Will champ games ever work?

[genfuyung]

For the + or the retron 77? The few demos that will actually run are awesome but the item page for each game says they wont work. Is this something that can be fixed by a firmware update on the + at least?

[MrChickenz]

I sure hope so! I believe some do depending on the cart that was used.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

4 hours ago, genfuyung said:

For the + or the retron 77? The few demos that will actually run are awesome but the item page for each game says they wont work. Is this something that can be fixed by a firmware update on the + at least?

I have noticed you have started multiple threads, asking questions which are being discussed up and down elsewhere already.

 

Please try to use the search feature (I know it is not optimal) of AtariAge. And if you don't find the answers in the dedicated threads, please ask your questions there.

[mastic_man]

Im sure melody based games will be made to work at some point but for now we do have a workaround for 32k champ games for those who can build their own carts. 

You need a standard atari 8-32k ( PCBway) board flashed with a winbond 32k W27C257 epprom and a ATF20V8B chip flashed with F4 Bankswitching code.

You can flash the epprom with a champ demo game but controlls and other functionalty will not work for some games.

If you wish to play the full game you will need to buy the patched rom from Champ games that will work on V1.0 and upwards of the firmware

[Trebor]

9 hours ago, genfuyung said:

For the + or the retron 77? The few demos that will actually run are awesome but the item page for each game says they wont work. Is this something that can be fixed by a firmware update on the + at least?

4 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

I have noticed you have started multiple threads, asking questions which are being discussed up and down elsewhere already.

 

Please try to use the search feature (I know it is not optimal) of AtariAge. And if you don't find the answers in the dedicated threads, please ask your questions there.

 

Covered, in depth here:

 

[MrChickenz]

👀

 

 

 

[tradyblix]

Still got my copy of Turbo Arcade waiting lol. Hint hint  

[genfuyung]

10 hours ago, Trebor said:

 

Covered, in depth here:

 

Too in depth. Not interested in a bunch of acronyms and technical info.Has it been stated that the team at least acknowledges the issue and would like to make them playable? Yes. Thanks. That's it.

[tradyblix]

The beatings will continue until morale improves !!! Lol

 

I mean, these are recent games that are using arm chips and exotic bankswitching schemes, and just came out like a year ago or this year, Or for most of them in the last five years, and so it can't really be expected that these are the priority for any emulation devices. 

 

For champ games themselves, it seems like they kind of just expect you to play it on a real twenty six hundred. Obviously, when they were building these, making them very compatible was not high on the list of priorities for them. You're not playing on a real twenty six hundred? Tough luck! That's certainly an attitude i've seen expressed here quite a bit. 

 

If we get them to work, that would be bonus, but honestly, while they are really cool, I barely even consider them twenty six hundred games....

 

Also, like you know, for quite a few of them, there's a equivalent seventy eight hundred game that we can play, And I think the only one that I really really want to play really badly is turbo arcade because it's just so super cool.

 

I just gotta play it with less than stellar graphics quality on my original light sixer via modded composite out 😬

 

Galagon ? I got 7800 Galaga. 

Scramble ? 7800 Scramble. 

 

But yeah, you know. maybe one day. If not, it won't be the end of the world. 

Edited August 7 by tradyblix

[John Stamos Mullet]

2 hours ago, genfuyung said:

Too in depth. Not interested in a bunch of acronyms and technical info.Has it been stated that the team at least acknowledges the issue and would like to make them playable? Yes. Thanks. That's it.

[genfuyung]

53 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

Literally asking for the person replying to do LESS. Lol this community still sucks.

[+Stephen]

Just now, genfuyung said:

Literally asking for the person replying to do LESS. Lol this community still sucks.

Reading is hard and takes effort doesn't it?

[roots.genoa]

I've seen that elsewhere recently. A clueless guy asks a question, and a knowledgeable person gives him an answer he doesn't like, because he wishes reality was different. So he keeps asking elsewhere for "different opinions", even if the first answer was a solid fact.

 

So since you don't like long text and acronyms, the short answer seems to be yes, in theory, some games (but not all if I understood correctly) could work with a firmware update. Which doesn't mean it will happen, since very few games are concerned.

[+Sauron]

6 hours ago, genfuyung said:

Literally asking for the person replying to do LESS. Lol this community still sucks.

- Asks a question that's been answered elsewhere 

- Insults those who answer him because he doesn't like the answer

- Gets mad at entire community because they don't like being insulted

 

Yup, you'll go far, kid....

 

[CPUWIZ]

6 hours ago, genfuyung said:

Literally asking for the person replying to do LESS. Lol this community still sucks.

 

Previous troll, are we?  Noted.

[+Gemintronic]

I guess if the new Atari wanted to how far could they get without close ties with those who made the support chips?

 

Is there enough publicly accessible documentation to write a new emulator with DPC+, CDF, CDJF, CDJF+, etc..

 

P.S. I'm sure the answer is yes.  But, I'm far from an expert. Hoping there's a more detailed answer out there.

[+splendidnut]

To the best of my knowledge, the 2600+ already supports all the current enhancement chips and bankswitching schemes for the 2600 internally (in the software) because they're using a recent version of Stella.  The dumper is where the issue is... the dumper needs to be able to detect and dump the cartridge to provide to that internal software to run the game.

 

Will Champ Games ever work?  Sure, once someone puts in the effort to add support to the dumper.  That is solely on Atari's shoulders to do, if they so desire.

[+Intellivision Master]

I have 2 carts from Champ Games.  One is Avalanche.  The other is Galagon.  Avalanche works fine on the 2600+ with default firmware.  As for Galagon, I play that on my 7800.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Avalanche is a 4k game. All of these should work. Galagon is ARM driven. Currently these cannot be dumped. 

[+johnnywc]

14 hours ago, tradyblix said:

 

For champ games themselves, it seems like they kind of just expect you to play it on a real twenty six hundred. Obviously, when they were building these, making them very compatible was not high on the list of priorities for them.

Hello there!

 

Champ Games actually puts in many hours with developers of emulators, multi-carts, customers and, yes, even Atari, to assist in getting our games that were written for the Atari 2600 to work on as many systems as we can.  Every title we've developed was completed BEFORE the Atari 2600+ was released.  Helping Atari modify their 2600+ system so that it can support our existing and future games IS one of our priorities and we are doing all we can to make that possible.

14 hours ago, tradyblix said:

You're not playing on a real twenty six hundred? Tough luck! That's certainly an attitude i've seen expressed here quite a bit. 

Since this statement immediately follows your comment speculating what Champ Games priorities are, I will assume this is somewhat aimed at Champ Games also.  I personally have communicated with dozens of people that have reached out to me asking about 2600+ compatibility and I can assure you that not once was my reply "tough luck", it has been quite the opposite actually.   If this comment was not directed at Champ Games, please disregard.

 

14 hours ago, tradyblix said:

If we get them to work, that would be bonus, but honestly, while they are really cool, I barely even consider them twenty six hundred games....

All of our games run on an unmodified Atari 2600 or 100% compatible, therefore they are 2600 games by definition.  Not sure what your point is here.

14 hours ago, tradyblix said:

Also, like you know, for quite a few of them, there's a equivalent seventy eight hundred game that we can play, And I think the only one that I really really want to play really badly is turbo arcade because it's just so super cool.

 

 I just gotta play it with less than stellar graphics quality on my original light sixer via modded composite out 😬

 

Thanks for your kind words about Turbo Arcade!  This one took a long time to complete and is using the most resources of any game we have ever produced:  128K of ROM, 16K of RAM and a 70mhz ARM chip.

 

This game (the ROM) actually doesn't even run on a Harmony Encore since the Harmony carts can only support up to 32K Melody games, so yes for now the only way to play Turbo Arcade is either on a real cartridge purchased from Champ Games or on Stella 6.7 and the latest version of Gopher 2600 emulators (EDIT: and StellaDS too!  ).

14 hours ago, tradyblix said:

Galagon ? I got 7800 Galaga. 

Scramble ? 7800 Scramble. 

Both of those 7800 games are excellent!  Champ Games develops for the Atari 2600 so for those that don't have a 7800 there is an option.  Bob D (PacManPlus) was nice enough to let us use the sounds from his 7800 Scramble in our 2600 version.  

14 hours ago, tradyblix said:

But yeah, you know. maybe one day. If not, it won't be the end of the world. 

With what I understand, Atari has figured out how to get DPC+ games to work on the 2600+ with a firmware update, so that includes Champ Games' Scramble.  We are actively working with Atari to hopefully get the other games working (through a firmware update) and we are also working with Atari to update the driver we use in our games so that any future Champ Games will be able to work with the 2600+, even if we are using the latest technology.  🤞

43 minutes ago, Gemintronic said:

Is there enough publicly accessible documentation to write a new emulator with DPC+, CDF, CDJF, CDJF+, etc..

 

Hi there!   The issue is not with the emulator (Stella) - this supports all of the bank-switching methods you mentioned.  The issue is with the cart dumper (hardware) on the 2600+ and the firmware:  it cannot read the ROM that is stored on these cartridges due to a hardware limitation of the cart dumper.  As someone mentioned above, there are 'hacks' where you can burn the 32K ROM of a Melody game to an EEPROM using F4 bankswitching and in most cases the cart dumper will read the 32K and Stella will automatically detect the game as DPC+/CDF/J/+ and run it properly.  The big issue here is that existing cartridges don't work and any that are made in this way don't work on a real Atari 2600.

 

Hope that helps!

John

 

[+wavemotion]

3 minutes ago, johnnywc said:

This game (the ROM) actually doesn't even run on a Harmony Encore since the Harmony carts can only support up to 32K Melody games, so yes for now the only way to play Turbo Arcade is either on a real cartridge purchased from Champ Games or on Stella 6.7 and the latest version of Gopher 2600 emulators.

... and StellaDS [squeak... squeak...] 

[+sramirez2008]

 

[tradyblix]

7 hours ago, johnnywc said:

Hello there!

 

Champ Games actually puts in many hours with developers of emulators, multi-carts, customers and, yes, even Atari, to assist in getting our games that were written for the Atari 2600 to work on as many systems as we can.  Every title we've developed was completed BEFORE the Atari 2600+ was released.  Helping Atari modify their 2600+ system so that it can support our existing and future games IS one of our priorities and we are doing all we can to make that possible.

Since this statement immediately follows your comment speculating what Champ Games priorities are, I will assume this is somewhat aimed at Champ Games also.  I personally have communicated with dozens of people that have reached out to me asking about 2600+ compatibility and I can assure you that not once was my reply "tough luck", it has been quite the opposite actually.   If this comment was not directed at Champ Games, please disregard.

 

All of our games run on an unmodified Atari 2600 or 100% compatible, therefore they are 2600 games by definition.  Not sure what your point is here.

Thanks for your kind words about Turbo Arcade!  This one took a long time to complete and is using the most resources of any game we have ever produced:  128K of ROM, 16K of RAM and a 70mhz ARM chip.

 

This game (the ROM) actually doesn't even run on a Harmony Encore since the Harmony carts can only support up to 32K Melody games, so yes for now the only way to play Turbo Arcade is either on a real cartridge purchased from Champ Games or on Stella 6.7 and the latest version of Gopher 2600 emulators (EDIT: and StellaDS too!  ).

Both of those 7800 games are excellent!  Champ Games develops for the Atari 2600 so for those that don't have a 7800 there is an option.  Bob D (PacManPlus) was nice enough to let us use the sounds from his 7800 Scramble in our 2600 version.  

With what I understand, Atari has figured out how to get DPC+ games to work on the 2600+ with a firmware update, so that includes Champ Games' Scramble.  We are actively working with Atari to hopefully get the other games working (through a firmware update) and we are also working with Atari to update the driver we use in our games so that any future Champ Games will be able to work with the 2600+, even if we are using the latest technology.  🤞

Hi there!   The issue is not with the emulator (Stella) - this supports all of the bank-switching methods you mentioned.  The issue is with the cart dumper (hardware) on the 2600+ and the firmware:  it cannot read the ROM that is stored on these cartridges due to a hardware limitation of the cart dumper.  As someone mentioned above, there are 'hacks' where you can burn the 32K ROM of a Melody game to an EEPROM using F4 bankswitching and in most cases the cart dumper will read the 32K and Stella will automatically detect the game as DPC+/CDF/J/+ and run it properly.  The big issue here is that existing cartridges don't work and any that are made in this way don't work on a real Atari 2600.

 

Hope that helps!

John

 

Great news, thanks for replying ! 

[Maztr_0n]

On 8/7/2024 at 7:52 PM, Stephen said:

Reading is hard and takes effort doesn't it?

This makes me think of that one tony zaret vine

 

I dont wanna read!!!! I want to Pizza!

 

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxSmfEF-Zr0DXlZ659JAa04xZDcERlmen9?si=X2Yj1dY5VcqvK7B8

 

Tbf i do get just wanting like a TL;DR and just wanting to know if you can play your game if stuff like rom details is not in your bag, but lets simmer down right now...

[+D Train]

On 8/8/2024 at 9:01 AM, johnnywc said:

We are actively working with Atari to hopefully get the other games working (through a firmware update) and we are also working with Atari to update the driver we use in our games so that any future Champ Games will be able to work with the 2600+, even if we are using the latest technology.  🤞

This is fantastic.  Great to hear!