Milan 040 question about price evaluation

[indianatigre]

I found a seller who offers me a milan 040 complete and a falcon 030. 
the price is so high. 
I'm not interested in the Milan 040.
So I wanted to buy the lot and then recover some money
by selling the Milan 040. 
But it only makes sense if the Milan 040 
has a valuation like the Falcon. 
Unfortunately I couldn't find any information. 
does anyone have an idea about this?

[anzac]

What a weird coincidence, I was just checking the Milan webpage yesterday…

 

as for the question, would it not be easier to buy just a Falcon?

[indianatigre]

7 minutes ago, anzac said:

What a weird coincidence, I was just checking the Milan webpage yesterday…

 

as for the question, would it not be easier to buy just a Falcon?

yes but the seller sold only a entire lot

[anzac]

I don’t know where you are located but there are more Falcons for sale… especially in Europe if that’s the case 

 

this seller seems to be asking a lot by your description and keeping the lot together. So maybe another seller with just a Falcon would be better?

[indianatigre]

6 minutes ago, anzac said:

I don’t know where you are located but there are more Falcons for sale… especially in Europe if that’s the case 

 

this seller seems to be asking a lot by your description and keeping the lot together. So maybe another seller with just a Falcon would be better?

Sure it could be a solution but the prices are very high. 
If I could have recovered by selling the Milan 040 
it would have been a much better purchase.

[anzac]

Let me see if I get this straight 

 

you want a Falcon but you think they are too expensive right now. A machine that has a market and demand.

 

so you want to lessen that by buying a Milan that has almost no offers, maybe one or two extreme collectors that might be interested and selling the Milan for a high price (the thing you don’t like about the Falcon offers)

 

seems convoluted to me but it’s just my opinion 

[as...]

Milan 040 is ultra very rare.

I have only 2 hades 060 and several falcons (fx1 rules!) plus many Atari 8 bit.

 

I will be happy to buy a Milan

 

 

[mikro]

I'd also buy a Milan (for development / compatibility check purposes) but I'd certainly not pay more than 400 EUR for it.  It's doesn't look nice, it doesn't offer anything above what Aranym, FireBee or V4 offers and it's basically just a PC with m68k inside.

 

@as...: if you by "ultra very rare" mean that nobody wanted them after their 5 minutes of fame and most likely trashed them in the bin afterwards then yes, they are very rare.

 

@anzac: indeed, it's funny how people are complaining about high prices only if they are on the buyers side.  

Edited January 12 by mikro

[Atari74user]

Both Milan and Hades are among the rarest of the pure TOS based clones.  Much more rare than Falcons, because ultimately their purpose was to keep the declining TOS market alive for the 'power TOS user', a tall order given the advent of the PC at that time.  They shared a similar fate than that of the Falcon, only that Atari was a much bigger company, so had more manufacturing power, but they all ultimately lost out to the PC.

I was fortunate to be given a nice example of a Hades 060, but have seen both the Milan and Hades sell for pretty high prices, but not as much as the Falcon (eBay ludicrousness aside).

 

Either way, they are special TOS machines, and depending on what you have installed, out perform a CT60 based Falcon.  All things said, the last time I saw something like a Milan or Hades sold, it went for circa €1400, but hey, that's just a marker as an example.

Edited January 12 by Atari74user

[lp060]

The hades didn't lose to the PC. It was behind when it started. Production ceased when chips critical to production were no longer available. That's when Fredi decided to stop production. I purchased mine directly from Fredi and about a month or two later I tried to buy another one. He wrote me back and said production stopped due to parts shortages.

Edited January 12 by lp060

[Atari74user]

That is a fair point, I actually have been meaning to ask you, not necessarily wanting to completely hijack the thread, do you have any idea of Hades numbers, I was looking at my serial, and was curious, being E55M1010, I appreciate english Hades TOS 55, but after that have found different letters and numbers, and wondered what they align to?

Edited January 12 by Atari74user

[lp060]

I'm not sure how Fredi's numbering scheme worked. I think only Fredi can answer that question.

[Atari74user]

Appreciated, thanks for the reply! . Interesting you bought directly from Fredi, and what say about stopping production, I believe I have read that somewhere, maybe from yourself and the last of motherboards etc...  Mine appears relatively late, not sure just how late. but TOS 55 I guess is an indication , but I know mine has gone back to Fredi at some point, so not sure what may have been updated.  Unfortunately I can't see the versions of PCIMAIN and RAMROM.  Anyway, enough hijacking from me.

Edited January 12 by Atari74user

[mikro]

Neither Hades nor Milan outperform CT60 Falcon. Its 060 is clocked at a lower speed, bus access is less efficient and RAM access is also slower. The only category where they shine is accelerated graphics thanks to Milan VDI and NOVA VDI but then again, you can install NOVA also in Falcon.

[leech]

I always wanted a Milan or Hades... never could afford them when they were in production, not to mention ordering to the USA...

These days, I think it'd be sweet for someone to try and make a clone, maybe based on the Apollo Core...

[Zogging Hell]

6 hours ago, mikro said:

Neither Hades nor Milan outperform CT60 Falcon. Its 060 is clocked at a lower speed, bus access is less efficient and RAM access is also slower. The only category where they shine is accelerated graphics thanks to Milan VDI and NOVA VDI but then again, you can install NOVA also in Falcon.

That does make a big difference though, proper true colour at 1024 x 768 with no slow down was a god send on the Atari in the late nineties, and to get the Falcon to better specs now usually requires it to go a bit 'Heath Robinson' with bits hanging out of it all over the place and using just as many 'PC' components. I for one thought the Milan was great, GEM software pretty much just worked out of the box, but better, and I would have happily bought the Milan II if it had been released. It felt like an Atari to me anyway. It is certainly never going in the bin...

[leech]

1 hour ago, Zogging Hell said:

That does make a big difference though, proper true colour at 1024 x 768 with no slow down was a god send on the Atari in the late nineties, and to get the Falcon to better specs now usually requires it to go a bit 'Heath Robinson' with bits hanging out of it all over the place and using just as many 'PC' components. I for one thought the Milan was great, GEM software pretty much just worked out of the box, but better, and I would have happily bought the Milan II if it had been released. It felt like an Atari to me anyway. It is certainly never going in the bin...

Yeah, I wish someone would come up with a tower kit (I have the rack kit, but don't have a rack to really put it in) as the SV+CT60e doesn't really fit nicely inside the original case... at least without taking a dremel to it!

[Atari74user]

On 1/14/2024 at 3:27 PM, mikro said:

Neither Hades nor Milan outperform CT60 Falcon. Its 060 is clocked at a lower speed, bus access is less efficient and RAM access is also slower. The only category where they shine is accelerated graphics thanks to Milan VDI and NOVA VDI but then again, you can install NOVA also in Falcon.

This is true, Falcon CT60 can be clocked higher, but as you state, graphics card support is easier and very good on the Hades, also twice as much memory can be had on the Hades, so as I allude, depends what you have installed, and as you say, depends on clock on the CT60.  The Hades certainly can out perform a CT60, depending on the variables, it out performs my CT60, but I don't want to push my CT60 to 100 MHz, so it depends.  It would be nice to compare both fully ladened and turned up to max volume, for Hades I guess that would be an 8mb ATI Range Pro and 1gb of EDO RAM, that would be interesting to see.

Edited January 15 by Atari74user

[TheNameOfTheGame]

1 hour ago, Atari74user said:

This is true, Falcon CT60 can be clocked higher, but as you state, graphics card support is easier and very good on the Hades, also twice as much memory can be had on the Hades, so as I allude, depends what you have installed, and as you say, depends on clock on the CT60.  The Hades certainly can out perform a CT60, depending on the variables, it out performs my CT60, but I don't want to push my CT60 to 100 MHz, so it depends.  It would be nice to compare both fully ladened and turned up to max volume, for Hades I guess that would be an 8mb ATI Range Pro and 1gb of EDO RAM, that would be interesting to see.

Off-topic but do you by any chance have the PCI sound card working in your Hades?

[Atari74user]

1 hour ago, TheNameOfTheGame said:

Off-topic but do you by any chance have the PCI sound card working in your Hades?

To be honest I have been pretty lazy with the Hades for a little while, I did get a cheap ES1371 but have yet to install it to see if I can get it working.  In fact, you have now reminded me.  It sounds like you have tried?

[Zogging Hell]

23 hours ago, leech said:

Yeah, I wish someone would come up with a tower kit (I have the rack kit, but don't have a rack to really put it in) as the SV+CT60e doesn't really fit nicely inside the original case... at least without taking a dremel to it!

I'd prefer a 'desktopper' style top that fits on the original Falcon base myself (or a genius to come up with a CT60/ Ethernat/ Supervidel all in one combo that is small enough to fit in a real case and can fit all its ouputs through the holes left by the PSU removal). Something tall enough to fit a decent PSU in there.. I've heard some confidence draining things about the Pico PSU to slightly fear using it, so have a ATX psu trailing out the back.. The problem with the tower cases is the Falcon has ports all round it, and no matter what you do something will not be easily reachable (like the cartridge port)

[TheNameOfTheGame]

1 hour ago, Atari74user said:

To be honest I have been pretty lazy with the Hades for a little while, I did get a cheap ES1371 but have yet to install it to see if I can get it working.  In fact, you have now reminded me.  It sounds like you have tried?

Oh yeah, myself and a couple of others  Haven't been successful yet.  Always hoping someone can figure it out :).

[leech]

2 hours ago, Zogging Hell said:

I'd prefer a 'desktopper' style top that fits on the original Falcon base myself (or a genius to come up with a CT60/ Ethernat/ Supervidel all in one combo that is small enough to fit in a real case and can fit all its ouputs through the holes left by the PSU removal). Something tall enough to fit a decent PSU in there.. I've heard some confidence draining things about the Pico PSU to slightly fear using it, so have a ATX psu trailing out the back.. The problem with the tower cases is the Falcon has ports all round it, and no matter what you do something will not be easily reachable (like the cartridge port)

Outside of the Floppy Drive, there isn't anything on the right side of it though, right?  And that would be rerouted to the front of the tower.  The motherboard would just sit on the opposite side of a typical tower.  Then again, the rack mount kit I have reroutes the cartridge / midi ports as well.

[mikro]

11 hours ago, TheNameOfTheGame said:

Oh yeah, myself and a couple of others  Haven't been successful yet.  Always hoping someone can figure it out :).

Fingers crossed, guys. I'd love to find someone with working sound on Hades to make sure that my XBIOS routines work properly there (they should but you never know).

[TheNameOfTheGame]

I think either @lp060 or @alanh had sound working at some point in the past.  I know lp's Hades machines are non-functional and the drives inaccessible and last I heard alanh had 2 Hades back working but haven't checked with him if his sound is working?  I think lp is the best chance to figure this out if his drive(s) could be cloned so the files could be checked.  But I think he's hesitant to mess with them for fear of breaking them.