jaysmith2000 Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Hello Saturn! I find it odd that all the "experts" here on economics, supply and demand, writing an entire Jaguar game from scratch and producing and selling that game in your spare time at a loss haven't taken me up on my courteous invitation to come on over to JSII and participate with the creators in a lively discussion about the facts- and not all the misinformed drivel that seems to be (endlessly) happening here. I'd wanted carry the discussion over "as I don't wish to clutter up AtariAge with exchanges of this sort, but for reasons I can't seem to fathom- my posts are picked apart by individuals who apparently hung on every word I wrote except these: But, we're having a field day with this over at JS-II so pop in and have a peek. I can give you an explanation: Giving a concrete URL to a JS-II thread does help only JS-II members, all other people get an error-message-screen (I know it is a login-screen, but it starts with "The following Error..."). Best regards Matthias Yes, that's very true, you must login under a user id in order to access JSII. After much though I decided this was the best way to do these forums. No one is ever denied access nor are any posts ever edited, closed or anyone banned. It's a very "open" forum. Some folks don't like this because of some of the discussions that ensue at times, but I personally feel it's the best approach. Just my personal opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K3V Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 You have to sign up for an account to participate at JSII. Just create an account, post 10 messages and you'll have full access to the forums. See you over there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K3V Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Whoops, Jay beat me to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaysmith2000 Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 I'm not sure folks realize that JSII is the home to the following people: BJ West - Producer Black Ice/White Noise Ken Rose - ex-Atari Programmer who worked on several projects Steve Scavone - Gorf 3D and others.... T-bird - Battlesphere Oppressor - Battlesphere The entire BIWN team (artists & programmers) There are many exclusives on there that aren't found anywhere else on the internet. Just thought I'd throw it out there for the newbies..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcat Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Hi Jason! I'm not sure folks realize that JSII is the home to the following people: BJ West - Producer Black Ice/White Noise Ken Rose - ex-Atari Programmer who worked on several projects Steve Scavone - Gorf 3D and others.... T-bird - Battlesphere Oppressor - Battlesphere The entire BIWN team (artists & programmers) There are many exclusives on there that aren't found anywhere else on the internet. Just thought I'd throw it out there for the newbies..... I do realise that. Still personally I prefer forums like JI2 and Atariage where one can read (and in the case of JI2 even post without having to register). While it is true that one could simply register post a few posts and then gain access to the Jag area, I know many people (and also Jag fans) who just do not want to do that. I can understand it and feel similar. I do not want to register for reading a forum. It's more of a principle question in my opinion. Even the exclusive items do not make me that curious. From my past experience, JS2 is a lot like JI2 and AtariAge in the past when it comes to flame wars. I just got tired of that. I don't think that's fun to read anymore, certainly being part of a flame war isn't fun either. Maybe the rather flame war free environment of AtariAge spoiled me The memberlist also doesn't make me post any more than I would without those "famous" (at least in the Jag universe) people on the list. I mean, I could post on the llamasoft forum, just to talk to Jeff Minter, but I do not. Why not? Simply because, even though I think his games are really great, I just don't have much to talk about with him. Sure he could talk about his atari experiences, but I am sure he has done that so often that it is boring to him now. On the memberlist on AtariAge I could actually point out the same.. -BJ West is also on AtariAge -Linkovitch is here -Atariowl is here (although he is usually silent) -Symmetry is here -A lot of french developers are here -Matthias is here -JustClaws is here -I am here -Even my brother subscribed here and follows the discussions, even though he is no Atari fan. Whatever. To me the number of well known people isn't really a reason to post on a forum. The reason I post on a forum is, because friends are there and it is nice to talk about similar interests or help people who have questions. Not allowing flame wars to happen is not a restriction of free speech in my opinion. It's rather a way of supporting free speeach. In flame wars it is always the "loudest" one who wins, just like it is in war. The one with superior technology wins, not the ones who want to find a peaceful, more clever solution that could actually fix the problems that lead to the war. In a peaceful discussion everybody can point out his opinions and actually learn something new and get new ideas without bad feelings involved. Anyway. Just my personal opinion. Regards, Lars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcat Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Hi! On this member list topic, another thing came to my mind... There are more people just reading the forums than you can probably imagine. On the last Ejagfest I was surprised seeing many new faces of people just reading the forums out of interest, but not even having an account. Although I do the same on other forums actually. I do not create an account until I actually have something that I want to post. Regards, Lars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaysmith2000 Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Hi Jason! I'm not sure folks realize that JSII is the home to the following people: BJ West - Producer Black Ice/White Noise Ken Rose - ex-Atari Programmer who worked on several projects Steve Scavone - Gorf 3D and others.... T-bird - Battlesphere Oppressor - Battlesphere The entire BIWN team (artists & programmers) There are many exclusives on there that aren't found anywhere else on the internet. Just thought I'd throw it out there for the newbies..... I do realise that. Still personally I prefer forums like JI2 and Atariage where one can read (and in the case of JI2 even post without having to register). While it is true that one could simply register post a few posts and then gain access to the Jag area, I know many people (and also Jag fans) who just do not want to do that. I can understand it and feel similar. I do not want to register for reading a forum. It's more of a principle question in my opinion. Even the exclusive items do not make me that curious. From my past experience, JS2 is a lot like JI2 and AtariAge in the past when it comes to flame wars. I just got tired of that. I don't think that's fun to read anymore, certainly being part of a flame war isn't fun either. Maybe the rather flame war free environment of AtariAge spoiled me The memberlist also doesn't make me post any more than I would without those "famous" (at least in the Jag universe) people on the list. I mean, I could post on the llamasoft forum, just to talk to Jeff Minter, but I do not. Why not? Simply because, even though I think his games are really great, I just don't have much to talk about with him. Sure he could talk about his atari experiences, but I am sure he has done that so often that it is boring to him now. On the memberlist on AtariAge I could actually point out the same.. -BJ West is also on AtariAge -Linkovitch is here -Atariowl is here (although he is usually silent) -Symmetry is here -A lot of french developers are here -Matthias is here -JustClaws is here -I am here -Even my brother subscribed here and follows the discussions, even though he is no Atari fan. Whatever. To me the number of well known people isn't really a reason to post on a forum. The reason I post on a forum is, because friends are there and it is nice to talk about similar interests or help people who have questions. Not allowing flame wars to happen is not a restriction of free speech in my opinion. It's rather a way of supporting free speeach. In flame wars it is always the "loudest" one who wins, just like it is in war. The one with superior technology wins, not the ones who want to find a peaceful, more clever solution that could actually fix the problems that lead to the war. In a peaceful discussion everybody can point out his opinions and actually learn something new and get new ideas without bad feelings involved. Anyway. Just my personal opinion. Regards, Lars. I certainly respect your opinion Lars, but every member you listed aside from BeeJ (who frequents JSII but not AA) has never had a game published and never worked at Atari. All but one that I listed has done one or the other. I'm certainly not trying to demean their contributions, I'm just saying it's comparing apples to oranges in my opinion. It's kinda cool to ask a question like, "I wonder what Sam Tramiel said when ......." and you get a response, "Well, he said ........". Having said that, I'm still very excited about Eerievale! I hope your finding time to work on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Harlow Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 I certainly respect your opinion Lars, but every member you listed aside from BeeJ (who frequents JSII but not AA) has never had a game published and never worked at Atari. All but one that I listed has done one or the other. I'm certainly not trying to demean their contributions, I'm just saying it's comparing apples to oranges in my opinion. It's kinda cool to ask a question like, "I wonder what Sam Tramiel said when ......." and you get a response, "Well, he said ........". ..speaking as someone who did work for Atari (UK), But seriously.... I read JS2 and AA.... and I have to say I do prefer AA, purely for the Starcat reason I feel it's a lot more friendly without quite so many egos getting in the way. Also I have to say I know JustClaws, I know most of the European developers who are actively trying to support the Jaguar and just because they may not have had a mainline release out (which today whould be a minor miracle) doesn't give them a right not to have a view or response. I don't agree with them all the time... On the other side I have supported and admire Jay for the downloads made available in JS2. I admire the work Thunderbird and others did in BS:GE - I wish I could have done more business with them for BS:G but the lack of supply does drive demand and there are people who will pay practically anything for the game. I wish some of the technical programming expertise from the primarily American programmers who have released product could be somehow passed on to the people who are trying to support the Jag, after all with a "dead" ( ) console who would it damage. But then again I am only a megabuck retailer!! wish... Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinkoVitch Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Wow I got mentioned! > I must say I prefer it here at AA, I like the forums and the people here, this is the website that got me to dig out my old Atari gear that was sat dormant in a cupboard and hook it up again. This is the place I got the interest to open up and tinker with the Jag. I also like the forum interface at AA better than JSII (probably down to familiarity and comfort but thats the reason I use the software I use etc). Also quite a large number of people who I have chatted to here on AA I have actually met in person and had a great time with, even those in Europe (who cruely have their events with real beer and super tastey food ) (oh and I have spoken with Leonard Tramiel myself too seemed like a nice enough chap, but as lars said didn't have a lot to talk to him about) I haven't posted or read much anywhere due to absolute and complete lack of time, I feel really bad for having nothing to show, but in my heart there are games waiting to come out, however the amount of time that is absorbed by 2 small children is quite an impressive quantity. And I still chat to people on ICQ/MSN so kinda keep in touch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari_Owl Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 On the memberlist on AtariAge I could actually point out the same.. -BJ West is also on AtariAge -Linkovitch is here -Atariowl is here (although he is usually silent) -Symmetry is here -A lot of french developers are here -Matthias is here -JustClaws is here -I am here -Even my brother subscribed here and follows the discussions, even though he is no Atari fan. Looks like the future Sorry I'm so quiet these days, keeping head down and getting on with things. When its ready to talk about - that's when i'll talk about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy the Atarian Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 But seriously.... I read JS2 and AA.... and I have to say I do prefer AA, purely for the Starcat reason I feel it's a lot more friendly without quite so many egos getting in the way. Nick So many egos? Have any names? This whole AA vs. JS2 thing is ridiculous. Why don't you T-Bird haters just plainly say that you don't like JS2 because you don't like T-Bird and that's where he posts? Is it really that hard to say/admit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 This thread has veered quite a bit off course, and I don't want this to turn into a pissing match between those who prefer AA versus those who prefer JSII so I'm locking it now. ..Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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