shane857 Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 I have noticed when playing quest for quintana roo, when entering temple rooms if there is more than one snake on screen they both become transparent and one sprite vanishes for a second. Is this normal? My original 2600 is in storage so unable to test. 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinite.pies Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 18 minutes ago, shane857 said: I have noticed when playing quest for quintana roo, when entering temple rooms if there is more than one snake on screen they both become transparent and one sprite vanishes for a second. Is this normal? My original 2600 is in storage so unable to test. 🤔 I do get something similar with the new Mr Run and Jump game. With more than one sprite on screen, they are semi-transparent and shimmer. I was under the impression that it's my display that causes it. I can make them a bit less transparent by changing the display settings, but I can't get rid of the effect altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane857 Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 2 minutes ago, infinite.pies said: I do get something similar with the new Mr Run and Jump game. With more than one sprite on screen, they are semi-transparent and shimmer. I was under the impression that it's my display that causes it. I can make them a bit less transparent by changing the display settings, but I can't get rid of the effect altogether. No you can't get rid of it altogether. All I know is Atari games do flicker with more than a few sprites on screen with the original 2600 so I guess the 2600+ has similar issues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Stamos Mullet Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 (edited) 16 minutes ago, shane857 said: No you can't get rid of it altogether. All I know is Atari games do flicker with more than a few sprites on screen with the original 2600 so I guess the 2600+ has similar issues. It's not an issue. It's how the games were coded. This was done so that multiple independently moving sprites can be displayed at once by showing on alternating Hz cycles. It's not a bug. It's a feature. Edited February 10 by John Stamos Mullet 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeM_ Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 21 minutes ago, infinite.pies said: I do get something similar with the new Mr Run and Jump game. With more than one sprite on screen, they are semi-transparent and shimmer. I was under the impression that it's my display that causes it. I can make them a bit less transparent by changing the display settings, but I can't get rid of the effect altogether. This is a programming technique that allows more than the maximum number of sprites on the screen at once. It essentially turns off at one location and on at another. It does it fast enough to simulate more sprites, but not so fast that you can’t see the flicker. in other words, it’s normal. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz0red Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 (edited) 20 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said: It's not an issue. It's how the games were coded. This was done so that multiple independently moving sprites can be displayed at once. It's not a bug. It's a feature. The current video driver will periodically skip the display of some frames. The frame is executed, but isn’t rendered. We have a preliminary build that resolves this (along with a performance increase). This was the cause of disappearing ghosts in PAL Ms. Pac (50hz), etc. So, while the flicker is expected, there are also issues with disappearing sprites (more noticeable on games that have flicker). Chris. Edited February 10 by raz0red 6 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Stamos Mullet Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 11 minutes ago, raz0red said: The current video driver will periodically skip the display of some frames. The frame is executed, but isn’t rendered. We have a preliminary build that resolves this (along with a performance increase). This was the cause of disappearing ghosts in PAL Ms. Pac (50hz), etc. Chris. I was referring more to the 30 hz flicker rates for sprites that were intentionally coded into the games. I realize that getting this to display the same way on a 60hz progressive HDMI signal requires some additional emulation software acrobatics. But the flicker is there because of the limitations of the 2600 originally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz0red Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 1 minute ago, John Stamos Mullet said: I was referring more to the 30 hz flicker rates for sprites that were intentionally coded into the games. I realize that getting this to display the same way on a 60hz progressive HDMI signal requires some additional emulation software acrobatics. But the flicker is there because of the limitations of the 2600 originally. Yeah, understood. I was just pointing out that reports of missing sprites are accurate based on the current driver. In other words, the flicker isn’t necessarily accurate with the current driver which leads to missing sprites. Chris. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinite.pies Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 11 minutes ago, raz0red said: The current video driver will periodically skip the display of some frames. The frame is executed, but isn’t rendered. We have a preliminary build that resolves this (along with a performance increase). This was the cause of disappearing ghosts in PAL Ms. Pac, etc. Chris. That's great news. I can't wait to try this out. Interestingly, I can currently (almost) use my iPad as a screen for the 2600+, but the sprites that shimmer on my main display are completely absent on the iPad. I wonder if this update will resolve this? If so, this would be a fantastic bonus, and will turn the 2600+ into a great portable machine! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucienEn Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 22 hours ago, raz0red said: Yeah, understood. I was just pointing out that reports of missing sprites are accurate based on the current driver. In other words, the flicker isn’t necessarily accurate with the current driver which leads to missing sprites. Chris. I assume that's PAL only or some units, since I see no missing sprites on NTSC with this 1.1 beta playing Jump & Run. They all flicker evenly as expected and I tried several levels:-). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz0red Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 Just now, lucienEn said: I assume that's PAL only or some units, since I see no missing sprites on NTSC with this 1.1 beta playing Jump & Run. They all flicker evenly as expected and I tried several levels:-). It actually depends on the game. I was seeing lots of missing sprites on the NTSC version of Space Rocks that was running at 60FPS. Chris. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucienEn Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 (edited) 23 hours ago, infinite.pies said: That's great news. I can't wait to try this out. Interestingly, I can currently (almost) use my iPad as a screen for the 2600+, but the sprites that shimmer on my main display are completely absent on the iPad. I wonder if this update will resolve this? If so, this would be a fantastic bonus, and will turn the 2600+ into a great portable machine! I wouldn't think that's related to the update, that's more the display input settings unless this is PAL? Digressing from this thread, lot more portable obviously without 2600+ and using the Stella emulator with a joystick (I have the StellaAdapter which works great on Surface Go devices incl. the latest wireless one, probably Apple devices too, not sure). But to be clear I don't want to distract this thread with another topic, unless this beta is really causing that:-). Edited February 11 by lucienEn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane857 Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 24 minutes ago, raz0red said: It actually depends on the game. I was seeing lots of missing sprites on the NTSC version of Space Rocks that was running at 60FPS. Chris. Emulation is not perfect. Neither was actual hardware! 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz0red Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 (edited) 3 minutes ago, shane857 said: Emulation is not perfect. Neither was actual hardware! 😂 Sure, but with the video driver fix, the sprites are now appearing as they should. The current implementation uses a threaded video driver and texture that is much larger than necessary. Additionally, the threaded portion is more complex than it needs to be for the 2600+. This causes it to miss frames periodically, thus missing sprites. Chris. Edited February 11 by raz0red 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane857 Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 1 minute ago, raz0red said: Sure, but with the video driver fix, the sprites are now appearing as they should. The current implementation uses a threaded video driver and blits a texture that is much larger than necessary. Additionally, the threaded portion is more complex than it needs to be for the 2600+. This causes it to miss frames periodically, thus missing sprites. Chris. The Atari 2600 is not particularly a complex machine by todays standards. Back in the day thou... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorkbot Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 On 2/10/2024 at 4:22 PM, raz0red said: The current video driver will periodically skip the display of some frames. The frame is executed, but isn’t rendered. We have a preliminary build that resolves this (along with a performance increase). Well that sounds like an excellent firmware upgrade. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetmanUK Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Really enjoy hearing about the upgrades that are in progress, thanks to everyone who is hard at work in this. We all really really appreciate it. 😊👍🏻 An annoying question, sorry to ask it... Is the next build far off? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dionoid Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 15 hours ago, raz0red said: Sure, but with the video driver fix, the sprites are now appearing as they should. The current implementation uses a threaded video driver and texture that is much larger than necessary. Additionally, the threaded portion is more complex than it needs to be for the 2600+. This causes it to miss frames periodically, thus missing sprites. Really looking forward to the update with the video driver fix. Will that update also bring back the 50Hz video output for PAL games? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane857 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 1 hour ago, Dionoid said: Really looking forward to the update with the video driver fix. Will that update also bring back the 50Hz video output for PAL games? And also, would it be possible to add save states? 🤔 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEANJIMMY Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 3 minutes ago, shane857 said: And also, would it be possible to add save states? 🤔 And palette A for 7800 PAL games, please😊 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Stamos Mullet Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 9 minutes ago, shane857 said: And also, would it be possible to add save states? 🤔 Let’s get the games working correctly first. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Stamos Mullet Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 On 2/10/2024 at 4:22 PM, raz0red said: We have a preliminary build that resolves this (along with a performance increase). Chris. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vebxenon Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 On 2/8/2024 at 10:02 PM, DEANJIMMY said: Yes, all games work, which is great😊 But I have an issue with the color palette for Commando and Galaga PAL. The brown ground in Commando gets a green touch and the green fighters in Galaga a yellow touch on V1.1 Rev2. I guess the change of the color palette for Xevious PAL caused it? Xevious had the wrong colors on V1.0 and V1.1 Rev1. It was brown but not green. The situation for Xevious improved a lot by the new palette (please scroll up a bit to see some pictures). But some other games like Commando and Galaga had better colors before the change. Hope it can be reverted back and only Xevious gets different color palette🤔 Did you notice something similar? Hi! I didn't notice anything strange on Galaga, and I don't have Commando on my collection. But yes, Xevious looks great now! Sorry for the delay 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariNerd Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) Which games have issues on the Jr. Model? Get those working, if possible and if they aren't already, just to peeve a select few of the nay-sayers. Edited February 12 by AtariNerd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEANJIMMY Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) 56 minutes ago, vebxenon said: Hi! I didn't notice anything strange on Galaga, and I don't have Commando on my collection. But yes, Xevious looks great now! Sorry for the delay 🙂 Xevious looks better but not like the original. Even the title screen should have a green background. Galaga should have red, blue and green enemies. 1st pic how it should be 2nd picture is Rev2 Edited February 12 by DEANJIMMY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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