The 400 Controller Mod/Design Chat

[Zonie]

Mine arrived today. Thankfully in a box, not a bag because it has been raining off and on all week which is weird for Arizona.

The CXStick is hard as a brick and the ring buttons are very sensitive and easily bumped. OK, It sucks. Glad they were out of stock so I didn't buy more yet.

 

I'm probably going to make an arcade controller using the board from a stick or maybe put a multipin connector (HD15 or perhaps something smaller) on it mapped to the buttons and positions as a hub for whatever I can come up with.

 

I'll have to get an idea of what buttons do what in games to determine layout.

 

So, 4 stick positions plus the 4 ring buttons and 4 Action buttons.

• Maybe a dual arcade stick with 4 action buttons
• A stick and the four on the ring in a diamond pattern with four arcade buttons
• If the ring button positions don't really matter, then maybe an 8-button box with a regular CX40 will do the trick. Plug the box into the CXStick, and the CX40 original into that.
• Perhaps hack a 10-key kepyad like this to work with a CX40
• Could also hack one of the Video Touch Pad controllers
  • Opens opportunity to then make overlays
    • A generic overlay/mapping:
      • The ring buttons at 2,4,6 & 8 for Up, Left, Right & Down
      • The three across the bottom (*, 0 & #) all mapped to the front corner
      • The unused top (1 & 3) buttons mapped to the front side buttons
      • The usual CX40 fire button doing the usual duty
      • And printed like the top of the CXStick with the front unfolded
    • Game specific overlays can be made
    • A standard mapping would probably need to be agreed upon for it to work for everyone.
    • Using the VTP to play Star Raiders on a 400 would be ironic...
• A SNES controller could also be hacked to work. Seems to be the new old school standard. The Commander X16, the Chameleon (would have), SNES2Atari, etc. It's popular and you can still buy clones new.
  • It has a joypad.
  • Four buttons for the ring.
  • Two action buttons for the fire button and the bottom corner.
  • The two in the center for the two on the front.

 

 

What Y'all think?

 

 

Edited April 2 by Zonie

[Zonie]

@Ben from Plaion Any chance Atari will make the PCB in the CXStick available to buy as a part or perhaps the schematic and any code or protocol for its USB? (Not likely)?

[pjedavison]

All you need to really do is make an Xinput(?) compatible controller and lay it out/label the buttons however you want. The manual lists the "button equivalents" for various standards of controller, though I don't know if it's open to having additional buttons on top of the 8 it's expecting.

If you have a means of getting it to send keyboard signals as well as joystick, you could even take Option (F5)/Select (F6)/Start (F7) buttons off the main "action buttons" and give them their own dedicated buttons.

[Spanner]

When I made the PCUAE Joystick shortcuts Button script I mapped out every button in Linux so I knew what each button is called and I kept it in its script, just added the RGLs Atari CXSTICK too,
This might help some one:

#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# Whats the Joystick code is, just incase I need it for something.
#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# THEGamepad -                Y            B            A          X         LSB         RSB       Menu        Home
# THEC64 Joystick -         LFire        Rfire       TLfire      TRfire       A           B          C         Menu
# ATARI CXSTICK   -       Ring Right  Ring Up(TOP)    Fire     Ring Left  Ring Down   S Button      Menu       Home      
# Joy2key BASH Code -        0xd          0x9          1           2         3           4           5          6
# The Linux Evtest -     BTN_TRIGGER   BTN_THUMB   BTN_THUMB2   BTN_TOP   BTN_TOP2   BTN_PINKIE   BTN_BASE   BTN_BASE2
#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Edited April 2 by Spanner

[Spanner]

8 hours ago, Zonie said:

@Ben from Plaion Any chance Atari will make the PCB in the CXStick available to buy as a part or perhaps the schematic and any code or protocol for its USB? (Not likely)?

Its down to RGL, they designed it not PLAION, they only manufactured it by using there design.

[Spanner]

I remember using the old Atari CX Joysticks on the Atari 2600 and on the XEGS System, they were gray and the rubber part of the stick always coming off them and coming out of the ring...

[pjedavison]

Yeah, back on our original Atari 8-bits we ditched the CX40 pretty quick in favour of stuff like the Wico Command Control and Zipstik

[Ben from Plaion]

9 hours ago, Zonie said:

@Ben from Plaion Any chance Atari will make the PCB in the CXStick available to buy as a part or perhaps the schematic and any code or protocol for its USB? (Not likely)?

These kind of questions need to be directed to RGL. They are the publisher of the product and I can't really speak on their behalf.  I will forward the message on though.

 

Judging by the history of their machines, RGL have never sold component parts like PCBs separately.

[pjedavison]

1 hour ago, Ben from Plaion said:

These kind of questions need to be directed to RGL. They are the publisher of the product and I can't really speak on their behalf.  I will forward the message on though.

 

Judging by the history of their machines, RGL have never sold component parts like PCBs separately.

Can you tell 'em to fix M.U.L.E. and up the maximum screen height to 240 while you've got them on the horn, please?

[Zonie]

5 hours ago, pjedavison said:

All you need to really do is make an Xinput(?) compatible controller and lay it out/label the buttons however you want. The manual lists the "button equivalents" for various standards of controller, though I don't know if it's open to having additional buttons on top of the 8 it's expecting.

If you have a means of getting it to send keyboard signals as well as joystick, you could even take Option (F5)/Select (F6)/Start (F7) buttons off the main "action buttons" and give them their own dedicated buttons.

Ahh. Yes. I figured that there was some standard they used. Thank you!

 

This is what I was hoping for. I can probably use an Arduino.

2 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

These kind of questions need to be directed to RGL. They are the publisher of the product and I can't really speak on their behalf.  I will forward the message on though.

 

Judging by the history of their machines, RGL have never sold component parts like PCBs separately.

Gotcha. Thanks

Edited April 2 by Zonie

[+Torq]

While my CXStick is working fine, and I've gotten to the point where I am not pressing buttons accidentally, I was thinking about using the internal board to make a stick using proper arcade controls.  The CXStick board has exposed test points for all the necessary buttons/directions, so it would be easy to solder in the necessary connections.

 

BUT, if it really is just an X-Input device that the 400 expects, then something like this is probably easier.  At least assuming it works the way I think it does - i.e., mapping the incoming arcade switches to a USB-B output to connect to the gaming device/PC.  I've ordered one to find out.  Partly because I don't want to use my current CXStick as the board donor until I can get a 2nd one, and the board I ordered is available now.

 

...

 

A bit more thinking on this ... and one thing I've decided to do is to repurpose my old ION iCade - since it's not much use with iPads anymore (most of the games have moved to stupid subscription models, and/or have broken their iCade support).  It has a useable 8-way stick and exactly 8 buttons.  So, I'll gut it of it's current Bluetooth internals, stick a 9" HDMI screen in it, plop an 400Mini and an AGSP board in there (so it can run both), and use it as a mini-arcade for the Atari stuff (and some Arcade games via the AGSP).  I'll have to bring out the USB connections and microSD port, but that can be done with short extension cables rather than modifying the boards.

 

 

[Ben from Plaion]

1 hour ago, pjedavison said:

Can you tell 'em to fix M.U.L.E. and up the maximum screen height to 240 while you've got them on the horn, please?

I will, but cant it be done manually on the settings screen 

 

[pjedavison]

Just now, Ben from Plaion said:

I will, but cant it be done manually on the settings screen 

 

Nope. The Display Height setting doesn't go up to 240 (max is 210 or thereabouts?), which means some stuff that uses the overscan border is cut off unless you manually tweak the .cfg files on the USB stick. Width is fine, but some more available height is needed for some games and demos. To go along with that, "Vertical offset" should also be able to drop down to zero, whereas IIRC 10 is the minimum at the mo.

[Ben from Plaion]

19 minutes ago, pjedavison said:

Nope. The Display Height setting doesn't go up to 240 (max is 210 or thereabouts?), which means some stuff that uses the overscan border is cut off unless you manually tweak the .cfg files on the USB stick. Width is fine, but some more available height is needed for some games and demos. To go along with that, "Vertical offset" should also be able to drop down to zero, whereas IIRC 10 is the minimum at the mo.

I see. I'll pass on the message. 

[+Torq]

After some playing around with other, compatible, controllers ... it seems that anything not plugged into port 1 will not let you move or fire in game (though you can navigate the carousel etc.), and remapping the controls doesn't work beyond U, D, L, R and Fire.

 

Another X-Input controller, even in port 1, doesn't let me remap enough inputs (they're not all selectable in the mapping UI) to cover U, D, L, R, F, T, E, W, S, and 2 - despite there being sufficient buttons on the controller AND them being available to other software.

 

So, unless there's a clever trick with the "gamecontrollerdb.txt" that I can't figure out (I've created what I believe is a correct custom entry, and it seems to work fine ... up until you try and remap it in game), I think I'm going to have to build my stick using a board from the CXSTICK after all.  Now I just have to find a couple ...

[skel28]

I'm messing with a Pico and trying this setup wired to a 9pin d-sub and some push buttons but can't for the life of me work out the settings or even where to put the gamecontrollerdb.txt file so I can't get left to work on the carousel.

 

https://gp2040-ce.info

 

This code has options for various mini consoles so I'm hoping they will add the 400 mini.

 

[+Torq]

Parts finally (was supposed to be next-day ...) came in to do the X-Input -> USB conversion of the ION iCade controller rebuild (from its current proprietary Bluetooth interface).  So, with a little luck I'll have a working version of that sometime tomorrow (won't include adding a screen to the iCade - that'll come after).  

 

If that works properly, and gives me proper, in-game, access to all 8 buttons the CXSTICK supports (it's iffy, it seems, with some controllers), I'll keep it there.  If not - then I'll ADD interfacing via an actual CXSTICK board (and will likely make that switchable, so both modes are available).  Though to to do that, I still need to source a couple of CXSTICKs ...

[+Torq]

On a slightly different track ... I decided to do a separate stick, inspired by the CX40, the THE400 Mini, the Gamestation Pro etc., before tackling the iCade "self-contained system" build.

 

After an afternoon of fiddling, most of which was spent on graphics (because that's not my thing):

 

 

I might do a thread/build-log/tutorial on the whole thing, as that's going to entail splicing the board from a CXSTICK into this unit - in a manner that lets the stick either use the CXSTICK board for output, or the standard Mayflash V500 V2 board (which supports all the systems listed on that bottom line/graphic) but so far it's just modding of an existing stick (Mayflash F500 V2).  Nothing involved, to this point, beyond a couple of screwdrivers, a color printer, and a handful of Sanwa and Arcade Shock parts (if you were happy with the default look, you could keep the standard parts).

 

Better pictures (polarizing filter, DSLR rather than cellphone, other angles, board/wiring shots etc.) to follow, along with details of incorporating the CXSTICK board into the unit, so it works as one natively with THE400 Mini, and better quality art (printed this on my color laser, mostly as a test-fit, but will re-do on the big photo-printer for the final version - along with adjusting some spacing etc.).

 

Of note so far, is that the Mayflash F500 V2 is VERY accommodating for modding.  Dual sets of joystick connections ... one 8-pin, one 5 pin (Sanwa standard),  JST connections.  Grounds are 100% common throughout (so you only need to tie into one, which will be VERY helpful for integrating the CXSTICK's board).  Enough space for internal USB A-B conversion.  And no need to give up any of the units native features/connectivity to do any of this.