Atari5200 Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 A 64k memory upgrade board for the 5200 would be trivial to create. The real problem is, would enough people actually pay for one to justify making them? And of course there is the problem that only specially written new software would even be aware of or able to use the extra ram. Steve That was the very same issue that us GP32 users and homebrewers had years ago with the GP32. It was limited to 8mb of ram, which made some SNES games unplayable and Neo-Geo impossible, among other things. A few people did do the upgrade since it was relatively easy, but IIRC, no software was ever developed for it that actually took advantage of the RAM upgrade. I would think a 5200 upgrade you would probably be in the same situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 A 64k memory upgrade board for the 5200 would be trivial to create. The real problem is, would enough people actually pay for one to justify making them? And of course there is the problem that only specially written new software would even be aware of or able to use the extra ram. Steve That was the very same issue that us GP32 users and homebrewers had years ago with the GP32. It was limited to 8mb of ram, which made some SNES games unplayable and Neo-Geo impossible, among other things. A few people did do the upgrade since it was relatively easy, but IIRC, no software was ever developed for it that actually took advantage of the RAM upgrade. I would think a 5200 upgrade you would probably be in the same situation. That's why you need game to go along with it. Something to get the ball rolling. I thing Seven Cities of Gold would be a great 'starter' game. It only needs 64K, is a popular game, and doesn't require many keys in the game. It mostly uses the fire button for everything. The advantage over what you were talking about is that we have hundreds of games to choose from that could be converted to run on a 64K 5200. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Being that the 5200 is a slimmed down 400, you would probably find the 48K Axlon upgrade (like the ones in the 400/800) would be more likely. I would like to get my 5200 up to Atari 800 standards, then if we can get a game that is beyond 16K to try out, cool. Unfortunately, things like the Atarimax cart tend to be designed for 16K blocks I believe, so loader a larger game that way wouldn't currently be possible (as we learned with Bounty Bob Strikes Back.) Still interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari5200 Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 (edited) A 64k memory upgrade board for the 5200 would be trivial to create. The real problem is, would enough people actually pay for one to justify making them? And of course there is the problem that only specially written new software would even be aware of or able to use the extra ram. Steve That was the very same issue that us GP32 users and homebrewers had years ago with the GP32. It was limited to 8mb of ram, which made some SNES games unplayable and Neo-Geo impossible, among other things. A few people did do the upgrade since it was relatively easy, but IIRC, no software was ever developed for it that actually took advantage of the RAM upgrade. I would think a 5200 upgrade you would probably be in the same situation. That's why you need game to go along with it. Something to get the ball rolling. I thing Seven Cities of Gold would be a great 'starter' game. It only needs 64K, is a popular game, and doesn't require many keys in the game. It mostly uses the fire button for everything. The advantage over what you were talking about is that we have hundreds of games to choose from that could be converted to run on a 64K 5200. Allan Yes, and the GP32 could have had hundreds of games ran on specific emulators if the ram upgrade would have taken off. You could have had Neo Geo, maybe not full speed, you could have had more MAME, and who knows how many or what kind of homebrew games could have been, all the while the system was still in production. The 5200 is not in production, that is a huge disadvantage. GBAX.com IIRC even offered the ram upgrade, and they were the main distributor for the European launch, and even today is a very large and good distributor for Gamepark. Even with the idea of Neo Geo, better Mame, it still wasn't enough for people to want to upgrade. I would think this situation would be no different and somewhat worse because the system is no longer in circulation, you basically have to cater and sell it to the crowd of people that already own or are actively looking for one, and out of those, how many would actually pay for the mod, do it themselves, and then how many would utilize it. I know myself personally, I probably wouldn't be interested and the 5200 is my favorite classic console. It would probably just be cheaper to buy the actual hardware the game was intended for. Edited August 19, 2008 by Atari5200 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artlover Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 (edited) The real problem is, would enough people actually pay for one to justify making them? Why does one assume it has to be made as a product to be sold? Just write up schematics, and let people build their own if they want. Like everyone used to do back in the old 400/800/C64 days. Edited August 19, 2008 by Artlover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 I know myself personally, I probably wouldn't be interested and the 5200 is my favorite classic console. It would probably just be cheaper to buy the actual hardware the game was intended for. Well, than I think you are missing the whole point. If you are trying to be practical then a PC with emulator is your best route. There's nothing wrong with at all. The modern day emulators are fantastic. I even occasionally use them. And if you are less practical and have an 8-bit computer, you can play all these games pretty cheaply. Now for people who are really into the 5200 and really want more games on the real machine than this is something some people would want. It really would be fantastic to see a game like Seven Cities of Gold on the 5200. Or maybe even something like Solo Flight, one of my all time favorite games. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Being that the 5200 is a slimmed down 400, you would probably find the 48K Axlon upgrade (like the ones in the 400/800) would be more likely. I would like to get my 5200 up to Atari 800 standards, then if we can get a game that is beyond 16K to try out, cool. Unfortunately, things like the Atarimax cart tend to be designed for 16K blocks I believe, so loader a larger game that way wouldn't currently be possible (as we learned with Bounty Bob Strikes Back.) Still interested. I beleive the issue with BB is the copyright, not the memory size. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari5200 Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 The real problem is, would enough people actually pay for one to justify making them? Why does one assume it has to be made as a product to be sold? Just write up schematics, and let people build their own if they want. Like everyone used to do back in the old 400/800/C64 days. This is what I based my posting on. I'm not trying to be an ass, I'm looking at it from a production point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Being that the 5200 is a slimmed down 400, you would probably find the 48K Axlon upgrade (like the ones in the 400/800) would be more likely. I would like to get my 5200 up to Atari 800 standards, then if we can get a game that is beyond 16K to try out, cool. Unfortunately, things like the Atarimax cart tend to be designed for 16K blocks I believe, so loader a larger game that way wouldn't currently be possible (as we learned with Bounty Bob Strikes Back.) Still interested. I beleive the issue with BB is the copyright, not the memory size. Allan I stand corrected... the rom images are 16K or 32K most of the time. BBSB is 40K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 seeming as though the 5200 is a stripped out 400, doesn't it also have the same bank switch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slampam Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 (edited) I didn't realize the 600Xl could pop a 64k expansion unit on the back port. Looks nearly like the same port as the 5200, but nothing with the 5200 is ever that easy. Schematics alone for a 5200 memory upgrade daughterboard (or whatever) would be welcome for rainy day. Atari 1064 memory expansion module schematics http://jsobola.republika.pl/schematy.htm Edited August 20, 2008 by slampam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 (edited) The expansion port is a male cartridge port. It's just the same size and same number of pins, it's not the same signals. It make it easier so that if somebody wanted to make a something that used the expansion port, they can use the 5200 cartridge connector. It's possible that Best but have a bunch of these still. The expansion ports on the 8-bit computers are completely different in size, pin numbers, and of course signals. Allan Edited August 20, 2008 by Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Please note that the XL expansion port is different from the xe expansion port (and apparently theres an expansion port on the old 800) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classics Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 The 5200 expansion port is not the same as the cartridge port. It has the Pokey serial i/o lines on it, as well as a small assigned window for a rom decode not normally used in the 5200. If anything, it could be used to attach a disk drive, keyboard, or some small bit of hardware addressed in that little memory window, but it can't replace the cartridge port. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 No, the 2-ports also have the expansion port. If I remember correctly, the NES systems also had an expansion port, which I believe was never used either. I don't know if anyone has replied to this yet, but the Nintendo 8-Bit did in fact make use of that expansion bus on the bottom. I don't think officially by Nintendo, but when I went to prep school back in 1990-1992, a bunch of kids who were from Japan had 3.5" floppy drives that were hooked up to this port. This one kid had a bunch of games on floppy disk, and he would just stick them in, hold down the reset buttton, and when he released, the game would load from the 3.5 floppy. Pretty cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 The 5200 expansion port is not the same as the cartridge port. It has the Pokey serial i/o lines on it, as well as a small assigned window for a rom decode not normally used in the 5200. If anything, it could be used to attach a disk drive, keyboard, or some small bit of hardware addressed in that little memory window, but it can't replace the cartridge port. Steve Yea, I kind of figured I wasn't being clear. The only similarities are the size and number of pins. What each pin does is different. You could use a 5200 cartridge connector to build a expansion port device, you just can't use it as a cartridge port because the pins connect to different stuff. Hopefully I'm a little more clear. Here's the signals for the two ports. Cartridge port: D0 1 36 Interlock D1 2 35 A11 D2 3 34 A12 D3 4 33 A10 D4 5 32 A13 D5 6 31 A9 D6 7 30 Audio In (2 port) D7 8 29 A8 Enable 80-8F 9 28 Not Connected Enable 40-7F 10 27 A7 Not Connected 11 26 +5V DC Ground 12 25 Ground Ground 13 24 Ground (Video In on 2 port) Ground (System Clock 02 on 2 port) 14 23 Ground A6 15 22 A4 A5 16 21 A3 A2 17 20 A1 Interlock 18 19 A0 Expansion Port: Top Bottom ----------------------------------------------- +5V DC 1 36 +5V DC Audio Out (2 port) 2 35 Not connected Ground 3 34 Ground R/W Early 4 33 Not connected Enable E0-EF 5 32 D7 D6 6 31 D5 D4 7 30 D3 D2 8 29 D1 D0 9 28 Ground IRQ 10 27 A0 Ground 11 26 A1 Serial Data In 12 25 A2 Serial In Clock 13 24 A3 Serial Out Clock 14 23 A4 Serial Data Out 15 22 A5 Audio In 16 21 A6 A14 17 20 A7 System Clock 01 18 19 A11 They both have 36 pins and they both are the same size, but have different signals. If only they had included a read/write on the cartridge port so you could had more RAM from the cartridge like the 7800. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClausB Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 The 5200 expansion port is not the same as the cartridge port. It has the Pokey serial i/o lines on it, as well as a small assigned window for a rom decode not normally used in the 5200. Expansion Port: Top Bottom ----------------------------------------------- +5V DC 1 36 +5V DC Audio Out (2 port) 2 35 Not connected Ground 3 34 Ground R/W Early 4 33 Not connected Enable E0-EF 5 32 D7 D6 6 31 D5 D4 7 30 D3 D2 8 29 D1 D0 9 28 Ground IRQ 10 27 A0 Ground 11 26 A1 Serial Data In 12 25 A2 Serial In Clock 13 24 A3 Serial Out Clock 14 23 A4 Serial Data Out 15 22 A5 Audio In 16 21 A6 A14 17 20 A7 System Clock 01 18 19 A11 Has anyone figured out what A14 is doing on that Expansion Port? You do need A11 and "Enable E0-EF" to select pages $E0 thru $E7, so as not to conflict with POKEY, and you need A0 thru A7 to address within those pages, but WTH is A14 for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slampam Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 (edited) Ha! So did you ever do this, Allan? http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=65846 CPUWIZ whacky setup. Not sure this counts as a use of the expansion port, but it's the closest I've seen to a 5200 expansion. http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=425502 I think I've seen this cuddle cart before. Brazilian style! http://www.tabajara-labs.com.br/videogames...ri/multicart_1/ multicart pic http://photos1.blogger.com/photoInclude/bl...00/DSCN4078.jpg http://www.tabajara-labs.com.br/multicarts/5200.htm Edited September 15, 2008 by slampam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundGammon Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 Just curious as I just now noticed it. I know that the 5200 was released in order to compete with the Colecovision... so did Atari try to make expansion modules as well? The 5200 I have is the 4-port version. Hi, Side note: The 5200 was built and designed to compete against the Intellivision, not the Colecovision. Atari wasn't even aware of the Colecovision until it showed up at a consumer electronics show. At least thats what the video game magazines stated back then. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slampam Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 Just a little retro ClausB project. http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=122750 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApolloBoy Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 No, the 2-ports also have the expansion port. If I remember correctly, the NES systems also had an expansion port, which I believe was never used either. I don't know if anyone has replied to this yet, but the Nintendo 8-Bit did in fact make use of that expansion bus on the bottom. I don't think officially by Nintendo, but when I went to prep school back in 1990-1992, a bunch of kids who were from Japan had 3.5" floppy drives that were hooked up to this port. This one kid had a bunch of games on floppy disk, and he would just stick them in, hold down the reset buttton, and when he released, the game would load from the 3.5 floppy. Pretty cool! That would be the Famicom Disk System you're thinking of. That actually connected through the Famicom's cartridge port, not its expansion port (which is completely different from the one on the NES). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 It would make larger-memory 8-bit conversions possible without having to do so much work like Bryan had to do with MULE. If you did a classic 8-bit conversion (or a couple) that would only work with it, it might help sell it. It/they would have to be a game like MULE that a lot of people like though. I know I would buy a couple of them. Allan Space Harrier would sell. One thing that would need to be done is set a standard for development, kinda like what Curt's done with the 7800 XM project. A "base" level if you will. Would the RAM expansion be set at 128k - like the XM - or should the project expand out to the largest amount of available expansion on the rest of the A8 line [such as the Ultimate 1MB project] in order to accommodate all potential A8 game titles transported over? But RAM expansion would just be the tip of the iceberg. Should there be SIO support so all A8 peripherals could potentially be used? Should there be a custom ROM mod to add more features to accommodate such upgrades? Should there be audio upgrades? Since there are dual and quad POKEY mods for A8, shouldn't there also be for modded 5200s? The list is endless, almost like the amount of space available in the 5200's case! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syntaxerror999 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 No, the 2-ports also have the expansion port. If I remember correctly, the NES systems also had an expansion port, which I believe was never used either. Not only that...but EVERY Nintendo system, save the Wii/Wii U had this...don't know about the top load NES though. For the NES it was for the never released disk drive, SNES and N64 I don't believe had any proposed products...least licenced ones...The only system to actually use it was the Gamecube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApolloBoy Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 SNES and N64 I don't believe had any proposed products...least licenced ones...The only system to actually use it was the Gamecube.The Super Famicom (the Japanese SNES) had the Satellaview and the N64 had the 64DD which both used the expansion port. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kensu Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Not only that...but EVERY Nintendo system, save the Wii/Wii U had this...don't know about the top load NES though. For the NES it was for the never released disk drive, SNES and N64 I don't believe had any proposed products...least licenced ones...The only system to actually use it was the Gamecube. Apparently the Famicom stereoscopic 3D shutter glasses plugged into the expansion port. Also the Famicom Disk System plugged into the cartridge slot, now the expansion port. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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