Experimental 2600+ Firmware and Dumper

[JetmanUK]

28 minutes ago, Fred_M said:

Yes, in DTP software it makes images more "blurry".

And it is BLUUUUUUURYYYYY 🤣

[John Stamos Mullet]

1 hour ago, chad5200 said:

What does Bilinear Filter do?

Fixes the unevenly scaled horizontal lines so you don’t get the undulating/judder effect on vertically scrolling games like River Raid, Xevious7800, commando7800, etc 

[John Stamos Mullet]

37 minutes ago, JetmanUK said:

And it is BLUUUUUUURYYYYY 🤣

It’s what it would look like on a CRT. It helps with pixel blending. 

[John Stamos Mullet]

1 hour ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Smooths out the sharpness of image. I call it the vaseline filter.

[shane857]

2 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

It’s what it would look like on a CRT. It helps with pixel blending. 

Sometimes it helps for games to be a little bit 'blurry' Mostly faster scrolling games and not single screen.

[JetmanUK]

7 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

It’s what it would look like on a CRT. It helps with pixel blending.

Hmmm, I dunno man,  it's got the blurryness sure, but without any RF shadowing, interference and jailbars it doesn't actually simulate a CRT image on a modern set that well.

 

If people like it, great, I'm always happy to see more options... But I don't think the resulting image looks like a 2600 on a CRT.

Edited 4 hours ago by JetmanUK

[Thomas Jentzsch]

20 minutes ago, JetmanUK said:

But I don't think the resulting image looks like a 2600 on a CRT.

Agreed, for that you need more options.

[JetmanUK]

3 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Agreed, for that you need more options.

Yes, these are what sprung to mind, I've played around with them in STELLA quite a bit and I think the results are very good. 

[John Stamos Mullet]

53 minutes ago, JetmanUK said:

Hmmm, I dunno man,  it's got the blurryness sure, but without any RF shadowing, interference and jailbars it doesn't actually simulate a CRT image on a modern set that well.

 

If people like it, great, I'm always happy to see more options... But I don't think the resulting image looks like a 2600 on a CRT.

It's what it looks like on a CRT using s-video.

 

the rf shadowing, interference, and jailbars are not intended output of the original consoles, but rather are nuisance factors of RF television reception at the time - nobody wants those in their signal, it's signal noise.

 

The scan lines filter would be nice, but this is a process. Baby steps.

Edited 3 hours ago by John Stamos Mullet

[DEANJIMMY]

55 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Agreed, for that you need more options.

I use a Retrotink5x for my real machines and it simulates a Trinitron CRT quite well.

Not sure if the Stella scanline and mask option could be activated on a 2600+ or if the HW is not powerful enough? I have no knowledge in this area, really.

 

I used an external scanline generator on the 2600+ at the beginning but removed it when PAL games got a 50Hz output... the device can only handle 60Hz. Therefore I was not surprised, some TV and many monitors having issues with 50Hz hdmi (missing sprites).

As you will be able to kick PAL games into 60Hz I could use it again... but to be honest, in the meantime I like the crisp output from 2600 games much more and there is no need for scanlines in my case anymore.

 

The phosphor effect how ever can have a very positive effect on some flickering 2600 games like Wizzard of Wor!

 

For 7800 games it is a different story. Here filters like the bilinear improve the vertical scrolling in games like Commando very much.

The schimmer in the secret levels is present but less too.

 

Scanlines for 7800 games could be nice, for 2600 games I personally might not have much need anymore, after I got so much used to the crisp output😊

Edited 3 hours ago by DEANJIMMY

[Thomas Jentzsch]

21 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

nobody wants those in their signal

Obviously, this is not correct.

[JetmanUK]

20 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

It's what it looks like on a CRT using s-video.

 

the rf shadowing, interference, and jailbars are not intended output of the original consoles, but rather are nuisance factors of RF television reception at the time - nobody wants those in their signal, it's signal noise.

 

The scan lines filter would be nice, but this is a process. Baby steps.

Ah perhaps using S VIdeo it is more similar, agreed, jailbars can still occur though.

 

I personally also use an S Video moded light sixer with a Retrotink and it looks great. For me I enjoy the super sharp HDMI of the 2600+ output but again choices are always welcome and everyone should enjoy their console how they like. 

[John Stamos Mullet]

Just now, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Obviously, this is not correct.

So you actually want rf interference and jail bars in your video?

 

do you also like dents in your car and mold on your food?

[Thomas Jentzsch]

4 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

So you actually want rf interference and jail bars in your video?

 

do you also like dents in your car and mold on your food?

What I want is as irrelevant as what you want. Enough people have asked for it.

[+Fred_M]

I like the crystal sharp image the 2600+ generates. No blurry filters for me. If I want to have a not so perfect picture, I can also use a real 2600 or 7800 😂

 

By the way, the TV also makes a big difference. For my old consoles and computers I mainly use an old sharp TV, the LC225SH1E, that old thing is even on RF displaying a very good image.

 

[raz0red]

Just to clear the air a bit with regards to the next update.

 

The only purpose for the menu was to add the option to enable/disable 50hz mode as it was causing issues depending on the type of television you are using.

 

The other options were added based on requests (maybe not a wise decisions) and they are intentionally very simple. It is worth noting that options are not persisted when the firmware is upgraded, so having a lot of settings would likely prove frustrating. Further, the intent of the 2600+ is to be a simple plug and play device. The menu itself isn't visible unless you know the sequence to display it, so it shouldn't negatively affect anyone's experience.

 

Hope this helps, and sorry this seems to have caused so much confusion. The next update is a relatively simple update, hopefully it can be released soon.

 

Thanks,

Chris.

Edited 2 hours ago by raz0red

[Defender_2600]

Guys please don't turn the good news into a sour discussion. These new devices are not intended for CRT enthusiasts. On the other hand there are high quality RF demodulators that have comb filters to reduce noise, and you will still need an RF or composite video output to properly display the artifacts and dithering. The CRTs are not synonymous with blur, until the tube wears out or the capacitors lose their electrolyte. That's why some emulators offer a lot of CRT settings.

 

Many thanks for adding video filters as an option, it is appreciated and useful. And I think these filters are needed to compete with other mini consoles and Blaze systems that already have them as an option.

Edited 2 hours ago by Defender_2600

[John Stamos Mullet]

39 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

What I want is as irrelevant as what you want. Enough people have asked for it.

Who exactly asked for interference and jailbars on the 2600+?

[r_chase]

3 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

Who exactly asked for interference and jailbars on the 2600+?

Admittedly, I usually make glitch art for my tracks, but I'd agree with you on the fact that replicating CRT flaws being actually kinda pointless...? I just don't get it.

[John Stamos Mullet]

1 minute ago, r_chase said:

Admittedly, I usually make glitch art for my tracks, but I'd agree with you on the fact that replicating CRT flaws being actually kinda pointless...? I just don't get it.

and there aren't even options for it in the full version of Stella, according to that screenshot above, so I don't really know what he means when he said "enough people asked for it". It's not even there.

 

 

[Ripweade]

3 hours ago, Fred_M said:

Yes, in DTP software it makes images more "blurry".

Ah, now THERE'S a term I miss:  DTP.  Ya know, you're showing your age there since DTP hasn't been used in a good 20 years now.  

 

I can't say much.  I'm an old timer printer who started when typesetting was a hot term.  I won't show my true age by saying something like composing stick.  

 

ok, enough going off on a tangent with printing terms.  We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

[r_chase]

1 minute ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

and there aren't even options for it in the full version of Stella, according to that screenshot above, so I don't really know what he means when he said "enough people asked for it". It's not even there.

 

 

I feel like it depends on what TV mode you choose and what adjustments you make within that mode, but why the hell would you bother? What's the difference between "blending" on an Atari 2600 and colo(u)r clashing on a Z(ed)X Spectrum?

[John Stamos Mullet]

17 minutes ago, Defender_2600 said:

Guys please don't turn the good news into a sour discussion. These new devices are not intended for CRT enthusiasts. On the other hand there are high quality RF demodulators that have comb filters to reduce noise, and you will still need an RF or composite video output to properly display the artifacts and dithering. The CRTs are not synonymous with blur, until the tube wears out or the capacitors lose their electrolyte. That's why some emulators offer a lot of CRT settings.

the bilinear filter is not intended as a means to "blur".

 

The scaling of the 2600+ video output is uneven due the ratio it's scaled at not being a a scalable integer at any HD standard resolutions. so the horizontal lines are unevenly produced, causing some graphics in some games to be stretched or warped unnaturally. and if those items scroll across the screen vertically, it undulates like a wave in and out of mismatched horizontal lines. The bilinear filter corrects that, making the horizontal lines equidistant and smooth.

 

The nice part is, it's an option. and not even the default option, you have to purposefully enable it. So if you don't like it, don't use it.

Edited 2 hours ago by John Stamos Mullet

[MrChickenz]

15 hours ago, raz0red said:

That is part of the pending r7 release. It should be released this weekend

I need to have this installed by Sunday 2:15 the latest! 😆

[Defender_2600]

1 hour ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

the bilinear filter is not intended as a means to "blur".

 

The scaling of the 2600+ video output is uneven due the ratio it's scaled at not being a a scalable integer at any HD standard resolutions. so the horizontal lines are unevenly produced, causing some graphics in some games to be stretched or warped unnaturally. and if those items scroll across the screen vertically, it undulates like a wave in and out of mismatched horizontal lines. The bilinear filter corrects that, making the horizontal lines equidistant and smooth

 

Yes indeed, another reason why the bilinear filter is useful. Speaking of which, I was wondering how the 7800's vertical resolution is handled. If it were possible to display the full 7800  240p, including the horizontal black bars above and below the image (the maximum vertical resolution currently used by 7800 games is 224 pixels) then with vertical scrolling we would not get the graphical distortion on native 720p (240p x3) and native 1440p (720p x2 / 240p x6) TVs.

 

But certainly @raz0red will have already analyzed all this.

 

Edited 36 minutes ago by Defender_2600