CX78+ controller button placement. Question for users

[swiller]

Ordering 2 for my 2600+ and Crystal Quest. Excited, I fired up Crystal Quest in emulation and dread came over me. In the game, I often need to run and jump to clear most obstacles. Just like Super Mario Bros this requires you to hold down the left button to run and use the side of your thumb to jump with the right button.

Will the wide button placement CX78+ make this a problem?

[tradyblix]

1 minute ago, swiller said:

Ordering 2 for my 2600+ and Crystal Quest. Excited, I fired up Crystal Quest in emulation and dread came over me. In the game, I often need to run and jump to clear most obstacles. Just like Super Mario Bros this requires you to hold down the left button to run and use the side of your thumb to jump with the right button.

Will the wide button placement CX78+ make this a problem?

Yes. 

[swiller]

1 minute ago, tradyblix said:

Yes. 

Yikes it is the pack-in game for 7800+. Have you tried it?

[MarcinJ]

Yes, this is a bit awkward to play. At least for me who never had NES and played either with 🕹️ or Sony PS controllers. I wish jumping was available with just one button, but you have to press two.  It is doable though. 

[tradyblix]

2 minutes ago, swiller said:

Yikes it is the pack-in game for 7800+. Have you tried it?

I've played it on an emulator, and I know that the spacing of the buttons on that controller is wider, has grooves, and will feel different from a gameboy/NES controller.

 

Since neither the cart or the device in question has been released yet, that is the only way anyone could know.

 

It is what we call an "educated guess". I'm sure you'll adjust. 

Edited August 27 by tradyblix

[swiller]

1 minute ago, tradyblix said:

I've played it on an emulator, and I know that the spacing of the buttons on that controller is wider, has grooves, and will feel different from a gameboy/NES controller.

 

Since neither the cart or the device in question has been released yet, that is the only way anyone could know.

 

It is what we call an "educated guess". I'm sure you'll adjust. 

It has been available on AtariAge for quite some time. Maybe I should get one of those nes style controllers on ebay and buy one CX78+. The folks at Atari have the 7800+ with Crytal Quest and CX78 as a pack-in. Must have thought of this? Maybe not so bad. I never held the controller myself.

[tradyblix]

Imagine trying to play the way you're asking with a Pro-line lol. Man you'd really have trouble with that. 

[John Stamos Mullet]

8 minutes ago, tradyblix said:

I've played it on an emulator, and I know that the spacing of the buttons on that controller is wider, has grooves, and will feel different from a gameboy/NES controller.

 

Since neither the cart or the device in question has been released yet, that is the only way anyone could know.

 

It is what we call an "educated guess". I'm sure you'll adjust. 

He's not speaking from experience.

[tradyblix]

4 minutes ago, swiller said:

It has been available on AtariAge for quite some time. Maybe I should get one of those nes style controllers on ebay and buy one CX78+. The folks at Atari have the 7800+ with Crytal Quest and CX78 as a pack-in. Must have thought of this? Maybe not so bad. I never held the controller myself.

It's good to have multiple options. I personally have many, many pads and sticks and some control options are better than others for some games. The third party NES controllers are solid, I have one and it's different feeling from the CX78+. The CX78+ is more nostalgic, especially for europeans. 

 

The CX78+ wireless, assuming there's negligible additional lag, does have the additional advantage of not having wires, which most of them don't have. So there's that. 

 

Since I am getting the same bundle, I will probably get a wireless CX78+ at that time. 

 

I like the new cart tho, mainly because the original cart had god-awful art and the new one has nice cute art and I prefer the cart having that. 

Edited August 27 by tradyblix

[John Stamos Mullet]

2 minutes ago, swiller said:

It has been available on AtariAge for quite some time. Maybe I should get one of those nes style controllers on ebay and buy one CX78+. The folks at Atari have the 7800+ with Crytal Quest and CX78 as a pack-in. Must have thought of this? Maybe not so bad. I never held the controller myself.

Don't mind Trady. He's this forum's pathological liar who never knows what he's actually talking about.

 

I have the CX-78+ and have played Crystal Quest with it and it's fine.

[swiller]

1 minute ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

He's not speaking from experience.

Hoping someone has. You have to run and jump a lot in that game from the first level on.

[John Stamos Mullet]

1 minute ago, tradyblix said:

It's good to have multiple options. I personally have many, many pads and sticks and some control options are better than others for some games. 

 

The CX78+ wireless, assuming there's negligible additional lag, does have the additional advantage of not having wires, which most of them don't have. So there's that. 

 

Since I am getting the same bundle, I will probably get a wireless CX78+ at that time. 

 

I like the new cart tho, mainly because the original cart had god-awful art and the new one has nice cute art and I prefer the cart having that. 

Is this really necessary? The Artist who made that still posts here. Can you stop insulting people?

[swiller]

1 minute ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

Don't mind Trady. He's this forum's pathological liar who never knows what he's actually talking about.

 

I have the CX-78+ and have played Crystal Quest with it and it's fine.

Good to know thanks.

[tradyblix]

I don't listen to John so ignore him, he's a troll. he banned me in the past for saying something slightly negative about the CX78+ and set himself up as some kind of overlord on it, banning me from his topic about it, and I'm gonna fight back if he does more of his trolling BS. 

 

I have a CX78+, and I'm getting a wireless option version of it whenever Atari ships it. I also have multiple joysticks and third party NES controllers, which don't have rounded edges but do have better button placement and don't have grooves or the wire in an odd place.

 

So I DO know what I'm talking about. Just ignore anything he says that's negative, it will suit you well. 

 

As far as what you asked, using thumb across both buttons ? It's way easier on a third party NES controller than on a CX78+. Either way you'll adjust.

 

I'm sorry it seems like you're rather believe someone who hurls personal insults and goes unchecked on these forums abusing people, but can't do much about that. 

 

Another thing I'd like to point out 1.) I don't work for Atari or any affliated company. 2.) These are my opinions and experiences as a gamer. not because I want to sell you any specific controllers or have a vested interest in the success of any controller. and 3.) I just state my opinions and don't call others ugly names, unless they outright attack me. Then they get what they deserve.

 

BIG FACTS. 

Edited August 27 by tradyblix

[John Stamos Mullet]

20 minutes ago, tradyblix said:

I don't listen to John so ignore him, he's a troll. he banned me in the past for saying something slightly negative about the CX78+ and set himself up as some kind of overlord on it, banning me from his topic about it, and I'm gonna fight back if he does more of his trolling BS. 

 

I have a CX78+, and I'm getting a wireless option version of it whenever Atari ships it. I also have multiple joysticks and third party NES controllers, which don't have rounded edges but do have better button placement and don't have grooves or the wire in an odd place.

 

So I DO know what I'm talking about. Just ignore anything he says that's negative, it will suit you well. 

 

As far as what you asked, using thumb across both buttons ? It's way easier on a third party NES controller than on a CX78+. Either way you'll adjust.

 

I'm sorry it seems like you're rather believe someone who hurls personal insults and goes unchecked on these forums abusing people, but can't do much about that. 

 

 

I don't have the ability to ban anyone on here. I'm not a mod.

 

If the moderators banned you for something, it had nothing to do with me, and everything to do with you.

[Ben from Plaion]

44 minutes ago, swiller said:

Ordering 2 for my 2600+ and Crystal Quest. Excited, I fired up Crystal Quest in emulation and dread came over me. In the game, I often need to run and jump to clear most obstacles. Just like Super Mario Bros this requires you to hold down the left button to run and use the side of your thumb to jump with the right button.

Will the wide button placement CX78+ make this a problem?

When Atari told me that they wanted BBCQ as the pack-in with the 7800+ I asked @PacManPlus to send me a cart to play. He duly obliged, I plugged in my CX78+ into my 2600+ and was mortified that it was really hard to play due to exactly the point you bring up - you need to press and hold a run button and press the other button to jump, totally unuseable with the CX78+ and reported this back. Bob wrote back as politely as ever and just told me to change the buttons around with some dip switch settings and then BBCQ was a joy to play...I completed it and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. 

 

 

[swiller]

17 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

When Atari told me that they wanted BBCQ as the pack-in with the 7800+ I asked @PacManPlus to send me a cart to play. He duly obliged, I plugged in my CX78+ into my 2600+ and was mortified that it was really hard to play due to exactly the point you bring up - you need to press and hold a run button and press the other button to jump, totally unuseable with the CX78+ and reported this back. Bob wrote back as politely as ever and just told me to change the buttons around with some dip switch settings and then BBCQ was a joy to play...I completed it and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. 

 

 

Awesome. I just read there is a 2600 one-button joystick option where you push up to jump. What control scheme did you use? The game is challenging. A damn stationary rock will kill Bently. Don't get me started on the constantly appearing jumping skeletons. 😆

 

Edited August 27 by swiller

[Ben from Plaion]

12 minutes ago, swiller said:

Awesome. I just read there is a 2600 one-button joystick option where you push up to jump. What control scheme did you use? The game is challenging. A damn stationary rock will kill Bently. Don't get me started on the constantly appearing jumping skeletons. 😆

 

Without doubt for me is press and hold button 1 to run and jump with button 2.

Edited August 27 by Ben from Plaion

[PacManPlus]

Ben, you finished it already?  Damn - I should have made it more difficult

 

The game started out with the same button layout as SMB, as I figured that's what most people were used to: A to jump, and B to run and throw crystals.  As the game progressed and I was posting demos, people were asking me for other configurations such as reversing the button layout (B to jump and A to run and throw crystals).  Finally someone asked about the CX-40, so I made the option to have 'Up' jump and the single button to run and throw crystals.  I think I finally have everyone covered now 

 

[CPUWIZ]

5 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

When Atari told me that they wanted BBCQ as the pack-in with the 7800+ I asked @PacManPlus to send me a cart to play. He duly obliged, I plugged in my CX78+ into my 2600+ and was mortified that it was really hard to play due to exactly the point you bring up - you need to press and hold a run button and press the other button to jump, totally unuseable with the CX78+ and reported this back. Bob wrote back as politely as ever and just told me to change the buttons around with some dip switch settings and then BBCQ was a joy to play...I completed it and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. 

 

 

 

Can you post a pic of the cart, so I can send Bob a new one?  I kind of designed one of my boards just for this game, to make it a reality on cart back then and I am sure Bob wouldn't mind getting an "original" back.

 

@PacManPlus Don't you have the one and only patch?  I vaguely remember ShyOne making one.  You should post a pic of that, maybe Atari could do something like it.

[+sramirez2008]

5 minutes ago, CPUWIZ said:

 Don't you have the one and only patch?  I vaguely remember ShyOne making one.  You should post a pic of that, maybe Atari could do something like it

Yes please!

[+sramirez2008]

Btw, our very own Trebor has created and maintains the Atari 7800 Difficulty Switches Guide. It’s a great resource.

 

[Trebor]

For the record, most should set the console Difficulty Switches this way for Bentley Bear's Crystal Quest:

 

Left Difficulty Switch "A" Position + Right Difficulty Switch "B" position:
(AKA Super Mario Bros. layout)
Button 1 = Run & Shoot
Button 2 = Jump

 

Important: Button/controller layout is not "hot swappable".  If the Difficulty Switches are changed in the middle of a Round, the Round either needs to be restarted by the lost of life, or completed and a new Round started, before the changed button configuration will take effect.  It will not change in the middle of a round or life.  Of course, starting a brand new game will implement the current Difficulty Switches' configuration layout set on the console.

[swiller]

37 minutes ago, Trebor said:

For the record, most should set the console Difficulty Switches this way for Bentley Bear's Crystal Quest:

 

Left Difficulty Switch "A" Position + Right Difficulty Switch "B" position:
(AKA Super Mario Bros. layout)
Button 1 = Run & Shoot
Button 2 = Jump

 

Important: Button/controller layout is not "hot swappable".  If the Difficulty Switches are changed in the middle of a Round, the Round either needs to be restarted by the lost of life, or completed and a new Round started, before the changed button configuration will take effect.  It will not change in the middle of a round or life.  Of course, starting a brand new game will implement the current Difficulty Switches' configuration layout set on the console.

I think I'm confused. With the CX-78+ wouldn't combining run & jump in one button be best? hold down to run and let go to jump. Does just swapping the button help that?

[Trebor]

1 hour ago, swiller said:

I think I'm confused. With the CX-78+ wouldn't combining run & jump in one button be best? hold down to run and let go to jump. Does just swapping the button help that?

Combining Run and Jump into one button is not an option.   Run and Fire tied to one button and Jump tied to another is not only the same as the infamous SMB, but also for the game Bentley Bear's Crystal Quest started off as - a port of Wonder Boy.  For Wonder Boy, "Speed" and "Attack" is tied to one button and "Jump" is for the other button.

 

The other possible configuration with a two button controller is:

 

Left Difficulty Switch "A" Position + Right Difficulty Switch "A" position:
Button 1 = Jump
Button 2 = Run & Shoot

 

 

If a "true" one button controller is connected (IE CX40, CX40+), the following option is possible:

 

Left Difficulty Switch "B" Position + Right Difficulty Switch "A" or "B" position:
Up = Jump
Button = Run & Shoot

 

 

Important: 

1.  Trying to utilize the "true" one button controller layout above with an actual 2 button controller connected to the console will not work (properly) including under original Atari 7800 system hardware.

 

2.  There is a known issue with trying to utilize a one button controller under the 2600+ console with Bentley Bear's Crystal Quest.  It does not function properly.  This is an issue with the way the one button joystick operates under 7800 mode for the 2600+ console.  Issues are also demonstrated with 7800 Asteroids when tested under the same one button controller conditions.