SDrive Max vs Fujinet

[_The Doctor__]

@tmp  makes great stuff and at a nice price for all that they do.

I also believe you will find SDRIVES at all the usual places, in fact they are shown in the very links I posted

 

[_The Doctor__]

The only one with a vested interest is you. I was waiting for you to pull that BS. You did not disappoint. You even did a redirect and tried to call it honest.

Fact is there are many choices and the person truly giving more choices and places to read to make a decision isn't you. Funny that, it turns out someone else is giving choices and some perspective. Asking for some choices to make the one device I have better didn't yield an answer or suggestion though. Also including ways to see and read about them all. If one clicks on lotharek link one gets SIO device and FujiNets.

If one click the ebay link the same.

I will conclude with Mr. Robots site to see different ways they work in practice.

https://atari8bit.net/tutorials/

click around and you will find all of the devices and the way they work.

[eightbit]

I don't doubt it and again I am impressed by the feature set of the AVG carts. I have just never heard of them to be quite honest until now. When it was brought up in this thread I immediately checked the specs to see if it could connect to wifi like the Fujinet. And I asked here. But it couldn't do that so it's just not for me.

 

I think you are getting me completely wrong if you think for a second that I have a stake in one over the other for some sort of "get them to buy this" sort of agenda. 

 

I don't make these and am not involved in any way other than being an end user with an Atari 8-Bit (and somewhat "new" to this line of computers as I did not grow up with them) that either likes what he sees in the feature set and ease of use or does not. 

I grew up with the C64 and I use the heck out of the Ultimate II+ in the present day. I know this machine like the back of my hand and I have tried every modern solution of this type for it and there is nothing that compares to the UII+ for this computer. I can positively conclude that at this present time the Ultimate II+ provides the best experience. See, I can't do that with the Atari 8-bit just yet. 

 

I discovered this machine only probably around the time I became a member of AA, and didn't actually buy one until around 10 years ago. They were never sold in my area at all...except for the XEGS. But at the time of that release we didn't have any peripherals for sale. Only carts.

 

I had purchased the XEGS back then, or I should say my parents did. At "Woolworth" no less. I was 12 at the time I didn't understand it's purpose, other than keyboard vs. Rob The Robot. I had no idea at all that this was coming from a lineage of computers. As a kid I thought that Atari just made this one computer/console thing out of nowhere and was baffled why the graphics and sound were so privative (for that time in 1987). Just image being a 12 year old kid, never seen or knew Atari had computers before, and your first experience with that is the XEGS and stuff like "Fight Night". And had no idea that it was "old" technology under the hood at this time. I had no idea why this "crappy computer" was being sold to be honest. As a kid in 1987 we had some really great stuff and great graphics...and the XEGS was not that. I don't even know what had happened to that XEGS, but its use was very short lived. I really wish I had it now!

 

But as years past I learned and understood where the XEGS came from. Appreciated the fact that this hardware was so far ahead of its time when released (the original hardware I am referring to). I have in the past decade or so gained so much appreciation in fact for this computer that I dare to I say it surpasses by beloved C64 in a bunch of ways. I now really love this machine, truly.

 

My goal is to use it and play with software in the most convenient and modern way possible. I personally have found that the Fujinet device provides that to me, a person mind you who is not in the slightest a Atari 8-bit guru. And, if it can provide that to me with zero hassle you best believe it is a good thing and something I have no problem recommending to others.

 

Again I am sure the AVG carts are great and I am not knocking them at all (and I would love to try one too!) but the lack of wifi is a bummer. This cart looks like it could almost be the "Ultimate II+" of the Atari 8-bit world, but just add the Fujinet wifi capability. 

Edited April 6 by eightbit

[_The Doctor__]

I also made my own 2 sdrive maxes, cases are of community design and supply, also two of the standard old variety sdrives, each has their shining points... I may put the bigger character display on the standard sdrives aka bigus on lothareks site.

Sdrive maxes are the choice when people come over and we do the Atari thing, it's something everyone intuitively can figure out and handle. Touch screens sort of do that. Just not my daily drivers so to speak. aNode is the desktop I speak of at fujinet.pl

I use lantronix for BBS. I sometime use FujiNet for calls. I am always using the AVG's as all other items rely on it for memory or hard drive use etc. etc.

I also use real drives, and a MIO is on the first everyday use Atari with a BlackBox on the second. The Black Box is serving the BBS needs atm.

Almost always connected to a phone line, then ethernet, then wifi the novelty isn't super wow for me with new devices that do whats always existed other than having it's own dedicated server method now and restoring sites that are now https:/ is the shiny thing. The thing is the lantronixs did get upgraded to secure encryption as well. They don't work automagically like FN in some instances. I will say the dragon cart is the lowest latency fastest and least packet dropping way to play the online games.

http://8bit-slicks.com/

every attempt to make another device work as well for the game falls a bit short for our 8 bit.

it's a mixed bag and it will take some time for a proper fit and choice.

Friends over who are not complete Atariverse folks like SDrive Max and have no clue what that AVG is doing

Almost all others who have Atari and stop by are happy to interact with AVG stuff

My BBS crews are about the lantronix, MIO, BB etc.

A mix of the full on Atari all of the above crew do get the hang of FujiNet, and I enjoyed showing off the ISS tracker, APOD, Weather etc.

8 bit slicks impresses them with the Dragon.

 

I could keep going and make vomit in the mouth a little bit, but honestly, a little youtube and the links provided will help.

Maybe the answer is to start with 2

 

Edited April 6 by _The Doctor__

[eightbit]

I will certainly follow the AVG cart project as it seems like it has a lot going for it. 

 

I don't think honesty you can make any truly "bad" choices with any of these devices. Be it the AVG cart, SDrive Max or Fujinet. Just have to compare and weigh out the options depending on what works for you.

 

We should be so lucky that we even have options at all

 

 

 

[Havok69]

I have an AVG cart and FujiNet. I only use my AVG cart - they are close as far as capabilities, it's just the AVG cart does more. I don't think anyone mentioned it, but you can also swap operating systems with AVG; takes three key presses and done. All without opening up the case. With my AVG, I am running 1MB ram, fast SIO and can run cartridge, floppy and cassette images. I have a 32GB SD card that I literally copied everything to, and done. The menu is lightning fast and searchable. You can also map drives that stick so on the next powerup they're already there if you want.

 

SAM is fun on the FujiNet though...

[+DjayBee]

53 minutes ago, Havok69 said:

I have an AVG cart and FujiNet. I only use my AVG cart - they are close as far as capabilities, it's just the AVG cart does more. I don't think anyone mentioned it, but you can also swap operating systems with AVG; takes three key presses and done. All without opening up the case. With my AVG, I am running 1MB ram, fast SIO and can run cartridge, floppy and cassette images. I have a 32GB SD card that I literally copied everything to, and done. The menu is lightning fast and searchable. You can also map drives that stick so on the next powerup they're already there if you want.

 

SAM is fun on the FujiNet though...

This ^;)

 

Pros AVeraGe / SUBaverage both with SIO cable added (nice puns on the really outdated Ultimate btw.)

• Loads ATR, ATX, XEX/COM, CAR with high compatibility
• Standard SD card for less fiddling
• SDX support incl. loading cart images on top
• Extend your Atari without opening it (1 MB RAM, Stereo POKEY)

Cons AVG/SUB

• Octopus like cabling

Pros SDrive Max

• Loads ATR, ATX, XEX/COM with high compatibility
• LCD screen to select and swap images on the fly and very quickly (find one of your Nintendo DS or Palm "pens" for easier operation)
  This is particularly useful when the device is powered via USB because it then holds the previousl selected image. Otherwise you have to reselect with every power on of the Atari.

Cons SDrive Max

• Screen is very fumbly without a pen
• Fiddly uSD slot
• You have to reselect the last image every time you power up the Atari unless USB-powered
• No CAR support

Pros FujiNet

• Loads ATR, ATX, XEX/COM (ATR/ATX emulation good but not as good as the other two)
• All its network stuff, and there is lots
  Regarding disk images and executables you really should setup a local TNFS server on any of your PCs/Macs/Raspis. Then you do not need to fumble around with its uSD when copying new stuff to your Atari. You can either run it directly from the server or copy the files using your Atari to the uSD inside the FujiNet.

Cons FujiNet

• No CAR support
• Fiddly uSD slot except Lotharek's FujiNet Prof
• When not USB-powered: After powering up your Atari you always have to boot CONFIG first before you can boot the real image. But contrary to the SDrive it remembers your last selections.
• You have some update-pressure to keep up with its features.

I own all three of them and use them all - depending on where my focus lies at the very moment.

[TGB1718]

1 hour ago, DjayBee said:

You have to reselect the last image every time you power up the Atari unless USB-powered

Not true, you can save the config

 

[+DjayBee]

3 minutes ago, TGB1718 said:

Not true, you can save the config

 

OK, never used it. (Talking of active images not general config.)

But you have to do it explicitly vs. FujiNet just remembers.

Right?

[TGB1718]

2 minutes ago, DjayBee said:

But you have to do it explicitly vs. FujiNet just remembers.

Right?

Yes, but only 2 taps on the screen

[Sid Pokey]

Thank you for all the responses. Quick follow up…

 

I did know of the AVGCart, which does look very impressive, but I had mostly discounted it due to its comparative price tag; £94 vs circa £40-50 for the others. Plus another 16 quid extra for the necessary SIO cable! 🤯

 

My priorities would be full ATR compatibility, SD card storage and a reasonably intuitive interface. Stuff like wifi and touchscreens are gimmicky fluff I know I wouldn't use after the first few days. Intention would be to load everything I've got onto SD card and that's that. A quality of life upgrade.

 

I see it said the Fujinet doesn't have as good ATR compatibility compared to the SDM? Is there anything specific there or just random failures?

 

I did also see something about an SDrive Nano which looked very interesting. The simplistic minimalism of it. Has anyone got one of those? Any gotchas?

[+CharlieChaplin]

So,

if I do not know how to setup my own TNFS server then a big pro for Fujinet seems to be gone...?!? In the past I had a Dragon cart, so I know very well how limited the A8's online features (and slow speed) are, nothing I would like to experience again (Dragon cart only did http, no ftp, no https, etc. and most of the time only mobile phone webpages, which are mostly gone nowadays; loading of 1/4 or 1/8 of e.g. cnn-mobile page took several minutes).

 

Want to know the weather ? I use an app on my smartphone which tells me in a second, so nothing I would really use on the A8. Want to browse the internet ? I have such a thing here, named PC (and a smartphone), so nothing I would ever want to do again with the A8. Online gaming? I remember this with Dragon cart. where you rarely found any A8 users online to play with or against.

 

Always want to download and playtest the newest stuff via Wifi on(to) the A8 ?  Yeah, this could be a point. But then again, I am collecting the newest stuff for approx. 3 months and then download it to the A8 (either as a 5,25" diskette or as an ATR image). If I want to playtest stuff immediately I am using an emulator, like Atari 800 or Altirra. This seems very usefull to me for A8 programs that get updates very often, since I do not want to download 10, 20, 50 or more (update) versions of one and the same program (e.g. Scorch with approx. 150 updates and bugfixes).

 

Iow it is a matter of taste and personal use-case. Fujinet, AVG/Sub cart, SIDE-3 and SDrive-Max all can load several image formats, if you want .CAR then maybe Fujinet or SDrive-Max isn't for you, if you want Wifi then maybe AVG/Sub cart or SIDE-3 isn't for you, etc. But I think it should also be considered, if your computer is already upgraded in several ways (and you do not need more upgrades) or if your computer is stock and you would like to have some upgrades without too much hassle (no soldering required)... and if you have the money or are curious, why not purchase more than one of these "add-ons" ?

 

If you want to load all (or 99% of) ATR images, then you will sooner or later require a RAM upgrade and then the above mentioned consideration comes into play. Some of the mentioned add-ons also include a RAM upgrade, some do not and this adds to the sum (e.g. Fujinet or SDrive-Max or SIDE-3 + additional RAM upgrade isn't cheaper than AVG/Sub cart which already contain a RAM upgrade).

 

[Jfcatari]

There is also the simple Drive 2021 and simple drive II from Mytek.

 

https://ataribits.weebly.com/sdrive.html

 

I am considering building a run of these as well.  I have the micro SD version 2021 done and getting ready for the Simple drive II

Edited April 6 by Jfcatari

[Jfcatari]

8 hours ago, eightbit said:

 

Glad you chimed in! Really great work, I am truly loving mine. I purchased it under my old handle from the heyday "zektor" some weeks ago.

 

I know you have gotten some flack for using/cutting original SIO cables, but this really added that additional level of quality and I couldn't resist the purchase

 

Keep up the good work!

Thanks. @eightbit

 

I am out of stock on both the Devkit Fujinets and the Sdrive Max's.

Looking to add Mytek's sdrive's to the mix as well.

 

 

[+CharlieChaplin]

4 hours ago, DjayBee said:

Pros ...

Cons ...

 

Now you have to buy the SIDE-3, so you can add it to your pro/con table... 

Seriously, a very good comparison and I would not mind, if someone also adds the pros and cons for SIDE-3.

(Yes, I already know philsans table/overview of new A8 devices.)

 

[ascrnet]

Personally for me none of them emulates 100% of the real units. I have all the devices, but none of my favorite as I always find something that is not supported. 😅

[E474]

If you have something like a Raspberry Pi, you can make an SIO cable with a 5V <-> 3.3V Logic level shifter board, and 3D print the SIO molex connector (you just need to figure out how to do the crimp connectors, though you can salvage them from old ATX style PC PSUs). Then just use FujiNet-PC or atariserver on the Pi to serve ATR/ATX images. 

Edited April 6 by E474
typo

[_The Doctor__]

46 minutes ago, E474 said:

If you have something like a Raspberry Pi, you can make an SIO cable with a 5V <-> 3.3V Logic level shifter board, and 3D print the SIO molex connector (you just need to figure out how to do the crimp connectors, though you can salvage them from old ATX style PC PSUs). Then just use FujiNet-PC or atariserver on the Pi to serve ATR/ATX images. 

heh, I forgot that one. Thanks for including it. Some people set their servers of all kinds on these

[E474]

I think the cable cost about a Pound Sterling to make, which was the cost of the logic level shifter from eBay.co.uk (probably the best value Pound I ever spent on my retro journey!). I built it by following this blog post: https://blog.lmorchard.com/2018/03/01/sio2pi/ 

[Schadret]

On 4/6/2024 at 8:32 AM, CharlieChaplin said:

So,

if I do not know how to setup my own TNFS server then a big pro for Fujinet seems to be gone...?!? 

 

Not at all, you just point to one of the many public TNFS servers that people in the community have set up that host ATR images. I don't have an SD card in my FujiNet, nor do i run my own TNFS server (except for development, but I dont have a library of Atari games in there). I just mount games from various servers on the internet, and play em that way.

[ACML]

On 4/6/2024 at 7:16 AM, Sid Pokey said:

I did also see something about an SDrive Nano which looked very interesting. The simplistic minimalism of it. Has anyone got one of those? Any gotchas?

If you are referring to Lotharek's new mini SDRIVE, it is a fantastic little device.  I especially love the joystick navigation and the ease in jumping drives with the two little buttons.  Awesome solution for XEX and ATR files.  As for the Fujinet, the new Lotharek Fujinet 1.7 Pro is super nice and I highly recommend it.  The navigation on the SD card library is top notch to include joystick navigation.  The SAM voice telling which drive is active is nice as well.  Today, if I had to pick one as a new enthusiast, I'd pick the SDRIVE micro/nano from Lotharek for price (under $30) and if you are will to spend more, the Fujinet 1.7 Pro also from Lotharek.  Either gets you covered for disk and file images, but to round out the complete capability, I'd also get one of the above and an UNO Cart which runs ~$65.  The UNO Cart gives you the ROM world up to 128K.

Edited April 7 by ACML

[Havok69]

Can you use the Uno Cart with an 800 (meaning, close the lid?)

[SS]

14 hours ago, Havok69 said:

Can you use the Uno Cart with an 800 (meaning, close the lid?)

No.  The UNO is XL/XE only.  You can force an A8PicoCart to work with a 400 but not an 800.  The only cart based solution that I am aware of that works reliably with a 400/800 is the Ultimate Cart but the lid will not close completely while using it.  

[+CharlieChaplin]

18 minutes ago, SS said:

No.  The UNO is XL/XE only.  You can force an A8PicoCart to work with a 400 but not an 800.  The only cart based solution that I am aware of that works reliably with a 400/800 is the Ultimate Cart but the lid will not close completely while using it.  

Afaik, Ultimate Carts from Retrotrains and santosp came without cases - so it depends which case you are using for them. I used one of the grey Loderunner XE/XEGS ribbon cases (made in Taiwan, ribbons on the side, Atari Fuji logo on back, noses that break easily inside) and I guess that these cases also fit in 400 and 800 Ataris. But if you ordered Ultimate Cart from someone else and it is a 3D-printed case, it will most-likely not fit...

[SS]

On 4/5/2024 at 3:30 PM, Sid Pokey said:

What are the pros and cons of each?

To answer @Sid Pokey's original question, I own a FujiNet and an SDrive-MAX.  Both are great devices and both will totally meet your needs.  The one of the two that I use the most is the SDrive-MAX though.  Not because it is necessarily the better device but mostly because it is the one the feels the most like a classic disk drive experience to me.  The touch screen allows you to manually add ATR/XEX files to one of four virtual drive, which to my mind nicely replicates the old-school action of swapping physical floppys in my 1050.  It also very easily allows you to quickly access multi-disk games.  Mostly though, I think that I prefer the SDrive-MAX for the simple reason that my case is shaped like an Atari 810 disk drive.  A shallow reason, maybe, but it really hits all of the right nostalgia buttons for me.  😎