Older arcade conversions

[zzip]

15 hours ago, ledzep said:

 

That's not what I meant, I was saying that porting Atari Football (and Baseball) to the 5200 would be easier because the controller was analog and it includes a keyboard so that you can "hide" your play picks, something that would be tough to do playing on an Atari 8-bit computer (unless sportsmanship allows for players to turn their heads while their adversaries choose their plays on the computer keyboard) unless it was the 4-port Atari 800 so that each player would get 2 controllers, the joystick (or Trak-ball) and the keyboard controller.  But that would screw a lot of A8 owners who only had 2 controller ports so probably a no-deal.  That's if the source code exists in the first place.  As far as I know there's no port of either arcade game to anything out there.

Oh I see what you mean.   There is at least one example of an arcade rom being ported straight to Atari 8-bit:  Asteroids emulator http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-asteroids-emulator_28626.html

 

But Asteroids arcade was a good match for the 8-bit hardware being 6502 based and using Pokey sound.   I have no idea what Atari Football uses so it may not work.    But it shouldn't be all that hard to code from scratch if source code isn't available.   Interesting that Wikipedia considers Atari 2600 Football to be a home port when I don't think those games are remotely similar other than having "Football" in the title 

[Flyindrew]

1 hour ago, zzip said:

Oh I see what you mean.   There is at least one example of an arcade rom being ported straight to Atari 8-bit:  Asteroids emulator http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-asteroids-emulator_28626.html

 

But Asteroids arcade was a good match for the 8-bit hardware being 6502 based and using Pokey sound.  

Actually the original Asteroids 8 bit release was so darn sluggish. Maybe if it were released for the 5200 and the analog control issue was resolved with the joystick, it might have been more fun to play. 

[space_dungeon]

Why would Atari go backwards and convert a 70s game like Atari Baseball when you have 5200 Realsports Baseball which was considered one of the greatest baseball games in 1982 that incorporated speech synthesis, analog controls, and a keypad? 5200 RS Baseball was way better than Atari Baseball arcade.

 

Makes no sense for Atari. 

Edited February 24 by space_dungeon

[ledzep]

4 hours ago, space_dungeon said:

Why would Atari go backwards and convert a 70s game like Atari Baseball when you have 5200 Realsports Baseball which was considered one of the greatest baseball games in 1982 that incorporated speech synthesis, analog controls, and a keypad? 5200 RS Baseball was way better than Atari Baseball arcade.

 

Makes no sense for Atari. 

 

Well, I was thinking mostly for Atari Football but I figured they must be similar in code since they came out roughly at the same time so why not.  If your argument is that they would be nuts to convert a '70s arcade game then you have to explain why the other '70s games got converted.  I have no problem with Realsports Baseball and I can imagine that that might have come about because they wanted Atari Baseball but updated so let's add more to the game.  Atari Football was really popular back in the day, including the early '80s from everything I remember so I would think they would convert that game just to say they had another arcade game port (and to further push their Trak-ball controller).  If you watch gameplay videos of Atari Baseball it seems to move faster than the Realsports version, that would be a consideration as well.

[space_dungeon]

5 hours ago, ledzep said:

 

Well, I was thinking mostly for Atari Football but I figured they must be similar in code since they came out roughly at the same time so why not.  If your argument is that they would be nuts to convert a '70s arcade game then you have to explain why the other '70s games got converted.  I have no problem with Realsports Baseball and I can imagine that that might have come about because they wanted Atari Baseball but updated so let's add more to the game.  Atari Football was really popular back in the day, including the early '80s from everything I remember so I would think they would convert that game just to say they had another arcade game port (and to further push their Trak-ball controller).  If you watch gameplay videos of Atari Baseball it seems to move faster than the Realsports version, that would be a consideration as well.

I'm not talking about atari football.  I'm specifically talking about RS baseball in your post.  Having a 70s version of Atari Baseball and RS Baseball makes no sense.   

[christo930]

On 2/15/2024 at 12:56 PM, Flyindrew said:

By late 1982 these late 70s era titles looked like they were from the stone age. Nobody was going to buy them especially on a brand new state of the art console.

These games were still popular in arcades in 1982.  I used to see them around in 1985 still.  There was a bar near my house and walking by the bar (I was a teenager in 85) there were always people playing the football game.  In that bar in 1985, the black and white x and o football was still quite the quarter muncher.

[christo930]

On 2/20/2024 at 9:12 AM, Flyindrew said:

Your right in that Atari had a successful formula from 1978-1982 rehashing the classic arcade games on the 2600 (Asteroids, Centipede, Missile Command, Space Invaders). However, by late 1982 this was about to change. The Colecovision was the game changer. The vast majority of game players saw a sexy new state of the art console, with fresh arcade ports and attractive boxes with the arcade machines on them (genius marketing at the time).  Yes Atari launched the 5200, but Coleco was new and excited gamers more  at the time (even though I personally think the 5200 is a far superior system of the 2 owning both). That being said, many gamers were ready to move on. I was like you, and still enjoyed the older titles along with the new stuff.   

Old games was pretty standard for the home consoles back then.  You generally weren't getting brand new games.  There was usually like a 2 year window of getting a home version.

 

 

Maybe I would agree that the 5200 seemed more powerful at the time, but in the right hands, the Colecovision is a pretty powerful machine.  But both systems were weak sauce compared to arcade cabinets.  So being 3 or 4 years old was a pretty big advantage for what could be done for the home version.  The 5200 probably could have brought home a decent version of Atari Football.  The graphics were black and white, but did a pretty good job of representing the action on the screen.  Plus it was a pretty popular game.  You could directly play against another player and not just compete for score or something.  Granted, I think you could do that on Real Sports Football, but the arcade version was a better game (admittedly I haven't played either in decades).

 

Both machines weren't really able to accurately reproduce even older B&W arcade games.  Take the arcade game Side Trak by Exidy. It is much higher resolution than either machine.  Side Trak was ported to the Colecovision about 10 years ago.  While it is not a bad port, you can see the lower resolution right away.  Crash is another one that comes to mind.  While Dodge 'Em is a 2600 game, it's missing a lane and both the 5200 and Colecovision would probably both have to make the same concession.

 

I'm not sure what the resolution of Atari Football is, but it's probably higher than the 5200 could duplicate.  It might have been 3 years old in 1982, but it still had superior hardware in at least some respects and concessions probably would have had to have been made to port it to the 5200.

[Velvis]

On 2/19/2024 at 9:06 AM, Flyindrew said:

Take it from an arcade/video game console junkie in 1982, nobody would have bought these late ‘70s titles at the time on a new console. In late ‘82 home console buyers were enamored with Colecovision and its home arcade ports of (then) cutting edge arcade games. As for Atari sports fans, they were buying the Realsports titles.

Yes..in 2024, through the eyes of nostalgia, these late 70s Atari sports games were/are awesome and should be part of any compilation. I remember these games being popular circa 1979.  Im just saying that in ‘82/‘83 they were considered old news, and were collecting dust in the arcades sitting next to newer games.

I agree 100%. Those B&W games were relics by 1982. Porting them to the new "Super System" and having them go up against things like Colecovisions arcade games would be embarrassing.

 

It would be almost as bad as porting Fun with Numbers, Slot Racers, and Surround.

 

 

[ledzep]

4 hours ago, space_dungeon said:

I'm not talking about atari football.  I'm specifically talking about RS baseball in your post.  Having a 70s version of Atari Baseball and RS Baseball makes no sense.   

 

I understand that but I was saying that if you got one of them done, the other would probably need almost no extra effort if, by my guess, they had very similar code.  And like I said, the gameplay from the Atari Baseball game was different, faster than the Realsports Baseball.  Obviously once they decided on Realsports Baseball it would have been ridiculous to come out with a second baseball game that was practically the same.  I'm just wondering why they never ported those Trak-ball games first, especially considering their commitment to the Trak-ball controller.

[ledzep]

18 minutes ago, Velvis said:

I agree 100%. Those B&W games were relics by 1982. Porting them to the new "Super System" and having them go up against things like Colecovisions arcade games would be embarrassing.

 

It would be almost as bad as porting Fun with Numbers, Slot Racers, and Surround.

 

 

 

Oh, of course.  Asteroids, Lunar Lander, Space Wars, they were like 10 (3+) years old!  Nobody would want to play those games, they wanted colors, not gameplay.  But what about Asteroids Deluxe, Battlezone, Star Castle, Armor..Attack, they had colors (overlays)!  Some were from 1980, still a lifetime away from 1982 but closer, right?  Space Invaders was color (overlay), that means people would accept it.  Take the overlay off, though, instant rejection, completely different game.  How do you play this without colors, what's happening?  Yet the Sprint games were popular and they were always B & W from what I remember.  Super Sprint was a slightly different perspective, but in color so clearly that one would be 10x as popular as the older Sprint relics at least even though the gameplay was basically identical.  But the colorplay was night and day.

 

Maybe it was illegal to add color to the home ports of B & W games?  That was probably it, gameplay wouldn't be a consideration, Realsports Baseball was practically a different sport from Atari Baseball, right?  One game has 9 players on a diamond, the other has 9 players on a diamond.  One uses an analog joystick or Trak-ball controller, the other uses a Trak-ball.  The learning curve would be too steep.

 

Ya, Surround would be stupid.  A Tron Light Cycles game would be instantly rejected, like that level in the Tron arcade game, right?  Nice try using some of the most boring 2600 carts to move the goalposts about popular and fun arcade sports games that utilized the Trak-ball controller like the 5200 has.  You missed the Basic Programming cart.

 

Wait a second, if a game being 3-5 years old makes it an embarrassing relic, and this is 2024, that means...

[space_dungeon]

9 hours ago, ledzep said:

 

I understand that but I was saying that if you got one of them done, the other would probably need almost no extra effort if, by my guess, they had very similar code.  And like I said, the gameplay from the Atari Baseball game was different, faster than the Realsports Baseball.  Obviously once they decided on Realsports Baseball it would have been ridiculous to come out with a second baseball game that was practically the same.  I'm just wondering why they never ported those Trak-ball games first, especially considering their commitment to the Trak-ball controller.

The gameplay of the arcade was inaccurate because you had weird curve balls and super speed moments that was not "real" like a true baseball game. When you threw from the outfield to second base, the ball moved like the game pong. There wasn't even a crowd in the arcade, there was no music, and there weren't many options.

 

Atari 5200 RS baseball had a whole keypad of throwing options. You could even bunt.  You used 2 buttons. There was music, some 3d looking effects, and the umpire voice were all way ahead of its time in 1982. Like one mentioned, if atari released a 70s black and white arcade baseball game version even with the trackball in 1982 for the "super system", it would have been a huge failure with Intellivision and Colecovision sport games also creating a new trend in home console gaming. People would have been making fun of the crappy graphics alone. 

[space_dungeon]

14 hours ago, christo930 said:

These games were still popular in arcades in 1982.  I used to see them around in 1985 still.  There was a bar near my house and walking by the bar (I was a teenager in 85) there were always people playing the football game.  In that bar in 1985, the black and white x and o football was still quite the quarter muncher.

Not really.  Maybe in bars.  People were playing games like Dig Dug, Jungle Hunt, Donkey Kong, Popeye, and Tron in 82. At Chuck E Cheese, it was the new 82 games that took storm. Pacman was still popular. 

Edited February 25 by space_dungeon

[christo930]

25 minutes ago, space_dungeon said:

Not really.  Maybe in bars.  People were playing games like Dig Dug, Jungle Hunt, Donkey Kong, Popeye, and Tron in 82. At Chuck E Cheese, it was the new 82 games that took storm. Pacman was still popular. 

What is your point?  A good game is a good game.  Isn't that why we like to break out these old game machines and obsolete cartridges?  

Who is to say that Atari couldn't bring these oldies to the new system but tweak them a bit for the expectations of 1982?  They could have replaced the Xs and Os with different colored sprites that aren't X or O and with the color designating which side the player was on.  The B&W field is perfect. I would have rather had that than a color one.  Or, they could have had a green screen with the markings being white. 

 

Of course, people would never want to play a game on a spinach green screen with a ton of motion blur.  That product would totally fail, especially if it had multicolor competition.  Everyone wanted color and would have laughed at any game manufacturer that released a system/game without color in 1989 no less.  After all, if a game doesn't have color it sucks.

[christo930]

11 hours ago, Velvis said:

I agree 100%. Those B&W games were relics by 1982. Porting them to the new "Super System" and having them go up against things like Colecovisions arcade games would be embarrassing.

 

It would be almost as bad as porting Fun with Numbers, Slot Racers, and Surround.

 

 

 

Yeah, nobody was playing games from 1978..... Except Space Invaders is from 1978 and is a pretty common 5200 cartridge having sold pretty well.

 

The games you list there weren't ported to the 5200 not because of their age, but because they weren't very good games.  One of the 3 is an "educational" "game" that isn't even really a game.

 

You talk about Colecovision's arcade games while I guess pretending Atari wasn't known for bringing out home ports of arcade games.  Plus, we're talking about arcade cabinet games here even if they were B&W.   Coleco badly suffered in this area not being able to compete well with Atari in acquiring arcade licenses.  They got Donkey Kong and Jr, most of Exidy's games and a hand full of others. Atari got the vast majority of the rest.  Since Atari itself was a large arcade cabinet manufacturer, they had access to all of the Atari games.

[ledzep]

3 hours ago, space_dungeon said:

The gameplay of the arcade was inaccurate because you had weird curve balls and super speed moments that was not "real" like a true baseball game. When you threw from the outfield to second base, the ball moved like the game pong. There wasn't even a crowd in the arcade, there was no music, and there weren't many options.

 

Ah, ok, that makes more sense.  I never played that thing in an arcade (never saw a 4-player Atari Football, either).  I will say that I loved the non-real pitches that these trak-ball arcade baseball games allowed, unrealistic as they were.  Made trying to play 9 innings of computer baseball more interesting, hahaha.  But I can believe that sports purists would have been annoyed with those bullshit abilities.

 

3 hours ago, space_dungeon said:

Atari 5200 RS baseball had a whole keypad of throwing options. You could even bunt.  You used 2 buttons. There was music, some 3d looking effects, and the umpire voice were all way ahead of its time in 1982. Like one mentioned, if atari released a 70s black and white arcade baseball game version even with the trackball in 1982 for the "super system", it would have been a huge failure with Intellivision and Colecovision sport games also creating a new trend in home console gaming. People would have been making fun of the crappy graphics alone. 

 

I agree but there would have been nothing stopping Atari from fixing those issues with Atari Baseball.  Which I can believe is what morphed into Realsports Baseball but it seems to have lost some of its speed along the way.

[space_dungeon]

8 hours ago, ledzep said:

 

Ah, ok, that makes more sense.  I never played that thing in an arcade (never saw a 4-player Atari Football, either).  I will say that I loved the non-real pitches that these trak-ball arcade baseball games allowed, unrealistic as they were.  Made trying to play 9 innings of computer baseball more interesting, hahaha.  But I can believe that sports purists would have been annoyed with those bullshit abilities.

 

 

I agree but there would have been nothing stopping Atari from fixing those issues with Atari Baseball.  Which I can believe is what morphed into Realsports Baseball but it seems to have lost some of its speed along the way.

One of things you have to remember in history is that Atari VCS brought the game Home Run.  It was a huge hit in the late 70s.  Then Intellivision blows the 2600 away with its World Series Baseball in 1980. There were even Intellivision baseball commercials making fun of the 2600.  Then in 1982, the 5200 release RS Baseball that literally takes Intellivision baseball and beats it in every category....gameplay, controls, graphics, and music, and sound. If Atari tried to release the 70s arcade baseball, it would have been an embarrassment. Many regard 5200 baseball as the best baseball game in that era until Hardball was released on the 8bit later 1985.

)

). 

Edited February 26 by space_dungeon

[space_dungeon]

11 hours ago, christo930 said:

What is your point?  A good game is a good game.  Isn't that why we like to break out these old game machines and obsolete cartridges?  

Who is to say that Atari couldn't bring these oldies to the new system but tweak them a bit for the expectations of 1982?  They could have replaced the Xs and Os with different colored sprites that aren't X or O and with the color designating which side the player was on.  The B&W field is perfect. I would have rather had that than a color one.  Or, they could have had a green screen with the markings being white. 

 

Of course, people would never want to play a game on a spinach green screen with a ton of motion blur.  That product would totally fail, especially if it had multicolor competition.  Everyone wanted color and would have laughed at any game manufacturer that released a system/game without color in 1989 no less.  After all, if a game doesn't have color it sucks.

My point is that it makes no sense for Atari to have released the 70s Arcade baseball on the 5200 when they already created a ground breaking RS Baseball game. Like what I just mentioned in my last post before this one, you have to remember in history is that Atari VCS brought the game Home Run.  It was a huge hit in the late 70s.  Then Intellivision blows the 2600 away with its World Series Baseball in 1980. There were even Intellivision baseball commercials making fun of the 2600.  Then in 1982, the 5200 release RS Baseball that literally takes Intellivision baseball and beats it in every category....gameplay, controls, graphics, and music, and sound. If Atari tried to release the 70s arcade baseball, it would have been an embarrassment. And in 1982, 1978 Arcade Baseball on the 5200 would have not been a good game. 

Edited February 26 by space_dungeon

[Velvis]

12 hours ago, christo930 said:

 

Yeah, nobody was playing games from 1978..... Except Space Invaders is from 1978 and is a pretty common 5200 cartridge having sold pretty well.

 

The games you list there weren't ported to the 5200 not because of their age, but because they weren't very good games.  One of the 3 is an "educational" "game" that isn't even really a game.

 

You talk about Colecovision's arcade games while I guess pretending Atari wasn't known for bringing out home ports of arcade games.  Plus, we're talking about arcade cabinet games here even if they were B&W.   Coleco badly suffered in this area not being able to compete well with Atari in acquiring arcade licenses.  They got Donkey Kong and Jr, most of Exidy's games and a hand full of others. Atari got the vast majority of the rest.  Since Atari itself was a large arcade cabinet manufacturer, they had access to all of the Atari games.

B&W X&O Football or Baseball isn't the same thing as Space Invaders in any way, shape, or form.

 

Releasing the earliest primitive sports games on what was supposed to be the latest and greatest hardware and specifically designed to surpass the 2600 in graphics and game play would make no sense whatsoever. There were already more modern baseball and football games on the 2600, no one was looking to "go retro" in 1982 and have a football game with X's and O's as players. The whole thing at the time was to make videogames to look, play, and sound better. Never mind requiring people to purchase a trackball or two to recreate the experience which as you pointed out would be expensive. No one wanted to buy a 5200 at $269.99 likely replacing a 2600 in order to play games that were more primitive than the already existing 2600 versions.

 

Those games weren't even still in arcades by 1982. I don't think I even knew the Baseball game existed before this thread.

 

I was referring to Colecovisions games because they came out roughly at the same time as the 5200 and the biggest selling point was their arcade games that "play like the real arcade game." The point being people were buying 5200's and Colecovisions to get away from primitive graphics and sound. People wanted to get arcade quality games at home. By 1982 arcade hardware was leaps and bounds beyond Atari Football from 1978.

 

A few years later as a comparison, one of the (many) reasons the 7800 did poorly against the NES is its library is filled with the same old Atari arcade games that people had moved on from by 1986.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Velvis]

23 hours ago, ledzep said:

 

Oh, of course.  Asteroids, Lunar Lander, Space Wars, they were like 10 (3+) years old!  Nobody would want to play those games, they wanted colors, not gameplay.  But what about Asteroids Deluxe, Battlezone, Star Castle, Armor..Attack, they had colors (overlays)!  Some were from 1980, still a lifetime away from 1982 but closer, right?  Space Invaders was color (overlay), that means people would accept it.  Take the overlay off, though, instant rejection, completely different game.  How do you play this without colors, what's happening?  Yet the Sprint games were popular and they were always B & W from what I remember.  Super Sprint was a slightly different perspective, but in color so clearly that one would be 10x as popular as the older Sprint relics at least even though the gameplay was basically identical.  But the colorplay was night and day.

 

Maybe it was illegal to add color to the home ports of B & W games?  That was probably it, gameplay wouldn't be a consideration, Realsports Baseball was practically a different sport from Atari Baseball, right?  One game has 9 players on a diamond, the other has 9 players on a diamond.  One uses an analog joystick or Trak-ball controller, the other uses a Trak-ball.  The learning curve would be too steep.

 

Ya, Surround would be stupid.  A Tron Light Cycles game would be instantly rejected, like that level in the Tron arcade game, right?  Nice try using some of the most boring 2600 carts to move the goalposts about popular and fun arcade sports games that utilized the Trak-ball controller like the 5200 has.  You missed the Basic Programming cart.

 

Wait a second, if a game being 3-5 years old makes it an embarrassing relic, and this is 2024, that means...

None of that word salad changes anything I said originally nor is it related to the original post of thinking it would be a good idea to take a B&W football game with x's and o's as players and porting it to the next generation "Super System", which was sold specifically as a graphical upgrade to better replicate then current 1982 arcade games, simply because it had trackball support or an analog controller.

 

"Hey, lets spend $270 on the 5200 and then buy games that look worse than 2600 titles!" 

 

Atari really should have gone after that market.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ledzep]

5 minutes ago, Velvis said:

None of that word salad changes anything I said originally nor is it related to the original post of thinking it would be a good idea to take a B&W football game with x's and o's as players and porting it to the next generation "Super System", which was sold specifically as a graphical upgrade to better replicate then current 1982 arcade games, simply because it had trackball support or an analog controller.

 

Sure it does, all of it, because what you said was that nobody would want to play a relic of a game that was (gasp!) 3+ years old on the 5200 in 1982 which Space Invaders and Super Breakout, among others (they were planning Asteroids, remember) easily refute, and you also said that nobody would want to play a B&W game, either, even though many of the games that had come out in the arcades were B&W but with primitive and obvious color overlays on them, such as Space Invaders (and non-5200 games like Asteroids Deluxe, Star Castle, etc.), which could easily have colors added onto them for the 5200 to assuage gamers like you who would seem to be incapable of enjoying the game or playing it because it originally was B&W.  I don't know what your hang-up is with games that were originally B&W, do you think that Atari couldn't add color to them for the 5200 like they did for some of the games they released?  Do you think they couldn't also add some extras to make the game "better" than the arcade version?

 

If the 5200 was sold specifically as a graphical upgrade to better replicate then current 1982 arcade games then it would never have had older games released for it, get it?  Almost every game that initially came out for the 5200 in 1982 was based on a pre-1982 game!

 

Pac-Man 1980

Space Invaders 1978

Defender 1981

Star Raiders (home game) 1980

Galaxian 1979

Missile Command 1980

Realsports Baseball, Football, Soccer (home games, not arcade ports) 1982

Super Breakout 1978

Asteroids (unreleased) 1979

 

I may be missing a couple, who knows, but do you see the pattern?  No 1982 arcade games on the 5200 in 1982.  Atari Football came out the same year as the amazingly "current" Space Invaders, 1978.  So much for your theory.  They went with the direction they went with for the sports games, I don't mind, I'm just surprised that they didn't base the Baseball game on Atari Baseball and add all the extras that Realsports Baseball got, and I'm really surprised they didn't release Atari Football with similar enhancements (my god, color!) since it was popular in many arcades back in the day, including after 1978, and part of that popularity was those giant trak-ball controllers.

 

You either weren't around arcades in the early '80s, don't have a good memory of that era, or went to crappy arcades because I went to loads of them and they all had the older games, limited by interior space for the cabinets, along with the newest games.  Some of the bigger ones had great "old" games like Red Baron (1981), Tail Gunner (1979), Rip-Off (1980), Centipede (1981), Berzerk (1980), too.  Seriously, in 1982 did you refuse to play any of the games that had come out before 1982 because they were now "relics"?!

 

25 minutes ago, Velvis said:

"Hey, lets spend $270 on the 5200 and then buy games that look worse than 2600 titles!" 

 

If you think Atari Baseball and Atari Football look worse than the 2600 versions, you need glasses, hahaahahaha.

 

 

 

But sure, stick with that story if it makes you feel better.

 

30 minutes ago, Velvis said:

Atari really should have gone after that market.

 

They did, it was called the arcade port market.  Coleco tried the same thing but with mostly lesser games.  Even so, they had some good ports.

[zzip]

On 2/24/2024 at 3:26 PM, ledzep said:

Atari Football was really popular back in the day, including the early '80s from everything I remember so I would think they would convert that game just to say they had another arcade game port (and to further push their Trak-ball controller).  If you watch gameplay videos of Atari Baseball it seems to move faster than the Realsports version, that would be a consideration as well.

Apparently Atari Football was the #2 arcade game of the year it came out,  second only to Space Invaders   

 

On 2/25/2024 at 12:29 AM, christo930 said:

I'm not sure what the resolution of Atari Football is, but it's probably higher than the 5200 could duplicate.  It might have been 3 years old in 1982, but it still had superior hardware in at least some respects and concessions probably would have had to have been made to port it to the 5200.

According to MAME,  the resolution of Atari Football arcade is 304x240,  not that far outside 5200 high res.   And it uses a 6502 running at 756 Mhz (less than half the speed of the 5200).   5200 high-res combined with P/M overlays could probably do a reasonable job and maybe even add some color (green field)

 

8 hours ago, Velvis said:

Releasing the earliest primitive sports games on what was supposed to be the latest and greatest hardware and specifically designed to surpass the 2600 in graphics and game play would make no sense whatsoever. There were already more modern baseball and football games on the 2600, no one was looking to "go retro" in 1982 and have a football game with X's and O's as players. The whole thing at the time was to make videogames to look, play, and sound better. Never mind requiring people to purchase a trackball or two to recreate the experience which as you pointed out would be expensive. No one wanted to buy a 5200 at $269.99 likely replacing a 2600 in order to play games that were more primitive than the already existing 2600 versions.

X and O terminology was common in football outside of video games,  so I don't think a football game featuring X's and O's would turn off football fans as much as you think.   Plus the Atari Football arcade game was very fluid unlike many home football games.

 

7 hours ago, ledzep said:

You either weren't around arcades in the early '80s, don't have a good memory of that era, or went to crappy arcades because I went to loads of them and they all had the older games, limited by interior space for the cabinets, along with the newest games.  Some of the bigger ones had great "old" games like Red Baron (1981), Tail Gunner (1979), Rip-Off (1980), Centipede (1981), Berzerk (1980), too.  Seriously, in 1982 did you refuse to play any of the games that had come out before 1982 because they were now "relics"?!

There was an explosion in new arcades opening from 1980-82 to capitalize on the craze.   These newer arcades tended to feature the newest games, and not have 1970s arcade cabinets laying around.   I'd see the older 70s arcade games mostly at arcades that had been established for awhile, like at amusement parks.

 

 

[ledzep]

1 hour ago, zzip said:

There was an explosion in new arcades opening from 1980-82 to capitalize on the craze.   These newer arcades tended to feature the newest games, and not have 1970s arcade cabinets laying around.   I'd see the older 70s arcade games mostly at arcades that had been established for awhile, like at amusement parks.

 

Agreed, around here that meant Castle Golf (miniature golf, possibly waterslides, arcade games), SEGA Centers, I remember an arcade in the Del Amo Mall(?) that was huge and had lots of games (the Topanga Canyon Mall had one almost as big, I think).  There was an arcade in Pasadena that was also giant, you could tell they had combined two buildings because the floor had an uneven seam in the middle, lots of older games there, too.  But I could still find a Sea Wolf(!) in a few arcades even as I was also playing Star Trek in an environmental cabinet.  The Starcade in Tomorrowland (in Disneyland) had lots of games, I think that's the only arcade where I ever saw a stand-up Tail Gunner.  But at the same time some small locations had older games, too, probably because it cost money to get the newest ones.  I played Canyon Bomber in the food area of a Sears in the Northridge Fashion Center, only time I ever saw one.  There was a mini-mart near my friend's house that had a Wizard Of Wor for years, etc.  The older games that had great gameplay were popular for years, not just the years they came out.  The shitty ones, ya, they got replaced quick.  Chuck E. Cheese had a Moon Cresta that always raped me, an arcade on my way to high school had the only Space Firebird and Polaris I remember.

 

Oh wow, some great pics in this post about the Starcade -

 

https://forums.arcade-museum.com/threads/starcade-at-disneyland-1978-79.497397/

 

Some old favorites in there back then.  I remember upstairs they had two Space Duels along with those great air hockey tables.

[christo930]

22 hours ago, space_dungeon said:

My point is that it makes no sense for Atari to have released the 70s Arcade baseball on the 5200 when they already created a ground breaking RS Baseball game. Like what I just mentioned in my last post before this one, you have to remember in history is that Atari VCS brought the game Home Run.  It was a huge hit in the late 70s.  Then Intellivision blows the 2600 away with its World Series Baseball in 1980. There were even Intellivision baseball commercials making fun of the 2600.  Then in 1982, the 5200 release RS Baseball that literally takes Intellivision baseball and beats it in every category....gameplay, controls, graphics, and music, and sound. If Atari tried to release the 70s arcade baseball, it would have been an embarrassment. And in 1982, 1978 Arcade Baseball on the 5200 would have not been a good game.

There is something to be said for bringing home the arcade.  Frankly, Intellivision sports games were slow and boring, at least to my 12 year old self.  The market for arcade conversions, including sports titles is bigger than the market for ultra-realistic (by early 80s standards) sports games.  Whatever bragging rights Intellivision had for its sports games did not translate to better sales for the Intellivision, even with official sports league licensing.  The 2600 sold whole number multiples better than the Intellivision.

 

I'm not saying they should have re-released 2600 games.  I'm talking about bringing home the arcade versions, especially the football game for use with the trackball.  That game was popular for years.  The basketball game was not nearly as popular. Bringing home the specialized controllers of the arcade was something else Atari had going for it, at least with respect to Atari Football.

 

The next popular coin operated football game that I recall was 10 yard fight. This is also an arcade game, not ultra realistic.    Championship Baseball was a fun game I liked at the time. Also much more "arcade" than realistic baseball.

[christo930]

Here is Atari's 1979 Baseball

 

 

Here is Intellivision's Baseball

 

 

 

The 1979 coin op cabinet looks WAY better.. It is in much higher resolution.  The sound is probably about equal.

 

The situation is similar for the football game.  The 1978 arcade football cabinet looks way better. It's much faster.

 

Maybe there are missing aspects of the game in the arcade versions (IDK, I haven't played any sports video games in decades), but the Intellivision versions pale in comparison. They are nowhere near as clear and clean looking.  The arcade versions may be in black and white, but they are in MUCH higher resolution.  The sound is definitely competitive.

[space_dungeon]

On 2/26/2024 at 9:27 PM, christo930 said:

There is something to be said for bringing home the arcade.  Frankly, Intellivision sports games were slow and boring, at least to my 12 year old self.  The market for arcade conversions, including sports titles is bigger than the market for ultra-realistic (by early 80s standards) sports games.  Whatever bragging rights Intellivision had for its sports games did not translate to better sales for the Intellivision, even with official sports league licensing.  The 2600 sold whole number multiples better than the Intellivision.

 

I'm not saying they should have re-released 2600 games.  I'm talking about bringing home the arcade versions, especially the football game for use with the trackball.  That game was popular for years.  The basketball game was not nearly as popular. Bringing home the specialized controllers of the arcade was something else Atari had going for it, at least with respect to Atari Football.

 

The next popular coin operated football game that I recall was 10 yard fight. This is also an arcade game, not ultra realistic.    Championship Baseball was a fun game I liked at the time. Also much more "arcade" than realistic baseball.

You are right that there is something said about bringing home an arcade game.  But the arcade game has to be iconic like PacMan or Defender, which was incredible for 1982 on the 5200. Games like PacMan, Defender, Centipede really made the 5200 shine in 1982.  Bringing a 1978 Arcade Baseball game, would be digressing, especially if you had game like RS Baseball.