Atari 7800, First impressions

[okto]

That helps, but really it's a cop-out. It doesn't tweak the difficulty, it just starts a standard game at level 10.

I actually really like that about it. In fact, 7800 Galaga's Expert mode is something I want in almost every arcade game: the ability to skip the really easy and boring levels at the beginning.

[okto]

You're working on some homebrew projects for the 7800? I love to see what you got planned. Given the games GCC made for the 7800, I find it a little odd that they never made Missile Command. I suppose it's a "been there, done that " kind of project.

<...>

I might be able to experiment with using a light gun for input (which is something I've always wanted to try with Missile Command anyway).

Ooo! Do it do it! Missile Command with a light gun would be brilliant, and a gaming first to boot. Sub question: are there any good lightgun games for the 7800?

 

(sorry for the doublepost)

Edited March 18, 2006 by okto

[ZylonBane]

That helps, but really it's a cop-out. It doesn't tweak the difficulty, it just starts a standard game at level 10.

No, it's a recognition of the fact that in games like this the level IS the difficulty.

[+FujiSkunk]

That helps, but really it's a cop-out. It doesn't tweak the difficulty, it just starts a standard game at level 10.

No, it's a recognition of the fact that in games like this the level IS the difficulty.

 

Asteroids and especially Xevious on the 7800 did a good job of ramping up the difficulty without simply resorting to starting at higher levels. I'm all for including a level-skip feature, but call it what it is.

[atari_2600_master]

I never had a 7800 and from what I've heard off this thread I'm not getting one.

[The_Laird]

I never had a 7800 and from what I've heard off this thread I'm not getting one.

 

You'll be missing out then on some of the finest arcade conversions on any Atari machine. Not to mention classic games like Ballblazer, Midnight Mutants and of course Ninja Golf

[supercat]

Asteroids and especially Xevious on the 7800 did a good job of ramping up the difficulty without simply resorting to starting at higher levels. I'm all for including a level-skip feature, but call it what it is.

 

Fair enough.

 

It should be noted that on some games, ascending levels increase in difficulty simply by increasing some quantity (e.g. Asteroids by adding more rocks), while others have structured levels which are qualitatively different. I tend to prefer level skips to other methods of increasing difficulty, assuming the difficulty doesn't plateau, since it tends to make performances at different skill levels somewhat comparable, especially in games with Tempest-style bonuses or with increasing scoring (starting at a higher level may allow the player to have more lives when he enters the higher-scoring areas, but he won't have the points he would have had if he'd started lower).

 

And is it really worthwhile to have 16 different high scores for Space Invaders, or 24 for Asteroids?

[The_Laird]

I never had a 7800 and from what I've heard off this thread I'm not getting one.

How come you said in the 2600 forum that your favourite game was Ninja Golf then?

[Lord Helmet]

I never had a 7800 and from what I've heard off this thread I'm not getting one.

How come you said in the 2600 forum that your favourite game was Ninja Golf then?

 

I second that question...

[Paranoid]

I never had a 7800 and from what I've heard off this thread I'm not getting one.

 

You'll be missing out then on some of the finest arcade conversions on any Atari machine. Not to mention classic games like Ballblazer, Midnight Mutants and of course Ninja Golf

 

Hey, don't convince the 2600 guys they should have an Atari 7800. Let them keep the 2600 priced artificially high while less demand makes the 7800, a 2600 which plays bonus games, far less expensive to find.

 

"I could have a normal 2600, which is rare, older, and has about 6 different major iterations (including clones) which introduce compatability issues, and has no viable current multi-cart alternative... or I could have a 7800, which has 3 major iterations, less compatibility issues, is more modern/isn't as old, plays almost ALL 2600 games, plus a library of 7800 games, some of which are pretty good, has an available, new, nifty multi-cart option (The CC2), and will probably cost me less... I'm going for the 2600!!!!"

[stop_rebel_scum]

2600's are rare? Ebay here I come!

 

I have a 7800 for the same reason I have a 5200... because it's there, and because I can play some atari games on it that I can't play on the 2600.

 

As noted, the best of these games are indeed midnight mutants, tower toppler, choplifter, ninja golf, meltdown, crossbow and alien brigade. There are a few others that are pretty good as well, but I must admit this is a small library of 'must-have's' for any system. Three of those games are light gun games, which many gamers play a few times and never touch or don't bother to pick up in the first place. The other games are great but have an issue or two each. The absolute worst 7800 games like hat trick, karateka, etc are pretty bad and there are too many simulations like tomcat and super huey. The arcade conversions are not That much better than the 2600 in any area except graphics and sometimes aren't even that much better looking. It's also saddled with poor joysticks, a bad console design (I don't like the loose/breakable buttons or the lack of a spring or sliding slot cover) and I think it's prone to failure, as i've seen more DOA 78's than 26's in my life.

 

All this said.. So what. I love the 7800. It's fun and I have to own a copy because I collect atari games and if I didn't have one, it'd haunt me. If we're going to crack on atari systems, we may as well attack ol' stella herself... they didn't make it the most powerful and versatile system they could have when it was first produced and the initial run of games were pretty poor... and we all know how much we all love the 2600 now.

 

Which reminds me.. I have a 7800 that's DOA. Anybody pay postage and trade me a 2600 cart or somethin for it? I also have a doa SMS. Anybody like DOA? "Hardcore 81" was pretty good and they're actually still a decent band. I Prefer DRI myself, but only while DWI.

[Paranoid]

I think "War on 45" was really their peak.

 

As far as the 2600... rare might not have been the best choice of words. They're uncommon, simply by being older. Your 2600 has been around the block more, typically speaking. They're getting to a point where you don't run across them at garage sales or estate sales or thrift stores. Especially not a nice tidy box that has been sitting in an attic since Jr. went away to college. The 2600 has gone through several phases of being collected and sought after. The majority of very good to mint examples are already owned by some "collector".

 

The 7800 and NES though, are still in this category, IMO. There may be fewer actual 7800s out there, but you're far more likely to find one in good condition at a garage sale for $10, working... with a library of games.

 

I played Karateka yesterday. You guys must not have played Karateka on anything else. It plays pretty much like it did on any other system (C=64) and the graphics are pretty close, as well. I keep hearing reviews about how it was better on other systems. It was really a difficult, frustrating game on the other systems, too.

 

Finally, I think you must need glasses if you're going to compare 7800 graphics to 2600 graphics. Night and Day. While the 2600 can be pushed to do some remarkable things, it is a matter of pushing it. The 7800 graphics are generally superior to the 5200, which is days beyond the 2600.

 

I also *never* recommend collecting something just because it has a fuji logo on it. Getting advice from collectors is also a risky proposition, as they often have some other subconscious things that they're evaluating when they give advice on a console. I've owned a Lynx... and a TG16... and a game-gear, and a... I'll never own those again. I have zero interest in anything they have to offer as a *gamer* or from nostalgia. I'm not *knocking* those who are "collectors". If having a shrinkwraped, NIB, original run Lynx that you never open and play with does it for you... then by all means, go right ahead. If you're willing to pay a premium for the worst (and thus rarest) Atari 2600 games to come out right at the peak of the crash... be my guest.

 

I just don't get it.

[+FujiSkunk]

've owned a Lynx... and a TG16... and a game-gear, and a... I'll never own those again. I have zero interest in anything they have to offer as a *gamer* or from nostalgia. I'm not *knocking* those who are "collectors". If having a shrinkwraped, NIB, original run Lynx that you never open and play with does it for you... then by all means, go right ahead.

 

Just keep in mind that some of us keep systems like the Lynx and the Game Gear because we're gamers. You will not find a better version of STUN Runners or RoadBlasters outside of the emulators.

[DracIsBack]

I think "War on 45" was really their peak.

I played Karateka yesterday. You guys must not have played Karateka on anything else. It plays pretty much like it did on any other system (C=64) and the graphics are pretty close, as well. I keep hearing reviews about how it was better on other systems. It was really a difficult, frustrating game on the other systems, too.

 

Can't agree there. I have it on the XEGS and I have it on the 7800. The XE's graphics are better (even though the 7800 SHOULd have sharper graphics). The control is SIGNIFICANTLY more responsive on the XE than the 7800, which has horrible delays. The gameplay is deeper too.

[Bakasama]

Can't agree there. I have it on the XEGS and I have it on the 7800. The XE's graphics are better (even though the 7800 SHOULd have sharper graphics). The control is SIGNIFICANTLY more responsive on the XE than the 7800, which has horrible delays. The gameplay is deeper too.

 

Another I remember about 7800 Karateka is that you CAN'T kill that punk ass bird but can in the other versions.

[Paranoid]

've owned a Lynx... and a TG16... and a game-gear, and a... I'll never own those again. I have zero interest in anything they have to offer as a *gamer* or from nostalgia. I'm not *knocking* those who are "collectors". If having a shrinkwraped, NIB, original run Lynx that you never open and play with does it for you... then by all means, go right ahead.

 

Just keep in mind that some of us keep systems like the Lynx and the Game Gear because we're gamers. You will not find a better version of STUN Runners or RoadBlasters outside of the emulators.

 

Oh... well that really *is* my point. If you've got an attachment to a game, even a single game, on a particular console, that you enjoy, then I'm all for having that console. If you buy a console that you were interested in but never had back in the day, I'm all for that. What I don't understand is having a console *just* because it is part of a larger "collection", even though you have no real other interest in that console. I've got a Sega Genesis, because I enjoy Sonic the Hedgehog. I don't have any other titles but the Sonic titles, and I doubt I would ever pick other titles up unless it was a HUGE bargain (20 carts for $5 at a garage sale or thrift store, I'd probably do). What I don't get is the people who have dozens of different consoles that they don't have a nostalgic place for, and that they're not interested in the games in particular on that system.

 

I'd like a Vectrex, which I never owned, but was always fascinated with, just to have true vector games. I'd like to have a Coleco and a good library, and I'd like to have a NES and Super Mario World. I'd like to have a, C=64, Amiga and an Atari ST. Beyond that... NeoGeo, Genesis 32 or CD, Jaguar, Atari 8 bit, etc... I don't feel the need to collect them all. Even some of those I mention, I'd *like* to have them, but don't have the practical space for them... so I'll probably never have an Amiga or ST or C=64 again, simply because they require so much real estate, comparative to a console that hooks up to the same TV as a half dozen other consoles can hook up to.

 

And to me, that is where the 7800 with CC2 shines. I can actually increase my real estate available for other consoles by consolidating two consoles and their entire libraries in one console and a single cart. That rocks. It makes having a 2600 redundant. The only reason I'm hanging on to my 2600 or FB2s are as spares... not out of a quest to have different 2600 systems. If they're functionally equivialent, it is all the same to me.

[Paranoid]

Karateka... maybe I'm wrong. I never liked it much on the C=64 or Amiga. It seemed like one of those games with tremendous potential, poorly executed, to me. I could never get very far. And the issues with laggy controls and fuzzy graphics, I'll give you... but it wasn't ultra responsive on the Commodore or Amiga, either, as I recall. It took me awhile before I stopped running into puches and getting laid out on the first screen.

 

Prince of Persia always seemed similar to me in the "goregeous graphics and super concept, but poor execution with little actual play value" sense.

Edited March 21, 2006 by Paranoid

[The_Laird]

Prince Of Persia was by the same programmers as Karateka, which as far as I know didn't come out on the Amiga but I could be wrong.

[Paranoid]

You're probably right. I'm really fuzzy on which games where on which machines, there. There was an awful lot of crossover, too... so I just usually assume they were on both. (All three, really, because the ST had most of the same titles, as well).

 

Really looking back... there weren't many games from that era/those platforms that I miss. There were a bunch that had been around and were already classics that got ported (Archon, Choplifter, etc...) but for new titles... Elite was pretty good... Ports of Call. Midi Maze. Respective killer apps.

[atari_2600_master]

I thought that it looked exactly like the 2600 junior but bigger

[Tempest]

So, my first impressions on the 7800 are actually something that I recall thinking about the NES. The colors are real flat and muted. They're not as dynamic and "sparkly" as the 5200, for example. The colors look dusty, murky... filmy. Even the 2600 games seem to have more vivid hues than the 2600 (which makes me wonder why the pallette would look dusty and murky for a 7800 game, when the hardware can create, for example, vivid yellows in Atari 2600 mode).

 

I had the same initial impression. Everything on the 7800 seems dull, and flat looking. 7800 games also had a propensity for using purple and blue for some reason and it looked REALLY ugly. Mmmm... dull purple. Makes me think back to the good old EGA days when they used the same ugly ass purple.

 

Is there any reason for this? I'm guessing there's a technical reason.

 

Tempest

[atari_2600_master]

I never had a 7800 and from what I've heard off this thread I'm not getting one.

How come you said in the 2600 forum that your favourite game was Ninja Golf then?

 

it's only one game that I enjoy. I'm not going to fall in love with the 7800 for only one game

[PacManPlus]

So, my first impressions on the 7800 are actually something that I recall thinking about the NES. The colors are real flat and muted. They're not as dynamic and "sparkly" as the 5200, for example. The colors look dusty, murky... filmy. Even the 2600 games seem to have more vivid hues than the 2600 (which makes me wonder why the pallette would look dusty and murky for a 7800 game, when the hardware can create, for example, vivid yellows in Atari 2600 mode).

 

I had the same initial impression. Everything on the 7800 seems dull, and flat looking. 7800 games also had a propensity for using purple and blue for some reason and it looked REALLY ugly. Mmmm... dull purple. Makes me think back to the good old EGA days when they used the same ugly ass purple.

 

Is there any reason for this? I'm guessing there's a technical reason.

 

Tempest

 

I think it's simply because it's the colors the programmers chose. For instance, when I was hacking Pac-Man for the 7800, I found that they purposely used 'Hot Pink' for Blinky instead of red in Ms. Pac-Man (don't know why). I always thought that color was the closest they could get :-/ I fixed that in Pac-Man.

[ApolloBoy]

I never had a 7800 and from what I've heard off this thread I'm not getting one.

How come you said in the 2600 forum that your favourite game was Ninja Golf then?

 

it's only one game that I enjoy. I'm not going to fall in love with the 7800 for only one game

 

Well then, try more games. Trust me, I think you'll find the 7800 quite enjoyable...

[Paranoid]

There is a Pac Man for the 7800? Is the Rom available, or is it only available as a homebrew cart?

 

 

I'm glad someone else noticed the flat, muted colors, too.