can you still start playing a game without pressing the 800xl's actual START button?

[newTIboyRob]

Sounds silly, but maybe there is still some way here?

 

Recently got my 800 xl back from repair. Turns out that the HELP key and START keys are still missing inner spring/s, thus do not work. [I can get around the nonfunctioning HELP key by referring to PDF documentation rather than on screen info within programs, and for restarting a game, I can just power on and off the Atari.] But, my question:

 

I loaded Pitfall, but that game and others requires pressing the actual START key to begin. Without any inside tinkering, is there any way to start games that usually require pressing the keyboard's actual START button?  For example, can you do anything on the outside of the keyboard, or insert the edge of say an index card down in the cracks or something like that?  Any ideas, or am I cooked?

 

Thanks

[_The Doctor__]

Install the springs. Most games would wipe out a software remap of the keys. No way to use and index card to press anything between the keys.

[Beeblebrox]

I am a little surprised that the person you have paid to repair this computer (whatever other issue it had), hasn't also fixed the keyboard. 

If no other key issues are present, best course of action is to either source said missing springs, or get another keyboard. There are 5 x different xl keyboards which are compatible with the 800xl, and 600xl.

 

See:

 

[Rybags]

Console keys can't be remapped.  Games could be patched but the effort isn't worth it.

[newTIboyRob]

@Beeblebrox ... actually he did quite a nice job by installing a whole brand new mylar. He himself couldn't find those key springs, and shipped it back prior to my finding someone else who did have the springs. But now that all the keys minus START and HELP are working, @_The Doctor__ I am plain just too chicken to tinker around with the springs by opening her up again and risking something going awry. I am not a typical gamer, so, basically I'm agreeing with @Rybags and deciding that it just wouldn't be worth it with any other way here. If I do want to play games, I will move the Sdrive over to my 600XL. (I was just trying to see if there was a way on this incomplete 800XL, but just as I imagined, looks like there really isn't any feasible way.)

Edited February 11 by newTIboyRob

[+kheller2]

you can replace the springs w/o opening the keyboard.  You can pop off the keycap and then gently pull out the inner square plunger.  Lining the two springs back up when you put it together can be challenging, but very possible.  I'm sure someone can send you some spares.

 

 

[newTIboyRob]

Hmm, @kheller2 ... now that's interesting, and obviously I did not know.  Have you ever done this?   I wonder if there is any video clip I could follow verbatim?

[newTIboyRob]

Turns out I will be able to get the 2 spare springs needed to fix the START key. Here is a photo showing an exposed HELP key, courtesy of a wonderful forum member @Jfcatari          I would imagine the START key looks the same underneath.  Can anyone take it from here as far as steps, tips and tricks to expound on @kheller2's suggestion of pulling out the inner square plunger and lining the 2 springs back up when putting all back together?

Edited February 11 by newTIboyRob

[Rybags]

I seem to remember you could fake a console button press by storing a 1 in it's bit in CONSOL, possibly along with a 0 in bit 3.

But you need to take over the OS VBlank processing otherwise 08 is written to it which undoes your work.

This was a long time ago I played with it and would need to get a real machine out to try and reproduce it.

 

But if it was to work (e.g. substitute something like Shift-Ctrl-S for Start) it'd require a custom OS Rom or Ram based substitute for games to be able to use it.

[+kheller2]

Use a pair of needle nose pliers. Gently grab the white side and pull straight up.   You might need a little force but don’t crush or deform the plastic.  This is not the recommended way, but I’ve done it. 

[Beeblebrox]

@newTIboyRob I managed to dig out one of my keyboards with the same setup. It's a stackpole made membrane keyboard with the white plunger, 2 x springs and the keycap.

 

I've taken a load of pics and measurements as you should just be able to buy modern equivalents of these springs. (Unfortunately I need my springs and also I am in the UK).

 

So the white plunger can be pulled out carefully with either need nosed pliers or a small hooking tool. I used the latter.

 

Once out you see the large and smaller springs. 

 

I uded my digital calipers, (where unfortunately the battery has died), but got these measurements:

 

Larger outer spring is 14mm long by 6mm in diameter

 

smaller inner spring is 16mm long by 2mm in diameter.

 

getting them in place and the plunger back is tricky as the little inner spring needs to sit inside it's hole in the main brown/black plastic keyboard chassis, and also be inside the plunger's inner hole. Bit of tilting and luck and it goes in. 

 

Hope these are helpful:

 

 

Edited February 11 by Beeblebrox

[Rybags]

That small spring looks a lot like the ones you get in clicky pens.

[Beeblebrox]

7 minutes ago, Rybags said:

That small spring looks a lot like the ones you get in clicky pens.

Possibly yeah. The thing is here to not get a spring that has too strong and has a lot of resistance. Or get one that is too weak. The compression resistance on both is pretty light.

 

Also the end of each needs to be flat so it fits in the holes and sits flush, and for the smaller one, presses the membrane through the hole.

[+scorpio_ny]

Hi @newTIboyRob,

 

if you are looking to get replacements for the the smaller internal springs, https://atarirepairparts.com/ sells them. They list different quantities for purchasing.

 

[_The Doctor__]

find other Atarians near you who can help out. You and your' Atari deserve it.

[Jfcatari]

1 hour ago, scorpio_ny said:

Hi @newTIboyRob,

 

if you are looking to get replacements for the the smaller internal springs, https://atarirepairparts.com/ sells them. They list different quantities for purchasing.

 

Thanks for the Atari parts link!

 

 

[newTIboyRob]

@Beeblebrox ... wow, talk about a thorough description, and with the photos to boot. Thank you so much for all that you did on my behalf to outline what needs to be done!

Edited February 11 by newTIboyRob

[newTIboyRob]

Thank you for the link @scorpio_ny... I am a New Yorker as well    

[newTIboyRob]

So @Beeblebrox   those photos are indeed super, and I am trying to visulaize first:

 

When you say the little inner spring needs to sit inside its hole in the main brown/black plastic keyboard chassis, and also be inside the plunger's inner hole....

 

A) I am surmising... as your #1 and #5 photos are basically the same thing, those photos are kind of like "aerial" views of the piece, that is, the combo is upside down from how it sits in the actual keyboard, which is face down, like in your #3 photo?   Thus, when I take the spring/plunger combo out, it is going to look like photo #3...   is all this correct?   

 

B) If this is true, do you think a good way to do it is: to just place the plunger part itself alone down on a flat surface, (but it pointing upward as in photo #3), then first insert the thinner inner spring in its inside hole within the plunger piece, then put the thicker spring outside of that, still within the plunger piece, then hold the combo together, then position that face down heading into the chassis and then do your lining up, wiggling, and inserting down into the keyboard?       ... feel free to correct and/or expound on my guesswork methodology

 

 

 

[newTIboyRob]

Well, it's been about 7 weeks since I last posted, but I just wanted to say this thread had a happy ending. Today I was able to first take off the silver Start key, get the flashlight in there, notice the brown piece inside, see the large spring was still in tact, see there was a small empty hole at the center base of the brown piece, insert the new thinner/smaller spring in there, see that the bottom of the white piece has an empty circle which will allow the thinner spring to come up and through that, and then finally gently press the white piece with the posts all the way down back in. It didn't take right away, but with another firm press, it did take, and the white piece was nice and springy. I put the silver piece for the Start key back, and bam... right back in business.

 

Though this might be something many of you are laughing at, for me, to just bite the bullet and be a little brave and get in there, see what I needed to do and then actually do that correctly and get it to work ... all highly gratifying. I tested it out with a game of Pitfall which requires the Start key to use. It is naturally quite firm and needs a good heavier feel pressing, as it will need quite a bit of presses to "catch up" with the other more loose springs on the keyboard, but, at least she works.

 

I just wanted to share the nice story and positive results with my fellow Atarians  

Edited April 1 by newTIboyRob

[351cougar]

never be ashamed to say you got your hands dirty and fixed something yourself. You got a lot of advise and good examples, which you usually will in these forums, and all turned out OK . 

[newTIboyRob]

@351cougar  yes, I am aware, thank you. The members here and the forum itself are both excellent.