Atari's Landfill Adventures, I now have the proof it's true.

[G.Whiz]

I think that unless someone is going to shell out big bucks for a newspaper ad, you should place something in the Classifieds sections. You can do this at:

 

http://alamogordo.kaango.com/feChoosePostAd

 

I wouldn't worry about the background, etc., just something to catch the attention of anyone who knows anything. Keep it short and sweet:

 

LOST: millions of Atari cartridges! If you know anything about the '80s burial of ET and other Atari carts, please e-mail....

 

With the e-mail address, that's 22 words. Post it under "Lost and Found" or "Misc."

 

The "AtariAge" address will let people know this is from a fan website. All the details about being buried at the dump, etc. don't need to be delved into since anyone who knows anything knows they are at the dump. Pictures as well -- either someone is going to send a pic, or say that they have a pic, if they are willing to share it in the first place.

 

If this doesn't work, then start thinking about a big ad.

 

My two cents...

 

~G

[jerrykurtz]

I think that unless someone is going to shell out big bucks for a newspaper ad, you should place something in the Classifieds sections. You can do this at:

 

http://alamogordo.kaango.com/feChoosePostAd

 

I wouldn't worry about the background, etc., just something to catch the attention of anyone who knows anything. Keep it short and sweet:

 

LOST: millions of Atari cartridges! If you know anything about the '80s burial of ET and other Atari carts, please e-mail....

 

With the e-mail address, that's 22 words. Post it under "Lost and Found" or "Misc."

 

The "AtariAge" address will let people know this is from a fan website. All the details about being buried at the dump, etc. don't need to be delved into since anyone who knows anything knows they are at the dump. Pictures as well -- either someone is going to send a pic, or say that they have a pic, if they are willing to share it in the first place.

 

If this doesn't work, then start thinking about a big ad.

 

My two cents...

 

~G

 

I like this idea the most. The wording catches your attention.

[rbudrick]

A classified ad may catch your attention, but it also catches way less attention than an article. If you can convince the paper to write an article, it'd be waaay better. They probably would if you just called and talked to a writer or editor. Most newspapers are pretty open to new story ideas, especially local legend stuff. Plus, it doesn't cost a thing. I think it makes far more sense to try this first, and if it doesn't work, go the other route. You just have to make it really compelling for them. Maybe bullet point a list of controversies surrounding the legend and email it to them. Hell, just show them this thread. You may not even have to do that...they might just like the story. Even better...the newspaper writer will get the documents from the town in doing the research!!!

 

-Rob

Edited September 11, 2006 by rbudrick

[G.Whiz]

A classified ad may catch your attention, but it also catches way less attention than an article. If you can convince the paper to write an article, it'd be waaay better. They probably would if you just called and talked to a writer or editor. Most newspapers are pretty open to new story ideas, especially local legend stuff. Plus, it doesn't cost a thing. I think it makes far more sense to try this first, and if it doesn't work, go the other route. You just have to make it really compelling for them. Maybe bullet point a list of controversies surrounding the legend and email it to them. Hell, just show them this thread. You may not even have to do that...they might just like the story. Even better...the newspaper writer will get the documents from the town in doing the research!!!

 

-Rob

I agree, an article would be much, much better. I'm working on the assumption here that the newspaper is not interested in doing the story -- I believe they have already been contacted and are likely well-aware of the myth. If they haven't done an exposé yet, I don't think they are likely to do one simply because a group of Atari fans ask them to. (But I suppose you never know until you try...)

 

However, the newspaper might be a good place to look for leads, especially if there are people still there who were around 20-25 years ago...

 

~G

[Rik]

Man,ive read interviews by the guy that programmed ET ,and he said no carts were buried at all,then im reading theres's proof there were.Im giving it a 30-70% chance in favour of its NOT true!

Edited September 12, 2006 by Rik

[A.J. Franzman]

Mr. Warshaw didn't work for Atari in El Paso or Alamogordo. Also, as a programmer, why should we expect him to know what was going on with regard to production, warehousing, distribution, excess inventory (and disposal thereof), tax breaks, and other corporate details unrelated to his specific job? I'm not at all convinced that just because none of the programmers claim to know anything about it, that it didn't happen. It's even possible that events of this nature would have been purposely kept secret from them, and anyone else in the company without a "need to know". Of course, those with the "need to know" would have been required to keep it secret.

 

In fact, if indeed HSW actually said that "it didn't happen", I would find that highly suspect in itself. Again, it goes to "need to know" -- how would he know that something he wouldn't be expected to know in the first place, did not happen?

Edited September 12, 2006 by A.J. Franzman

[pocketmego]

Mr. Warshaw didn't work for Atari in El Paso or Alamogordo. Also, as a programmer, why should we expect him to know what was going on with regard to production, warehousing, distribution, excess inventory (and disposal thereof), tax breaks, and other corporate details unrelated to his specific job? I'm not at all convinced that just because none of the programmers claim to know anything about it, that it didn't happen. It's even possible that events of this nature would have been purposely kept secret from them, and anyone else in the company without a "need to know". Of course, those with the "need to know" would have been required to keep it secret.

 

In fact, if indeed HSW actually said that "it didn't happen", I would find that highly suspect in itself. Again, it goes to "need to know" -- how would he know that something he wouldn't be expected to know in the first place, did not happen?

 

 

So what your saying is...

 

If you bury several million Atari carts in the desert and no one sees or hears it...Are they really buried?

 

 

-Ray

[Spud]

A classified ad may catch your attention, but it also catches way less attention than an article. If you can convince the paper to write an article, it'd be waaay better. They probably would if you just called and talked to a writer or editor. Most newspapers are pretty open to new story ideas, especially local legend stuff. Plus, it doesn't cost a thing. I think it makes far more sense to try this first, and if it doesn't work, go the other route. You just have to make it really compelling for them. Maybe bullet point a list of controversies surrounding the legend and email it to them. Hell, just show them this thread. You may not even have to do that...they might just like the story. Even better...the newspaper writer will get the documents from the town in doing the research!!!

 

-Rob

I agree, an article would be much, much better. I'm working on the assumption here that the newspaper is not interested in doing the story -- I believe they have already been contacted and are likely well-aware of the myth. If they haven't done an exposé yet, I don't think they are likely to do one simply because a group of Atari fans ask them to. (But I suppose you never know until you try...)

 

However, the newspaper might be a good place to look for leads, especially if there are people still there who were around 20-25 years ago...

 

~G

 

 

I think the paper will run the story, the one they ran about me out there searching in April of 2005 about the landfill (that really wasn't a good story) made the front page. I wouldn't think it would be out of the question if we get a good story/ad to make it there again.

[jbanes]

Just call up Ray Kassar and James J. Morgan to bother them about it. Even if you don't get an answer, you'll at least get front page for trying.

 

BTW, did anyone else notice that Wikipedia has a prety good article on the dumping? They even backed it up with cites from newspapers and quotes. According to them, it wasn't E.T. cartridges alone, but just a bunch of junk and non-working hardware that Atari was getting rid of.

[A.J. Franzman]

BTW, did anyone else notice that Wikipedia has a prety good article on the dumping? They even backed it up with cites from newspapers and quotes. According to them, it wasn't E.T. cartridges alone, but just a bunch of junk and non-working hardware that Atari was getting rid of.

Various versions of the story have said that the bulk of the items buried were E.T. (and possibly also Pac-Man) cartridges, but mention has also been made of prototype hardware, some of which may have been mock-ups or empty cases (thus the "non-working" angle). However, I find it hard to believe that prototype hardware would have been in the El Paso warehouse in the first place. There's simply no need to ship it across the country from Sunnyvale before disposal. I can't believe they'd have so much proto hardware in Sunnyvale that they were running out of room, and shipped it off for storage before finally deciding to permanently dispose of it! Same thing goes for non-working released hardware (possibly units returned for refurbishment and deemed beyond repair) -- why not bury it locally?

Edited September 12, 2006 by A.J. Franzman

[moycon]

It's even possible that events of this nature would have been purposely kept secret from them, and anyone else in the company without a "need to know". Of course, those with the "need to know" would have been required to keep it secret.

 

Uh Oh, Is this where the men in black start showing up!!?? LOL Seriously, I've worked for companies (A bank as a matter of fact) that have dumped 100's of dumb terminals and outdated PCs. (None of which had the HD wiped BTW) and the process involed two lackies myself and a co-worker loading them up in carts and chucking them in a contruction dumpster. Anyone that was in the building that day (and it took all day) knew something was up (and kept asking if they could take some stuff) those carts made an awful racket when pushed across the tiles. Tell me again why if they were going to use the old surplus as a tax write off it would be such a huge secret?? Companies dump stuff all the time...it's true, it's not something that you invest any time or brain power in covering up (Unless you are pulling a fast one maybe). The super secret "need to know" theory is just a way to explain the lack of evidence...which is easily and logically explained away anyways, it probably didn't happen. Maybe they shut down the office for a few days and had armed guards posted to keep people away?? Haha Personally I think asking the locals is a great idea, altho if it were super secret like Franz suggests it probably doesnt matter. NExt we'll hear tales of infusing the local water supply with drugs to knock the population out while the black choppers came and whisked the carts away.

Edited September 12, 2006 by moycon

[gdement]

BTW, did anyone else notice that Wikipedia has a prety good article on the dumping? They even backed it up with cites from newspapers and quotes. According to them, it wasn't E.T. cartridges alone, but just a bunch of junk and non-working hardware that Atari was getting rid of.

 

That's the version of the story that I believe is more credible. They just trashed a bunch of stuff in general. That also isn't very exciting or unusual. The notion that Atari had to organize a massive expedition just to get rid of E.T. carts is where the story crosses into legend.

 

Is there any documentation that Atari actually produced more carts than consoles? That also strikes me as a possible historical exaggeration.

[moycon]

BTW, did anyone else notice that Wikipedia has a prety good article on the dumping? They even backed it up with cites from newspapers and quotes. According to them, it wasn't E.T. cartridges alone, but just a bunch of junk and non-working hardware that Atari was getting rid of.

 

That's the version of the story that I believe is more credible. They just trashed a bunch of stuff in general. That also isn't very exciting or unusual. The notion that Atari had to organize a massive expedition just to get rid of E.T. carts is where the story crosses into legend.

 

Is there any documentation that Atari actually produced more carts than consoles? That also strikes me as a possible historical exaggeration.

 

No, By the accounts I've seen I believe they produced around 5-6 million ET carts the 1st time, less than half of Pac-Man's initial run of round 11-13 million (accounts on both vary) and they produced a 2nd batch about 6 months after the supposedly smashed and buried millions of E.T. not sure how many were produced then. The sheer number of ET carts in peoples collection should make people question the whole story...but I guess not. The "produced more carts than consoles" is just another one of those BS Atari legends.

[mos6507]

I once heard a story about a landfill event for the Atari 1400 series computers. What made that story dramatic is that I was told that some of the Atari engineers rushed into the pit to save some boards in the nick of time, and that this may be the source of the remaing 1400XL and 1450XL boards in collector circles. If this had happened, I doubt it would have been in New Mexico, but you never know.

[rbudrick]

The super secret "need to know" theory is just a way to explain the lack of evidence...which is easily and logically explained away anyways, it probably didn't happen. 

 

Maybe, But peoples' suspicions were hardened by the town worker being so hush about it...making it sound like a secret, as though he wasn't allowed to divulge certain details.

 

-Rob

[A.J. Franzman]

It's even possible that events of this nature would have been purposely kept secret from them, and anyone else in the company without a "need to know". Of course, those with the "need to know" would have been required to keep it secret.

Uh Oh, Is this where the men in black start showing up!!?? LOL Seriously, I've worked for companies (A bank as a matter of fact) that have dumped 100's of dumb terminals and outdated PCs. (None of which had the HD wiped BTW) and the process involed two lackies myself and a co-worker loading them up in carts and chucking them in a contruction dumpster. Anyone that was in the building that day (and it took all day) knew something was up (and kept asking if they could take some stuff) those carts made an awful racket when pushed across the tiles.

Apples and oranges. You're describing disposal of obsolete, used, office equipment used by the employees, while the Atari legend is about new merchandise produced for retail sale but unsold (and apparently deemed unsellable by someone).

 

 

Tell me again why if they were going to use the old surplus as a tax write off it would be such a huge secret?? Companies dump stuff all the time...it's true, it's not something that you invest any time or brain power in covering up (Unless you are pulling a fast one maybe). The super secret "need to know" theory is just a way to explain the lack of evidence...which is easily and logically explained away anyways, it probably didn't happen. Maybe they shut down the office for a few days and had armed guards posted to keep people away?? Haha Personally I think asking the locals is a great idea, altho if it were super secret like Franz suggests it probably doesnt matter. NExt we'll hear tales of infusing the local water supply with drugs to knock the population out while the black choppers came and whisked the carts away.

I didn't say that "need to know" definitely was a factor, only that it was possibly a factor. I leave it to others to theorize why it may or may not have been officially kept secret from certain parties. I haven't seen an explanation from you yet as to why anyone outside of El Paso warehouse workers and managers, and the Sunnyvale management who authorized or ordered the disposal, should have known about it. It isn't necessary for something to be officially "secret" ("huge", "super", or otherwise pointlessly exaggerated) in order for it to be known only to a few.

Edited September 12, 2006 by A.J. Franzman

[moycon]

I haven't seen an explanation from you yet as to why anyone outside of El Paso warehouse workers and managers, and the Sunnyvale management who authorized or ordered the disposal, should have known about it.

 

Hu? Here's your flaw....supposedly everyone around there knew about it. Remember there was a reporter in the area that somehow picked up on it. And then there's the alledged security guards to keep the other mass of reporters at bay, oh and the local kids who were raiding the landfill and filled the near-by towns pawn shops. This is all info from your newspapers articles that some people are taking as gospel that this happened mind you, so maybe you are suggesting the articles are fabricated??

 

I'll tell you what, if this was a big secret and there was a huge cover up...they did a damn shitty job. You would have people subcribe to the theory that Atari managaed to keep this from all their employee's but a select few, but everyone outside the company was in the know!!?? I guess it is possible.

[A.J. Franzman]

I haven't seen an explanation from you yet as to why anyone outside of El Paso warehouse workers and managers, and the Sunnyvale management who authorized or ordered the disposal, should have known about it.

Hu? Here's your flaw....supposedly everyone around there knew about it.

I didn't say that. A reporter is not "everyone". Nor does a front-page story in Alamogordo or a small article somewhere in the New York Times make it national news.

 

 

Remember there was a reporter in the area that somehow picked up on it. And then there's the alledged security guards to keep the other mass of reporters at bay, oh and the local kids who were raiding the landfill and filled the near-by towns pawn shops. This is all info from your newspapers articles that some people are taking as gospel that this happened mind you, so maybe you are suggesting the articles are fabricated??

Are the tales of security guards, raiding kids, mass of reporters, and items in pawn shops, found in articles contemporary to the event?

 

BTW, I'm not taking any of this as "gospel" -- just with less outright unfounded skepticism and exaggeration than you are. You're the one making up the story of a ludicrous cover-up as a fallacious counter-example of why the burial didn't happen. Just because the idea of a cover-up as you portray it is ridiculous, doesn't automatically mean that if it wasn't covered up, lots of people should know about it, and that therefore since it does not appear that lots of people know about it, it could not have happened.

 

 

I'll tell you what, if this was a big secret and there was a huge cover up...they did a damn shitty job. You would have people subcribe to the theory that Atari managaed to keep this from all their employee's but a select few, but everyone outside the company was in the know!!?? I guess it is possible.

See, there you go again with the exaggerations attempting to support your fallacious logic; "big" secret, "huge" cover-up, and "everyone" outside the company. So far the only people who seem to be in the dark about this incident are just people who have no reason to know or care about it in the first place. If you can find evidence of someone who absolutely should have known about such an occurrance, but claims to know that no such thing happened, only then does a cover-up theory have any merit. So far, all you or anyone have is that people who couldn't care less about such things, or were geographically and/or corporate-politically "out of the loop" don't know that it happened. They don't know that it didn't happen either. Even if such people make claims that it did or did not happen, they must be regarded with skepticism until it has been shown that they were in a position in which they should have known about it in the first place.

Edited September 13, 2006 by A.J. Franzman

[moycon]

Anyone that read that paper or watched the news back in the day in that area (and any other area that picked up the story and reprinted it) would have known about it. The articles took place as it was happening. I really don't get where you are going with this.

 

People SHOULD have know about it, unless you are saying that people in that area didn't read the news paper or watch TV. I can't follow your argument. The answer seems very simple to me. I don't know any other reason people SHOULD know other than the information was readily available to them. Is that not a reason for you?? The only reason I could come up with the public not knowing would be off the wall and since you already accused me of going "again with the exaggerations attempting to support your fallacious logic" I'm at a loss to satisfy you. Maybe folks in that area can't read and are deaf and blind I guess?? That would definately support your theory and isn't as ridiculous as black choppers hu?

[2600lover]

Well yeah folks in that area should have know about it. How can you not hear or see a major event like that happening in your town (or city, whatever it is)

[G.Whiz]

Well yeah folks in that area should have know about it. How can you not hear or see a major event like that happening in your town (or city, whatever it is)

People who have nuclear, biochemical, and other hazardous waste trucked through their neighbourhood don't normally hear about it, and that is pretty major... I think that people did know about the Atari cart dump, but not simply because they live in the same town. I don't think there are many people who keep tabs on what is going into their city dumps.

 

~G

[2600lover]

Well, yeah but I mean come on now. A major company is trucking "waste" through your area. Someone from Atari must have called or wrote to some city waste offical to see it there dump of choice had room for the "waste". So it must have wound up in the paper, so people must have known, to some point.

[G.Whiz]

Well, yeah but I mean come on now. A major company is trucking "waste" through your area. Someone from Atari must have called or wrote to some city waste offical to see it there dump of choice had room for the "waste". So it must have wound up in the paper, so people must have known, to some point.

It did hit the news -- I saw it on TV, probably the Buffalo, NY news when it happened. I remember seeing a big dump truck dumping its load, though it may have been stock footage (this was a long time ago!) So somewhere along the line someone heard about it. I'm sure the Alamagordo news had it too. In fact I seem to remember something about that in this very same thread.

 

I'm just saying that the locals wouldn't have necessarily known about it simply because it was coming to their landfill. The city waste official may not have even known they were carts, just wanted to know that it was non-hazardous (if that even -- this was the early '80s after all) and how much it weighed so that he could charge accordingly.

 

~G

[Rik]

Howard Scott Warshaw was asked in an interview if the burying of unsold E.T carts was true,he said it WAS NOT,and if you think he said this in defense or embarassment,he went on further saying,"I wish it was true,I'd think it would be pretty cool that I helped bring down a multi-million dollar company".He also reasoned with the same arguement I have,in that "does it make sense a company would bury hundreds of thousands of cartridges,when they could have sold the parts for recycling for other products,etc,there would have been an ENORMOUS amount of money from the recycling of those carts alone".I hear good points from both sides of this debate,I'm not saying this is true, just putting in what i recently read,and yes you cant believe everything you read.I honestly dont think we'll ever know the truth,pictures and photos dont prove anything,it would require digging in the EXACT spot and PULLING out the evidence,bits of broken plastic,or any remnants that consist of a gaming program.Until I see that happen ,I give it a %30 chance of it being true,but it would have to be done by a group of ambitous ATARI buffs,depending on laws,cause no one else cares whether or not this is true.

Edited September 16, 2006 by Rik

[mos6507]

Atari wanted a tax writeoff. I'm sure they crunched the numbers and they would save more money by dumping the carts than they would have by recycling them. Tax laws sometimes encourage waste in this way. Atari could not have gotten that tax writeoff via recycling the parts into new products. They would have to make the inventory completely unusable. Even if Atari could have saved more money via recycling, Atari was always making the wrong decision. Why expect them to suddenly make the right one about the overstock of ET carts?

 

However, I do agree there is enough controversy to merit an investigation.