Homebrews and new releases (Yeah, I know, I know...)

[JagChris]

Hi CrazyChris !

 

No actually not. Math sort of my weak point, but as you see, you don't necessarily need to be a math wizard to develop video games. Actually I remember hearing/reading the exact same thing about Jeff Minter at some point.    

 

 

Regards, Lars.

 

OK then, how far along in math did you get? Trig? Linear Algebra? Physics? Nosy people wanna know.

[justclaws]

OK then, how far along in math did you get? Trig? Linear Algebra? Physics? Nosy people wanna know.  

Actually in UK (and continental Europe) we don't have a system like

you in the USA. We do all sorts of methematics/maths (we don't call

it "math" even in UK!) continously, from simple to advanced stages.

Therefore, it's not meaningful in any case to ask that kind of question!

 

Cheers,

JustClaws.

[agradeneu]

I think you hit the nail on the head. Other than the influx of new games from Telegames, Songbird, and Scatologic there were no more releases afterward. Just smaller demos and small games. Nothing on the scope of fully realized games.  

 

Actually it was only Battlesphere which was completely programmed and released by a group of homebrew developers - all others releases were *ressurections* of already existing *dustbin* programs at least in an advanced beta stage. Recently this dustbin stuff has gone worse - I really regretted to have bought Space War 2000, because there isn't much game here and it only gives you a big bang at your money pocket. American Hero was pathetic too - who needs this trash? (stupid title anyway)

But this shows exactly the problem - Jag development lacks seriously some substance - most releases even didn't involved one bit of real development (=programming) actually.

As the ground was and is extremely thin, its no wonder that releases drain out quickly if dustbins gone empty.

You can't put life into the Jag if all you can think of is trying to spend your life on deads. (If you have a german dictionary, look up "Leichenfledderei")

[Starcat]

Hi agradeneu !

 

Actually Ocean Depths was completely developed and released by myself.

Painter and Protector also were developed/finished by existing Jag developers.

So before you claim everybody but Scatologic would just release stuff without doing any work, you should really get your facts straight.

And the titles I mentioned were just the released titles. I can ensure you, there are several other very promising titles in development.

 

Regards, Lars.

[agradeneu]

No, I was very correct.

BS is the only game which was developed from scratch and released as a complete game - I didn't count in demos, because your not finished yet with your game I guess.

Protector was complete in big parts, but it was a good release, I agree.

But here the story ends. The other releases were just pick ups.

BTW I was referring to *most*, not all releases.

[Atari_Owl]

No, I was very correct.  

BS is the only game which was developed from scratch and released as a complete game - I didn't count in demos, because your not finished yet with your game I guess.

Protector was  complete in big parts, but it was a good release, I agree.

But here the story ends. The other releases were just pick ups.

 

No, you were very incorrect.

Painter is a perfect example and not a pick up.

 

BTW I was referring to *most*, not all releases.

 

Well lets just take a look back shall we...

 

- all others releases were *ressurections* of already existing *dustbin* programs

 

You clearly stated ALL, in what seems to me, a fairly confrontational manner.

[Paolo]

... and then you have to count that the mastermind-like game that Starcat has in Ocean Dephts is complete fron start to end (although it can be considered a mini-game)

 

Also, give the programmers a little time: one or two years is not that much if you consider this as a part time fatigue.

 

Regards

[Starcat]

Hi !

 

Paolo is right. Even though JagMind is just a mini game, it still is a game and no demo. And Ocean Depths itself isn't a demo either. Even though it's also no game. The only real demo is the Eerievale (tech) demo.

 

Yes, Atariowl is right as well about the development time.

Especially because for example in the case of Eerievale, the development time so far was really short and the progress was great.

Most professional adventure games needed 1-2 years development time, only for the design work.

So Eerievale is still very good in the schedule, considering the great progress it made in the last weeks/months.

I am sure that in one year or so there will be quite some more great releases... Some games seem to be pretty much complete already.

For example Mad Bodies looks quite complete, just to name one game.

 

Regards, Lars.

[agradeneu]

You clearly stated ALL, in what seems to me, a fairly confrontational manner

 

I'm not at law. So stop to throw false accusions at me.

I wasnt confrontal, I was just telling what reality looks like.

I didnt mean to bash all the pick up& release efforts, but its was not all good and its gone worse in opinion, if you take Space War, American Hero etc. in account.

This also refers to the numerous revision releases of BIWN.

Its only interesting for collectors and for curiosity, but nothing to play with more than 5 minutes. (I played BIWN and its close to zero gameplaywise.)

 

And please, name at least one more release besides Painter(which was, to be correct about that, for years floating at the internet as freeware), which were programmed from scratch and I obviously missed out. Please enlight me about that.

 

Overall I was not bashing Jag development, I just tried to give an answer on the question, why releases drained out recently. All the major releases were pick ups, and thats very correct. *Prove* me wrong.

[agradeneu]

Also, give the programmers a little time: one or two years is not that much if you consider this as a part time fatigue.  

 

 

 

Shall we elaborate on the subject by taking, say, the recent 4-5 years in account? It's really clear, that the feeding ground were existing source codes, not development.

However I realize, that the situation might be changed - there are some interesting projects in works, but I was discussing past and present and not the (near or far) future.

[Atari_Owl]

And please, name at least one more release besides Painter(which was, to be correct about that, for years floating at the internet as freeware), which were programmed from scratch and I obviously missed out. Please enlight me about that.

 

Overall I was not bashing Jag development, I just tried to give an answer on the question, why releases drained out recently. All the major releases were pick ups, and thats very correct. *Prove* me wrong.

 

Ocean Depths/JagMIND there you go, there's another.

Along with several demos, many of which are still being worked on.

 

Just because Gordon allowed a version of Painter to be available as freeware doesn't disqualify it from being considered a full release, once Gordon finished, tidied it up and relased it on CD. I just wish he'd also finish Slam Racer, though i realise this may be too much work.

 

Please lets also remember that BS was, well lets say, from the beginning of '94 approximately until 2000 before release (around 6 years) with 2 people working on it (plus a third on the music). Thats about 12 man years, a fine achievement to be sure, but with most current projects one man efforts, and with many developers fairly recent additions, it takes time, and is possibly a little early yet.

 

Finally, the majority of projects of which i am aware are NOT using old/rediscovered code, they are new projects in development.

 

Obviously they use sections from the libraries, workshops or other developers, but then that's true for every release on the jag.

[Atari_Owl]

I'm not at law. So stop to throw false accusions at me.  

I wasnt confrontal, I was just telling what reality looks like.

I didnt mean to bash all the pick up& release efforts, but its was not all good and its gone worse in opinion, if you take Space War, American Hero etc. in account.

 

This could possibly have been a use of language issue.

To me the language seemed unnecessarily harsh.

If this was not your intention then sorry, i may have misunnderstood your intention. I was merely stating, as i said, how it could appear harsh and, potentially (i said fairly in order to reduce the strength of the statement) confrontational.

[agradeneu]

This could possibly have been a use of language issue.  

To me the language seemed unnecessarily harsh.  

 

 

Yes, I wasnt aware of this. I think the problems lies in my use of the metaphor *dustbin*. It was meant as orphaned or abandoned source code, which usually ends up in dustbins, as nobody needs it anymore.

I used this as an inside joke, as one certain publisher joked about stumbling over lost source codes in Ataris dustbins.

It wasn't meant as offensive as one might got it.

So I have to take care of my use of words and its possible ambiguity.

[Atari_Owl]

This could possibly have been a use of language issue.  

To me the language seemed unnecessarily harsh.  

 

 

Yes, I wasnt aware of this. I think the problems lies in my use of the metaphor *dustbin*. It was meant as orphaned or abandoned source code, which usually ends up in dustbins, as nobody needs it anymore.

I used this as an inside joke, as one certain publisher joked about stumbling over lost source codes in Ataris dustbins.

It wasn't meant as offensive as one might got it.

So I have to take care of my use of words and its possible ambiguity.

 

Well i'm sorry that i misunderstood your intent, and i understand now what you mean concerning the dustbin. Yes i do believe some things were discovered in that way.

 

And i certainly meant no malice

 

All the best