Major Havoc 2049 Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 I had to turn off MouseLook because I can't move the mouse straight left or right Ah. Now I think I understand your dislike for mouse-based input. So, in Windows you can't move the cursor straight across the screen? Oh well, clearly you've made your mind up. I'll just leave you with some facts: 1. Auto-aim is a standard default-on feature of console FPSs, but not PC FPSs. 2. Competition-level FPS gamers never use gamepads for aiming. And Gunstar is clearly an alien or a robot. We had a similar discussion about this on the modern games boards here at Atari Age not to long ago. I'm with Gunstar, some of you mouse/keyboard diehards are still living in 90's, the pre Xbox days. Here are some more facts, gamepads on the PC suck arse, I wouldn't use one to play a FPS either...ON THE PC. The hardcore Xbox FPS fans turn the Auto-Aim feature off and sensitivity way up, if you want to get quick kill headshots anyways and want to compete with the good FPS players at lan tournaments and online. Some weapons in the PC versions of Halo and the latest Unreal Tournament have a slight auto-aim. The Covenant weapons in Halo on both the PC and XB version have a slight auto-aim. Here is some of my post on Atari Age about the subject: "It is on the PC. The XB controller works excellent for FPS on the XB. Halo is a good example for instance. There are some moves in Halo that can be done on the XB that are very hard to do on the PC. There is a big debate over at the Bungie.net forums about the kb/mouse vs XB controller issue. It seems most Halo players prefer the XB controller to the kb/mouse. Now this is just Halo and the XB controller vs the kb/mouse and doesn’t refer to all console gamepads vs the kb/mouse combo. Remember, the XB controller was made with the FPS genre in mind. Anyways, this is what I posted on the Bungie.net, Halo PC forums: “I prefer the XB controller myself, there are some moves in XB Halo that just don't work that well with the keyboard/mouse combo on the PC. It is harder to run in multiple directions and stay on target with a kb/mouse combo, because you need to lift the mouse up, but easy with the XB controller. It is very important to move/shot and stay on target all at the same time, especially on the small maps. The Plasma Pistol is almost worthless on the PC, because it is hard to move in a circular motion around your opponent, utilizing the Plasma Pistol’s stun capabilities.” Source: http://www.atariage.com/forums/viewtopic.p...=fps+controller Jasoco, id did the port of Jaguar Doom themselves. The SNES port of Doom was farmed out, not sure about the 32X version. Didn't John Carmack give Songbird their Jag development tools to help Carl get started in Jag developement? If so, I respect Carmack and id even more. Props to id and Doom for 10 great years of fun. Masters of Doom is a great read if your a fan of the FPS genre. Can't wait till Doom 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper_Eye Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 It is the same game. It loads your WAD files as usual. Some of the new Doom ports are excellent. Legacy Doom is probably the best client for OpenGL. It is also the best for a P2P multiplayer experience (even the playing field among all players by removing the issue of ping time.) ZDaemon is by far the best Multiplayer port their is. It is an excellent implementation of TCP/IP gameplay for Doom. It takes advantage of a very nice Launcher application that allows you to find servers, look at other players stats, read news, etc. In the game itself ZDaemon supports skins (I remember when the skins first came out... the Heretic ones were excellent. That stupid bird though... I am glad they removed it. You could never find your opponent.) You have to give credit to CSDoom of course as without it ZDaemon would not even exist and it was the best way IMO to get your multiplayher kicks before ZDaemon arrived. Sure... there was DoomServ back then and everyone was on it but at the end of the day I would end up searching out a good CSDoom server. So now we have Doom Connector which is, in a sense, the replacement for DoomServ. IMO it is much better then DoomServ ever was. It has a great interface and chat system with sound support. It supports about every port you want to use. You can use it not only to connect to ZDaemon and CSDoom servers (as you could with DoomServ), you can also use it to check the master lists (as opposed to only seeing the games the players created.) All in all, if you want a quick way to actually challenge someone before jumping in a game this is the way to do it (Zdaemon is a get in, kill, leave when your done scenario... don't really talk to your opponent much.) There are some other projects coming along that I would like to see complete. Skulltag is probably the most anticipated. I think it is the most modernized port of Doom. Not only is skulltag itself a fun game, it adds the elements of bots to Doom (they would almost seem to be Quake3 bots who took a wrong turn, as bots sometimes do, and ended up in Doom.) The bots support responses to actions (killing, dying, etc.) and having conversations amongst themselves. I also find SkullTag to be a quite colorful port. So there you have it... my take on a few of the most popular Doom ports of today. http://www.xodemultimedia.com/connector.php? http://csdoom.sourceforge.net http://www.zdaemon.org http://legacy.newdoom.com/ http://doomworld.com/skulltag/ http://www.doomworld.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 It is on the PC. The XB controller works excellent for FPS on the XB. Halo is a good example for instance. There are some moves in Halo that can be done on the XB that are very hard to do on the PC. There is a big debate over at the Bungie.net forums about the kb/mouse vs XB controller issue. It seems most Halo players prefer the XB controller to the kb/mouse. Now this is just Halo and the XB controller vs the kb/mouse and doesn’t refer to all console gamepads vs the kb/mouse combo. Remember, the XB controller was made with the FPS genre in mind. Solution: Turn the mouse sensivity up - so easy, so nice. BTW Halo is a crappy port so don't expect it to be optimized for the PC peripherals. From what i read here, these "complex" moves you mentioned are quite trivial for m/k. Maybe its complex to execute it with a controller but not with k/b. M/k are THE input devices for FPS, because the whole genre was intended and designed for use with it. Free mouse look rules! And i dont expect x-box fanboy arguments to be objective as they tend to construct their own reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 And Gunstar is clearly an alien or a robot. Have even bothered to read my posts at all and UNDERSTAND them? I PREFER A CONTROLLER, MODERN OR OTHERWISE OVER A KEYBOARD. If I coud play an FPS game with ONLY a mouse, I'd be alright with that. I don't neccessarily prefer analog controls over a mouse, but have no problem with them like you guys seem to. I hate KEYBOARDS for playing games, I'll take a didital game pad ANY DAY over using a keyboard to play a game. It's the keyboard I don't like playing games on, it IS NOT as good as a pad and damn awkward to use as far as I'm concerned. If I am a Robot or Alien because I like to play games with real input devices and not a keyboard than so be it. But you will NEVER convince me that a keyboard is better for playing games. If you think it's the way to play games then you are the Alien to me. How can you possibly say with a straight face that playing a game with a keyboard is better than a controller, ANY controller, including a mouse?!? What I am coming to understand from your preferences is that you'd just as soon they supply keyboards to play video games with consoles instead of controllers?!?!? That controllers on PC's are worthless because the keyboard, in your mind, is so much more ergonomically designed?!?!? WHO is the ALIEN/Robot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megamaniac Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Doom 3. Better sell the car, quit my job and find a cave somewhere soon I guess. Good thing I was already done with school when Doom came out!!! Let me see how many sick days I have built up from work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megamaniac Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Id sure does not put much effort into their website! I just checked it out and expected to see some mention of it. Nothing I could see. Did get to glimpse the Doom 3 images. Sick how good they look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Havoc 2049 Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Solution: Turn the mouse sensivity up - so easy, so nice. BTW Halo is a crappy port so don't expect it to be optimized for the PC peripherals. From what i read here, these "complex" moves you mentioned are quite trivial for m/k. Maybe its complex to execute it with a controller but not with k/b. M/k are THE input devices for FPS, because the whole genre was intended and designed for use with it. Free mouse look rules! And i dont expect x-box fanboy arguments to be objective as they tend to construct their own reality. I never said that the mouse was slow, so why your mouse sensitivity comment? The kb/m combo is great for the quick snap turn around move. I also never said that the moves in my post on the Bungie.net boards were complex, just that they were easy to execute on XB Halo with a controller and sloppy with the kb/m combo on the PC. Every time you lift up the mouse to move it to the other side of the mousepad, the crosshairs move slightly as well, combine this with the movement of your enemy and you'll find that it is impossible to stay on target while moving in a circular motion or multiple directions. There is that split second when you are moving your mouse to the other side of the mousepad, that you have absolutely NO control over you crosshair and the movement is jerky. Please don’t stoop to the fanboy banter. I’ve played many a FPS on the PC, going all the way back to my first FPS game, Wolfenstein: Spear of Destiny. How many hours of Halo PC have you logged and what Halo Clan do you belong to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stone Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Tell me something. How do you play with a mouse? Where are your hands? How do you handle having to pick up the damn thing every few seconds to reposition it before it leaves the matt? Do you also use the keyboard? This is what I do. When I try playing with a mouse, I feel I need three hands. The mouse is too much a chore for me. And I am perfectly contempt with just a keyboard or a superior Xbox controller. Mouse+keyb is the way to go, as far as I'm concerned I just whack the mouse sensitivity waaaay up (usually it's at max, in Unreal/UT/UT2003 it's about 8-9/10) and then I never have to pick the mouse up Stone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasoco Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 DOOM 3 will only satisfy me if it retains the same old feel. No awkward story or puzzles. Just straight old DOOM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 . Every time you lift up the mouse to move it to the other side of the mousepad, the crosshairs move slightly as well, combine this with the movement of your enemy and you'll find that it is impossible to stay on target while moving in a circular motion or multiple directions. There is that split second when you are moving your mouse to the other side of the mousepad, that you have absolutely NO control over you crosshair and the movement is jerky. This is only if you didn't configure the mouse sensivity right. Lifting the mouse from the pad is clearly an indicator for too low sensivity. HALO (PC) is sloppy as default - you have to turn it up to the max to get a decent feel with the mouse. Did i already mention that the HALO port is sloppy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 DOOM 3 will only satisfy me if it retains the same old feel. No awkward story or puzzles. Just straight old DOOM. Doom always had puzzles and a story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megamaniac Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 DOOM 3 will only satisfy me if it retains the same old feel. No awkward story or puzzles. Just straight old DOOM. Doom always had puzzles and a story Puzzles? Story? All I recall is hidden rooms or areas, and the story being two paragraphs of...you are trapped...you must kill....now go forth and do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasoco Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 DOOM 3 will only satisfy me if it retains the same old feel. No awkward story or puzzles. Just straight old DOOM. Doom always had puzzles and a story Puzzles? Story? All I recall is hidden rooms or areas, and the story being two paragraphs of...you are trapped...you must kill....now go forth and do it! And that's what I want DOOM 3 to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atariboy Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 What's with this lifting the mouse thing some of you mention? I should video tape myself playing a fps, because if that occurs I don't ever notice doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 I prefer the XB controller myself, there are some moves in XB Halo that just don't work that well with the keyboard/mouse combo on the PC. [snip] The Plasma Pistol is almost worthless on the PC, because it is hard to move in a circular motion around your opponent, utilizing the Plasma Pistol’s stun capabilities. *chuckle* *guffaw* This "move" that supposedly is so much easier with the XBox controller is called "circle-strafing". It's been around for years. PC gamers invented it. It is NOT hard to do with a mouse/keyboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thund3r Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 i totally agree! "no one can stop mr domino" kicks ass! wot the hell does that have to do with anything?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Havoc 2049 Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 I prefer the XB controller myself, there are some moves in XB Halo that just don't work that well with the keyboard/mouse combo on the PC. [snip] The Plasma Pistol is almost worthless on the PC, because it is hard to move in a circular motion around your opponent, utilizing the Plasma Pistol’s stun capabilities. *chuckle* *guffaw* This "move" that supposedly is so much easier with the XBox controller is called "circle-strafing". It's been around for years. PC gamers invented it. It is NOT hard to do with a mouse/keyboard. Way to take a statement out of context, you so funny. "The side-step/circle-strafing" combo move is hard to do with the plasma pistol with Halo PC....even with the mouse sensitivity turned all the way up on your PC. Halo PC requires different strategies than those on the Xbox, because of the clunky control the kb/m combo provides. If you don't believe me, then head on over to bungie.net and you will find that most Halo players prefer the control on the XB, over the PC. I was just pointing Halo out as an example because some of you guys were acting like it was written in stone somewhere that console FPS fans use auto-aim because they have to and that the kb/m combo is always better. Play Return to Castle Wolfenstein on Live with auto-aim on and you will get smoked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory DG Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Auto aim is for wimps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 The other thing is that HALO isn't THE FPS which defines the genre. I know a lot of better ones on PC, especially in both sp and mp. If x-box people think HALO controls better with a controller, thats fine. But this does not mean in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 DOOM 3 will only satisfy me if it retains the same old feel. No awkward story or puzzles. Just straight old DOOM. Doom always had puzzles and a story Puzzles? Story? All I recall is hidden rooms or areas, and the story being two paragraphs of...you are trapped...you must kill....now go forth and do it! Story was you were a marine put into hell or something like that There were keys and doors and such - Nothing super challenging but there were things to figure out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultravi0let Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 The other thing is that HALO isn't THE FPS which defines the genre.I know a lot of better ones on PC, please name them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory DG Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 The other thing is that HALO isn't THE FPS which defines the genre.I know a lot of better ones on PC, please name them The Quake series is the game that defined the genre in the beginning. The defining FPS game today is Half-Life (and soon Half-Life 2) and Counter Strike (which I don't even play.) If Halo had come out for the PC first, it might have become more respected than it is. Now it's become just a console to PC port quickly forgotten in the shadow of the upcoming Half-Life 2 and Doom 3. Don't get me wrong, Halo is a fun game, but it just got lost and buried in the deluge of other good FPS games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultravi0let Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 The other thing is that HALO isn't THE FPS which defines the genre.I know a lot of better ones on PC, please name them The Quake series is the game that defined the genre in the beginning. The defining FPS game today is Half-Life (and soon Half-Life 2) and Counter Strike (which I don't even play.) If Halo had come out for the PC first, it might have become more respected than it is. Now it's become just a console to PC port quickly forgotten in the shadow of the upcoming Half-Life 2 and Doom 3. Don't get me wrong, Halo is a fun game, but it just got lost and buried in the deluge of other good FPS games. your forgeting GoldenEye though, which came out before Half-Life and is mildly better. the Quake Series only defined multi-player, as the single has allways been sadly lacking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory DG Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 your forgeting GoldenEye though, which came out before Half-Life and is mildly better. the Quake Series only defined multi-player, as the single has allways been sadly lacking Goldeneye? No one plays that game anymore. Besides, I thought we were talking about PC games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultravi0let Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 how meny people play Half-Life single player now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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