Question for Curt

[+batari]

The podcast Curt did really goes into the details of the games and he addresses

the issue with some of sync problems.  It basically answered my question.  Dont

get the wrong idea, I like the FB 2.  It's a great product, and if anything I was

dissappointed that Asteroids Deluxe did not work properly.  Today I tried it on a

modern TV and while the sync problem was not as bad it still was unbearable (for me

at least).

948739[/snapback]

I agree with you. I think the FB2's hardware is very impressive, and was thoughtfully designed. I'm doing the cart hack to mine. It's really cool that the instructions for wiring up a cart are printed right on the circuit board!

 

However, as a 2600 programmer myself, I am disappointed with some of the new games. I can't quite understand why Atari didn't contract out some folks here to write new games (or hack existing games) instead of hiring programmers who knew nothing of 2600 programming going in (and judging by the quality of some of the work, still don't know much.)

 

The scanline problems simply shouldn't be in a commercial product like this. Sure, homebrewers here have made the same mistake with early demos of their games, but inconsistent scanline counts are pretty much always fixed before final release. An experienced 2600 programmer knows enough to spend a measly two minutes and do a scanline count in z26. Some of these games are unplayable on my TV.

 

Also, it appears that Caverns of Mars and Lunar Lander were written by the same programmer, because he couldn't figure out how to draw a playfield and a couple of sprites on the same frame (which is not that hard...) Plus let's not get started on the poor sprite design and abysmal physics in Lunar Lander. There is no excuse for these two flickery migraine-inducing games.

 

I don't care if the FB2 has a few hardware problems (like with Galaxian, Supercharger or whatnot) and I don't care if these aren't fixed in the next revision. I am totally happy with the hardware. However, some of the games really should be fixed. I think it reflects badly on Atari to have these games on there.

 

I would like to extend an open offer to the FB2 team to fix some of these games. I'll bet other programmers here would be willing to help as well. It wouldn't take long - I estimate that a good 2600 programmer/hacker could fix a game in just a couple of days.

[kevin242]

According to the podcast, Curt tried to get Homebrew authors to write the games, but couldnt

get anyone to commit to do it in the 2 months he had to get them done, so they

were done by a software house that had no idea how to program the 2600 and they

basically delivered a bunch of useless games.

[+batari]

According to the podcast, Curt tried to get Homebrew authors  to write the games, but couldnt

get anyone to commit to do it in the 2 months he had to get them done, so they

were done by a software house that had no idea how to program the 2600 and they

basically delivered a bunch of useless games.

948792[/snapback]

Who did he ask? And when did he ask?

 

If he had asked me, I would have said yes. I imagine that others would too, if they had just been asked.

[mstulir]

If the playtesters, or Curt himself, are easily offended over reviews which are BAD about their product, I've got a couple words:

 

BOO and HOO!

 

Believe me, Curt, Marty and I are the harshest critics of FB2. Part of the reason Curt asked me to be on the team for the original Flashback (and stay on for FB2 & beyond) is because I am a real nitpicking bastard when it comes to details. No one wants these units to be 100% authentic more than we do.

 

I am not offended by criticism, as long as it doesn't get personal.

[supercat]

Also, it appears that Caverns of Mars and Lunar Lander were written by the same programmer, because he couldn't figure out how to draw a playfield and a couple of sprites on the same frame (which is not that hard...)  Plus let's not get started on the poor sprite design and abysmal physics in Lunar Lander. There is no excuse for these two flickery migraine-inducing games.

948791[/snapback]

 

Actually, I was wondering whether Lunar Lander might have first been written with some sort of vector-ish kernel which would have used up all the sprites to draw the landscape and then, on alternate frames, shown the ship. There are a few reasons for such a hunch:

• The box artwork shows a vector lunar surface, which suggests that at some point that was the plan.
  
• Given the striped lunar surface that's there now, a 2LK showing one sprite would have been so positively trivial I can't really imagine someone having trouble doing it.
  
• A fully-detailed "vector-style" lunar surface could have easily used up all the sprites, giving a "reason" for flicker
  
• Flicker would have been visually much less objectionable if the lunar surface were an outline instead of being solid.
  
• Writing "vector" lunar surface code so that it would work on an emulator would likely have resulted in its breaking on the FB2's actual hardware (at least the way I would have written such code)
  
• Many of the 'flaky' games probably work fine in emulation, and so developers probably got their games perfected in emulation before running them on real hardware.
  

Thus, my theory would be that Lunar Lander was written to run beautifully with vector-style graphics on an emulator, but it failed when run on the actual FB2 hardware. The ugly striped playfield as a 'quick fix' to make the game work.

 

Does anyone at Infogrames have any idea whether things might have happened that way?

[Retro Rogue]

Actually, I was wondering whether Lunar Lander might have first been written with some sort of vector-ish kernel

 

Curt would be able to answer that with certainty, but I think I recall that it was going to be vector based (like aracde asteroids, asteroids deluxe). Don't quote me though, that time period was so hectic. Changes every other minute, and for these games (arcade asteroids, asteroids deluxe, etc.) I had to write the first versions of the manuals for them before I even saw those games. I think I personally had a good 3-5 revisions of each and every game, plus there was the going back and forth with the layout people who didn't keep the revisions straight, which created even more revisions.

 

 

Does anyone at Infogrames have any idea whether things might have happened that way?

948913[/snapback]

 

 

Not Infogrames, Atari Inc. Different company.

[sidcrowe]

Oh, man.......I hope that we Canucks get the revision, and I hope its good :/

[Kokovec]

Oh, man.......I hope that we Canucks get the revision, and I hope its good  :/

950746[/snapback]

 

You should do what this Canuck did... move to the States

I do miss the city of my youth (Montreal) but two things keep me here..

 

1) I have not had to drive in snow in over 7 years

2) I already own 2 FB2's

 

The only thing I really miss is hockey.

[Velvis]

Just out of curiosities sake:

 

When they were creating the FB2, did they just download the roms from the internet, or create them from left over atari binaries, or extracted them themselves?

[Lord Helmet]

It might be better / more polite to just pm him rather than asking publicly

[jlh2600]

Just so you know what's in store.

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=77358

[Velvis]

...and my question would be considered inpolite how?

[sku_u]

...and my question would be considered inpolite how?

967216[/snapback]

 

It's not impolite as others may have the same question. The main reason someone suggested contacting Curt via PM is that you are specifically addressing a single person in a public thread anyone can read and reply to. Had you titled the thread something along the lines of FB2 games question, I doubt anyone would have said anything.

[Curt Vendel]

Hi,

 

It was a mixed bag of what was available and what was already pulled from disks from storage and off of some backup mainframe tapes. I know one game which would've been nice to have had a later version of would've been Frog Pond, just to have the nicer opening screen, but it wasn't a big deal overall in the end.

 

 

Is there a reason you ask?

 

 

Curt

 

...and my question would be considered inpolite how?

967216[/snapback]

 

It's not impolite as others may have the same question. The main reason someone suggested contacting Curt via PM is that you are specifically addressing a single person in a public thread anyone can read and reply to. Had you titled the thread something along the lines of FB2 games question, I doubt anyone would have said anything.

967231[/snapback]

[Lord Helmet]

...and my question would be considered inpolite how?

967216[/snapback]

 

It's not impolite as others may have the same question. The main reason someone suggested contacting Curt via PM is that you are specifically addressing a single person in a public thread anyone can read and reply to. Had you titled the thread something along the lines of FB2 games question, I doubt anyone would have said anything.

967231[/snapback]

 

Exactly!

No harm done, just words of wisdom

[Velvis]

Curt: I was just interested in what the process would be to gather such old binaries, especially given Atari's history of being sold over and over.

 

So there are mainframes somewhere with Atari 2600 code sitting on them? Interesting stuff.

[mos6507]

There used to be.

[Curt Vendel]

There still are. I have a PDP-11/54 (Atari-1) for Atari's very early RSTS OS disks , a Vax 4000 (Mike/Gawd/Mike/Gawd) for much of Atari's VMS tapes and disks, and an 11/750 (Serial# matches "Vulcan" from Atari's mainframe inventory listing) for Atari's VMS and BSDUnix tapes and disks. Over 1,500 tapes have been recovered to date and several thousand disks.

 

 

 

Curt

 

There used to be.

967427[/snapback]

[+Allan]

There still are.    I have a PDP-11/54 (Atari-1) for Atari's very early RSTS OS disks , a Vax 4000 (Mike/Gawd/Mike/Gawd) for much of Atari's VMS tapes and disks, and an 11/750 (Serial# matches "Vulcan" from Atari's mainframe inventory listing) for Atari's VMS and BSDUnix tapes and disks.      Over 1,500 tapes have been recovered to date and several thousand disks.

 

 

 

Curt

 

There used to be.

967427[/snapback]

967550[/snapback]

 

 

WOW!! Is that where all the source code listings you've been posting lately have been coming from? Hopefully you'll find some more interesting things. Something tells me you already have but are just waiting for the right time to release them.

 

Allan

[Thomas Jentzsch]

WOW!! Is that where all the source code listings you've been posting lately have been coming from? Hopefully you'll find some more interesting things.

Pretty exciting, isn't it?

[+Allan]

WOW!! Is that where all the source code listings you've been posting lately have been coming from? Hopefully you'll find some more interesting things.

Pretty exciting, isn't it?

967584[/snapback]

 

Yes!!! So who wants to guess what will pop up? 5200 Black Widow source code. 7800 Tempest binary. Makes you wonder about all the possibilities.

 

Were there any 2600 rumored games that never came out from Atari?

 

Allan

[Pipercub]

"Over 1,500 tapes have been recovered to date and several thousand disks."

 

 

I suppose asking for that stuff to be made available on a data DVD for a small fee would not get anywhere, and I know that. It is hopefully a giant repository of future releases for Atari. So I guess the most practical request is to ask for Atari to sell these in whatever way they see fit but please do so soon while Atari has the steam and will with the success of the FB series!

[DEBRO]

Yes!!! So who wants to guess what will pop up? 5200 Black Widow source code. 7800 Tempest binary. Makes you wonder about all the possibilities.

 

Were there any 2600 rumored games that never came out from Atari?

Will we get to see and play Good Luck, Charlie Brown? I certainly hope so

[+Allan]

Yes!!! So who wants to guess what will pop up? 5200 Black Widow source code. 7800 Tempest binary. Makes you wonder about all the possibilities.

 

Were there any 2600 rumored games that never came out from Atari?

Will we get to see and play Good Luck, Charlie Brown? I certainly hope so

967646[/snapback]

 

Boy I bet the person who has this game would be mad if it was found and released to the public.

 

Wouldn't you guys rather see an arcade game found as appossed to a kids game. I guess any find is good but I rather have something playable and fun for kids and adults.

 

Allan

[DEBRO]

Wouldn't you guys rather see an arcade game found as appossed to a kids game. I guess any find is good but I rather have something playable and fun for kids and adults.

I've always wanted to play Good Luck, Charlie Brown. When I read the description I thought it sounded fun and different.

 

I remember playing a Net Yaroze game on the PlayStation Underground Volume 2 disk where you were flying a paper airplane. Even though I couldn't read Japanese I thought it was a fun game and a different concept. This is what I'm expecting from Good Luck, Charlie Brown. I hope I'm not disappointed when it finally surfaces.