in a lot of ways, not least of which the fact that some substantial number of users can't buy things, and you could say the same thing about Atari OS in general.  Two things it does have going for it:

Slow but steady drip of releases.  One game every week or two, that is small enough that I can play through it before the next one drops, that's a pretty good schedule.  There's only a few that I've gotten that I haven't at least gotten far into.  Same time, the releases are regular enough that you're not going months on end without anything new, and you just end up losing interest the platform, as tends to happen with Nintendo platforms (though not the Switch).  The problem I have with Steam/GOG/Epic, is there's too much damn choice.  It's that same I-spend-more-time-browsing-Netflix-than-actually-watching-anything phenomenon.  The more stuff I have, the less of that stuff I actually end up playing.  This is a real, widespread phenomenon.

 

Second thing: the system does not constantly try to sell me stuff.  This is bad from a revenue-maxing standpoint, but when you boot into Atari OS, you just go straight to your home screen where, presumably, you have the stuff you want to get to the most arranged right there in front.  No constant messaging to you with ads and sales and get-hyped-for-next-product press releases.  If I don't deliberately go to the store and look or check here or Discord, I will not know there is a new game released for the VCS.  Bad for business, I'm sure, but much better for the user, ultimately.

 

At least with Antstream, even though there's the overwhelming selection, they have the challenges and tournaments.  That actually does get me to stop and sit down with a game to play for a while, often ones that I had no intention of booting up the console to play.  So, what you're describing would be better in a lot of ways than what we have now, but one thing that I do really appreciate about the system is that the firehose is opt-in; you have to go and intentionally turn it on yourself.  Whatever the platform of the future is, I want that limit to be built into it in some way.

 

3 hours ago, 82-T/A said:

FWIW, I love the VCS... it's been a fantastic system and one of the few things I actually play.

 

This is the crux of it.  If what makes a good system is that I actually want to play it a lot, and do play it a lot, then the VCS is about as good as any system, at least for me, at least for where I am in life.

[zzip]

9 hours ago, 82-T/A said:

Are there people who think it was trying to compete with the Switch and PS5?

 

The VCS haters claim that it is, and therefore a failure.   Occasionally a VCS fan will, but most know what to expect from system by now.

 

6 hours ago, MrTrust said:

The problem I have with Steam/GOG/Epic, is there's too much damn choice.  It's that same I-spend-more-time-browsing-Netflix-than-actually-watching-anything phenomenon.  The more stuff I have, the less of that stuff I actually end up playing.  This is a real, widespread phenomenon.

This is a real issue.   The "57 channels and nothing" on phenemenon.   Seems like the more choice you have, the less appealing any given choice is.   I don't subscribe to gamepass-style services because I know this will happen to me.

 

6 hours ago, MrTrust said:

Second thing: the system does not constantly try to sell me stuff.  This is bad from a revenue-maxing standpoint, but when you boot into Atari OS, you just go straight to your home screen where, presumably, you have the stuff you want to get to the most arranged right there in front.  No constant messaging to you with ads and sales and get-hyped-for-next-product press releases.  If I don't deliberately go to the store and look or check here or Discord, I will not know there is a new game released for the VCS.  Bad for business, I'm sure, but much better for the user, ultimately.

 

I never really noticed, but yeah you're right.    But Atari makes up for it by sending several email spams per week.

 

 

[Warboss Gegguz]

1 hour ago, zzip said:

The VCS haters claim that it is, and therefore a failure.   Occasionally a VCS fan will, but most know what to expect from system by now.

It's more like there's no reason for it to exist in a market that's full of options that do the same thing. If me comparing it to the Switch and PS5 was the issue, fine. I'll replay: You can generic android handhelds and linux boxes from anywhere, what is the incentive to get a VCS specifically when it comes with a fairly substantial upcharge? My problem isn't that it doesn't compete with the switch, it's that I DON'T KNOW WHAT ITS PURPOSE OR PLACE IN THE MARKET EVEN IS. I've been avoiding this comparison... but it's the same sort of situation as the Ouya (albeit far less egregious). It's a device whose use-case and appeal is so niche that it may as well not even exist. The functions I've been told you guys use it for are on par with a Firestick, Roku, or Apple TV. But those aren't $300.

 

Also, don't call me "a hater". I'm sorry I'm trying to convey as best as possible why I see this as a waste of time and resources specifically because I want this company to get it's head out of its ass for the first time in over 20 years. I don't hate atari AT ALL, I like the direction new leadership is talking about and want it to succeed. But I don't think this kind of hardware is part of that future purely because the cost outweighs whatever gain can be gotten. The audience is too small. I've been trying to explain why it is DEMONSTRABLY small, but I get shot down because I'm just hating it for personal reasons or something...

 

1 hour ago, zzip said:

This is a real issue.   The "57 channels and nothing" on phenomenon.   Seems like the more choice you have, the less appealing any given choice is.   I don't subscribe to gamepass-style services because I know this will happen to me.

I mean, if you keep up with projects you already like the devs of or listen to word of mouth rather than just diving head first into Steam/GOG releases, it's really not hard to find shit. I more so struggle with "so much shit I want to play, so little time" than anything else, but that's just called life.

[82-T/A]

1 hour ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

It's more like there's no reason for it to exist in a market that's full of options that do the same thing.

 

Shoot... that's like saying half the cars in the marketplace shouldn't exist because there's over 3 dozen car companies that all make cars that do the same thing.

 

[Warboss Gegguz]

30 minutes ago, 82-T/A said:

 

Shoot... that's like saying half the cars in the marketplace shouldn't exist because there's over 3 dozen car companies that all make cars that do the same thing.

 

That's an extremely false equivalence.

It's more like saying there are 50 different farmers at the market all selling the exact same kind of apple but with different advertising and price.

The things I'm talking about are literally the same thing as a VCS minus the branding... and about $100.

[MrTrust]

11 minutes ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

The things I'm talking about are literally the same thing as a VCS minus the branding... and about $100.

 

Show me a picture of one right now.

[PowerDubs]

47 minutes ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

That's an extremely false equivalence.

It's more like saying there are 50 different farmers at the market all selling the exact same kind of apple but with different advertising and price.

The things I'm talking about are literally the same thing as a VCS minus the branding... and about $100.

 

 

Show me a mini PC- that comes with it's own OS, apps, games, store, wifi, bluetooth, USB, HDMI, that you can load Windows or another OS, add RAM, add an SSD, in a small attractive case, with these specs- for anywhere near the price.  I'll wait...

[MrTrust]

NOOOOOO IT'S JUST A HECKIN' LAPTOP WITHOUT A BUILT-IN SCREEN MY DUDES JUST RE-BUY ALL YOUR OLD GAMES ON SWITCH MY DUDES AND BUY 3 DIFFERENT THINGS OFF NEWEGG YOU'LL SAVE LIKE $12 MY DUDES IT SHOULDN'T EXIST MY DUDES.

 

haha pong machine go bleep bloop

[Flojomojo]

14 hours ago, 82-T/A said:

Shoot... that's like saying half the cars in the marketplace shouldn't exist because there's over 3 dozen car companies that all make cars that do the same thing.

Nobody can tell a manufacturer not to try and compete in a free and open market. 

 

Customers can choose how to spend their hard earned $300+.

 

Atari (and its fans) can say that VCS isn’t competing with x, y, and z but people have limited money and time and the market leader is usually in front for valid reasons. 

 

I’m Captain Obvious and I endorse this message. 

[Warboss Gegguz]

14 hours ago, PowerDubs said:

 

 

Show me a mini PC- that comes with it's own OS, apps, games, store, wifi, bluetooth, USB, HDMI, that you can load Windows or another OS, add RAM, add an SSD, in a small attractive case, with these specs- for anywhere near the price.  I'll wait...

 

15 hours ago, MrTrust said:

 

Show me a picture of one right now.

Sorry, slept in.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08FWKMCNQ?ref_=cm_sw_r_apan_dp_5NNDAKA5375TPP5NHCVR&language=en-US

 

Literally first result on Google for "mini PC TV"...

Edited December 16, 2023 by Warboss Gegguz

[Warboss Gegguz]

And the reviews are better than the VCS.

 

 

[+jeremiahjt]

12 minutes ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

And the reviews are better than the VCS.

 

 

How are old you? You talk about having a degree from college, but you post like an immature pre-teen.

[Warboss Gegguz]

• 6 minutes ago, jeremiahjt said:

  How are old you? You talk about having a degree from college, but you post like an immature pre-teen.

  Bro, dudes literally posted soyjacks... in response to me.

It's pretty clear any semblance of meaningful and/or polite dialog has gone out the window. Wasn't my intention, but I guess when you're tech bros and DESPERATE to justify your stupid bullshit investments courtesy is second to shutting down valid criticism.

 

Idk if you just got here, but these people seem to have worse tunnelvision than a naked mole rat. Their entire argument has boiled down to " yeah, but I like the VCS so CLEARLY there's a huge audience for it!"

Edited December 16, 2023 by Warboss Gegguz

[+jeremiahjt]

Just now, Warboss Gegguz said:

• Bro, dudes literally posted soyjacks... in response to me.

It's pretty clear any semblance of meaningful and/or polite dialog has gone out the window. Wasn't my intention, but I guess when you're tech bros and DESPERATE to justify your stupid bullshit investments courtesy is second to shutting down valid criticism.

Dude, you need to calm down. If you were attempting polite and meaningful dialog, you did not attempt it long.

[Matt_B]

For a more measured answer, here's an example of a mini PC of similar specs than the VCS for just over a hundred bucks. It even comes with Windows and an SSD built in:

 

https://www.amazon.com/HP-EliteDesk-4CB30UT-Desktop-i5-8500T/dp/B07MSLXK7R

 

It's got its own OS. Apps and games are available via the Windows store or third party ones like Steam and GoG. It's got WiFi, Bluetooth, USB, dual DisplayPorts (better than one HMDI). You can upgrade the RAM. An SSD is preinstalled. The case is pretty small. Opinions on aesthetics may vary but it looks decent enough to me.

 

It's not the only one, there are even cheaper older models, plus Lenovo and Dell have their equivalents.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-Think-Center-M73-Tiny/dp/B07F88Y6T2

https://www.amazon.com/Dell-Optiplex-Computer-i5-4570T-Bluetooth/dp/B07XFR5T6F

 

Before everyone starts moving the goalposts, I'm not saying that these the better options for everyone. If only the VCS does it for you, that's fine; you like what you like.

 

The point is that the VCS is thoroughly unremarkable in terms of size, performance, connectivity and upgrade potential. The only things it has going for it are its looks and the Atari branding and they're only really selling it to the die hard fans here.

 

Ultimately, all mini PCs are destined for the eWaste bin when the time comes when you need a better CPU and GPU though, so I can't really recommend any of them.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Matt_B
Fixed links

[Warboss Gegguz]

6 minutes ago, jeremiahjt said:

Dude, you need to calm down. If you were attempting polite and meaningful dialog, you did not attempt it long.

Because I gave detailed explanations as to why the VCS has a limited to non-existent demographic and why it would be better to reinvest in other ventures, and it got written off as me "being a hater"?

 

Idk if you read anything else I wrote, but I wasn't coming in here and just being "lol, VeeSeaEs gae!"

Edited December 16, 2023 by Warboss Gegguz

[PowerDubs]

You respond with a thumb drive when I clearly said - add RAM, add an SSD, in a small attractive case, with these specs?

 

Nowhere near the same thing...

 

 

[PowerDubs]

7 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

Ultimately, all mini PCs are destined for the eWaste bin when the time comes when you need a better CPU and GPU though, so I can't really recommend any of them.

 

Every link you posted doesn't work for me... gives a not found page- but has dogs, so that's fun.

[+jeremiahjt]

7 minutes ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

Because I gave detailed explanations as to why the VCS has a limited to non-existent demographic and why it would be better to reinvest in other ventures, and it got written off as me "being a hater"?

 

Idk if you read anything else I wrote, but I wasn't coming in here and just being "lol, VeeSeaEs gae!"

I believe you first started posting in the 2600+ subforum, and I did not see anything wrong with your posting. When you started talking about the VCS, your posting changed. You became much more antagonistic, particularly when anybody disagreed with you.

[Warboss Gegguz]

9 minutes ago, PowerDubs said:

You respond with a thumb drive when I clearly said - add RAM, add an SSD, in a small attractive case, with these specs?

 

Nowhere near the same thing...

 

 

"4GB RAM 64GB ROM Support Auto-On After Power Failure,Support 4K HD,Dual Band WiFi 2.4G/5G, BT 4.2"

 

DID YOU EVEN READ IT?!

Edited December 16, 2023 by Warboss Gegguz