Atari's Landfill Adventures, I now have the proof it's true.

[Jet-X]

No I think a better theory is they SAID they buried a bunch of carts, with no tangible proof...

 

In order to get the write-off, Atari would have had to thoroughly document the incident. Photos, inventory lists that were dumped, and a logical reason (i.e. "defective"). With that kind of a write off, the IRS isn't going to allow "good faith", they're going to want actual proof down to the last cartridge.

 

Now, all of that would have been in Atari's files. Where are those files now?

 

Also, whoever photographed the picture for the paper is bound to have tons of photos. No one goes out to something like that and snaps only a couple pictures.

[Bruce Tomlin]

Now, all of that would have been in Atari's files.  Where are those files now?

Probably in a landfill. A different landfill, and years later, but probably they ended up in a landfill.

[moycon]

Now, all of that would have been in Atari's files.  Where are those files now?

Probably in a landfill. A different landfill, and years later, but probably they ended up in a landfill.

 

Too bad, would have been nice to have seen what Atari wrote off in 1983. Oh well.

 

I did come across this guys web site.

 

http://www.jmargolin.com/vmail/Stat83.txt

 

Doesn't really help out at all, looks like he worked on the arcade games. But it's still pretty cool. Check out 3D COCKROACH WARS! LOL

 

Some of it really is facinating if you read through the various years. Talk of The Last Starfighter / Firefox / Star Wars... Things like digitaly putting the players face in the game. Very neat stuff.

 

If only all employees were as anal as this guy. It appears as though he's been saving and preserving memo's and status reports for years!! No mention of the dump though.

[moycon]

I went ahead and sent that Jed Margolin an email anyways.

Who knows.... the way he collects and saves data he might know something.

Long shot. But what the heck.

[Nukey Shay]

Now, all of that would have been in Atari's files.  Where are those files now?

Companies are obligated to hold said files for a given number of years (it's 7 in my corner). After that, they are trashed (or shredded, depending on how sensitive the documented info is). Also, this info probably wouldn't have been kept anyway when the company changed hands.

[Nukey Shay]

Because in the world of big business...write-offs aren't such a big deal

This apparently was.

 

How many security guards were hired when you guys dumped equipment?

 

How many reporters came to see Nukey toss a few 100 dumb terminals?

 

How many many camera's were around?

 

I can tell you...None.

 

No sir you'll have to do better than compare this to where you worked. This was news. You just tossed some trashy equipment.

Not trashy equipment...just stuff no longer carried by the company. The Honda generators and railroad knife gate valves were probably the most expensive stuff - that write-off was worth nearly 100 grand

And I destroyed them all right then and there...no need for security because there's no possibility of somebody walking off with the product. A bit different where you have truckloads of stuff going from point A to point B out in the open. Security was probably called in as it was observed that people were trying to raid the dump. In a write-off, even 1 would be too many.

 

 

Then consider they can get a dollar-for-dollar production cost write-off by reducing dead inventory. This isn't rocket science.

I'm not considering that. No-ones come forward and stated how much was supposedly written off the books for this or has come forward and said how much it would cost to bury a million carts. Seems to me they'd have been better off selling the lots over sea's if it came to that. Personally I doubt it ever did.

Then you have the cost of shipping, the cost of duty/customs, the cost of finding a vendor to sell them, the cost of maintaining a department to handle transactions and gripes, etc. etc. etc.

This product was worthless, and that would just cost more money that Atari was trying to avoid. This method is like a surgeon cutting away dead tissue...lose a little, save your life.

 

 

They'd still have the auditors to contend with...and Atari had plenty of unhappy investors that would have loved it if they were playing around with the books

Hmmmm Agree'd. Someone said that a law was passed to stop people from doing this? (Dunno if it true) If it is, yeah your right it would have made investors all the more unhappy if Atari pulled a fast one. Maybe the law was passed to prevent stuff like this from happening?

The law had to do with the landfill itself...dictating what should and shouldn't be allowed in the future. It's right there in the article. Their main concern was not to become the trash capitol of the world.

[Jet-X]

Now, all of that would have been in Atari's files.  Where are those files now?

Companies are obligated to hold said files for a given number of years (it's 7 in my corner). After that, they are trashed (or shredded, depending on how sensitive the documented info is). Also, this info probably wouldn't have been kept anyway when the company changed hands.

 

True - but companies, especially large public companies do not shred this kind of stuff.

 

I'll bet the information is out there somewhere, likely in someone's garage or some warehouse storage depot.

[Nukey Shay]

So that begs the question of how much did Atari write off per cart? Nukey Shay says dollar-for-dollar. Does that mean full retail? I recall new Atari carts being in the $20-$25 range, we'll say they were $20. $20 times 350,000 carts is a cool seven million bucks. Hey even if they only wrote off half retail we're talking $3.5 million. Even going by what a boxed E.T. is worth today (what, about a dollar?) we're still looking at a $350,000 write off for a $66,000 expense.

Not full retail (because Atari wasn't spending a full retail cost to make them). Production cost of finished goods only...and not including any other types of charges or commissions. This figure would be pretty low in comparison to retail cost...maybe just a couple of bucks per unit.

I said it wasn't such a big deal

 

Now the reason that Atari made the news (and I didn't with the Honda thing) is because Atari WAS news. They were the product leader back then...most consumer markets were totally overshadowed by the game craze (heck, even dog food companies wanted a piece of it). Not only that, but there was the dumping issue in general. If any company rolls in truckloads of trash to another city, you can bet there's at least going to be a few gripes about it from the ones who have to live there.

[Albert]

True - but companies, especially large public companies do not shred this kind of stuff.  

 

I'll bet the information is out there somewhere, likely in someone's garage or some warehouse storage depot.

 

Atari has changed hands several times, and given how old this information is (over 20 years), I think it's a pretty safe bet that any such records have long since been destroyed. I'm sure there's lots of Atari documentation in the hands of individual employees, but I'd also guess that most of the material they saved is engineering related, and probably on projects these people directly worked on. Software and hardware developers would not have had access to financial information or other records of this nature, and most companies probably do have policies on destruction of records after they are no longer legally required to keep them (unless it would be beneficial to keep them for some reason).

 

Atari probably generated massive amounts of paperwork, especially in the early 80s. It takes money and time to organize and store paperwork--I doubt there's some undiscovered storage space, warehouse, or garage where this paperwork is gathering dust. In all likelihood, any business-related paperwork that wasn't directly IP-related and not legally required to be kept was probably destroyed either before a handover of Atari to new owners, or by the new owners themselves. Companies buying Atari's assets are more interested in any physical assets (of which I doubt there's of much at this point) and more importantly, the Atari name and brand itself, as well as any trademarks and copyrights still under that umbrella.

 

..Al

[moycon]

Yes I agree with Nukey and Albert. The tax record are probably toast. Don't think it would have proved anything anyways. They probably wrote off the maximum they could every year anyways. If the information was readily available it would have been interesting to see what it was and if it was the same every year.

 

Then you have the cost of shipping, the cost of duty/customs, the cost of finding a vendor to sell them, the cost of maintaining a department to handle transactions and gripes, etc. etc. etc.  

This product was worthless, and that would just cost more money that Atari was trying to avoid. This method is like a surgeon cutting away dead tissue...lose a little, save your life.

 

Perhaps this would have been an issue, perhaps not. Here's an interesting tidbit:

 

"DECEMBER (1983)

 

n Atari, Inc.'s Raheen Industrial Estate plant in Ireland is completed and occupied. The 135,000 square foot facility is located on a sixteen-acre site with ample room for anticipated expansion. (A grant from the Industrial Development Authority helped finance the construction.) The plant provides material purchasing on a worldwide basis, distribution of all Atari products to international marketplaces, European headquarters for warranty repair and spares supplies for international markets."

 

Maybe the first order of the day was to start clearing out those pallets of crap Atari games we can't sell in the states?

[Joey Kay]

I'm not considering that. No-ones come forward and stated how much was supposedly written off the books for this or has come forward and said how much it would cost to bury a million carts. Seems to me they'd have been better off selling the lots over sea's if it came to that. Personally I doubt it ever did.

 

Keep in mind that in America, this would have been NTSC equipment and games being dumped. They couldn't be liquidated overseas.

 

Cheers!

 

Joey

[moycon]

http://www.high-techproductions.com/ntsc.html

[moycon]

Ooops :

 

http://www.high-techproductions.com/ntsc.htm

 

Sorry bout that.

 

(Damn non-existing edit button)

[moycon]

This also raises an interesting question.

Were PAL games manufactured overseas?

Or here in Amaerica and then shipped overseas?

Depending on the answer, There may have been PAL games in the warehouse as well.

[Spud]

Here is the latest tidbit from my video vault.

 

Edward showing me on a areal map how to get to the landfill.

 

http://members.aol.com/atarilandfill5/map_...to_landfill.mpg

[Stingray]

Spud's latest video has been added to the landfill page. I also did a transcript with still images.

 

-S

[moycon]

That Jed Margolin guy responded to my email promptly.

Not a whole lot of information other than, yes he had heard the landfill story, He then retold it, using the word "supposedly" a lot.

No he didn't have much information beyond the story.

He didn't really state an opinion on whether or not he thought it was true.

 

He did have an "interesting note:" of his own to add and that was that at the time the buzz was that the carts were actually dumped in the Sunnyvale landfill (right down the road from Atari Headquarters) and that a phony location was given out to keep people from looking for the carts.

 

That was about the only new information contained in the email.

[moycon]

Actually I take that back, he did mention Alamogordo, NM was the site of the first test of an atomic bomb, which took place on July 16, 1945, at a site called Trinity.

 

That's new also, but I suppose not relevant.

[Joey Kay]

Ooops :

 

http://www.high-techproductions.com/ntsc.htm

 

Sorry bout that.

 

(Damn non-existing edit button)

 

Hmmm!

 

I had no idea... Thanks for that!

 

Cheers!

 

Joey

[mos6507]

No I think a better theory is they SAID they buried a bunch of carts, with no tangible proof...

 

In order to get the write-off, Atari would have had to thoroughly document the incident. Photos, inventory lists that were dumped, and a logical reason (i.e. "defective"). With that kind of a write off, the IRS isn't going to allow "good faith", they're going to want actual proof down to the last cartridge.

 

Now, all of that would have been in Atari's files. Where are those files now?

 

Also, whoever photographed the picture for the paper is bound to have tons of photos. No one goes out to something like that and snaps only a couple pictures.

 

I'm sure there is documentation.

 

But my opinion is that the IRS would be content that the carts were rendered unusable by virtue of 4 feet plus of solid concrete on top of them. I don't think the IRS has the resources to pile through millions of closeup photos that document every single cartridge as having been crushed.

 

While I'm sure they made an effort to destroy all of them, I think the practical reality is that in order to avoid spending forever in the pit and spending a fortune on the labor, a certain percentage of carts wound up getting buried intact and recoverable.

[mos6507]

Now, all of that would have been in Atari's files.  Where are those files now?

Companies are obligated to hold said files for a given number of years (it's 7 in my corner). After that, they are trashed (or shredded, depending on how sensitive the documented info is). Also, this info probably wouldn't have been kept anyway when the company changed hands.

 

Considering that the old interoffice mail held on their VAX mainframe has shown up, and considering that a lot of internal memos on paper have shown up via Best Electronics or other sources, I think there is still a possibility some of this exists somewhere.

 

Maybe not direct evidence, but at least a memo that refers to the incident.

[mos6507]

I think someone should schedule a game convention in that area and under that pretext, use the fact that we're all going to be there to get some of the attendees to fan out and investigate.

 

The publicity involved in hosting the convention there would help pull people out of the woodworks, and maybe even lead to official permission for a contingent to visit the landfill and gather the physical evidence.

 

Maybe have HSW be a guest so he can either laugh in our faces or eat crow.

[Stingray]

A listing was found for them two hours east of Alamogordo somewhere in Texas. If e-mail fails, that same dude was going to snail mail them to see if it was the same person.

 

Sorry for the delay, my laptop's hard drive melted down a couple days ago and I just set up an alternate machine this morning. The promised email will be sent when I get home tonight. If I hear back, I'll post to this thread straight away. If I don't, I'll unleash a snail mail volley in the general direction of Texas.

 

Have you heard anything yet? I started to send a snail mail letter to this person, but I thought I'd check with you first to see if you already did that.

 

-S

[Stingray]

Was just fooling around with google maps. Using the info that I got from that last video that Spud posted, I was able to locate the landfill area very easily. Here's a picture of the landfill pretty well centered. For reference, the grey circular shape toward the top right is the natural gas storage facility that was pointed out on the video. Near the bottom left you can see what surely must be trails made by the ATV & dirt bike riders that the gentlaman in the video referred to.

 

 

-S

[moycon]

I think since I'm a premium google member I can use the advance tools set. I was able to zoom in much closer Stingray. The results are indeed....Compelling.