Article about the new Atari Asteroids Recharged arcade games. Has pictures and video

[ledzep]

5 hours ago, TampaBay said:

Yeah the more we discuss it, the more I realize that my frame of mind needs to be that each of the two "genres" of arcades and related games is really a whole different beast.

 

This may seem like a stupid question/idea but, considering the size of some of these FECs, couldn't they have a section (to the side, as not to embarrass the non-gamers) of old or Recharged normal arcade games?  You'd still have the big screen super games, the lightgun games, etc., in the main areas but then maybe a revolving group of like 8-10 legitimate classic arcade games (so, not all Pac-Man/Donkey Kong type games) so that the actual gamers that have roped into Birthday Boy's party at Galaxy Of Minimally Interactive Movies can still find a way to have some fun.  I think it could be done since, considering the mammoth size of these modern cabinets, the older arcade games could fit into a relatively small area.

 

5 hours ago, TampaBay said:

I had to laugh, when I went to get the link to show you the Transformers game, even Sega couldn't bring themselves to call it an "arcade game".  They called it a "Video Attraction Game" at minute marker 2:20.  Nonetheless it's still fun and the YouTube video does not do justice to the experience.  It's not too similar to those Battletech games.  I imagine it's more in line with the types of games you're not a fan of.  I will say this though, it's not short like some of other games.  You can play for a while on your initial set of credits.  Speaking of not calling it "arcade" the primary place where I play these types of games is called Elev8, and they call themselves an "Amusement Center".  Because they also have laser tag and rock climbing, etc., they also call themselves an "Indoor Adventure Park".  So yeah, it's quite a departure from the classic arcades of my youth.

 

That is depressing, though at least, as you say, that one game can last a while.  A lot of this shit looks like all icing, no cake.  But these places have to make money and their audience can't be bothered to try hard anymore.  Bigger, brighter, louder, they're happy.

[ledzep]

4 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

Now there is one other aspect I haven't touched on that arcades have too, something that Nintendo constantly gets at with a focus on "couch gaming" - social atmosphere gaming. Aside from multiplayer games earning better (each player station builds on that potential), the experience of playing with someone else or a group at an arcade is different than at home. Part of that is the wildcard of strangers - unlike the internet, playing with a rando in public generally means people are respectful to each other and sometimes you can make new friends when you both play a game you enjoy. 

 

I hope you realize that all that existed back in the glory days of Castle Park type arcades (miniature golf, arcade games, possibly waterslides).  I had quite a few fun experiences playing with random people during 2-player games (yes, the mega-multiplayer games didn't exist yet except for the occasional 3-4 person racing games) along with watching someone own Star Castle or Tempest or whatever.

 

I mean, does nobody remember how crowds could form watching great players get high scores in the '80s?

 

 

(Odin, if I could win the lottery I'd recreate that arcade for me and my friends, game-for-game!) Now obviously, as that clip illustrates, smaller cabs = less room to watch someone else play so I do see the draw for big screens for big 4-8 player games.  But then, as has been mentioned, that also requires big bucks to buy (and maintain, I suppose) along with needing loads of room to house those monstrosities.

 

4 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

Then there's the aspect of showing off. It doesn't happen as much as it used to but when you have a player who is really good at a game, that draws attention. If you're that player, that's something else of showing off in public. I suppose you could call it performance art - although not every game is conducive to this sort of thing:

 

Oh, that guy can go to hell, hahaaha.  Nobody's here to see you audition for an action movie, bro.  On the other hand I can understand being so goddamn good at the game that you can afford to entertain yourself by doing those goofy moves and still pwn that game.  Now, if a modern version of that game could recognize when you're doing those moves (ducking backwards, shooting over your shoulder vs. playing the boring way via some kind of shape recognition/gun orientation sensor) and hand out extra points (assuming there would be points for a possible high score) then you'd have something, but I suspect that a lot of couch potato virtual heroes would turn their uncoordinated fat ankles trying to be John Wick and wind up in a cast, hahaahaha.  It would serve them right for not growing up playing sports.

[Lord Mushroom]

15 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

 throwing guns onto a game like MC or Asteroids would probably drive that base away

I agree that it would be a turn off for that base, but the core gameplay would still be there, so I don´t think it would scare off as many as was scared off by Space Invaders Frenzy´s new gameplay. And Space Invaders Frenzy was a success, despite having worse gameplay than Missile Command Recharged. Space Invaders Frenzy is really dumb, though, so it has that going for it.

 

Asteroids should of course not have lightguns.

 

15 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

To be fair, Eugene has a pretty strong sense of what the modern market likes and doesn't like.

But Jimmy Wicker didn´t specify that Eugene thought it would do well in an arcade. I got the impression that Eugene just liked it personally.

 

15 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

I operate in a relatively low-to-mid income area

I have heard that retro arcades/barcades do better in poorer areas than in richer areas. Do you know anything about that?

Edited March 25 by Lord Mushroom

[Lord Mushroom]

11 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

Regarding a deer hunting game, if you look at Big Buck Hunter, that does require skill to play

Yes, I am sure modern games won´t let you play for ages unless you have to pay additionally to prolong play. It would be bad business. Just because a game is uncomplicated, it doesn´t mean it is easy.

 

11 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

But that's why I mention that certain elements like a very difficult game, just don't work in modern arcades.

It is strange that the makers of Cosmotrons made that mistake, as Gravitar famously failed due to its hard difficulty. 

[TampaBay]

4 hours ago, ledzep said:

"so that the actual gamers that have roped into Birthday Boy's party at Galaxy Of Minimally Interactive Movies can still find a way to have some fun." 

Haha!  This is the best line of this entire thread.  It perfectly summarizes the current situation.  Awesome.

 

As for the idea, while I personally love it, in practice it has apparently been a flop.  The small chain of Family Fun Centers by me has a location in Tampa Bay near my house, and a location in Orlando.  According to @Shaggy the Atarian, the Orlando location has a section of classic retro games and unfortunately very few people use it.  So much so that the brand new location by me didn't even bother to recreate that retro section when they built my location recently.  (See related info below in my response to Lord Mushroom).

 

 

 

19 minutes ago, Lord Mushroom said:

I have heard that retro arcades/barcades do better in poorer areas. Do you know anything about that?

I can't answer for Shaggy, but we have several retro arcades in my area, which are all middle or nicer income areas, and they are very popular.  Ledzep was asking above if retro games could fit in nicely in a Family Fun Center along with modern games, and I think the answer is that ultimately the shiny new toys next to those retro games outshines them.  That said, the retro arcades by me smartly do not have any modern games at all.  So two things happen:  The retro games are not outshined by all the flashing lights and bells and whistles of the new games, but much more importantly, all the clientele that's inside the retro arcade is there purely to play retro games because those games are their love and passion.  That's why I go there.  It has all my favorite games, and I'm among like-minded people who are there specifically to enjoy those classic games.  My apologies if I've overposted my own thread on my favorite local retro arcade, but here it is if you haven't seen it.  This place is absolutely amazing.  I go all the time now.

 

 

[Lord Mushroom]

I think it is wrong to call modern gamers or casual gamers or whatever non-gamers. If you play video games, you are a gamer in my book. There are just different types of gamers.

[TampaBay]

Just now, Lord Mushroom said:

I think it is wrong to call modern gamers or casual gamers or whatever non-gamers. If you play video games, you are a gamer in my book. There are just different types of gamers.

 

I think our somewhat tongue-in-cheek point is: "When does it cease to be a game?" and more of an interactive movie.  That Drakons motion simulator that Shaggy posted about earlier is borderline not really a game, even though I think it's awesome and I'd be happy to pay to "ride it".  There is a lightgun and you sort of shoot things, but it's really more of a simulator than a game.

[TampaBay]

7 minutes ago, Lord Mushroom said:

I think it is wrong to call modern gamers or casual gamers or whatever non-gamers. If you play video games, you are a gamer in my book. There are just different types of gamers.

Since I've referenced it several times as my favorite of the new genre that I'd loved to try, here is the link to it.  Most imporantly notice the manufacturer doesn't even call it game even though you shoot things.  They call it a "Motion Ride":

 

https://adrenalinearcade.com/drakons/

 

https://www.betson.com/amusement-products/drakons/

 

[Lord Mushroom]

8 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

While there might be room for some of the most popular classic arcade machines (like a Street Fighter game, House of the Dead 2 and Crazy Taxi) in a modern arcade (at least a large one), I think you would be better off dropping at least the worst performing ones and replacing them with redemption games. The same goes for pinball.

 

Think about it, if your arcade was owned by someone else and you were just the manager, and therefore responsible for their financial well-being, wouldn´t you have done/recommended doing just that?

 

You could also sell some food. For example hot dogs, popcorn, snacks and soda.

[Lord Mushroom]

2 hours ago, TampaBay said:

According to @Shaggy the Atarian, the Orlando location has a section of classic retro games and unfortunately very few people use it.

Does it have some of the most popular games from the 90s, @Shaggy the Atarian, or is it mainly early 80s stuff?

[TampaBay]

7 minutes ago, Lord Mushroom said:

Does it have some of the most popular games from the 90s, @Shaggy the Atarian, or is it mainly early 80s stuff?

To be more accurate, Shaggy said he's seen the space, but wasn't sure if people were using it but the reviews were negative and in similar family fun centers those retro games do not do well.  As stated, the newer version of the Orlando location by me in Tampa Bay did not include that retro section at all   Just wanted to clarify so I don't put words in Shaggy's mouth. 

[Lord Mushroom]

1 minute ago, TampaBay said:

As stated, the newer version of the Orlando location by me in Tampa Bay did not include that retro section at all

If I remember correctly, the newer version was smaller. Perhaps it makes sense to have a few of the most popular classic games if the place is big enough.

[TampaBay]

3 minutes ago, Lord Mushroom said:

If I remember correctly, the newer version was smaller. Perhaps it makes sense to have a few of the most popular classic games if the place is big enough.

I haven't been to the Orlando one so I can't comment on how big it is, but the new one by me in Tampa Bay is positively massive.  It's actually quite shocking when you walk in.  They have a giant arcade, full size bowling alley, indoor adult full-speed go-cart track, laser tag, ropes course and rock climbing, 18-hole glow-in-the-dark mini golf, a full bar and restaurant, and much more.  It's insane.  I actually love it there and go all the time.  It's just a few minutes from my house.

 

https://www.elev8fun.com/tampa

 

 

[Shaggy the Atarian]

Regarding classic arcades performing in FECs @ledzep, there are many I've seen do that, but I've not heard any numbers. Generally that means they're filler and the location is too embarrassed to discuss them. Although oddly enough, I once saw some earnings reports for Xtreme Action Park down in Ft. Lauderdale (super impressive place). Instead of having a special retro area, they just put old and new where ever. None of the retro games were on the earnings list, for some odd reason. 

 

Elev8 Fun Sanford's "Rewind Arcade" was fairly sizable the last time I was there @TampaBay but  games were a bit spaced out instead of packed in close together.  This also brings up the question of how much are these places charging for those games. It's usually not 25c, which I think causes us old timers to scoff. @Lord Mushroom here's an example, mostly 90s IIRC

 

To your point LM, yes if I was smart, I'd have redemption and food but instead I'm an idealist. When I worked at an FEC as a teen, I hated the redemption desk and I hated those "games." I don't see coin pushers as games since you're not actually playing anything - and that's also why stuff like that is in constant legal limbo between games and gambling. 

 

When I setup my arcade, I vowed to do it in a way that was only focused on gaming and fun and I've stuck to that. If redemption isn't there to distract people, they'll play games and I think it's ultimately more fulfilling to spend more than 10 seconds on something as opposed to swiping a card 50 times a minute and walking away with a handful of tickets.

 

I'll be coming up on 16 years in business this June, so I've been successful to some degree. Could I be more successful by doing what everyone else does? Sure. I used to sell arcade machines and I built arcades for people that were typical cookie cutter things with a 60/40 or 70/30 redemption/video mix. I'm just being stubborn and trying to prove a point to myself, I suppose  

 

I mainly don't do food as I have little restaurant experience and the cost to convert my venue into such a place would be enormous (more than I can afford to do). That also changes how I would be taxed. It feels somewhat pointless as I am in a mall, where there are plenty of food options both inside and out.

 

So, my pitch to the public is: Experience a video arcade in its purest form, where you can play games that are both old and new, enjoy some pinball, and find rare or unusual games that you won't get at Dave&Busters, Round1USA, nor the cookie-cutter bowling alley down the hall from me. Some people have expressed surprise and appreciate that we're not a "kiddie casino" like everywhere else, although where I can continue to improve on all that, I'm all ears. Not sure where I can put Asteroids for testing though... 

 

 

[ledzep]

7 hours ago, TampaBay said:

Haha!  This is the best line of this entire thread.  It perfectly summarizes the current situation.  Awesome.

 

Ha, you're welcome, you're free to use that for an arcade location name if you like.  Truth in advertising.

 

7 hours ago, TampaBay said:

As for the idea, while I personally love it, in practice it has apparently been a flop.  The small chain of Family Fun Centers by me has a location in Tampa Bay near my house, and a location in Orlando.  According to @Shaggy the Atarian, the Orlando location has a section of classic retro games and unfortunately very few people use it.  So much so that the brand new location by me didn't even bother to recreate that retro section when they built my location recently.  (See related info below in my response to Lord Mushroom).

4 hours ago, TampaBay said:

I haven't been to the Orlando one so I can't comment on how big it is, but the new one by me in Tampa Bay is positively massive.  It's actually quite shocking when you walk in.  They have a giant arcade, full size bowling alley, indoor adult full-speed go-cart track, laser tag, ropes course and rock climbing, 18-hole glow-in-the-dark mini golf, a full bar and restaurant, and much more.  It's insane.  I actually love it there and go all the time.  It's just a few minutes from my house.

3 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

Regarding classic arcades performing in FECs @ledzep, there are many I've seen do that, but I've not heard any numbers. Generally that means they're filler and the location is too embarrassed to discuss them. Although oddly enough, I once saw some earnings reports for Xtreme Action Park down in Ft. Lauderdale (super impressive place). Instead of having a special retro area, they just put old and new where ever. None of the retro games were on the earnings list, for some odd reason. 

 

I think this is more of what I was talking about.  In the big big places I'm sure there are little sections of nothing, not big enough for the large modern games where a couple old games could be placed here or there.  Not specifically for a "retro arcade", more for like the people who are there as part of a group who just don't like "playing" an slightly interactive movie more than once or twice and would rather play the real version of whatever retro game they have at home.  So it wouldn't be approached as another "official" money-making section of the arcade arcology, just a few games to fill in small areas.  I wish bowling alleys would have 2-4 games in them still, they have the room, it would be a way to pass the time while waiting for a lane to open up.

 

I remember the Shakey's near me, during the arcade game heyday, and before it expanded the back of it to include a bunch of useless redemption carnival games, had like 3 arcade cabs in the little walkway to the restrooms.  Centipede, Sprint 2, can't remember what else, they changed occasionally.  It was great fun for me & my brother while we waited for the pizza or after we were done eating.  Not enough games to "go to Shakey's" specifically to play arcade games (we had real arcades all over town for that... I'm not crying, I have allergies...) but when we were there, game time.  And it also made the decision for which pizza place to go to much easier for our parents, hahaaha.

 

3 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

I'll be coming up on 16 years in business this June, so I've been successful to some degree. Could I be more successful by doing what everyone else does? Sure. I used to sell arcade machines and I built arcades for people that were typical cookie cutter things with a 60/40 or 70/30 redemption/video mix. I'm just being stubborn and trying to prove a point to myself, I suppose  

 

You are a hero, dammit!  Hahahaa, but that brings up another aspect of this whole industry that I don't get but is found everywhere, which is enough money or good money isn't ever enough, these places are always shooting mostest most money.  It's aggravating, something makes money, some, a little, whatever, but that's clearly "not enough" so out it goes in the chase for most money.  I can understand if the whole facility is losing money, changes have to be made to keep the doors open, but if it's doing well with the various modern not-games and the rest (Dave & Buster's), what does it hurt to add a few actual arcade games?  Does that somehow force all the other entertainments to make less money?  No.  So why not have a few in various corners for those people who can stomach a challenge?  Add, not replace, keep the money-making crap there, make money, but also have a few bright lights of real gaming in the darkness of minimally interactive movies.

[ledzep]

8 hours ago, Lord Mushroom said:

I think it is wrong to call modern gamers or casual gamers or whatever non-gamers. If you play video games, you are a gamer in my book. There are just different types of gamers.

 

Well, if what they're playing isn't really a game, more of an interactive ride, and they reject actual games that are right next to the "rides" in the same arcade, what are you expecting them to be called?  It's like saying people who only listen to audio books should still be called readers.  Uh, no.

[Shaggy the Atarian]

48 minutes ago, ledzep said:

So why not have a few in various corners for those people who can stomach a challenge?

That's exactly why I've invested a lot into the exA-Arcadia stuff - I have two of those cabinets, and its the only place where I can get some challenging new/retro, fighting, and shmup games. Unfortunately, they don't get as much play as I'd like to see, but I'll keep at it  

[Lord Mushroom]

Drakons is a game. A stupid game, but a game. It is a lightgun game, where you stupidly can´t die, but you get scores. Sure, the high scores are not saved, but they are used to compete with any other players playing at the time, and can give bragging rights to witnessing friends.

[Lord Mushroom]

5 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

So, my pitch to the public is: Experience a video arcade in its purest form, where you can play games that are both old and new, enjoy some pinball, and find rare or unusual games that you won't get at Dave&Busters, Round1USA, nor the cookie-cutter bowling alley down the hall from me. Some people have expressed surprise and appreciate that we're not a "kiddie casino" like everywhere else, although where I can continue to improve on all that, I'm all ears.

I will try:

 

1) Get rid of the games that perform horribly. Use the free space to either get more modern games (for money) or more popular classic games (for more retro play). The latter typically means replacing games from the 80s with games from the 90s.

 

2) Get Pac-Man´s Pixel Bash. That will allow you to offer a lot of good early 80s games at a low cost without taking up much space. It won´t make a lot of money, but it will greatly help in meeting the "offer old games" part.

 

3) Offer video redemption games. Some video redemption games are good enough to give kids a good gaming experience. Space Invaders Frenzy and Centipede Chaos are two examples. I am sure there are other decent video redemption games as well.

 

We make fun of Space Invaders Frenzy for being a dumb version of Space Invaders, but for kids it is a fun lightgun game, just with different graphics from the ones you already have.

 

Centipede Chaos retains the core of the original gameplay, and is a way to introduce kids to this old school gameplay that Centipede never will.

 

It is up to you what prizes they can choose from. The prizes could be something you find more suitable than a stuffed animal and a keychain. Something they will enjoy, and at the same time have a positive influence on their lives. One prize could be to choose from a selection of comic books you approve of.

 

Redemption doesn´t have to be a soul sucking quest for crap. By offering a good video redemption experience, you would be saving kids from a bad redemption experience in a competing arcade. Make an arcade that kids want to go to, and that parents are happy to go with them to.

 

Even though you would have to sacrifice (almost all) the classic games and pinball machines, and maybe some of the worst performing new games, to make room for video redemption games, there is no need to feel bad. There are plenty of retro arcades/barcades for people who want to play old school games. Trying to persuade young people to play old games is a fool´s errand. Allow yourself to make some money for a change, and be proud of the joy you will be bringing to the kids in doing so.

[Shaggy the Atarian]

1 hour ago, Lord Mushroom said:

I will try:

 

1) Get rid of the games that perform horribly. Use the free space to either get more modern games (for money) or more popular classic games (for more retro play). The latter typically means replacing games from the 80s with games from the 90s.

 

2) Get Pac-Man´s Pixel Bash. That will allow you to offer a lot of good early 80s games at a low cost without taking up much space. It won´t make a lot of money, but it will greatly help in meeting the "offer old games" part.

 

3) Offer video redemption games. Some video redemption games are good enough to give kids a good gaming experience. Space Invaders Frenzy and Centipede Chaos are two examples. I am sure there are other decent video redemption games as well.

 

We make fun of Space Invaders Frenzy for being a dumb version of Space Invaders, but for kids it is a fun lightgun game, just with different graphics from the ones you already have.

 

Centipede Chaos retains the core of the original gameplay, and is a way to introduce kids to this old school gameplay that Centipede never will.

 

It is up to you what prizes they can choose from. The prizes could be something you find more suitable than a stuffed animal and a keychain. Something they will enjoy, and at the same time have a positive influence on their lives. One prize could be to choose from a selection of comic books you approve of.

 

You would make a good arcade sales consultant.  My brother who is essentially a business partner (just not in a legal sense) is cool with this route - although time for me to counter.  Perhaps it would help for me to provide more context.

 

Retro stuff isn't really an attempt to persuade young people to play anything, it's more "what can I do differently than everyone else around here?" and add some indirect income appeal. We do get families every day, so having the retro stuff appeals to the parents...but of course, most of the coins get dumped into the newer games by the kids

 

As things stand at the moment, I'm spending most resources servicing debt, so I can't really splurge. As you mention, selling off a bunch of the poorer stuff like retro and pins can help there, however, the debt is such and the pricing of good earning redemption games (regular and videmption) are so high that I wouldn't get very far. Perhaps if pricing came back down to 2019 levels it might, but there's no indication that will happen soon. 

 

Assuming I did sell off all of the pins, I'd still have to completely rebuild my space for toys, which is expensive - or I could spend about the same amount on a Prize Hub, which allows a location to offer the toys without an attendant. I think those run for $13k~20K, depending on the configuration. I've not looked into how much it costs to buy all of the toys, but it would be a few thousand at least for some decent stuff. 

 

Note that we do have a few "instant prize" machines - a couple of cranes and a couple of what are called merchandizers. These do pretty well and I prefer those since it eliminates the middle man of a ticket. I also have considered getting a new Sega piece called Skill Fall Revolution. 

 

I already cut out the poorest performers, usually only keep them around for a year, two tops, unless there's a reason I need filled space. But its always good to analyze things in a more recent sense and look at what needs to go. I also have a couple of multi-game Pac-Man/Ms. Pac-Man machines. I did think about a Pixel Bash but with what I've got, no need to waste any more on that since it won't make much of a difference. 

We do have a couple of videmption games on hand but, to give you a better idea of the costs there, Space Invaders or Bust-A-Move Frenzy are both well above $10k. More traditional redemption can get crazy - as high as $73,000 for a new Wizard of Oz pusher. There's also a new crane machine that costs in the $50k~60k range. They earn great, but doesn't mean it's a guaranteed hit every where that one is found, as they are made for high-traffic FECS...and there is such a place down the hall from me, which I'll get into in a second.

 

Of course there are much cheaper games out there, and used, but the averages on redemption equipment are much higher than video at present. Skill Fall is a cheaper one, and there's a lot of cheap Chinese crap, but the latter is always filled with regrets since the machines can barely last a month or two without breaking down. We've tried some in the past that were variations, such as a Doodle Jump game that did gift cards and Pirate Hook game that did capsules(I remember when a local retro game collector freaked out and wrote a scathing review of my place simply because a single Doodle Jump was on site. He never came back, what a nice guy he was). They did ok but as you mention, you have to go all in and get a bunch of new stuff, or it doesn't appeal.

 

 If I sell all of my pinball machines, I would then destroy the reputation I've built up with the local pinball player community. They hold 2-3 tournaments in our space a month, which is nice and gives other games a good boost. But I'm not at the point where I'm ready to burn that bridge yet. As a random note, pinball has tried over and over again to slap redemption onto it, or even make dumbed down, redemption focused pin designs. They've all been flops. 

 

Quote

Redemption doesn´t have to be a soul sucking quest for crap. By offering a good video redemption experience, you would be saving kids from a bad redemption experience in a competing arcade. Make an arcade that kids want to go to, and that parents are happy to go with them to.

 

Even though you would have to sacrifice (almost all) the classic games and pinball machines, and maybe some of the worst performing new games, to make room for video redemption games, there is no need to feel bad. There are plenty of retro arcades/barcades for people who want to play old school games. Trying to persuade young people to play old games is a fool´s errand. Allow yourself to make some money for a change, and be proud of the joy you will be bringing to the kids in doing so.

Unfortunately it is a suck quest as the games are all designed to be as dumb and short as is possible to bilk people out of credits. Trying to change people's attitudes about chasing stupid cheap prizes that they forget about the moment they get into the car would also be a fools errand, but I understand what you're saying. 

 

One problem with videmption is that most of those games start off really strong, then six months later, most are no where to be found. The soul sucking part of the redemption industry - coin/marble pushers, ticket cranes and quick coin games - all command a strong lead that takes years to die off. Sometimes, there are ancient games like Big Bass Wheel which still make bank today, but nothing like that is comparable in the videmption space.

 

Within the same mall, there's a multi-million dollar FEC called All Star Entertainment. They've got a big redemption arcade, maybe about 60% redemption, 40% video; Laser tag, a bar, bumper cars, bowling lanes, party rooms. They also have multiple locations and regularly rotate equipment out between them (a Space Invaders Frenzy is a part of their line-up here, last I walked through there). 

 

Since they opened in 2019, this has created a dilemma for me, as they can easily afford to buy anything and everything that's a top earner on the market, or buy stuff I can't afford, like that WOZ pusher I mentioned (which they have). I know their sales guy and he focuses entirely on the top earners. There are a couple of repeats on the video side between us, where I can sort of beat them on price. But even then, my repeats have gone down in earnings, so it comes back to "how can I distinguish myself from them within the tiny budget I have?"

 

Retro is one way, pinball another, then games that they don't seem to touch. For some weird reason, they almost never buy Sega. Not sure why that is(probably personal preference from their sales guy), but as you might have noticed from my earnings, they don't make as much as Raw Thrills anyways. Every new RT piece is something that they get, however- I expect to see a $50k Godzilla VR there any day now.

 

I've tried to get more stuff that they'll never buy, like the Maximum Tune (which has done well), or Enter The Gungeon (which hasn't done well, but that's because the hardware is crap and the software is buggy)

 

If I were to go that route, the sensible strategy would be to focus more on videmption games that they don't have; then I'm just left more with ones that aren't the top performers, unless we try repeats and see if I can beat them on price. Or, move out of the mall and start over somewhere else. 

 

One thing I would like to do at one point that has worked out well, is buying more non-ticket kids games. There are a few out there, including one I have at my space called Hot Racers. Unfortunately, that exact game has been down for a while as it was Chinese made and just about everything on it, including both monitors, have crapped out. When it works, it makes bank, even without tickets - as I see adults playing it as much as the kids do.

 

The main problem is that there aren't a ton of non-Chinese choices in this space, but, there are more and more "kidtainment" options starting to pop up out there, such as this:

 

I suppose from those videos I shared, it sounds like I'm teetering on bankruptcy, but it's not anywhere near that. Yes things are a little tough due to debts accumulated from surviving 2020, but I've been making it work. As mentioned, I already have planned on expanding a little more on instant prize redemption and kids games when I can; Another thing that will give us a giant boost is getting off of tokens and switching to a card system. Those tend to cause any locations earnings to go up by 20-25%. Unfortunately, the cheapest system I can find starts at $25k and goes up from there and as mentioned, I can't bring on new debt at the exact moment. Some of that will be paid off this year though, so once it is, I'll take a look at what is most pressing.  

 

Addendum: Another thing I should add at some point is Skeeball. That destroys pinball no matter which location you find it in. My sports games like basketball machines also do very well.

Edited March 25 by Shaggy the Atarian

[TampaBay]

13 minutes ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

You would make a good arcade sales consultant.  My brother who is essentially a business partner (just not in a legal sense) is cool with this route - although time for me to counter.  Perhaps it would help for me to provide more context.

 

Retro stuff isn't really an attempt to persuade young people to play anything, it's more "what can I do differently than everyone else around here?" and add some indirect income appeal. We do get families every day, so having the retro stuff appeals to the parents...but of course, most of the coins get dumped into the newer games by the kids

 

As things stand at the moment, I'm spending most resources servicing debt, so I can't really splurge. As you mention, selling off a bunch of the poorer stuff like retro and pins can help there, however, the debt is such and the pricing of good earning redemption games (regular and videmption) are so high that I wouldn't get very far. Perhaps if pricing came back down to 2019 levels it might, but there's no indication that will happen soon. 

 

Assuming I did sell off all of the pins, I'd still have to completely rebuild my space for toys, which is expensive - or I could spend about the same amount on a Prize Hub, which allows a location to offer the toys without an attendant. I think those run for $13k~20K, depending on the configuration. I've not looked into how much it costs to buy all of the toys, but it would be a few thousand at least for some decent stuff. 

 

Note that we do have a few "instant prize" machines - a couple of cranes and a couple of what are called merchandizers. These do pretty well and I prefer those since it eliminates the middle man of a ticket. I also have considered getting a new Sega piece called Skill Fall Revolution. 

 

I already cut out the poorest performers, usually only keep them around for a year, two tops, unless there's a reason I need filled space. But its always good to analyze things in a more recent sense and look at what needs to go. I also have a couple of multi-game Pac-Man/Ms. Pac-Man machines. I did think about a Pixel Bash but with what I've got, no need to waste any more on that since it won't make much of a difference. 

We do have a couple of videmption games on hand but, to give you a better idea of the costs there, Space Invaders or Bust-A-Move Frenzy are both well above $10k. More traditional redemption can get crazy - as high as $73,000 for a new Wizard of Oz pusher. There's also a new crane machine that costs in the $50k~60k range. They earn great, but doesn't mean it's a guaranteed hit every where that one is found, as they are made for high-traffic FECS...and there is such a place down the hall from me, which I'll get into in a second.

 

Of course there are much cheaper games out there, and used, but the averages on redemption equipment are much higher than video at present. Skill Fall is a cheaper one, and there's a lot of cheap Chinese crap, but the latter is always filled with regrets since the machines can barely last a month or two without breaking down. We've tried some in the past that were variations, such as a Doodle Jump game that did gift cards and Pirate Hook game that did capsules(I remember when a local retro game collector freaked out and wrote a scathing review of my place simply because a single Doodle Jump was on site. He never came back, what a nice guy he was). They did ok but as you mention, you have to go all in and get a bunch of new stuff, or it doesn't appeal.

 

 If I sell all of my pinball machines, I would then destroy the reputation I've built up with the local pinball player community. They hold 2-3 tournaments in our space a month, which is nice and gives other games a good boost. But I'm not at the point where I'm ready to burn that bridge yet. As a random note, pinball has tried over and over again to slap redemption onto it, or even make dumbed down, redemption focused pin designs. They've all been flops. 

 

Unfortunately it is a suck quest as the games are all designed to be as dumb and short as is possible to bilk people out of credits. Trying to change people's attitudes about chasing stupid cheap prizes that they forget about the moment they get into the car would also be a fools errand, but I understand what you're saying. 

 

One problem with videmption is that most of those games start off really strong, then six months later, most are no where to be found. The soul sucking part of the redemption industry - coin/marble pushers, ticket cranes and quick coin games - all command a strong lead that takes years to die off. Sometimes, there are ancient games like Big Bass Wheel which still make bank today, but nothing like that is comparable in the videmption space.

 

Within the same mall, there's a multi-million dollar FEC called All Star Entertainment. They've got a big redemption arcade, maybe about 60% redemption, 40% video; Laser tag, a bar, bumper cars, bowling lanes, party rooms. They also have multiple locations and regularly rotate equipment out between them (a Space Invaders Frenzy is a part of their line-up here, last I walked through there). 

 

Since they opened in 2019, this has created a dilemma for me, as they can easily afford to buy anything and everything that's a top earner on the market, or buy stuff I can't afford, like that WOZ pusher I mentioned (which they have). I know their sales guy and he focuses entirely on the top earners. There are a couple of repeats on the video side between us, where I can sort of beat them on price. But even then, my repeats have gone down in earnings, so it comes back to "how can I distinguish myself from them within the tiny budget I have?"

 

Retro is one way, pinball another, then games that they don't seem to touch. For some weird reason, they almost never buy Sega. Not sure why that is(probably personal preference from their sales guy), but as you might have noticed from my earnings, they don't make as much as Raw Thrills anyways. Every new RT piece is something that they get, however- I expect to see a $50k Godzilla VR there any day now.

 

I've tried to get more stuff that they'll never buy, like the Maximum Tune (which has done well), or Enter The Gungeon (which hasn't done well, but that's because the hardware is crap and the software is buggy)

 

If I were to go that route, the sensible strategy would be to focus more on videmption games that they don't have; then I'm just left more with ones that aren't the top performers, unless we try repeats and see if I can beat them on price. Or, move out of the mall and start over somewhere else. 

 

One thing I would like to do at one point that has worked out well, is buying more non-ticket kids games. There are a few out there, including one I have at my space called Hot Racers. Unfortunately, that exact game has been down for a while as it was Chinese made and just about everything on it, including both monitors, have crapped out. When it works, it makes bank, even without tickets - as I see adults playing it as much as the kids do.

 

The main problem is that there aren't a ton of non-Chinese choices in this space, but, there are more and more "kidtainment" options starting to pop up out there, such as this:

 

I suppose from those videos I shared, it sounds like I'm teetering on bankruptcy, but it's not anywhere near that. Yes things are a little tough due to debts accumulated from surviving 2020, but I've been making it work. As mentioned, I already have planned on expanding a little more on instant prize redemption and kids games when I can; Another thing that will give us a giant boost is getting off of tokens and switching to a card system. Those tend to cause any locations earnings to go up by 20-25%. Unfortunately, the cheapest system I can find starts at $25k and goes up from there and as mentioned, I can't bring on new debt at the exact moment. Some of that will be paid off this year though, so once it is, I'll take a look at what is most pressing.  

 

Addendum: Another thing I should add at some point is Skeeball. That destroys pinball no matter which location you find it in. My sports games like basketball machines also do very well.

I appreciate your insight so much.  Just wanted to say that.  For me, as someone who frequents arcades all the time (both retro and FEC) it's fascinating to see a more insider look through your honest writings.  Thanks for that. 

[ledzep]

16 minutes ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

The main problem is that there aren't a ton of non-Chinese choices in this space, but, there are more and more "kidtainment" options starting to pop up out there, such as this:

 

 

 

Hahaha, that thing makes Dragon's Lair look like Star Raiders in terms of controlling the game.  I don't know how young I'd have to be to want to play that game.  Man, the crap you guys have to tolerate to make money, I sympathize.

[Shaggy the Atarian]

17 minutes ago, ledzep said:

 

Hahaha, that thing makes Dragon's Lair look like Star Raiders in terms of controlling the game.  I don't know how young I'd have to be to want to play that game.  Man, the crap you guys have to tolerate to make money, I sympathize.

If it makes you feel any better, my best earning game doesn't play itself for you or anything of the sort. While this isn't Gran Turismo, it does require more than "sit down, shut up and "have fun"" With this being a success, I'd say there is still hope out there  

 

 

[Giles N]

@Shaggy the Atarian

 

How many of your arcades, pinbalks and other machines are operated by cash or card per play?

 

How are these machines operated these days as to payment-method?

[Shaggy the Atarian]

2 minutes ago, Giles N said:

@Shaggy the Atarian

 

How many of your arcades, pinbalks and other machines are operated by cash or card per play?

 

How are these machines operated these days as to payment-method?

Most arcades out there use card systems to pay for games, thus the term "coin-op gaming" really doesn't apply anymore. I'm still on tokens though, where I charge between 1-5 tokens per play. Only game that's at 5 is Minecraft Dungeons, due to the collectible cards it vends. Otherwise, average charge is 2 tokens per game. 

 

If I sound crazy for being so cheap, it's also because I have some competition in the area, NickelCade which is just a few blocks away, then Nickel Mania. Both of those places charge an entry fee, then nickels for the games themselves. Nickel Mania has a card system though and they do very well. Between them setting expectations for arcades being cheap, to FECs like the one down the hall, I try and find a middle range. Once I can get a card system though, that will help me not only make more but also find ways to do special deals to make it more enticing to come in.