+LS650 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) 18 hours ago, MrChickenz said: Whoops... Edited January 9 by LS650 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEANJIMMY Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) 10 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said: Not sure. I'll ask. We are looking at it. I got a build today with PAL games capped at 50FPS but had a 60hz output and the missing sprites were gone. But this doesnt feel like a proper fix. Surely it has to be 50FPS at 50hz. If I load Pitfall PAL on the regular V1.1 the TV switches to 50p (HZ) right after start, on V1.0 it was 60p. Some 7800 PAL hormebrews like Scramble (flicker) or Asteroids Deluxe (black screen) had issues on V1.1. @raz0redprovided the info of the escape sequence and a debug load to let prosystem to start in PAL mode. How ever these "PAL" homebrews (Space Invaders, Space Duel, Moon Cresta, too) start fine in PAL mode of prosystem but the TV shows 60p (60Hz). So far I did not see anything odd, played Asteroids Deluxe longer time and Scramble was fine too. I will play them again tonight but did not see an issue so far and explained it to myself these PAL homebrews are rather NTSC hacks with correct colors. All official PAL 7800 games like Commando run on V1.1 with 50p (50Hz) as expected. Just some side info from prosystem. Stella on your current load seems to do something similar (game at 50Hz but display at 60Hz). On Stella Kaboom had smoother paddle control on 50p than 60p, so as you said, real 50Hz should be the goal for Stella. Edited January 9 by DEANJIMMY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEANJIMMY Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 BTW Popeye 7800 will work on next official release. I got debug loads based on V1.1 and it works on the latest. Gonna testing the game play tonight a bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 4 hours ago, LS650 said: No, Robot City doesn't work even with firmware v1.1. Hm, Robot City works for me. Are you maybe confusing my game with Activision's Robot Tank? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dionoid Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 7 hours ago, pseudografx said: There are displays that only work in 60Hz even when a 50Hz input is fed. They do display the image but not at the right fps. Perhaps that's the issue some people are having? That doesn't explain the missing frames. If your display is 60Hz (progressive) and the game outputs 50FPS, then you would see all the frames, but every 1⁄10 of a second you'll see the same frame twice, causing objects in motion to move less fluidly. The 50Hz implementation in the 1.1 beta firmware is doing something wrong for PAL 2600 games, where it almost seems the output is 24FPS and the games are slowed down a bit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariYMás009 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 So the solution is putting 50hz at 50fps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+sramirez2008 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 5 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: Hm, Robot City works for me. Are you maybe confusing my game with Activision's Robot Tank? Works for me as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 17 hours ago, Dionoid said: Below is a close-up video of the PAL 50Hz issue - it should always show both even and uneven scanlines of the inventory text in Circus Convoy. I'm pretty sure this is also causing the disappearing ghosts in Ms. Pac-Man. @Ben from Plaion I'm not sure what you mean by "PAL games capped at 50FPS", as 50FPS is regular PAL, right? I'm sure you're aware that displaying 50FPS games at 60Hz makes the animation less smooth and is basically what the 1.0 firmware was already doing. A game which shows this clearly is Dodge 'Em - during the attract mode the horizontal animation of the cars should be super smooth both in NTSC and PAL. Would you mind trying this and telling what you see, vs 1.0 and 1.1 update-0104-pacman强制60hz.img Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pseudografx Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 3 hours ago, Dionoid said: That doesn't explain the missing frames. If your display is 60Hz (progressive) and the game outputs 50FPS, then you would see all the frames, but every 1⁄10 of a second you'll see the same frame twice, causing objects in motion to move less fluidly. The 50Hz implementation in the 1.1 beta firmware is doing something wrong for PAL 2600 games, where it almost seems the output is 24FPS and the games are slowed down a bit. Fair point. But still it would look ugly with uneven pace of odd/even frames. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 12 minutes ago, pseudografx said: Fair point. But still it would look ugly with uneven pace of odd/even frames. I've seen the frame counters in Stella showing rock solid 50FPS with 50hz and 60hz output builds. 50hz has missing sprites 60hz does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 9 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said: I've seen the frame counters in Stella showing rock solid 50FPS with 50hz and 60hz output builds. 50hz has missing sprites 60hz does not. The FPS represent the emulation speed. If frames are skipped, it will still display 50 FPS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 4 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: The FPS represent the emulation speed. If frames are skipped, it will still display 50 FPS. How did you deal with this is in the r77 stella 6.6 build, you have all the display options PAL, NTSC, SECAM etc etc, but my display doesnt change its always 60hz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dionoid Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ben from Plaion said: Would you mind trying this and telling what you see, vs 1.0 and 1.1 I tried this update-0104-pacman强制60hz.img image, but it still shows the same issue in Circus Convoy as the update-1225.img image. Then I reverted to the 1.0 image (while keeping the latest 1.1 dumper), but now Circus Convoy doesn't load anymore. So it seems the 1.1 dumper depends on the 1.1 firmware. Btw, update-0104 is an old update, compared to update-1225, right? Edited January 9 by Dionoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chad5200 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 3 minutes ago, Dionoid said: Btw, update-0104 is an old update, compared to update-1225, right? My guess is 0104 = January 4.... and 1225 = December 25. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 12 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said: How did you deal with this is in the r77 stella 6.6 build, you have all the display options PAL, NTSC, SECAM etc etc, but my display doesnt change its always 60hz That's the display frequency, not the emulation speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 10 minutes ago, Dionoid said: I tried this update-0104-pacman强制60hz.img image, but it still shows the same issue in Circus Convoy as the update-1225.img image. Then I reverted to the 1.0 image (while keeping the latest 1.1 dumper), but now Circus Convoy doesn't load anymore. So it seems the 1.1 dumper depends on the 1.1 firmware. Btw, update-0104 is an old update, compared to update-1225, right? Sounds like two seperate isssues then, as that build gets rid of missing sprites in pac-man. Indeed Circus Convoy required work on the dumper and emulator software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 8 minutes ago, chad5200 said: My guess is 0104 = January 4.... and 1225 = December 25. Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 9 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: That's the display frequency, not the emulation speed. So the 60hz can remain as long as the PAL carts run at 50FPS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dionoid Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 37 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: The FPS represent the emulation speed. If frames are skipped, it will still display 50 FPS. When you say "If frames are skipped", do you mean the skipped frames because of the display frequency not able to keep up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariYMás009 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) As far as I understand, all Atari 2600 games, regardless of whether they are PAL (50Hz refresh rate) or NTSC, should run at 60fps (framerate). So from my point of view the 50fps should be replaced with 60fps, since if the 50Hz is omitted, I wouldn't have the z26 palette, right? My proposal would be to implement 50Hz as before but at 60FPS instead of 50FPS. Edited January 9 by AtariYMás009 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 12 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said: So the 60hz can remain as long as the PAL carts run at 50FPS? No, a 50Hz display is better, because it results into smoother movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dionoid Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) 19 hours ago, Dionoid said: About the "wiggling" of the text characters in the video above: when I run Stella on my laptop with the screen set to 50Hz, I don't see the wiggling. So maybe the 1.1 firmware wasn't able to set my led TV correctly to 50Hz? Or is libretro/retroarch support for Rockchip/Mali getting in the way and not playing along when you set video_refresh_rate = "50"? Edited January 9 by Dionoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 12 minutes ago, Dionoid said: About the "wiggling" of the text characters in the video above: when I run Stella on my 50Hz monitor, I don't see the wiggling. So maybe the 1.1 firmware wasn't able to set my led TV correctly to 50Hz? Does your monitor not display the framerate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 26 minutes ago, Dionoid said: When you say "If frames are skipped", do you mean the skipped frames because of the display frequency not able to keep up? If the emulation is too slow for the required frequency, frames are skipped. So the overall speed remains constant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dionoid Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: Does your monitor not display the framerate? No, unfortunately it doesn't (I have an old Sony Bravia TV). I just tried my HP monitor and that indeed shows that it's set to 50Hz - but show the same issue in Circus Convoy. 22 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: If the emulation is too slow for the required frequency, frames are skipped. So the overall speed remains constant. I'm assuming the 2600+ is powerful enough to do emulation without frame dropping, but I could be wrong. Edited January 9 by Dionoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.