+johnnywc Posted August 16, 2006 Author Share Posted August 16, 2006 - STANDARD score is light pink - NOVICE score is light green - ADVANCED score is light orange IMO you should swap the colors for STANDARD and ADVANCED. Orange is somewhere in between Green and Pink, so that should be the color for STANDARD. Hmmm... I see your point about the colors. The choice for pink as STANDARD is because 99% of the time people will be playing that skill level and I thought the pink color for the score looked the best. I'll have to think about this one. I have the score color set at all times (so you know what level you're playing *while* you're playing) I also changed the color of the skill level text on the title screen to match this scheme.... - after a game, if you change the skill level the score is reset to 0 Good ideas! Now competitions become possible. That's what I was thinking! Thanks again for the suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Thanks again for the suggestions. Just tell me, when I become too nitpicking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Thanks again for the suggestions.Just tell me, when I become too nitpicking. Tsk, tsk, You're way too harmless these days. Where's your usual last minute suggestion requiring a total rewrite of the display kernel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEBRO Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Tsk, tsk, You're way too harmless these days. Where's your usual last minute suggestion requiring a total rewrite of the display kernel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r_type2600 Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Color-coding for the different levels is a clever additional touch of polish! Though I would personally prefer the score display remain white during the standard games. After all that's the most standard color for scores...and the different difficulty levels would still remain perfectly differentiable. It's simply more arcade-authentic that way, and emphasizes the standard aspect best. The green/pink/orange coding for the levels on the title screen is nice though and could remain unchanged - inconsistency is not really an issue here, I find. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+johnnywc Posted August 16, 2006 Author Share Posted August 16, 2006 (edited) Color-coding for the different levels is a clever additional touch of polish! Though I would personally prefer the score display remain white during the standard games. After all that's the most standard color for scores...and the different difficulty levels would still remain perfectly differentiable. It's simply more arcade-authentic that way, and emphasizes the standard aspect best. The green/pink/orange coding for the levels on the title screen is nice though and could remain unchanged - inconsistency is not really an issue here, I find. Eric Thanks for the suggestions. Believe it or not, the arcade score is a light green/blue (not white). Personally, I think the white is too contrasting anyway (at least on my TV) and I find the new colors to be much more appealing (and, as it turns out, more authentic!). The pink is very bright too (almost white) and it keeps with the character of the game (after all, it is a lady bug... ). There is still a couple of weeks until release so I'm sure there will be many more asthetic tweaks to come. I freed up a few more bytes of ROM so keep those ideas coming! Thanks! Edited August 16, 2006 by johnnywc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r_type2600 Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Thanks for the suggestions. Believe it or not, the arcade score is a light green/blue (not white). Personally, I think the white is too contrasting anyway (at least on my TV) and I find the new colors to be much more appealing (and, as it turns out, more authentic!). The pink is very bright too (almost white) and it keeps with the character of the game (after all, it is a lady bug... ). There is still a couple of weeks until release so I'm sure there will be many more asthetic tweaks to come. I freed up a few more bytes of ROM so keep those ideas coming! Thanks! Uh.. I stand corrected ... and converted You asked for it! Besides some earlier suggestions (session Hi-score/ Demo instructions) which would most likely still break any realistic ROM boundaries, just another observation I made playing the arcade game: There, picking up a veggie would display its value. Nothing that's really being missed though. And it definetely would be anticlimatic in the veggie harvest screen! Cheers, Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 There, picking up a veggie would display its value. Nothing that's really being missed though. And it definetely would be anticlimatic in the veggie harvest screen! Maybe. But then you could use this short moment to develop and optimize your strategy for maximizing points here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r_type2600 Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Maybe. But then you could use this short moment to develop and optimize your strategy for maximizing points here. Actually, to have to remember the value of the veggies before going for the highest ones just adds another welcome gameplay element, IMO. Like a high-speed memory challenge... Besides, one would only see the value after picking up the veggie; so not really much of a hint... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Actually, to have to remember the value of the veggies before going for the highest ones just adds another welcome gameplay element, IMO. Like a high-speed memory challenge... Besides, one would only see the value after picking up the veggie; so not really much of a hint... Yup. For experienced players, it really doesn't matter what is displayed there. But I was wondering about the short break which would occure then. Either you get distracted by the points displayed or, being a more experienced player, you use this little pause to your own advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r_type2600 Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Yup. For experienced players, it really doesn't matter what is displayed there. But I was wondering about the short break which would occure then. Either you get distracted by the points displayed or, being a more experienced player, you use this little pause to your own advantage. The short breaks are actually where I see the anticlimax - the harvest is so fun IMO because it has that touch of an all-breaks-loose glutony feast (Das Grosse Fressen), a nice contrast to the careful tactics of the actual game. Short breaks would distract from that mood, I find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Short breaks would distract from that mood, I find. I understand. I suppose it's all a matter of personal preferences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panamajoe Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 There is still a couple of weeks until release so I'm sure there will be many more asthetic tweaks to come. I freed up a few more bytes of ROM so keep those ideas coming! Thanks! well... MemCard support would be awesome... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 (edited) John, I have to say it: I really think the Lady moves a little bit too sluggish. Is it possible to speed her up a little? It still feels like I'm pushing the bug, instead of guiding it. I also think the enemies move a little bit too fast on the later levels. It gives the player more time to think about blocking enemies by flipping doors, which IMO is the main reason for playing this game. Besides that: one of the best Atari 2600 homebrews ever made. Keep up the excellent work! Edited August 17, 2006 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+johnnywc Posted August 17, 2006 Author Share Posted August 17, 2006 ROM boundaries, just another observation I made playing the arcade game: There, picking up a veggie would display its value. Nothing that's really being missed though. And it definetely would be anticlimatic in the veggie harvest screen! Although there is not enough ROM (or kernel time) to display the veggie score in the middle, I may be able to have it displayed where the score is located for a few seconds. I'll look into this. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+johnnywc Posted August 17, 2006 Author Share Posted August 17, 2006 (edited) I have to say it: I really think the Lady moves a little bit too sluggish. Is it possible to speed her up a little? It still feels like I'm pushing the bug, instead of guiding it. I also think the enemies move a little bit too fast on the later levels. It gives the player more time to think about blocking enemies by flipping doors, which IMO is the main reason playing this game. Besides that: one of the best Atari 2600 homebrews ever made. Keep up the excellent work! I just played the MAME version and the 2600 version does move slower - I guess I've just gotten used to it! Here are two versions: one with a faster lady bug and one that moves as before. Which do people prefer? The faster one *feels* more like the arcade. (FYI - I sped up the the insects and color timer on the fast version). Changes (fast version): - ladybug moves faster - insects move faster - color timer moves faster - less time on the SPECIAL screen I was also able to free up almost 100 bytes by combining a few functions. Please let me know which version you prefer. EDIT: I may be able to make this into a difficulty setting: Left Difficulty: A = slow ladybug, B = fast ladybug Right difficulty would control the brightness of the maze (only 2 shades instead of 4) Thanks, ladybug_fast_NTSC.bin ladybug_fast_PAL60.bin ladybug_slow_NTSC.bin ladybug_slow_PAL60.bin Edited August 17, 2006 by johnnywc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory DG Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 EDIT: I may be able to make this into a difficulty setting: Left Difficulty: A = slow ladybug, B = fast ladybug Right difficulty would control the brightness of the maze (only 2 shades instead of 4) That's got my vote. Unless you had some other use for the difficulty switches? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdub_bobby Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 I vote for the fast version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+johnnywc Posted August 17, 2006 Author Share Posted August 17, 2006 New version: - left A/B controls LB speed: B = fast, A = slow - right A/B controls maze brightness (B = dark, A = light) Questions: 1. should the player be able to switch between fast/slow in-game? Personally, I always liked being able to switch in-game, but I know some people prefer to have the setting stay throughout the game. 2. another idea (which would make question 1 irrelevant): should I keep the A/B brightness scheme from before and make the ladybug slow on ADVANCED only? Suggestions, as always, are welcomed. ladybug_NTSC.bin ladybug_PAL60.bin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 (edited) 1. should the player be able to switch between fast/slow in-game? Personally, I always liked being able to switch in-game, but I know some people prefer to have the setting stay throughout the game. Would the switch change anything else (e.g. scoring?). Then an in-game switch could add some strategy elements to the game. You would start with the harder settings for maximizing points early and later switch to slower to squeeze out even more points. This worked pretty well in Manuel's Star Fire. Suggestions, as always, are welcomed. IMO the switch should make the game harder by making the enemies faster and not LB slower. IMO it is already moving pretty slow compared to the arcade. EDIT: In the new version the fast speed is better. EDIT#2: Just testet the latest PAL60 version on TV. Solid grey has become flickering, light purple again. Edited August 17, 2006 by Thomas Jentzsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 (edited) John, The speed of the bug in the fast version is perfect now! But I think the enemies should move a little bit slower. IMO they still move too fast (especially in the later levels!). It's already difficult enough with all of them on screen at once. Otherwise you don't have enough time to think about picking up certain letters and flipping certain doors (which IMO is a very important factor of Lady Bug's gameplay!). Switching to a darker maze doesn't really have too much effect. I like the brighter version even better, despite the flicker of the maze. My suggestion (keeping the later levels in mind): Don't let the insects move faster in the fast version. Let the insects move a little bit slower in the slow version. Skip the brightness switch. Maybe it's an idea to let the insects come out of their nest faster one after another, instead of speeding them up too much? Keep up the good work! Edited August 17, 2006 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdub_bobby Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 1. should the player be able to switch between fast/slow in-game? Personally, I always liked being able to switch in-game, but I know some people prefer to have the setting stay throughout the game.2. another idea (which would make question 1 irrelevant): should I keep the A/B brightness scheme from before and make the ladybug slow on ADVANCED only? Suggestions, as always, are welcomed. #1: I'd prefer to only allow switching at the title screen (i.e., not in-game) - also, if you could show, somehow, the state of that flag on the title screen that would be *very* cool. The A/B switches on my 4-switch are tiny and on the back of the machine so I rarely know what state they are in and I never remember to check them. I know it's hard to add elements to a kernel with limited time/space but I think it is important. #2: No. Speed up enemies instead. I'd find a slower LB speed more frustrating than challenging in comparison to the regular levels. And the speed of the enemies (on STANDARD) seems about right to me, though I haven't made a direct comparison with MAME. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+johnnywc Posted August 17, 2006 Author Share Posted August 17, 2006 1. should the player be able to switch between fast/slow in-game? Personally, I always liked being able to switch in-game, but I know some people prefer to have the setting stay throughout the game.2. another idea (which would make question 1 irrelevant): should I keep the A/B brightness scheme from before and make the ladybug slow on ADVANCED only? Suggestions, as always, are welcomed. #1: I'd prefer to only allow switching at the title screen (i.e., not in-game) - also, if you could show, somehow, the state of that flag on the title screen that would be *very* cool. The A/B switches on my 4-switch are tiny and on the back of the machine so I rarely know what state they are in and I never remember to check them. I know it's hard to add elements to a kernel with limited time/space but I think it is important. #2: No. Speed up enemies instead. I'd find a slower LB speed more frustrating than challenging in comparison to the regular levels. And the speed of the enemies (on STANDARD) seems about right to me, though I haven't made a direct comparison with MAME. Thanks for the suggestions. #1 - will try to find a bit of RAM to store the state of the switch at startup so that it can't be changed in-game. will also see if i can show the state of the a/b switch on the title screen as well #2 ADVANCED has faster moving bugs, NOVICE has slower moving bugs. I'll keep the A/B switch as fast/slow ladybug. IMO it is the perfect difficultly setting. In my testing I found the game to be *too* easy (I got 300K 3 games in a row) so I tweaked the insect movement a bit: - insects start a little faster than before (not much though) to be closer to the arcade - insects don't reverse as much and roam the maze more (per the arcade). this reduces the "clustering effect", especially on the later levels - insects pursuit a little more often Game seems to play well, but I'm not a good person to test since I've played this game 1000 times... Any feedback (especially on the difficulty) is appreciated. Thanks, ladybug_NTSC.bin ladybug_PAL60.bin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 Any chance for a non-flickering PAL60 version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 John, I don't notice much difference when switching Lady Bug's speed. I really like the intelligence of the insects! But I still think they move too fast on the later levels. You played a lot of games, so you know how to crack this game, but trust me: the speed of the insects is a little bit too much. Please take my advice. I'm a pretty good video game player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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