Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 6 minutes ago, Dionoid said: I'm assuming the 2600+ is powerful enough to do emulation without frame dropping, but I could be wrong. With audio-preset = 5, I am not so sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 21 minutes ago, Dionoid said: About the "wiggling" of the text characters in the video above: when I run Stella on my laptop with the screen set to 50Hz, I don't see the wiggling. So maybe the 1.1 firmware wasn't able to set my led TV correctly to 50Hz? Or is libretro/retroarch support for Rockchip/Mali getting in the way and not playing along when you set video_refresh_rate = "50"? No the display is certainly being set to 50hz on xmas build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 Just now, Thomas Jentzsch said: With audio-preset = 5, I am not so sure. Get two builds tomorrow. One set at 1 and the other at 2 But anyway surely CPU power is not the issue because higher frame rates and hz work fine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dionoid Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 12 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said: No the display is certainly being set to 50hz on xmas build. Yes, I get the same (actually 49Hz on my monitor, not sure why). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pseudografx Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Just now, Dionoid said: Yes, I get the same (actually 49Hz on my monitor, not sure why). I assume this is just rounding error in the monitor's firmware. E.g. PAL Atari 800-series computers output a little less than 50Hz, more like 49.86Hz. 2600 might do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariYMás009 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 I still think that the solution can be 50Hz at 60fps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 1 minute ago, AtariYMás009 said: I still think that the solution can be 50Hz at 60fps I'm going to ask for a build at this spec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 32 minutes ago, Dionoid said: I'm assuming the 2600+ is powerful enough to do emulation without frame dropping, but I could be wrong. It likely is, but if vsync is enabled, the emulator will hang on to the last frame if the new one isn't ready. My guess here is that one frame of emulation plus the framebuffer draw is taking slightly more than 50hz, and one frame of emulation with the dropped framebuffer draw is taking slightly less. That might cause the alternating frame effect. NTSC would have a bit more grace, as a 262 line display it's actually emulated at 59.92Hz, while modern panel displays are indeed 60Hz. This could be verified by disabling vsync, if enabled. (I do see it enabled in the retroarch.cfg in the beta1.1 image) If that's right, it could be mitigated by running the pal emulation at a slightly higher clock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dionoid Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) 10 minutes ago, AtariYMás009 said: I still think that the solution can be 50Hz at 60fps PAL games draw 50fps, so I don't see how that could be increased to 60fps without messing up the emulation speed? Edited January 9 by Dionoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 7 minutes ago, AtariYMás009 said: I still think that the solution can be 50Hz at 60fps I cannot see any reason to go into that direction. Which makes 50Hz games look worse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 8 minutes ago, RevEng said: It likely is, but if vsync is enabled, the emulator will hang on to the last frame if the new one isn't ready. My guess here is that one frame of emulation plus the framebuffer draw is taking slightly more than 50hz, and one frame of emulation with the dropped framebuffer draw is taking slightly less. That might cause the alternating frame effect. NTSC would have a bit more grace, as a 262 line display it's actually emulated at 59.92Hz, while modern panel displays are indeed 60Hz. This could be verified by disabling vsync, if enabled. (I do see it enabled in the retroarch.cfg in the beta1.1 image) If that's right, it could be mitigated by running the pal emulation at a slightly higher clock. I'm going to ask for a build with vsync disabled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dionoid Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) 23 minutes ago, RevEng said: It likely is, but if vsync is enabled, the emulator will hang on to the last frame if the new one isn't ready. My guess here is that one frame of emulation plus the framebuffer draw is taking slightly more than 50hz, and one frame of emulation with the dropped framebuffer draw is taking slightly less. That might cause the alternating frame effect. NTSC would have a bit more grace, as a 262 line display it's actually emulated at 59.92Hz, while modern panel displays are indeed 60Hz. This could be verified by disabling vsync, if enabled. If that's right, it could be mitigated by running the pal emulation at a slightly higher clock. Ah, that would explain why some games seem to run slower. I was testing out Juno First (PAL 60Hz version) where the music runs slightly faster during the highscore screen than during the logo screen. It feels like the 2600+'s GPU can't keep up with the complex display of Juno First's logo screen. That screen also uses alternating scanlines to display a big logo, just like the menu text of Circus Convoy does. Edited January 9 by Dionoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariYMás009 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 yeah, Don't listen to me, it's true, PAL games run at 50fps. As for disabling V-sync, this produces graphical anomalies in the games, so I think it is not a solution at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dionoid Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ben from Plaion said: Get two builds tomorrow. One set at 1 and the other at 2 But anyway surely CPU power is not the issue because higher frame rates and hz work fine. I agree with @Thomas Jentzsch that using audio.preset=2 or 3 (medium lag) will make a huge difference. My guess is that this will fix the problems in Circus Convoy, California games and Juno First (homebrew). According to Stella's documentation, audio.preset=1 stands for "custom", which probably means you also have to provide the other audio.* parameters, so are you sure about that one? Edited January 9 by Dionoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 7 minutes ago, AtariYMás009 said: yeah, Don't listen to me, it's true, PAL games run at 50fps. As for disabling V-sync, this produces graphical anomalies in the games, so I think it is not a solution at all. It wasn't the suggested solution, just a suggested quick test. That's not a proper display for disabling vsync - worst case glitch should be screen tearing - so there's something in the retroarch+stella that isn't working correctly without vsync. The actual remediation I suggested was to run the emulated 6502 clock faster, say by 1%. Since vsync was a bust, that would need to be tested instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dionoid Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 9 minutes ago, RevEng said: The actual remediation I suggested was to run the emulated 6502 clock faster, say by 1%. I would put my money on changing Stella's audio.preset to 2 or 3. Running the emulation faster feels like something you would try when all other solutions fail, I don't know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 21 minutes ago, Dionoid said: I agree with @Thomas Jentzsch that using audio.preset=2 or 3 (medium lag) will make a huge difference. My guess is that this will fix the problems in Circus Convoy, California games and Juno First (homebrew). According to Stella's documentation, audio.preset=1 stands for "custom", which probably means you also have to provide the other audio.* parameters, so are you sure about that one? He said try 1 or 2, let's see tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Karl G Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 TL;DR - someone wants to know if Penult will work on the 2600+, and I'm hoping to find out here. My recently-released game Penult is 128K and uses DFSC bankswitching. I'm pretty sure it's the only released game to use this bankswitching format. I know that this wasn't included in the initial release, but I'm wondering if support for DFSC has been added in the first update or will be coming later? Since I know of no technical reason it couldn't be added, and the goal is to support as many homebrews as possible, I'd assume that it will be added eventually, but I don't want to tell him that unless I know for sure. To complicate matters a bit, I can't even ask anyone who bought Penult at PRGE and who also has a 2600+ to test it for me, because those first-run carts were done on a Melody board, and I'm pretty sure those won't work regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 4 minutes ago, Karl G said: TL;DR - someone wants to know if Penult will work on the 2600+, and I'm hoping to find out here. My recently-released game Penult is 128K and uses DFSC bankswitching. I'm pretty sure it's the only released game to use this bankswitching format. I know that this wasn't included in the initial release, but I'm wondering if support for DFSC has been added in the first update or will be coming later? Since I know of no technical reason it couldn't be added, and the goal is to support as many homebrews as possible, I'd assume that it will be added eventually, but I don't want to tell him that unless I know for sure. To complicate matters a bit, I can't even ask anyone who bought Penult at PRGE and who also has a 2600+ to test it for me, because those first-run carts were done on a Melody board, and I'm pretty sure those won't work regardless. Do you have a none melody based cart you can supply. I'll send to the developer and he should get it working 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chad5200 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 58 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said: I'm going to ask for a build with vsync disabled. Imagine, if you will, a build where you could access the settings via a switch combination and a joystick controlled GUI... then you could try all the different settings with one build. "You may say I'm a dreamer... but I'm not the only one..." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Karl G Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 minute ago, Ben from Plaion said: Do you have a none melody based cart you can supply. I'll send to the developer and he should get it working I don't have one yet myself. Maybe @Albert could supply one, or I could send my copy once I receive it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 37 minutes ago, AtariYMás009 said: yeah, Don't listen to me, it's true, PAL games run at 50fps. As for disabling V-sync, this produces graphical anomalies in the games, so I think it is not a solution at all. These screengrabs from a 2600+ with vsync disabled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 2 minutes ago, Karl G said: I don't have one yet myself. Maybe @Albert could supply one, or I could send my copy once I receive it. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariYMás009 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said: These screengrabs from a 2600+ with vsync disabled? no, they are product of disabling vsync directly on stella in my PC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 6 minutes ago, Karl G said: I don't have one yet myself. Maybe @Albert could supply one, or I could send my copy once I receive it. I'm already sending him a package, so I can include a Penult cartridge. ..Al 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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