Incognito Cartridge Issues

[Spudster]

Recently got my hands on a bog-standard A8Pico cart and ran some XEX file tests. This cart also fails the same way as the BBPro - Boots to the menu then goes bonkers after selecting a file. Doesn't matter which Incognito mode I select (Colleen to XL/XE). Also like BBPro, cart works great in my U1MB 1200XL and lightly modded 130XE. FujiNet has no issues launching the same files on this machine.

 

At least one person has mentioned getting the A8Pico running on their Incognito-equipped 800, so I'm suspecting there's a deeper issue with my machine that's rendering it incompatible with these carts. Maybe some day when I'm feeling frisky I'll revert the machine back to stock and see if that makes a difference. Outside that, I'm at a loss as to what else to do.

 

[_The Doctor__]

Many of these carts do not take signal timing length into consideration for data transfer. The 800 cart port is slightly different spec due to ras cas rather than phi

on cart port ultimate cart gets it correct others can do the same if coded like ult and another that get it right. else

you have to modify cart slot signal with wire or upgrade needs to do this for you which some do. Some might have fixed this with a jed update or or cart boot file on SD etc

[SenorRossie]

I have an A8PicoCart working with my incognito equipped 800. All I have to do is press reset to get to the purple menu. IIRC it works both in colleen as well as in xl mode.

 

I have the 800 back in storage, but will be able to test some more at the end of next week.

Edited April 12 by SenorRossie

[Spudster]

36 minutes ago, SenorRossie said:

I have an A8PicoCart working with my incognito equipped 800. All I have to do is press reset to get to the purple menu. IIRC it works both in colleen as well as in xl mode.

 

I have the 800 back in storage, but will be able to test some more at the end of next week.

I have never had a problem getting to the menu (I initially did with the BBPro, but eventually fixed that). The current problem with both carts is neither will successfully launch a file.

 

One item I have noticed but did not mention here is that apps that use mostly text will get further than those which are all graphics. Both end up with screen corruption and a locked up 800.

[Spudster]

3 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

Many of these carts do not take signal timing length into consideration for data transfer. The 800 cart port is slightly different spec due to ras cas rather than phi

on cart port ultimate cart gets it correct others can do the same if coded like ult and another that get it right. else

you have to modify cart slot signal with wire or upgrade needs to do this for you which some do. Some might have fixed this with a jed update or or cart boot file on SD etc

Yeah, I ran across a few mentions of this, though most were in reference to not being able to get to the menu, which is not an issue I have. I’ll look into it anyway in case it may help the actual loading/running of the app, which is where all my troubles currently lie.

[Wrathchild]

Can you attach a single example of a failing xex?

6 hours ago, Spudster said:

ran some XEX file tests

 

[_The Doctor__]

Make sure all .jeds, all firmware, and all plugins are up to date.

those that report all works for them please list your running revision number of all

those that report all do not work please list your running revision number of all plus example attachments of files that failed to launch

remember not everything likes basic, pbi, high sio, SDX, or all memory extension choices.

Edited April 12 by _The Doctor__

[Spudster]

On 4/12/2024 at 1:56 PM, _The Doctor__ said:

Make sure all .jeds, all firmware, and all plugins are up to date.

those that report all works for them please list your running revision number of all

those that report all do not work please list your running revision number of all plus example attachments of files that failed to launch

remember not everything likes basic, pbi, high sio, SDX, or all memory extension choices.

Using 4.20 Incognito firmware (no plugins) on a basic “Colleen” profile with all fancy stuff disabled set to OS A.

 

Attached is the XEX I’m testing with: 3-D Tic-Tac-Toe (1979)(Atari)(US).xex

 

Here is the screenshot of the app failing with the A8Pico:

 

 

….and with the BBPro:

[Wrathchild]

Does it fail if loaded from, say, an SIO2SD device rather than the A8PicoCart?

The Pico would be responsible for loading the game but once control is passed to it, the Pico isn't involved.   

 

The game itself is doing some fun stuff with the scroll registers via the Display List interrupts:

 

      - NMI interrupt (DLI)
          7016: 69: 99 | A=05 X=F4 Y=FF (   I  ) | 41A2: 8D 04 D4          STA HSCROL
      - NMI interrupt (DLI)
          7016: 79:100 | A=0A X=F4 Y=FF (   I  ) | 41A2: 8D 04 D4          STA HSCROL
      - NMI interrupt (DLI)
          7016:104: 99 | A=0F X=F4 Y=FF (   I  ) | 41A2: 8D 04 D4          STA HSCROL
      - NMI interrupt (DLI)
          7016:114: 99 | A=05 X=F4 Y=FF (   I C) | 41A2: 8D 04 D4          STA HSCROL
      - NMI interrupt (DLI)
          7016:124:100 | A=0A X=F4 Y=FF (   I  ) | 41A2: 8D 04 D4          STA HSCROL
      - NMI interrupt (DLI)
          7016:149: 99 | A=0F X=F4 Y=FF (   I  ) | 41A2: 8D 04 D4          STA HSCROL
      - NMI interrupt (DLI)
          7016:159: 99 | A=05 X=F4 Y=FF (   I C) | 41A2: 8D 04 D4          STA HSCROL
      - NMI interrupt (DLI)
          7016:169:100 | A=0A X=F4 Y=FF (   I  ) | 41A2: 8D 04 D4          STA HSCROL
      - NMI interrupt (DLI)
          7016:194: 99 | A=0F X=F4 Y=FF (   I  ) | 41A2: 8D 04 D4          STA HSCROL
      - NMI interrupt (DLI)
          7016:204: 99 | A=05 X=F4 Y=FF (   I C) | 41A2: 8D 04 D4          STA HSCROL
      - NMI interrupt (DLI)
          7016:214:100 | A=0A X=F4 Y=FF (   I  ) | 41A2: 8D 04 D4          STA HSCROL
      - NMI interrupt (VBI)
          7016:248: 81 | A=05 X=F4 Y=FF ( V I  ) | 41CD: 8D 04 D4          STA HSCROL
      - NMI interrupt (DLI)
          7017: 69:100 | A=0A X=F4 Y=FF (   I  ) | 41A2: 8D 04 D4          STA HSCROL
      - NMI interrupt (DLI)
          7017: 79:101 | A=0F X=F4 Y=FF (   I  ) | 41A2: 8D 04 D4          STA HSCROL
      - NMI interrupt (DLI)
          7017:104: 99 | A=05 X=F4 Y=FF (   I C) | 41A2: 8D 04 D4          STA HSCROL
      - NMI interrupt (DLI)
          7017:114:100 | A=0A X=F4 Y=FF (   I  ) | 41A2: 8D 04 D4          STA HSCROL
      - NMI interrupt (DLI)
          7017:124:101 | A=0F X=F4 Y=FF (   I  ) | 41A2: 8D 04 D4          STA HSCROL
      - NMI interrupt (DLI)
          7017:149: 99 | A=05 X=F4 Y=FF (   I C) | 41A2: 8D 04 D4          STA HSCROL
      - NMI interrupt (DLI)
          7017:159:100 | A=0A X=F4 Y=FF (   I  ) | 41A2: 8D 04 D4          STA HSCROL
      - NMI interrupt (DLI)
          7017:169:101 | A=0F X=F4 Y=FF (   I  ) | 41A2: 8D 04 D4          STA HSCROL
      - NMI interrupt (DLI)
          7017:194: 99 | A=05 X=F4 Y=FF (   I C) | 41A2: 8D 04 D4          STA HSCROL
      - NMI interrupt (DLI)
          7017:204:100 | A=0A X=F4 Y=FF (   I  ) | 41A2: 8D 04 D4          STA HSCROL
      - NMI interrupt (DLI)
          7017:214:101 | A=0F X=F4 Y=FF (   I  ) | 41A2: 8D 04 D4          STA HSCROL

 

And the actual Display List is a little unconventional:

 

  4068: x3   blank 8
  406B:      mode 2 @ 0780
  406E:      mode 2
  406F:      blank.i 1
  4070:      mode C @ 4CF5
  4073:      mode 4 @ 2004
  4076:      mode C @ 4D01
  4079:      mode C
  407A:      mode.h 4 @ 2020
  407D:      mode C @ 4D1C
  4080:      mode.i C
  4081:      mode.h 4 @ 2040
  4084:      mode C @ 4D37
  4087:      mode.i C
  4088:      mode.h 4 @ 2060
  408B:      mode C @ 4D51
  408E:      mode C
  408F:      blank 4
  4090:      mode C @ 4CF5
  4093:      mode 4 @ 2084
  4096:      mode C @ 4D01
  4099:      mode.i C
  409A:      mode.h 4 @ 20A0
  409D:      mode C @ 4D1C
  40A0:      mode.i C
  40A1:      mode.h 4 @ 20C0
  40A4:      mode C @ 4D37
  40A7:      mode.i C
  40A8:      mode.h 4 @ 20E0
  40AB:      mode C @ 4D51
  40AE:      mode C
  40AF:      blank 4
  40B0:      mode C @ 4CF5
  40B3:      mode 4 @ 2104
  40B6:      mode C @ 4D01
  40B9:      mode.i C
  40BA:      mode.h 4 @ 2120
  40BD:      mode C @ 4D1C
  40C0:      mode.i C
  40C1:      mode.h 4 @ 2140
  40C4:      mode C @ 4D37
  40C7:      mode.i C
  40C8:      mode.h 4 @ 2160
  40CB:      mode C @ 4D51
  40CE:      mode C
  40CF:      blank 4
  40D0:      mode C @ 4CF5
  40D3:      mode 4 @ 2184
  40D6:      mode C @ 4D01
  40D9:      mode.i C
  40DA:      mode.h 4 @ 21A0
  40DD:      mode C @ 4D1C
  40E0:      mode.i C
  40E1:      mode.h 4 @ 21C0
  40E4:      mode C @ 4D37
  40E7:      mode.i C
  40E8:      mode.h 4 @ 21E0
  40EB:      mode C @ 4D51
  40EE:      mode C
  40EF:      waitvbl 4068

 

So I would think timing is pretty critical here and potentially there is a slight glitch when the game starts before the correct display is rendered.

This can be seen in Altirra by setting a breakpoint at the launch address (3FD3) and then using 'gv' to step a frame at a time.

I see this, or variants of, or sometimes no problem (due to using Altirra's "Randomize program load timing" setting):

 

These generally pass quickly and the user barely notices them, however I was looking at the launching of the Kangeroo prototype recently on Incognito and experienced different results in different profiles, so wonder if something locks up instead.

 

I don't know (or think he doesn't) if @phaeron has an 800 with Incognito or any idea what might be happening here? Or if anyone else with one is able to better diagnose things, e.g. with a scope.

 

[Spudster]

13 hours ago, Wrathchild said:

Does it fail if loaded from, say, an SIO2SD device rather than the A8PicoCart?

The Pico would be responsible for loading the game but once control is passed to it, the Pico isn't involved.   

No problems with either a FujiNet or via Incognito storage using the Side loader. This is only happening with an A8Pico and the BackBit Pro.

 

13 hours ago, Wrathchild said:

 

I don't know (or think he doesn't) if @phaeron has an 800 with Incognito or any idea what might be happening here? Or if anyone else with one is able to better diagnose things, e.g. with a scope.

 

I do have a scope, but my skills with using it are decades old and my circuit knowledge of Atari hardware is non-existent. I’m good at following directions though. 🙂