Sid Pokey Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 I have an ongoing project of bringing my beloved 800XL back up and running to feed my nostalgia pains. Sadly, the 1050 and the 1010 are both dead-ish. Will cover that another time probably. For now though, I'm looking for an SD card solution. Almost all the files I have are in ATR format. So looking for something SIO based rather than cartridge based. Which would seem to narrow that down to the SDrive Max or the Fujinet. What are the pros and cons of each? Is there any ATR compatibility issues with either of them? And one has a touchscreen and one has wireless connectivity, both of which seems a little gimmicky? Other questions may follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 (edited) Just get a Fujinet. I received mine a week ago and I am blown away. Easily the best purchase I have made for my 600XL since..well my 600XL. It is all the Sdrive Max is and then some. Bringing the ability to launch software from other peoples servers is amazing. And, I set up my own local server hosting all of my software so I didn't even need to buy another microSD card. I am by no means a Fujinet guru and I am quite new to it, but I did come from an Sdrive Max and a SIO2PC before and I can tell you the Fujinet is where its at. Forget the stupid Sdrive touch screen. I literally never used it. Edited April 5 by eightbit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevymad Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 I don't even use the sd card on my fujinets. I set up a server on my home pc which is on all the time anyway. Now the same files are available at every Atari with a fujinet. I can also log into someone else's server and grab files from there. Once in awhile you will find a file that fujinet doesn't like. Some on Fandal's site have a restart bug with fujinet. I don't have a sdrive max, but do have an old sdrive nuxx. It's super dependable. If something doesn't work with any of my other drives, the nuxx always seems to work. It's just not as handy since you have to move the sd card back and forth to load files. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 AVG or subAVG cart 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Just now, chevymad said: I don't even use the sd card on my fujinets. I'm not using it currently either, but I am still glad it's there, "just in case" I haven't played hundreds of games or applications on it, but for the few dozen I have played this far it seems to work just like any other prior device. I also like the "SAM" voice that speaks when you swap drives. The feature can be turned off, but I left that on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 (edited) I forgot to add that I had purchased the Devkit version: https://www.ebay.com/itm/134990839520 Which I believe is being made in small batches by a user in these forums @Jfcatari? Nice device, really nice build quality with a real SIO cable. It was a bit cheaper than the standard version and from what I am to understand has half the flash (8MB vs 16MB) which I don't think matters for normal operation. It does not have the SIO pass through so it would have to be connected last in the SIO chain if you have other devices, but it works for me as all I have is my 600XL and this. More on the Devkit version here: https://github.com/djtersteegc/fujinet-devkit-shield Edited April 5 by eightbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Easily the best all in one bang for the buck way to go is AVG and SubAVG carts, grab the SIO and PBI or eci cord and you have almost everything covered without tearing your Atari Apart aside from the occasional Atari that has speed limit caps still on the SIO. If you have the need for SIO speed that is. And if you want to, you can get another goody to plug into it for stereo sound choices! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 11 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said: Easily the best all in one bang for the buck way to go is AVG and SubAVG carts, grab the SIO and PBI or eci cord and you have almost everything covered without tearing your Atari Apart aside from the occasional Atari that has speed limit caps still on the SIO. If you have the need for SIO speed that is. And if you want to, you can get another goody to plug into it for stereo sound choices! I am not very familiar with these carts. Do they support wifi and TNFS servers? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 I got an AVG cart first then the SubAVG cart - both fantastic devices. I decided to dip my toe with a Fujinet and I dont use my AVG carts anymore. I recently setup a TNFS server so I can add new games and such without having to deal with an SD card. The SubAVG cart has the advantage of giving you a memory upgrade but for just playing images the Fujinet is excellent if you can find it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 (edited) They support holding everything your TNFS server can locally with the added bonus almost EVERYTHING will actually run. They act as memory expansions also that allow almost everything new to run as well, the support DISKs, Cassette images, and Cartridge images including stacking cartridges, they support Audio like stereo pokey and others. The only thing the Fujinet does well enough is a few apps to check the weather, and news etc. The TNFS server is useful enough to get disks etc. but I find to truly make use of it all you need what the AVG and SubAVG carts have to offer. I use a FlashAir SD card to send what I want to the AVG's. I use the FujiNet to do a few things like I mentioned it also does a card game but it never really works well for me, times out takes forever to get around the table... that's why the card games are almost always empty The only thing impressive at the moment is a polish online desktop via the net, I don't think my wireless lantronixs can pull that off. If you want to have a chance at competing in the online racing games you need a dragon cart for ethernet. You aren't going to play or do much on a plain vanilla 600XL with a Fujinet. The loader still needs work in any event. Edited April 5 by _The Doctor__ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 It looks like a fantastic cart otherwise with support for various image types and the RAM upgrade is great. I could care less about the stereo sound (same on the C64) however. No wifi is a complete dealbreaker at least for me. Connecting to servers and launching apps that take advantage of it is just pure awesomeness. Now that I have a taste of that I just can't go back to offline mode. There are just so many possibilities now with that technology in place. And, as Goochman said, no more swapping around SD cards. I can download new stuff right to my TNFS server folder and away I go. What a convenience! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 (edited) I don't swap SD card, FlashAir is wifi / access point built into the SD card, I simply send it to the card on the wireless network. Like I said, Fujinet does TNFS well. I guess if you want all the other limitations and want to play a games that get along with it, It's all good. I am on the umpteenth fujinet and it's never quite worked out for me. I guess the only good FujiNets are from @mozzwald direct or maybe @lotharek , maybe @Jfcatari The lesser memory machines will play cart images usually without a memory upgrade but fujinet is not going to do a thing for you in that realm. If you want online gaming without the hiccups get a dragon. If you want news, weather, apod, TNFS, etc, or remote desk like gui the fuji is great. Sam is ok, and cpm is sorta almost there. Everything still seems so proof of concept, perhaps I should try the next next next firmware. If you get the FujiNet make sure you have at least 64K memory minimum Edited April 5 by _The Doctor__ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Fujinet is the best value for the money to interface with the thing over wifi in a convenient way....at least best way I have seen so far. I am not sure if there are good and bad Fujinets as they all should to my knowledge conform to the project standards. But I could be wrong and have known to be on occasion For memory in my case I use one of these in my 600XL: https://www.ebay.com/itm/276392081087 All I know is the combo of the Devkit Fujinet, 600XL and this memory upgrade really makes using the machine a dream. I've had a great deal of fun with it so far. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 The OP didn't say it must be wifi this or that, The FujiNet currently is only good at what I said it was, for most people the better choice has been one of carts AVG and variants being some of the best. They are the gateway to SpartaDOS X or all of the productivity carts, they simply do everything short of wifi the best across the board so far with the sound options improving each few weeks. The FujiNet makes a nice companion for what it currently specifically does depending on which firmware you are running and like best. I included links for it but didn't for AVG, which I should do. https://avgcart.tmp.sk/ https://miscretro.com/product/avgcart/ https://retrolemon.co.uk/atari-8bit-storage-devices/125-avgcart.html https://mozzwald.com/product-category/atari/ https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=374 https://www.ebay.com/itm/175746919248 always compare them for build quality and what else you will need to make it a good item, like power supply to get started for fujinet or add on cords for avg carts etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Spanish Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 (edited) 6 hours ago, Sid Pokey said: So looking for something SIO based rather than cartridge based. Then you can't go wrong with the S-Drive MAX. Especially with ATR/ATX/CAS/XEX. No CAR however. Simple to use. SD card is more than enough to store every software title made & then some. There's sites out there that basic has every cart ever made in .XEX format. Fujinet for me anyways not much of the extra features I'd use, like going online which Im sure is very limited, etc.,etc. Edited April 6 by Ricky Spanish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 AVG is hybrid Cart/PBI SIO, FujiNet with separate memory upgrade is basically sio and cart/pbi, S-Drive MAX handles most files correctly in XEX,ATR,ATX, and CAS. I have two S-Drive Max, and two AVG's, and one FujiNet, but have been through and given away/up on a handful of FujiNets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 (edited) 2 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said: The OP didn't say it must be wifi this or that Yup, I read. But, he did say he narrowed it down to the SDrive Max and Fujinet for an SD based solution and wanted to know the pros and cons of each. And, the wifi capability is a big pro. I didn't buy it for the wifi capability at all to be perfectly honest. I didn't even plan on connecting it to the outside world or on my own network. I bought it because of the following reasons: It was pretty cheap ($73.78 shipped to me, tax included) It took SD (microSD) cards The Sdrive Max started flaking out on me some time back so I stopped using it I have been using the old serial SIO2PC and was tired of having a long serial cable going across my office But when it arrived I said what the heck let me connect this thing to wifi and see what it is capable of. And that's where I had realized a huge benefit that I didn't buy it for. So, I felt it was my obligation to give the OP my explanation of why I think that ability is a pro and certainly not a con. I always loved the SIO2PC adapter because it (along with the APE software from Steven Tucker) had a really cool option to mirror a directory on your PC. Choose mirror mode and a directory, turn on the Atari computer and well, you saw a listing of what you saw in that folder. Add stuff to the folder on your PC and refresh on the Atari and you saw your new stuff. It was and still is super convenient. I didn't have that at all with the Sdrive Max. You had to fiddle with the microSD card and copy stuff. Which would have been fine and great if it were a one and done situation, but people are making new stuff constantly and I want to try that new stuff and now realize how much of a benefit that was on the SIO2PC...and how much it is now with Fujinet. Also, the Sdrive Max's screen was slow responding and fiddly (not to mention felt gimmicky) and I stopped using that feature. It was just something to get dusty and potentially damaged...never cared for it. This Fujinet on the other hand is what I had with the SIO2PC, but wireless. I didn't expect it to be as easy to set that up as it was. It is excellent, and it works as it should. You can still use it as an SD only solution, but man, once you delve into what else it can do it's pretty darn cool. As for the issues you have had, I have no idea why you are going through all of these Fujinet devices...maybe just bad build quality from those seller(s)? Edited April 6 by eightbit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 (edited) Which is why I suggest going to known quality sellers for AVG AVG SUbcart and fujinet, with provided links. I won't bother with the influencer style write up though. Just know the FujiNet firmware is all over the map and I have asked repeatedly for feedback on the best versions. I really would like a top 5 or 10. One thing fix another broken, then great feature yanked for this or that. So it'd be real cool if get it together - here's the closest 5-10 firmware choices could be had. I really don't want to start a flashing frenzy at home doing each and every one, but would rather hear back from those using and loving it as to what their fave is. Then I'd only have 5 or ten to try and pick from there. Quality sure is an issue, as the SIO connection point and method seem to vary in many way and is a critical failing point as many aren't doing as a good a job as mozzwald in that area. Lotharek seems to have gone with the tried and true sockets and looks durable, able to use full size SD card etc. Edited April 6 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 I am sure the AVG carts are good, just looking at the specs and what they do...so don't get me wrong. I guess the best thing to do is to ask the OP more questions on what he is looking for and especially his budget. He already said he was looking for SIO based and not cart based so I think that is kind of ruling out the AVG carts however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfcatari Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 8 hours ago, eightbit said: I forgot to add that I had purchased the Devkit version: https://www.ebay.com/itm/134990839520 Which I believe is being made in small batches by a user in these forums @Jfcatari? Nice device, really nice build quality with a real SIO cable. It was a bit cheaper than the standard version and from what I am to understand has half the flash (8MB vs 16MB) which I don't think matters for normal operation. It does not have the SIO pass through so it would have to be connected last in the SIO chain if you have other devices, but it works for me as all I have is my 600XL and this. More on the Devkit version here: https://github.com/djtersteegc/fujinet-devkit-shield Thanks for pointing out the devkits I am building. I have parts on order and will be getting another run of these together. If anyone wanst to avoid the ebay 'tax' please PM me directly. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 2 minutes ago, Jfcatari said: Thanks for pointing out the devkits I am building. I have parts on order and will be getting another run of these together. If anyone wanst to avoid the ebay 'tax' please PM me directly. Glad you chimed in! Really great work, I am truly loving mine. I purchased it under my old handle from the heyday "zektor" some weeks ago. I know you have gotten some flack for using/cutting original SIO cables, but this really added that additional level of quality and I couldn't resist the purchase Keep up the good work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 The AVG carts can have SIO cables, stop being coy, you know this. Intellectual dishonesty is so not cool 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 1 minute ago, _The Doctor__ said: The AVG carts can have SIO cables, stop being coy, you know this. Intellectual dishonesty is so not cool Sad to see you have gone down this sort of path. If you want to make a case for your 95 euro AVG cart and extremely expensive FlashAir SD cards (which isn't even the same as what this offers) go ahead. When it's popular enough to have it's own sub forum here on AA I'll think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 (edited) nope just noticing exactly what your doing, we give all choices, and option including links to the other choices including fujinet, you do not and take every opportunity to say things that are 'accidentally' untrue. I am glad there are others chiming in with other choices and they are not playing your influencer game. It's sad, but the sadness I feel is for you. I bought my flashairs for 15 dollars a piece but you don't have to buy name brands like I did, you can buy others that do the same. But please go on with it. Next you will no doubt tell me your memory upgrade was a dollar including shipping. You sure seem to have a vested interest in things. Why there is only one choice in your world. But S-Drive Max is SIO, AVG can be SIO, and don't forget Lothareks SIO choices as well, SDRIVEs et all there is a whole world of SIO choices, and I gave links to SEE them all and Compare.. I also gave @ nametags for FujiNets. I guess I should have included those for AVG etc as well. You see I have promoted all of them and you simply want to write off any other options or choices. Kinda weird. Edited April 6 by _The Doctor__ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 1 minute ago, _The Doctor__ said: nope just noticing exactly what your doing, we give all choices, and option including links to the other choices including fujinet, you do not and take every opportunity to say things that are 'accidentally' untrue. I am glad there are others chiming in with other choices and they are not playing your influencer game. It's sad, but the sadness I feel is for you. Haha...you obviously have zero clue how open I am to all solutions. I had already mentioned that I was impressed with the cart's feature set. I am just not impressed with the fact that it does not include an option that I think is a good one...wifi access. To each their own. But, it is starting to feel like (and sound like) you have some stake in this AVG cartridge project. Again it has a nice feature set from what I have read, but it is missing some features that I personally find convenient and at this point necessary. Let the users decide. I haven't heard too much "hoopla" in regard to the thing personally, and I am just being honest dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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