desiv Posted October 30, 2003 Author Share Posted October 30, 2003 Also, I finally HACKED out my Adam printer and put the cable on an old PC power supply, so I can get rid of that printer!!!!(Anyone remember the Adam? The power supply was IN THE PRINTER!! Weird... Almost a supremely great design, the Adam..) Cool hack! I was really excited to get an Adam, but then I saw how much space it took up with the printer and all. Now it lives in a box. Vic-20 rocks. I have a few carts for trade. PM me if you're interested. It was actually an easier hack that I was worried about. The Adam uses 2 +12's, a +5, a -5 and a ground. 5 connections. easy! The old AT PC power supply I had easily had those. The only hard part was neatly cutting off some of the useless wires and sealing them, and then getting the on/off switch in the AT power supply. It had an on/off switch with about 12" of wire for running to the PC. I was going to cut it and reconnect it, but the power supply had enough room and I was able to route it around once, and not have it touch any heatsinks!!! So I mounted the switch in the same hole the switch wire use to come out of. The Adam cable, and 3 or 4 standard 4 pin PC power cables which I left for whatever, come out pretty neatly. If I find I never need any other power, I might cut off the extra and clean it up even more. (Too bad the Adam floppy is 9 volts, not 5 or 12 or I'd just poiwer it off of that too..) I'm OK with wires, but not into electronics enough to bother with trying to drop the 12 down to 9.. yet.) :-) Hopefully I'll get my Vic carts and tapes in a week or so, so I'll know all of what I have to work with.. I actually have my Adam sitting in the middle part of an old Microwave oven cart, and my Apple //e is sitting on the top, with a monitor and my 2 port Video/Audio switchbox. So, if I put in a shelf above the Adam, I could probably fit the Vic 20. I just have to get a 4 port switchbox. I could even move the Adam to the bottom (keyboard extension??) and maybe have room for a 64 (or 128). 4 machines off of 1 monitor in 1 small area. Great! Unless I also eventually get an Amiga and maybe some Atari 8bits. :-) desiv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ze_ro Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Out of curiosity, has anyone ever hacked a ColecoVision power supply to work on an Adam? I imagine that they use the same voltages, even though the connector is different. Does the Adam need a power switch on the power supply (or printer), or does it have it's own? --Zero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted October 30, 2003 Author Share Posted October 30, 2003 The Adam has no power switch of it's own. The ON switch on the printer was what turned on the Adam. The Colecovision AC adapter provides: Pin1 +5 Pin2 - 5 Pin3 +12 Pin4 GND So, theoretically, you split pin3 and generate the 2 +12's needed and it should work, unless the amperage on the colecovision supply is too small?? So, maybe.. :-) And you have the old fashioned on/off switch... Plug it in!!! :-) I really like the Adam. Wanted one when I was younger, but we got the Vic-20, cost less. I liked that too.. :-) What I liked about the Adam? Great games. You could get BASIC (Came with???). More RAM than the Vic-20. Daisy wheel printer! (It was almost the only way to get letter quality back then remember!!) High Speed tape drive AND a Disk drive available. Slots for expansion. And.. It could run CPM!!!!! (That was KUAL back in the day!!) Basically, almost everything an Apple could do, for less money!! (Rumor has it, the name Adam was picked to take a "bite" out of Apple.) If they could have dropped the price (Retail at release was $600, the Vic-20 was $299) and made the printer an option... Imagine.... BASIC in ROM instead of the Word Processor, no printer, 1 tape drive and the keyboard. 1 game and 1 joystick for $450?? That's an 80K RAM (64k useable) computer WITH storage. The Apple // was much more expensive with no drives at the time. And it's not just a regular tape drive. It uses regular audio tapes, but it's a high speed tape device. Would have been sweet!!! But, CBM killed them on the low end and Apple ruled in the "Real Computer" market at the time. Didn't follow the Atari 8bits at the time... desiv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted October 30, 2003 Author Share Posted October 30, 2003 Oh, and I just checked... (Been awhile since I used it. Haven't thrown it out yet.) The power switch on the Adam printer???? You guessed it.. On the BACK of the printer!!! So close to being a great design... Must have been Marketing guys who messed it up... :-) desiv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 In all fairness, the Adam computer had some serious limitations. Apple's architecture seemed open-ended by comparison... http://junior.apk.net/~drushel/pub/coleco/...a/wk970831.html http://drushel.cwru.edu/atm/atm.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted October 30, 2003 Author Share Posted October 30, 2003 True, but if you check the first article, you'll see most of the limitations (all as far as I could see) are software... If the Adam would have survived, they probably would have been addressed. I'm not saying it's hardware was as open ended as the Apple II. I just don't know enough about the Adam expansion. But it was significantly less expensive too.. Lack of 80 columns was a problem, but so it was for the Apple, until they came out with 80 column cards. I just think the Adam was much better than people give it credit for. desiv p.s. Thanx for the link on the ATM!! Sweet!!! If I knew anything about hardware, I'd design a USB to AdamNET adapter, but how to get USB to do serial as slow as 62.5 kilobaud? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ze_ro Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 So, theoretically, you split pin3 and generate the 2 +12's needed and it should work, unless the amperage on the colecovision supply is too small?? I'm sure it would work... the extra +12V line is probably meant for the expansion devices of the Adam. You could get BASIC (Came with???). Pretty much all 8-bit computers had BASIC in some form though... most of them had it built into the roms on the computer like the VIC-20 did. And.. It could run CPM!!!!! (That was KUAL back in the day!!) Did anyone ever use CP/M on these kinds of machines though? I mean, I know Kaypro's and Osbourne's were the defacto CP/M machines, and were used as such... but I always saw CP/M support on machines like the Adam and C-128 to be a mostly unused feature. Personally, I don't think I've ever used CP/M mode on my C-128 other than to see what it was like. If they could have dropped the price (Retail at release was $600, the Vic-20 was $299) and made the printer an option... Maybe my dad got ripped off... but he claimed that when he bought a VIC-20 for my brother, he paid around $800 (CDN) for it. Maybe that included the monitor and tape drive and stuff though? As for the printer, that was kind of their "thing"... you buy the computer, and you immediately have a functional word processor without having to buy any extras. On other systems, you'd have to spend extra for the printer, and for the word processor software... when it comes to the Adam, the only extra you needed was the rust-proofing... without that, those Coleco's will rust right up on ya! And it's not just a regular tape drive. It uses regular audio tapes, but it's a high speed tape device. Are you sure it used normal tapes? I remember my grandpa saying he had to buy special formatted tapes for it that had extra notches in them or something.... I could be mistaken though. --Zero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted October 30, 2003 Author Share Posted October 30, 2003 Are you sure it used normal tapes? I remember my grandpa saying he had to buy special formatted tapes for it that had extra notches in them or something.... I could be mistaken though. ------------------- Yep, I've got a bunch of Sony's for my Adam.. But you're right about the notching.. The tapes did have to be modified slightly, but only notched.. As for the price, That was $300 retail for the Vic-20 USD. I put $800 CDN into the exchange calculator and got $611 USD. So either he bought 2 Vic-20's :-), or he got a Vic-20 with a Disk Drive or a Monitor or some other combination.. (Or he really got ripped off. :-) And as for whether or not anyone used CP/M with em?? Well, the Adam I was given came with CP/M!! So the guy who bought it at least intended to use it.. :-) I used to use CP/M on the Apple // back in the day at school. One of the reasons I wanted the Adam. However, I think CP/M was basically "over" by the time the C128 came out, and definately not of as much interest for gamers. Big problem with CP/M on other machines? Disk format. The Adam's CP/M disks can't be read by the Apple's with a CP/M card. I'm guessing same with the C128. If they could have pulled that off, CP/M might have been more universal.. or not. :-) desiv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ze_ro Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 The Adam's CP/M disks can't be read by the Apple's with a CP/M card. I'm guessing same with the C128. If they could have pulled that off, CP/M might have been more universal.. Actually, if you had the 1571 disk drive that Commodore marketed with the C-128, you could read and write Kaypro and Osbourne disks, so that would definitely help with CP/M compatability. In fact, I think the 1571 was required for CP/M mode, since the other C64 disk drives could only read one side of the disk (the 1571 actually had a lot of extra abilities beyond CP/M compatibility that made it worth getting). I'm not sure if the 128 would automatically write Kaypro-compatible disks, or whether it would make 128-specific disks by default though. You're right though... CP/M was past it's heyday when the C128 came out. I'm not even sure why Commodore decided to make the 128 CP/M compatible, since it meant adding in another processor. --Zero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Han Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 OK, weird thought...Here's my thought, if I used a Tape deck adapter (like the ones you use with CD or MP3 players in the car), could I just PLAY the file from my Windows machine after I press PLAY on the tape deck??? (Assuming I can close the Datasette tape door with the audio cable sticking out. It's a thin cable.. ) desiv A bit curious if you managed to get the tape deck adapter to work? I just bought a C64 myself and I am trying to transfer some WAW files to tape. But my stereo tape deck runs at the wrong speed. So I was thinking about getting an adapter instead... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Wrong speed? The Commodore Datasette cassettes are recorded at the same speed as regular tape decks' tapes (this I know to be true, since I used a tape recorder adapter instead of a real Datasette back in the day...which could read commercial tapes just fine). But even that has little to do with what he wanted to attempt (which is to use an adapter instead of a real cassette in the Datasette). When you converted your "waw" files, how are you recording them? You should just be using the sound card output to the tape deck's input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Han Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Thx for you reply Nukey. But you missunderstood me or rather I gave a fuzzy explanation. My tape deck runs at the wrong speed, something is wrong with it. I have noticed before when listening to music... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Huh...well, you could splurge and buy an el-cheapo tabletop mono cassette recorder at the Goodwill for a buck or so My piece o'crap worked (and it went though all kinds of abuse). When you are recording, are any high-speed dubbing functions toggled off? Dunno if CR2 or Metal options would affect it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Han Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Yeah would work too, time for some shopping either way But it would be cool if the adapter worked. I just found a site with a lot of C64 TAP files. Cant wait to load up Rambo and listen to the loading tune again And btw the settings on the tape deck are correct. I think it might affect the outcome. I am using a type 1 cassette... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Strange...it should have worked (unless the tape deck has a LOT of warble). Here's the one I use to record Atari and Commodore stuff... Yes...it's the same one I used to use with the Vic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Han Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Wow... that actually looks older than the Vic . Cool that it still works. I just sat down and had a listen to the tape I made for my C64. There is some warble actually, so I think it's time to retire my old tape deck So I am of to find a used tape recorder and some parts to make an A/V cable for the C64 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Han Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Right... home from my mission. Didn’t find any used tape recorders, the two best second hand shops were closed today of course. So I bought a tape adapter instead and some parts to make an AV cable. I have been trying for the last hour or so to get this €£$%# adapter to work. But it just plain refuses... I don't get it. The C64 tape deck is working that much I know. I have tried to save and load with it, and it worked. And another annoying thing... The 8 pin DIN connector I bought for my AV cable, doesn't fit! ARGH! Pin 6 and 7 are not correctly aligned... So now I am of to find a cute little furry animal to kick... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 How strong is the signal coming from the soundcard? Perhaps it needs to be boosted or something (too faint for the Datasette)? You are pressing play on the Datasette after the .wav begins playing, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Han Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 I have tried different levels, and I have also tried boosting it. And yupp I am pressing play. Sometimes it finds something, but usually the name is just junk characters. I have tried different azimuth angles too. Maybe the signal gets distorted via the adapter. A friend of mine uses an adapter in his car, and he said that the sound comes out more muffled when using it... maybe that’s the problem.. hmm… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Hm...The only thing that I can think of is to adjust the audio properties on the PC's audio control panel (like cutting the bass and removing any "3d" sound properties). I really don't remember the Vic being so picky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted October 31, 2003 Author Share Posted October 31, 2003 Still waiting for my Datasette to show up in the mail. I'm going to go from audio out on the PC to the Adapter in the Datasette. If I had the right type of edge connector, I'd try going straight to the Vic, but I don't have anything that'll fit it.... Hopefully, it'll show up soon.... desiv (Actually, wouldn't it be funny to make an adapter that hooks from the PC to the Vic, but not just audio. Take the control lines and hook em up too, maybe to the parallel port. Then use a WinAmp plugin or something to be able to get the pause/play feature to work too. Waste of time considering better connections out there, but would be kind of funny..) :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Han Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 I am using SoundForge to playback the WAV file, so there should be no 3D effects or any other fancy stuff active. But I might give adjusting the bass/treble a go. @desiv: I saw someone on the net had done a PC to VIC cable. And he was able to use his PC as tape deck ... pretty cool But I didnt bookmark the page... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Probably one of the Star Commander pages...look here: http://sta.c64.org/ BTW I found a cable similar to the one I had used here: http://www.connectworld.net/iec/l3112.html That could plug directly into a CD player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ze_ro Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 (Actually, wouldn't it be funny to make an adapter that hooks from the PC to the Vic, but not just audio. Take the control lines and hook em up too, maybe to the parallel port. Then use a WinAmp plugin or something to be able to get the pause/play feature to work too. Waste of time considering better connections out there, but would be kind of funny..) :-) There are programs out there that are designed to offer up hard drive access through a PC's parallel port. The idea then is that you plug a C64 into the PC via an X1541 cable, and you can then access the PC's hard drive as if it were a regular disk. I set up an old 486 with an 80 meg hard drive, and it worked quite nicely. You could even do other things like directories, and hosting .d64 images for the C64... but playing multi-disk games wouldn't work of course. I'm sure the same setup would work for a VIC-20, and it'd be a lot faster and easier than trying to go through the tape drive port. You can get directory listings and such. If you're interested, search the web for either "server64" or "64hdd"... I tried both, and one of them didn't work well, but I can't remember which. --Zero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharky Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 I used a daracassette just like that on an Sega-Computer cause I couldnt never obtain any hardware for this strange machine. Just if you get load errors just have to get the volume at the right level, bit of playing around but when you it right I put some tape over it will stay at that level. But I didnt know you could make them work on a Vic-20 though as the Vic20 Machine itself supplies power and some sort of control to the datacassette. Something I wouldnt try at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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