KainXavier Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 There are several topics (and countless posts) about compatibility with the 2600+, but I haven't seen anyone attempt to collate all of this data. So I'm going to try, because it's driving me nuts. Here's a link to what I have so far: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aUQLrCp-o0V_w9ECZOxlJVWz5nTsRRy2l75HQoozlJA/edit?usp=sharing Right now, I'm looking for feedback, hence the Commenter access. I want to nail the format down for both games and accessories before I open it up to others. This is the first time I'm using Google Sheets, and it's been a while since I've used Excel / Calc, so I'm sure the usability can be improved. (I would love to add a sort button, for example.) I'm also open to suggestions about how to handle compatibility notes and cartridge variants. (This is information that needs to be on there but too much information can affect readability.) Moreover, what about PAL-60? Should I differentiate between it and standard PAL? I kind of feel like I should. What do you think? Moving on, the game and accessory lists are incomplete and possibly inaccurate. The games I have so far are from my personal collection, and I'm largely going off of memory from when I tested everything around two weeks ago. Furthermore, I only care about compatibility with the launch firmware right now. (We can tackle the v1.1 beta together once we get v1.0 sorted.) Lastly, please do not attempt to contact me via the Google account associated with this spreadsheet. I created it specifically for this purpose, and I barely check my actual e-mail anyway. Post a response on this thread instead. Cheers, and I hope this proves useful! 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Seems like a huge undertaking. I think the first few pages of the 7800 PAL testing thread would be helpful in adding loads of lines to this. My modest contribution for 7800: Donkey Kong (NTSC) - Pass Joust (NTSC) - Pass Mario Bros (PAL) - Pass Here’s some problem 2600 games of mine: Omega Race (NTSC) - Fail (also requires Boost Grip accessory, which others have indicated isn’t supported, though apparently a Colecovision controller could be substituted if it was) Robot Tank (NTSC) - Fail (in a rare reversal, PAL version works) Some uncommon 2600 carts (NB I don’t know if these are PAL/NTSC, because there’s nothing on the labels to indicate and I haven’t seen evidence of different cart design/labels between territories, but I bought them from UK sellers): Marauder (PAL?) - Pass Stargate (PAL?) - Pass Threshold (PAL?) - Pass 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Good idea, thanks. If NTSC version of a game works, PAL60 version should work too, colors apart, until 2600+ automatically recognize the difference or an nterface is added to let people choose manually. Anyway, I would add PAL60, because nowadays many games use that format. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEANJIMMY Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) 40 minutes ago, KainXavier said: There are several topics (and countless posts) about compatibility with the 2600+, but I haven't seen anyone attempt to collate all of this data. So I'm going to try, because it's driving me nuts. Here's a link to what I have so far: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aUQLrCp-o0V_w9ECZOxlJVWz5nTsRRy2l75HQoozlJA/edit?usp=sharing Right now, I'm looking for feedback, hence the Commenter access. I want to nail the format down for both games and accessories before I open it up to others. This is the first time I'm using Google Sheets, and it's been a while since I've used Excel / Calc, so I'm sure the usability can be improved. (I would love to add a sort button, for example.) I'm also open to suggestions about how to handle compatibility notes and cartridge variants. (This is information that needs to be on there but too much information can affect readability.) Moreover, what about PAL-60? Should I differentiate between it and standard PAL? I kind of feel like I should. What do you think? Moving on, the game and accessory lists are incomplete and possibly inaccurate. The games I have so far are from my personal collection, and I'm largely going off of memory from when I tested everything around two weeks ago. Furthermore, I only care about compatibility with the launch firmware right now. (We can tackle the v1.1 beta together once we get v1.0 sorted.) Lastly, please do not attempt to contact me via the Google account associated with this spreadsheet. I created it specifically for this purpose, and I barely check my actual e-mail anyway. Post a response on this thread instead. Cheers, and I hope this proves useful! T:me Salvo NTSC 7800 fails? You are on V1.0? I guess I read somewhere it should work on V1.1? So, it would be quite a task to fill the list and the FW version needs to be added too. I could pass on a long 7800 PAL list working on V1.1 later, if wanted. Edited January 6 by DEANJIMMY 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Well, at least for the 2600, there are rules which define what works and what not. E.g. the bankswitching format has to be supported by the dumper. And the controller has to be supported by the RetroArch implementation which uses Stella. All other games cannot work. Simple. However, as it turned out, the dumper quite frequently fails on carts which are supposed to be working. And, to make things more complicated, not for everyone, not for every cart. So, one could create a list from the theoretically functioning and non functioning games. And then all games which (sometimes) do not work, even though they should, could be marked. But what does that help? Some games marked non-working may work for others. And even some game marked as worked for all (so far), may not work for others. Also, for each game reported as non-working, are we sure the cart is still working? Or was the cart cleaned sufficiently? Overall, IMO such lists are more irritating than providing help. BTW: The list only makes sense in relation to a firmware update. The current official one is still 1.0. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanner Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 We should have feedback on what joysticks work with too so a spreadsheet for it so users can add the joystick they tried so we know what ones work and what ones don't, good idea..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KainXavier Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 2 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: So, one could create a list from the theoretically functioning and non functioning games. And then all games which (sometimes) do not work, even though they should, could be marked. But what does that help? Some games marked non-working may work for others. And even some game marked as worked for all (so far), may not work for others. Also, for each game reported as non-working, are we sure the cart is still working? Or was the cart cleaned sufficiently? Overall, IMO such lists are more irritating than providing help. BTW: The list only makes sense in relation to a firmware update. The current official one is still 1.0. I don't doubt that we'll run into the issues you've mentioned, but I still feel like we need some kind of user-moderated list, especially for homebrew. My hope is that we'll be able to come to a general consensus about what does and doesn't work with a large enough sample size. I suppose I could also implement some best practices. How about this? Any failures or incompatibilities observed must be reported here and tested on real hardware before altering the spreadsheet. Any conflicting reports will require the users to post photos of their cartridges so we can establish they are one in the same. 33 minutes ago, Spanner said: We should have feedback on what joysticks work with too so a spreadsheet for it so users can add the joystick they tried so we know what ones work and what ones don't, good idea..? I agree. There's an Accessories sheet included. You can switch between the lists at the bottom. @Sean_1970 Thanks, I'll add some of those to the list when I update it tonight. Were you able to test on real hardware as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buescherking Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) PLEASE Note! The following findings are for the newer Version 1.1 firmware! Here are my findings (All NTSC) for firmware ver 1.1 7800 games that work: Slideboy in Mazeland Working, Keystone Koppers Working, Dragons Descent Working, Wizards Dungeon Working, Time Salvo Working, BnQ Working, Dungeon Stalker Working, Scramble Working, Pac-Man Collection 40th Anniv Edition Working, Dragons Havoc Working, UniWars Working, Moon Cresta Working, Knight Guy in Castle Days Working. 2600 Homebrew Circus Convoy Working. 7800 Games that did not work: Attack of the Petscii Robots, Popeye (7800 Homebrew). As far as Popeye it went through the Demo mode well but as soon as you start the game it would hang, Petscii Robots fails to load. 2600 Homebrews Not Working: Deepstone Catacomb Not Working (Title Screen Hangs), Cave In Not Working Won't Load. That's it for now Edited January 6 by buescherking Added info 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 17 minutes ago, KainXavier said: @Sean_1970 Thanks, I'll add some of those to the list when I update it tonight. Were you able to test on real hardware as well? No, I haven’t touched an original VCS since the mid 80s I think 😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astroguy Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 The spreadsheet compatibility list is a great idea and I'm willing to contribute. I now have a working 16-in-1 cart that simulates 2600 carts using a Raspberry Pico so I can test a large number of games, including home brews and demos. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chad5200 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 I would base this list on the latest beta 1.1 and continue to update it as new beta or official firmware are released. Maybe have version columns where you could show things like "Circus Convoy on 1.00 = Fail, Circus Convoy on 1.1 beta = Pass" Would be more valuable to the community and to Plaion themselves if the data was based on latest public (or semi-public as is the case with 1.1 beta) firmware releases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Kind of annoys me that you feel the need to do this, but thats my problem! 😁 Thanks alot for taking the time to do this and I will contributing. Thing is my lists I never really knew for certain whether my cart was PAL or NTSC. I did start doing it but it was a waste of time because I knew that for many carts I didnt know one way or the other which format the it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astroguy Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 My recommendation is to have separate locked sheets for 2600, 7800 and hardware. Then have an unlocked fourth sheet for community input. This gives a way of accepting and curating input. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susy Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Good evening everyone. It's my first post and I apologize right away for my really poor English. I haven't installed the beta firmware yet since my entire collection is made up of PAL cartridges and they all work decently. The only cartridge that gives me problems is Pitfall SECAM version: the game works but it is in black and white (except the main character, HIRO, who is perfectly colored). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KainXavier Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 (edited) @buescherking Thank you for the list! I'm not ready to add games for the beta firmware yet. I also plan on eventually opening up the list so everyone can add their own results. Trying to enter them all myself would not be very feasible. 12 hours ago, Sean_1970 said: No, I haven’t touched an original VCS since the mid 80s I think 😅 Okay, I can add the passes for you, but I'd like to test any failures / incompatibilities on real hardware before adding them to the spreadsheet. This will help rule out defective carts. 8 hours ago, astroguy said: The spreadsheet compatibility list is a great idea and I'm willing to contribute. I now have a working 16-in-1 cart that simulates 2600 carts using a Raspberry Pico so I can test a large number of games, including home brews and demos. I'm apprehensive about using flash carts to simulate real hardware as there have already been differences observed. (The Hokey sound chip issue comes to mind.) That said, flash cart compatibility should definitely be tracked, and the results could go under the Accessories sheet. More traditional multi-carts, the non-flashable ones, could go under the Games sheet. Also, thank you for the idea of incorporating locked sheets! I could add an Unconfirmed sheet and allow people to edit that and then add them to the locked sheets after two or more people post the same result. I'll play around with the idea in a few hours. 6 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said: Kind of annoys me that you feel the need to do this, but thats my problem! 😁 Thanks alot for taking the time to do this and I will contributing. Thing is my lists I never really knew for certain whether my cart was PAL or NTSC. I did start doing it but it was a waste of time because I knew that for many carts I didnt know one way or the other which format the it was. No it's a fair criticism but please know it wasn't my intention to annoy you. Trying to keep track of everything everyone has ever said about compatibility is too big of a task for one person, and you, Albert, and the rest of the team have other duties besides that. I'm just trying to help (and appease my obsessive-compulsive, hyper-focused tendencies). The task may very well prove to be infeasible, but I feel like a community-driven spreadsheet is a good idea. I've seen it work in other online communities at least. Also, I'm not trying to replace the official list. I'll make that clear once I revise the spreadsheet. @chad5200 I'll add sheets for the v1.1 beta once I get the formatting settled. I don't want things to become unwieldy. That and there could be multiple betas. To that note, does anyone know of a way of grouping sheets together in Google Sheets aside from making them the same color? @susy One, welcome to the forum! I hope you enjoy it as much as I have. Two, I think this is first time I've seen anyone post about SECAM compatibility. Thanks for that! I'll make sure to note it. Okay, that should cover everyone. Dinner now and then I'll post again once I've updated the spreadsheet! Edited January 7 by KainXavier 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astroguy Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 30 minutes ago, KainXavier said: I'm apprehensive about using flash carts to simulate real hardware as there have already been differences observed. (The Hokey sound chip issue comes to mind.) That said, flash cart compatibility should definitely be tracked, and the results could go under the Accessories sheet. More traditional multi-carts, the non-flashable ones, could go under the Games sheet. I'll note that I'm not attempting to simulate a hokey/pokey. The Pico is a substitute for a 27C512 and the two behave very closely to each other when examined with an oscilloscope. I did my testing with real cartridges, EEPROMs and the Pico to validate timing when attached to the 2600+. My specific interest was playing and testing home brews. However, if the results aren't wanted or there is no interest that's okay. and I can always follow the teachings of Blender and add my own sheet, with blackjack and hookers. 🙂 30 minutes ago, KainXavier said: Also, thank you for the idea of incorporating locked sheets! I could add an Unconfirmed sheet and allow people to edit that and then add them to the locked sheets after two or more people post the same result. I'll play around with the idea in a few hours. Glad to help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 I should note that the failure, issues I’m having are known problems and not unique to me. Omega Race has a special chip that the 1.0 firmware doesn’t read and 1.1 does, however the special controller required isn’t detected by the system. You really should read through various testing threads and the beta firmware one as all this is in a state of flux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KainXavier Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 (edited) 6 hours ago, astroguy said: I'll note that I'm not attempting to simulate a hokey/pokey. The Pico is a substitute for a 27C512 and the two behave very closely to each other when examined with an oscilloscope. I did my testing with real cartridges, EEPROMs and the Pico to validate timing when attached to the 2600+. My specific interest was playing and testing home brews. However, if the results aren't wanted or there is no interest that's okay. and I can always follow the teachings of Blender and add my own sheet, with blackjack and hookers. 🙂 Glad to help. Okay, you've convinced me. See my comments below. 5 hours ago, Sean_1970 said: I should note that the failure, issues I’m having are known problems and not unique to me. Omega Race has a special chip that the 1.0 firmware doesn’t read and 1.1 does, however the special controller required isn’t detected by the system. You really should read through various testing threads and the beta firmware one as all this is in a state of flux. I'm aware, that's part of why I wanted to create this spreadsheet. That said, I've changed my position on excluding beta firmware results. See below. So! I tried my best to take everyone's comments and concerns into consideration, and I've rethought my approach. Please take a look at the updated spreadsheet here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aUQLrCp-o0V_w9ECZOxlJVWz5nTsRRy2l75HQoozlJA/edit?usp=sharing Each entry will now represent a specific region and/or firmware combination that has either a pass, fail, or mixed result. I also added additional fields and instructions to better improve the data. Certain aspects of the spreadsheet have been locked down, but I've opened up the Games and Accessories sheets so everyone can start adding their results. It's not a looker, but it should be (mostly) functional. Just avoid sorting or filtering the data for now. Again, avoid sorting and filtering the data! It can screw things with up with multiple users. I'll add safe-guards to address that soon. Hopefully, some time tomorrow. Also, I need to re-enter my own results and add the ones I mentioned I would. I'll get to it. I just need a break for tonight. Besides the safe-guards, I plan on creating a Results page which will reference the data in the Games and Accessories sheets and (hopefully) provide some interesting numbers. The text and dropdown menu options could also use some zhuzhing. Lastly, let me know if anything's broken or if there's something that should be locked down but isn't! Thanks! Edited January 7 by KainXavier 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KainXavier Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 No major changes today. Just a lot of data entry. I re-tested every game I own on v1.0, and I plan to update to the v1.1 beta after this post. I'll try to tackle the sorting issue tomorrow but I may have to push it back another day. @Sean_1970 I added the games you mentioned, but I forgot to ask if those results were from v1.0, the v1.1 beta, or both? @AtariYMás009 Thank you for adding your results! I love that there's a multi-cart on there! Also, I love that you described every cart, and I decided to do the same for my own! (I came across one or two label variants that aren't in AtariAge's Rarity Guide.) @susy I added your Pitfall result to the sheet. That's super weird that only the player character is rendered in color! You'd think other sprites, such as enemies, would be too. -- On a different note, re-testing my games resulted in two new observations: The Donkey Kong cart I own has "Rev B" printed on the circuit board. The traces appear to be the same as my "Rev C" Donkey Kong Jr. cart. Both work on the 2600+ and both are in the white Coleco clam shells. The Driving Controller actually works on Indy 500 XE! It just controls terribly. (You have to crank that sucker almost 180 degrees to just turn 15 in game.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 1 hour ago, KainXavier said: No major changes today. Just a lot of data entry. I re-tested every game I own on v1.0, and I plan to update to the v1.1 beta after this post. I'll try to tackle the sorting issue tomorrow but I may have to push it back another day. @Sean_1970 I added the games you mentioned, but I forgot to ask if those results were from v1.0, the v1.1 beta, or both? @AtariYMás009 Thank you for adding your results! I love that there's a multi-cart on there! Also, I love that you described every cart, and I decided to do the same for my own! (I came across one or two label variants that aren't in AtariAge's Rarity Guide.) @susy I added your Pitfall result to the sheet. That's super weird that only the player character is rendered in color! You'd think other sprites, such as enemies, would be too. -- On a different note, re-testing my games resulted in two new observations: The Donkey Kong cart I own has "Rev B" printed on the circuit board. The traces appear to be the same as my "Rev C" Donkey Kong Jr. cart. Both work on the 2600+ and both are in the white Coleco clam shells. The Driving Controller actually works on Indy 500 XE! It just controls terribly. (You have to crank that sucker almost 180 degrees to just turn 15 in game.) 1.0. Even if I had the kit required to install the beta, I wouldn’t as I only have a couple of games with issues and it doesn’t fix either of them at this point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KainXavier Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 (edited) You can now sort the lists without breaking anything. (The solution was a lot simpler than I thought.) I also added a dynamic hyperlink at the top of the Games sheet to jump to the next empty row for easier data entry. (You have to click on "Name" instead of "Platform" because Google Sheets is being wonky and ignoring a perfectly valid formula.) Edit: I'll add one to the Accessories sheet tomorrow. Querying string fields is not working how I expected it to. Edited January 9 by KainXavier Sleep deprivation make brain no worky. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susy Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 On 6/1/2024 at 21:36, susy said: Buona sera a tutti. È il mio primo post e mi scuso subito per il mio inglese veramente scarso. Non ho ancora installato il firmware beta poiché tutta la mia collezione è composta da cartucce PAL e funzionano tutte decentemente. L'unica cartuccia che mi dà problemi è la versione Pitfall SECAM: il gioco funziona ma è in bianco e nero (tranne il personaggio principale, HIRO, che è perfettamente colorato). I realized I made a typo in the previous post. The cart seen in black/white (SECAM) is not Pitfall but rather H.I.R.O. My Pitfall is PAL and it's perfect. Sorry 😊 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tradyblix Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) Juno First has issues with it's Title Screen and Music speed on Title Screen. That should be added to the notes. Double Dragon 7800 (activision, white label) can be added with "Fail". Boots to black screen atm. I personally think you'd get a lot better results if you just opened this up for the public (i.e., us) to update. Edited January 9 by tradyblix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KainXavier Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 (edited) 21 hours ago, susy said: I realized I made a typo in the previous post. The cart seen in black/white (SECAM) is not Pitfall but rather H.I.R.O. My Pitfall is PAL and it's perfect. Sorry 😊 Thank you for clarifying! It looks like you've updated the spreadsheet already. I added your Pitfall result as well. I hope that was okay. 15 hours ago, tradyblix said: Juno First has issues with it's Title Screen and Music speed on Title Screen. That should be added to the notes. Double Dragon 7800 (activision, white label) can be added with "Fail". Boots to black screen atm. I personally think you'd get a lot better results if you just opened this up for the public (i.e., us) to update. Ah, the logo did seem patch-ier than I remember. I'll double-check the music tomorrow. Also, the spreadsheet is open to the public to update. I can add your results for Double Dragon if you want, though. I just need to know which firmware and what region. -- Speaking of the spreadsheet, the update I planned for tonight will have to wait. I forgot I have an appointment if 5 hours so I should probably get some sleep. 😛 Edited January 10 by KainXavier 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane857 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Gorf (PAL) works and plays fine on the 2600+. Was unplayable on my light sixer with composite mod,because display kept going black Does this game have an issue with a composite modded 2600? 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.