Packrat Video Games

[MegaManFan]

Since I believe there's a possibiity one or more of my comments about Packrat Video Games at PC5 may have been heard out of context or without the whole enchilada, I feel it's only appropriate to explain myself now that it's a few days after the con. Since this is about 2600 games and homebrews thereof and not about the event itself, I'm posting it here, but Albert Ed or CPUWIZ can move it if they feel it's OT.

 

To start with, I want to say I have nothing personal against Jarett or any of the PackratVG staff or salespeople. In fact, in terms of their friendly attitude and customer service at the show, it matched pretty much what I expected of PackratVG via knowing Jarett from AtariAge. Plus I can't ever forget that the man hooked me up with my own Combat 01 for only a buck back when I didn't have and couldn't find one, and that was a very nice gesture ($1 +shipped+ even). A man tends not to forget things like that when they make such a good impression.

 

That's why, some (including Jarett himself) may have overheard my surprise and shock that the Packrat booth seemed to be trying to intentionally undercut AA by selling some of the exact same homebrews, for exactly $2.05 less in most cases. Someone reported to me that the Packrat booth had been over taking pics of the AA booth before the show opened, and set all their prices based on AA's. Of course I never just want to take someone's word for it, especially if they're talking about somebody I know, so I had to see their booth for myself. Now Packrat VG did have some unique and interesting hacks and homebrews that weren't available at AA's booth, and I wholeheartedly applaud that and as such any price they'd sell such games for was not only a good one, but in some cases quite a steal. What I don't understand though is intentionally selling the same games that AA does, with different labels and lower prices, at a con AA does so much to support and help make thrive. Competitiveness in a fair and free marketplace is one thing, but here's where and why I felt upset:

 

1. Why would you befriend AA users (such as me) and be an active member of our boards, only to try and undercut us at a con?

2. Are all of the games being sold by PackratVG authorized by their respective hackers or homebrewers?

3. Do they get the same royalties as AA authors do, even though the games are sold at lower prices?

 

I don't want to make this another Hozer Video situation, but it just concerns me that if a pricing war breaks out between Packrat and AA, three groups of people are going to suffer: the programmers (who may find the diminishing returns on games are no longer worth it), the vendors (who can't afford a price war in terms of their production being feasible), and the gamers (no more carts to buy when price wars dry up the margins and carts are no longer made). So Jarett, I address this point specifically to you - if you heard me discussing Packrat vs. AA and questioning whether such head to head competition is a good thing (specifically when I was talking to Xot) try to understand these points are where I'm coming from. While in principle I think competition is a good thing, and I didn't think it was so bad when it was all just online sales, I just can't help but feel queasy knowing how much effort Albert and all of the AA staff and members put into making such a great presentation at PC5 only to get shortchanged by a little too MUCH competitiveness at the wrong place, wrong time.

 

I apologize if this causes any problems, but I had to get it off my chest and to also set the record straight how I felt before somebody else posted about it and took any of my comments out of context. I promise this is my first and last word on the subject.

[Gateway]

Since I believe there's a possibiity one or more of my comments about Packrat Video Games at PC5 may have been heard out of context or without the whole enchilada, I feel it's only appropriate to explain myself now that it's a few days after the con.  Since this is about 2600 games and homebrews thereof and not about the event itself, I'm posting it here, but Albert Ed or CPUWIZ can move it if they feel it's OT.

 

To start with, I want to say I have nothing personal against Jarett or any of the PackratVG staff or salespeople.  In fact, in terms of their friendly attitude and customer service at the show, it matched pretty much what I expected of PackratVG via knowing Jarett from AtariAge.  Plus I can't ever forget that the man hooked me up with my own Combat 01 for only a buck back when I didn't have and couldn't find one, and that was a very nice gesture ($1 +shipped+ even).  A man tends not to forget things like that when they make such a good impression.

 

That's why, some (including Jarett himself) may have overheard my surprise and shock that the Packrat booth seemed to be trying to intentionally undercut AA by selling some of the exact same homebrews, for exactly $2.05 less in most cases.  Someone reported to me that the Packrat booth had been over taking pics of the AA booth before the show opened, and set all their prices based on AA's.

 

This must be a nasty rumor that was being passed around! The entire "staff" of Packrat Video Games for PC5 consisted of: myself, Jarett, his parents and two sisters= 6 people.

 

Jarett was hard at work preparing the Packrat tables when I arrived with my luggage around 4PM Friday, after a long 4 hour flight and shuttle ride to the hotel, all the way from Salt Lake City. Soon after this, I met Xot in person for the first time and he presented me with the Globetrotter posters he had made for me. The rest of Jarett's family arrived back to the convention center a few minutes later after finalizing our hotel arrangements and buying some supplies we needed for the booth. Jarett and family had driven in from New York earlier that day after flying in from SLC Thursday night and staying the night in NYC.

 

The only times I, myself was near the AA tables was when I went to meet and chat with Al and Chickybaby for the first time. I showed them the posters Xot had made. None of AA's prices or games had been set out yet.

After that, I accompanied Jarett and family out on the town to buy some more supplies, and to go eat dinner. We spent the rest of the evening back at the hotel rooms assembling Pressure Gauge boxes and keychains.

 

The only other time I returned to the convention was to retrieve my pre-ordered copy of Frog Pond from Cassidy. There was no time to take pics or anything of the sort! We were all too busy and excited about our first trip to Philly to stage anything you have suggested!

 

 

Of course I never just want to take someone's word for it, especially if they're talking about somebody I know, so I had to see their booth for myself.  Now Packrat VG did have some unique and interesting hacks and homebrews that weren't available at AA's booth, and I wholeheartedly applaud that and as such any price they'd sell such games for was not only a good one, but in some cases quite a steal.  What I don't understand though is intentionally selling the same games that AA does, with different labels and lower prices, at a con AA does so much to support and help make thrive.  Competitiveness in a fair and free marketplace is one thing, but here's where and why I felt upset:

 

1. Why would you befriend AA users (such as me) and be an active  

member of our boards, only to try and undercut us at a con?

 

First of all, Jarett has posted many times in these forums about projects he's been working on to gauge the opinions of this community. One of the first of these was many months ago, when he asked the public what they thought about Packrat offering Homebrews and Hacks, and a bit of competition to AA's store. When there were no adamant objections to this, he felt safe to proceed.

 

While it is true and has been a benefit to have strong support from AtariAge to make PhillyClassic a success, the PC5 organizers invited Packrat to be a part of this year's event, and were very gracious to us, but made sure to show no favoritism to any one vendor over another. This is how it should be.

 

2. Are all of the games being sold by PackratVG authorized by their respective hackers or homebrewers?

I am puzzled that you even ask this. Yes. Jarett has taken great pains to gain permission and even double-check from time to time with the various game authors to ensure that every game being sold by Packrat is authorized by all people involved, including the artists of the labels. Some of the authors choose to be exclusive to AA and Jarett has respected that. He is very organized regarding this.

3. Do they get the same royalties as AA authors do, even though the games are sold at lower prices?

I don't know specifics, but the price cuts affect the production and materials cost first. Plus, a few of the authors requested a free copy of their game, and Jarett has obliged. Also, at this time, the clear cases, for example, still cost more to produce than the standard black case homebrew, and that is reflected in the purchase price.

 

And I assure you, Packrat is not out to sabotage AtariAge or anything of the sort. AA currently has, probably, twice as many homebrews and hacks available or soon to be available, than Packrat does at this time. AA's booth at Philly was arguably the largest at the show, and had the nicest posters, etc.

 

I don't want to make this another Hozer Video situation, but it just concerns me that if a pricing war breaks out between Packrat and AA, three groups of people are going to suffer: the programmers (who may find the diminishing returns on games are no longer worth it), the vendors (who can't afford a price war in terms of their production being feasible), and the gamers (no more carts to buy when price wars dry up the margins and carts are no longer made).  So Jarett, I address this point specifically to you - if you heard me discussing Packrat vs. AA and questioning whether such head to head competition is a good thing (specifically when I was talking to Xot) try to understand these points are where I'm coming from.

I apologize if this causes any problems, but I had to get it off my chest and to also set the record straight how I felt before somebody else posted about it and took any of my comments out of context.  I promise this is my first and last word on the subject.

 

I am an Atari collector. I have bought items( and will in the future ) from: AtariAge, CPUWIZ, Cassidy, Packrat Video Games, and many of the friendly people who frequent these boards. I believe competition can bring progress, and better products made available to the classic gaming community. This will encourage the programmers and hardware developers out there to add that extra detail to their releases so that we can all enjoy the continuing potential of a 25+ year old game console system. Some of the best games for our favorite systems would not have been so if not for Coleco, Intellivision, IBM, Apple, etc. Even then, it could be argued that Atari still ended up crashing due to its own weight.

 

I know how you feel regarding spending a lot of time and energy preparing product for the show. I, myself, cut out and assembled close to 100 Packrat keychains, and also brought with me 50 Globetrotter T-shirts that took me ( and Xot ) a lot of time to design, arrange a local printer, and transport them to the show.

 

Jarett and I folded and assembled hundreds of game manuals. Being the hardware expert, Jarett built over a hundred homebrews by himself! Plus he assembled all of the Pressure Gauge boxes for the show! I saw Jarett sit down, maybe TWICE, during the whole weekend at Philly!

 

My whole idea behind the concept of Globetrotter was to contribute to strengthening the classic gaming community's unity in some way. I tried to continue this at Philly by having Trotter visit and take photos at several of the different vendor tables( I hope to post these soon ). I am a member of the AtariAge community( as Jarett is ), and hope to continue with the budding friendships I've made with many of you here. It was exciting to me to meet many of you in person for the first time! Trotter also feels a part of this fan base, even if his area at PC5 was with the "competition".

 

While in principle I think competition is a good thing, and I didn't think it was so bad when it was all just online sales, I just can't help but feel queasy knowing how much effort Albert and all of the AA staff and members put into making such a great presentation at PC5 only to get shortchanged by a little too MUCH competitiveness at the wrong place, wrong time.

 

You didn't appear to look very queasy after purchasing a copy of Battlezone TC from the Packrat tables.

 

In conclusion: Jarett is one of the most honest and professional persons I know. Quality is very important to him, not just in products, but in business practices. He is also very generous. When I wanted to get Globetrotter going again, I chose Packrat for two reasons:

 

1. Geographically, we live close to each other and it was easier to correspond and get Trotter put together.

 

2. Albert was swamped with many other projects at the time, and I wanted Trotter to start his journey as soon as could be arranged.

 

Packrat also was willing to sponsor the project and provide some bandwidth on the website to track Trotter's progress. Jarett went beyond the call of duty to make sure the cart(s) and materials looked professional and the way I asked them to look.

 

Albert has also shown his professionalism in the games I've ordered from AA. I consider both Albert and Jarett men of high integrity.

 

I hope you, MMF, will be able to realize this too.

 

Weston

[Thomas Jentzsch]

That's why, some (including Jarett himself) may have overheard my surprise and shock that the Packrat booth seemed to be trying to intentionally undercut AA by selling some of the exact same homebrews, for exactly $2.05 less in most cases.  

So where they lowering the prices compared to their online store? Or did they offer different variations?

 

E.g. Jammed costs from $14.95 (instruction sheet only) to $17.95 (full color manual) there (plus shipping) vs. $18 at AA.

 

2. Are all of the games being sold by PackratVG authorized by their respective hackers or homebrewers?

I can only talk about Jammed and Battlezone TC, both are 100% authorized.

 

3. Do they get the same royalties as AA authors do, even though the games are sold at lower prices?

Yup!

 

I don't want to make this another Hozer Video situation, but it just concerns me that if a pricing war breaks out between Packrat and AA, three groups of people are going to suffer: the programmers (who may find the diminishing returns on games are no longer worth it), the vendors (who can't afford a price war in terms of their production being feasible), and the gamers (no more carts to buy when price wars dry up the margins and carts are no longer made).

I don't know what exactly happened at the show and why (if!) it happened. I wouldn't like to see a "pricing war" too, but IMO some honest competition isn't bad (as long as it stays fair).

 

I also don't understand why they would have to check AA's prices at the show, they are all available online (at least for those few quite indentical products). Unless AA had lowered the prices for the show, which IMO wouldn't be a bad thing at all. And if Packrat had just reacted to that, this wouldn't be bad too. And then AA already had lowered the prices for a few games recently (maybe reacting to PVG's lower prices). So a bit of competition had already been there.

 

BTW: I have had some very negative experiences with exclusive deals in the past, so have become very careful with that.

 

While in principle I think competition is a good thing, and I didn't think it was so bad when it was all just online sales, I just can't help but feel queasy knowing how much effort Albert and all of the AA staff and members put into making such a great presentation at PC5 only to get shortchanged by a little too MUCH competitiveness at the wrong place, wrong time.

True, but "shortchanging" only works if the customers help there. So if you feel someone plays foul, than just don't buy from him.

 

I apologize if this causes any problems, but I had to get it off my chest and to also set the record straight how I felt before somebody else posted about it and took any of my comments out of context.  I promise this is my first and last word on the subject.

No reason for that, I haven't heard about this before and am therefore thankful for any information.

[StanJr]

I have always had good dealings with Packrat in the past and they were super nice at the show. They produce a high quality product and do it in a professional manner. They have some things that AA does not and AA has some things that they do not. Prices are comparable and a two or three dollar difference doesn't really make that big of a deal to be, a real price cut would be like $10. I don't really see a price war.

 

And you can look at it this way, releasing the same game with different labels and even carts just means MORE label variations to collect. Get the AA Skeleton + and then go get the Packrat Skeleton +.

 

As long as they are both releasing high quality products and not pulling anything shady, there is no reason Packrat and AA can't peacefully coexist and even work together to strengthen the community. I don't think either one should be threatened by the other.

[neotokeo2001]

Are all of the games being sold by PackratVG authorized by their respective hackers or homebrewers?

 

Packrat can offer any hack that I do, and they have always contacted me in advance to make sure of each one and they have gone out of their way to produce new labels for each one.

 

Do they get the same royalties as AA authors do, even though the games are sold at lower prices?

 

I don't know, AtariAge does not offer any of my hacks. If someone else wanted to offer one of my hacks, then I would expect the same that Packrat does.

 

 

I really don't understand this topic. I have bought games from Atariage as well as Packrat and they both do an excellent job. I will continue to buy any game that looks cool in the future regardless of who offers it.

 

Pricing is a touchy subject. Competition is not a bad thing, and a dollar here or there is no big deal. If there is a problem between the two companies (which I doubt) then that is for them to work out directly.

[Rick Weis]

i hope i'm not the only one who is getting sick from all this! i'm getting VERY tired from all this BS. (YES, BS!!) and i wish everyone would grow up!!

 

i'm a HUGE supporter of AA and Packrat video (which jarett is now a member of the NWCGE staff! and i fully welcome him abord!!)

 

with the exception of chad schell, Jarett is one of the most Honest persons i have ever known.

i wish i was more like him!...*ponder* i take that back, on second thought i could never be that honest!

 

can't we all just get along??

 

Rick

[PackratVG]

Thanks to everyone for your support and for making PC5 such a great show for us. It was great to finally meet many of you. I hope that I can adequetaly respond to MMF's questions.

 

1. Why would you befriend AA users (such as me) and be an active member of our boards, only to try and undercut us at a con?  

 

All of the games that we sell in common with AA were sold at the show for the exact same price as our online prices. We did not cut any of our prices, nor were there any gimmics. In fact, I was shocked when I heard that AA had dropped their prices to $15 for several of the games that we sell in common. We sold the same games for $17.95. I'm not sure if this price change was made before the show, or in reaction to something at the show, but either way, that's Al's perogitave. The one game that I know we priced lower was Venture II. AA had it priced at $15 (the online price is $13). We sell it for $12.95 (online and at the show). We used to sell it for $13.95, but matched the AA price drop from about a month ago.

 

Are all of the games being sold by PackratVG authorized by their respective hackers or homebrewers?

 

We absolutely have permission from all of our homebrew and hack authors to produce their games. In fact, when we decided to begin offering clear case games, I contacted all of our authors for permission to offer their game this way as well. I've been very careful to respect authors' decisions, just ask the many that have turned us down .

 

Do they get the same royalties as AA authors do, even though the games are sold at lower prices?

 

Yes, we pay the standard royalty of $5 to all homebrew authors. Occasionally these royalties will be a little more or a little less than standard royalties, but this is always the decision of the author.

 

Regarding the question of my staff (family) photographing and spying on the AA booth, there is a perfectly good explanation. We've attended several shows and always come back with photos of just our booth. This time I asked my little sister (16 yrs old, oblivious) to take photos of the entire convention so that I could post a good re-cap after the show. This was after the show began, not before. She went on her way and came back with about 30 photos of all of the booths. I didn't see these photos until Sunday night. The three photos of the AA booth that my sister took suprised me when I saw the show prices. I really don't want to start a price war. A price war would only hurt the homebrew scene in general. I never went over to the AA booth, just to make sure that there were no problems. We heard several rumors at the show, including spying from the AA booth on us, but who cares? There's nothing wrong with looking at the competition's prices. This is just a part of business.

 

In addition, check out the photos of our booth. The displays behind our homebrews had all of our prices clearly posted. These signs were printed before the show and not altered at the show.

 

To be honest, we're moving towards offering homebrews and hacks that AA doesn't offer. This would be ideal for everyone involved. When we first started making homebrews over a year ago, I contacted just about every homebrew author out there. Six authors replied showing interest, all of which had their games offered on AA. We didn't have much choice but to offer these games and make an effort to distinguish them from the AA offerings.

 

I want everyone to know that there was no spying going on, nor any price cuts at our booth. In fact, I wish that we could have known about AA's lower prices, we probably would have offered a discount on some of our games. Oh well. If anyone is wondering whether or not competition is good, just look at the games that we offer that AA doesn't, as well as some of the lower prices on both sides of the line. It's competition that drives innovation (our clear cart releases) and makes it a buyers market. Competition keeps everyone on their toes. Isn't everyone always complaining about Microsoft and their monopoly?

 

I'll be more than happy to reply to anyone's questions or concerns, either here or via PM. I know that Packrat and AA can peacefully co-exist. No one should have to take sides. This sort of a discussion was bound to happen some time, so I'm glad that it's all out in the open now.

 

Sincerely,

Jarett Waite

Owner

Packrat Video Games

www.packratvg.com

 

P.S. All of the games that we released for the first time at PC5 will soon be available to purchase on our website!

[Thomas Jentzsch]

can't we all just get along??

[neotokeo2001]

can't we all just get along??

 

[Gregory DG]

Heh, where's Inky when you need him to say:

 

Shiny, happy, people holding hands!    

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

 

I've been very careful to respect authors' decisions, just ask the many that have turned us down .

 

I can confirm this. I rejected your offer to publish my games two times, in both cases for reasons that are neither your fault nor the fault of your service.

 

Basically after Hozer went down, Atari Age simply were the first I talked with and later I decided to stick with them, because I liked how they handled things for me.

 

But even if we didn't work together yet, I think it's very good to have you around.

 

Greetings,

Manuel

[bjk7382]

I bougt games from both the AtariAge and Packrat booths and think having more than one option it great. Especially when they try to both have different titles. Who cares if a few titles are the same, they still have the neat clear cases and competition is a good thing

[Stingray]

I'm a little confused as to how checking out a booth at a public convention can be considered spying.

 

-S

[MegaManFan]

You didn't appear to look very queasy after purchasing a copy of Battlezone TC from the Packrat tables.  

 

Just to re-iterate:

 

1. I don't have a problem with any of the ORIGINAL titles and hacks sold at the Packrat table.

2. I don't have anything against you or Jarett personally, and would buy your ORIGINAL titles any time.

 

I think most of my concerns have been addressed to my satisfaction, so there's no reason for this thread to cause dissension. As long as Packrat is on the up and up about securing rights and paying royalties at the same rate AA does, I know the authors of the games aren't being shortchanged just to offer a better price than AA does. For my own personal reasons though, if both stores offer the same title, I'm still going to purchase it from AA even if I have to pay a few dollars more.

[EricBall]

Since Skeleton+ has been mentioned, I will add my own C$0.03...

 

First, both AA and PackRatVG are authorized Skeleton+ publishers and the royalty I receive is the standard $5/cart which was established back in the Hozer days.

 

However, as has been pointed out, the labels and manual etc. are unique. PackRatVG also has clear carts available. I fully support this way of adding value and being distinctive.

 

I do think is is unfortunate and short-sighted for AA and PackRatVG to compete on price.

[Curt Vendel]

I see things at AA and Packrat that are unique and different for each retailer and while I do see some overlap, I think the uniqueness of specific items are each ones strong selling point. Competitiveness is actually a VERY good thing, but even MORE so if the two or more parties also see what each other is doing and either directly or indirectly respect one another and try to give themselves a niche and a selection that perhaps the other isn't already addressing and selling. (a MUST DO factor is communication with each other so no one feels spited if a similar or same product is released as another retailer is preparing for a release. This mutual communication and assistance can go a long way for actually creating a network of retailers who all profit and succeed.)

 

Its a small pond that classic game retailers swim in and everyone needs to work with one another, get along and actually help one another to both their mutual benefits.

 

IMHO

 

 

 

Curt

[CincYnoTi]

1. Why would you befriend AA users (such as me) and be an active member of our boards, only to try and undercut us at a con?

 

When I first read this, it gave the impression that MMF is now a part owner or partner of the AA store. Otherwise, how is MMF being undercut? Who here at AA other than the Al's are part of the AA business?

 

I promise this is my first and last word on the subject.

 

Times this promise broken so far: 1

[GrizzLee]

i'm a HUGE supporter of AA and Packrat video (which jarett is now a member of the NWCGE staff! and i fully welcome him abord!!)  

 

Careful there Rick. After reading his bio on the NWCGE website.... can anybody in Classic Videogames REALLY trust Jarett

http://nwcge.org/nwcge_staff.html

 

All kidding aside....

Seriously, I like both Jarett and Albert. I have been treated very well by both of these folks. I'd like nothing more than to see this thread die immediately before anyone's feelings get hurt.

Both parties work very hard and are an ASSET to the classic gaming community.

 

 

If you really want to vent your frustrations, attend the NWCGE expo in May. Channel your engergies into practicing for the Atari World Championships event. Folks from Microsoft will be there as well... perhaps you can talk to them about spying, price gouging, corporate monopolies and such... I'm sure they'll listen whilst you play away on their latest games on the Xbox :wink:

 

Regards,

-Lee

 

Register early for NWCGE and qualify for discount on this limited edition cart.

[MegaManFan]

Times this promise broken so far: 1

 

Perhaps, but I wanted to at least offer my assurances that I wasn't harboring any ill will nor was I encouraging a boycott of Packrat - I think it was appropriate for me to break my silence to say that.

 

And no, I'm in no way shape or form "owning" any part of AA's operations or store. I'm just very loyal. Loyal to a fault perhaps, which was why I wanted to explain my comments to any who misheard them.

[neotokeo2001]

 

 

Register early for NWCGE and qualify for discount on this limited edition cart.

 

[Gateway]

Just to re-iterate:

 

1. I don't have a problem with any of the ORIGINAL titles and hacks sold at the Packrat table.

2. I don't have anything against you or Jarett personally, and would buy your ORIGINAL titles any time.

 

... I'm still going to purchase it from AA even if I have to pay a few dollars more.

 

No harm done, as far as I'm concerned. And you certainly have the right to purchase games from whomever you choose.

 

And my comment about Battlezone TC was, perhaps, a bit too soon. It is my understanding that Thomas likes to keep his games non- exclusive, and so his Battlezone TC hack is likely to become available at AtariAge at some point in the near future.

 

@ Lee: now you've got me drooling for the LE cart!

[Thomas Jentzsch]

It is my understanding that Thomas likes to keep his games non- exclusive, and so his Battlezone TC hack is likely to become available at AtariAge at some point in the near future.

Yup, after a short initial run time, if AtariAge wants to, I won't stop them.

[NE146]

I think Packrat and AA should definitely stop all this feuding and name calling. We all need to get along and stop all this backstabbing and infighting!

 

However, if what Megamanfan is saying is true, and Packratvideogames are indeed out to rip us off and that we should boycott them... I have to say that sounds a little extreme to me. But still, scamming in any form should not be tolerated!! What to do? I guess in the end however, if Al and Jarett really want to fight because Al thinks that Packrat is undercutting them. I say we let them.. *sigh*..maybe at the CGE. But it should be limited to FISTS only.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CincYnoTi]

I think Packrat and AA should definitely stop all this feuding and name calling. We all need to get along and stop all this backstabbing and infighting!  

 

However, if what Megamanfan is saying is true, and Packratvideogames are indeed out to rip us off and that we should boycott them... I have to say that sounds a little extreme to me. But still, scamming in any form should not be tolerated!!    

 

Where have Packrat and AA been feuding? In this forum, AA (meaning the official representitives, Alex and Albert) has not said anything. And everything Packrat said was civil and reasonable. So far, the name calling is being done by bystanders.

[Rick Weis]

I think Packrat and AA should definitely stop all this feuding and name calling. We all need to get along and stop all this backstabbing and infighting!

 

However, if what Megamanfan is saying is true, and Packratvideogames are indeed out to rip us off and that we should boycott them... I have to say that sounds a little extreme to me. But still, scamming in any form should not be tolerated!!    What to do?    I guess in the end however, if Al and Jarett really want to fight because Al thinks that Packrat is undercutting them. I say we let them.. *sigh*..maybe at the CGE. But it should be limited to FISTS only.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and we can make mega $$$$ off this by selling to the highest bidding TV network. (they will put anything on tv now a days)

 

(i still won't watch it thou )

 

Rick