Cuttle Cart 2 Community

[Paranoid]

I saw a post today, and responded to the guy, but it got me thinking about something. Hopefully this won't degenerate into a bunch of flames and accusations, (you know any thread that starts out like that is bound to get nasty)... but, I really want to address this issue...

 

On my attempt to acquire a CC2, the first thing I encountered was an individual who acted as if loading up and customizing a bunch of ROMS that were freely available on the Internet was a valuable service that added significant value to the asking price of his equipment. He really read me the riot act about how difficult it was to configure the Cuttle Cart 2, to track down the correct ROMs, to edit the menu system to a certain preference. He gave me dire warnings about how hard it was to find MMC cards and card readers (Staples and Best Buy took care of me without even having to resort to mail order). Honestly, at one point, I was worried that he knew something I didn't and I had painted myself into a corner. It didn't help that other people acted in a manner which suggested that what he was saying was true. I found myself thinking, "If you must have a 32mb SanDisk OEM MMC card and reader, this could be more difficult than I bargained for". I was wrong.

 

I didn't get it, though, at the time. Honestly, now that I've got one, I still don't.

 

Since then, I've asked a few questions, had a few challenges with configuration. A *lot* of people here have been *very* friendly and helpful with providing advice and files to make this a less painful experience. In fact, no one has been outright *hostile* toward me in my efforts to create my Cuttle Cart 2 library.

 

But in purusing the forums here and looking at the historical conversations over the CC2, I'm struck by how often people looking for guidance and assistance are met with indifference or outright hostility. So many people here act as if configuring a CC2 is some incredibly technical act that is highly valuable and requires archiac and advanced technical skill and knowledge. I mean, it isn't a piece of the cake, it can be manual and labor intensive and, for lack of a better word, repetative... but, it *isn't* rocket science.

 

So far, I've come up with two theories on this. One is that people are somewhat uncomfortable discussing the CC2 because of the implicit issues surrounding copyright and IP rights surrounding a device like this, especially on a forum that is hosted by a store that sells homebrews at the same time that it offers ROM images that can easily be loaded onto a device like this. I mean, AtariAge has a vested interest in seeing people buy Pac Man Arcade, for example... yet they offer the ROM image, and we all just kind of ignore the fact that an individual with a CC2 can simply download the ROM and bypass buying the cart from Atari Age. I think that Atari Age understands it's niche... the collector who wants the actual cart, with the actual packaging, instructions and label art, who probably owns a CC2 *also*. But it does seem like some Pink Elephant in the room that we all ignore and try to talk around. I *do* think this is part of the issue, though, and part of why people are so hesitant to offer any direct assistance to people looking for help with their CC2 configuration or library.

 

The second issue though, troubles me more. I think it is some sort of Uber-Nerd righteous indignation that makes people feel justified in not only ignoring requests, but showing outright hostility towards those who are making requests. It is some sense of, "I worked so hard on collecting my ROM collection and configurinig my menu, why should I just *give* you all my hard work. You should be forced to do it yourself, just like me".

 

While I can relate to feeling this way in a certain sense, it strikes me that this isn't an attitude that helps the retro community. I would *expect* to see a lot of websites with CC2 RomDB menu files, Menu.txt files, and even entire directory structures with GAMES directories loaded with roms in zipped up archives. But these really don't exist.

 

I've wondered why this exists. My only thought is that the artificially inflated prices of lots of things in this hobby create an attitude where people are looking for opportunities to capitalize on a service or product and create a niche within the retro market for themselves. It seems like a lot of people are looking to refurb joysticks, or build MAME cabinets, or clean systems, or sell ROM collections on DVD, or... whatever will help them make a buck to feed their retro game hobby. I sometimes think it is some sort of Gold Rush speculation mentallity. I think the Comic industry has suffered a bit of this, when collectors realized that the thing they kept in mint condition for 40 years might be worth tens of thousands of dollars are more, suddenly it went from a fun past-time to a thing where people weren't collecting for a passion, but for a profit. Star Wars and a number of other "collectibles" have suffered the same fate, as well as antiques in general.

 

Anyhow, I'd like to believe that at least the above, somewhat justifiable (yet still rotten human nature) rationalization for this kind of behavior is correct, because I hate to think of a bunch of people out there guarding their "precious CC2 warez" like C=64 h@X0rZ flaunting the latest 133+ cracked games that he has but won't distribute unless you have something valuable to trade.

 

So... what is it? One of the above scenarios, a little bit of each of them? How come the CC2 isn't a hub of activity and information trading here on Atari Age? It is probably the most revolutionary retro Atari product available, and the more that is discussed and shared about the product, the better it is for the community. Mostly I'm surprised that there aren't more sites that have ready to go CC2 specific ZIP packages and that everyone tip toes around the issue, but it seems like everyone knows it exists...

 

For myself, I *hate* ignoring Pink Elephants... I'd rather get the dirt right out on the table and get those uncomfortable, unspoken truths spoken. I'm not a fan of unspoken rules... and I find that the best way to get them spoken is generally to break them...

[+remowilliams]

Speaking on behalf of the Brotherhood of the Dark and Mysterious Ways of the Cuttle Cart - our knowledge is not for the minds of mortal men.

[Mayhem]

In my case, I support AA by buying some of the homebrews I feel are worth it, but at the same time, I like having the ROM to save wear and tear on the cart itself that I've bought and just use the CC2 instead. Strange but that's me. Also saves having to carry about a ton of stuff, when one cart and one MMC do the job.

 

Expect the CC2 to be used at the upcoming Eurocon this year as it'll be the easiest way for us to provide all possible 2600 and 7800 gaming

[phaxda]

I was the guy who made the original post, and Paranoid helped me a lot. So did the member who sent a nice zipped file to my Yahoo! account. I really appreciate it both of their efforts. I've only been a member off the CC2 community for a few days now, but if anyone else ever needs help, I'll be glad to give it. First piece of advice: RTFM! I have a 16 MB card and didn't know I had to reformat it first...duh.

 

Anyway, I'm a big believer in not duplicating work. In the case of the CC2 I'm not scared to do the work, I don't lack the knowledge (the manual is great), but there are mitigating circumstances (I work on a Mac, which makes it all a tad trickier). To even get started on the Mac I had to wade through some 18 pages of posts on the CC2 thread, find the menu generator program someone had compiled under OS X, try to figure out what software I need from the CD, where the ROMS go, etc... You can maybe see why I eventually just posted on the thread and asked for a disk image.

 

Bottom line is, someone sent it to me and I'm thankful for that. They've saved me some time and headache and now I can get down to the business of playing Ballblazer. With NO sound? What the?! Haahaaa. Looks like it's time to throw a POKEY chip in there. Note that I will not ask anyone else to do this for me; it's a fun task for a rainy afternoon...

 

And as for not ordering from the AA store, well, I've bought every homebrew I can get my hands on for the 5200, and a couple for the 2600. Not to mention the contributions I make to many an eBay seller. If anything, the CC2 has me MORE interested in collecting carts.

 

Just some thoughts (pre-coffee). Thanks to everyone who gave me a hand. I appreciate it--and I appreciate this community as a whole!

 

 

I saw a post today, and responded to the guy, but it got me thinking about something. Hopefully this won't degenerate into a bunch of flames and accusations, (you know any thread that starts out like that is bound to get nasty)... but, I really want to address this issue...

[Paranoid]

Check out Best Electronics for your pokey, if you didn't know already. He has them for about $6 a pop. I haven't even bothered, as there are only 3 games that take advantage of the Pokey, and they all play without it. The next time I order something, I'll probably have him throw a pokey in, too.

 

I agree completely about the convienence of the Cuttle Cart being the most important factor. I'm not rushing out to sell my collection of 5200 carts although I have every title on my Multicart as well. I'd just rather leave the individual carts in storage and play the actual games on the Multicart. The CC2 is the same deal.

 

Mostly I agree with phaxda. It seems like everyone is re-inventing the wheel every time they load up their new CC2. As I mentioned, there were several people who were very helpful to me, and I'm still using a menu.txt file someone posted here as I add ROMS here and there to my collection... I managed to track down the zip file with most on the instructions (with many of them in 40 col format) by doing google searches and searching the forums here, and people here have pointed me to sites where I could grab the 7800 roms in BIN format... I appreciate all the help everyone has provided. I'm just shocked that there aren't more web pages that contain CC2 information, files, and related information. Generally something like this, in a community like this, you just take it for granted that there are going to be a couple "everything you need and need to know" pages hosted by individuals out there on the WWW.

 

One thing that is a little disturbing. It looks like there WERE a couple sites like this... personal pages with Cuttle Cart 1 and 2 info on them... that have disappeared. I'm assuming it is just pages were the author lost interest or changed providers or whatever. I'm hoping there isn't some *other* reason they took their sites down.

[Danno]

Anybody who gets persnickety about helping with a cuttle cart 2 should be throttled with a dull Butterknife for 36 hours straight.

 

The CC2, and all of the "difficult configuration" (LOL it's got to be one of the easiest devices I've ever setup) shuld be a labor of love for anyone who spent the time.

 

I have a pretty well customized CC2 with pretty much every available rom, including most of the homebrews, and would have no problem helping anyone set their's up.

 

Seems like there's a ton of crooks/sharks who circle this site looking for ways to rip off their fellow Atarians.

 

Sad, really.

[phaxda]

I sacrificed a 7800 BallBlazer that had a beat up label and cart case. I've been saving it for years and never knew why...

 

There was NO WAY I could play this fine game without the kick-ass music.

[Mayhem]

Seems everyone has a different way to do their menu as well. Someone list them by company. Some include the control method in the text. I have them in one huge alphabetical list but with PAL and NTSC files side by side (with the only separation being the 7800 titles are at the top).

[Danno]

Seems everyone has a different way to do their menu as well. Someone list them by company. Some include the control method in the text. I have them in one huge alphabetical list but with PAL and NTSC files side by side (with the only separation being the 7800 titles are at the top).

 

I have a main menu, that links to various sub-menus. One is by company, all games. One is all games, alphabetical. One is 7800 Games only. One is 2600 Games only. And one is just the Activision games (my favorites on the 2600).

[desiv]

Wait a minute..

Who told you about the Cuttle Cart 2 Community???

 

I remember in the last CC2C meeting, the one where we laughed at all the newbies and decided on the "My IDE is edlin" bumper stickers, that we said we'd never talk about the CC2C in the forums..

 

And now this?

 

I might have to return my CC10C badge.

 

desiv

[Goochman]

Ive never responded in any CC2 area - my biggest problem is the learning curve every time I need to use it - once I got everything loaded up I havent had to go back very often and I forget the process - However its not too hard and Ive gotten good responses on AA from a variety of folks (thanks )

 

So I am a bit of a taker but would help if I could remember how to do things

[Paranoid]

Seems everyone has a different way to do their menu as well. Someone list them by company. Some include the control method in the text. I have them in one huge alphabetical list but with PAL and NTSC files side by side (with the only separation being the 7800 titles are at the top).

 

I think I've adopted your method, sans PAL titles, but it may be that I'm using a menu.txt that is labeled menu-uk.txt...

[Paranoid]

Wait a minute..

Who told you about the Cuttle Cart 2 Community???

 

I remember in the last CC2C meeting, the one where we laughed at all the newbies and decided on the "My IDE is edlin" bumper stickers, that we said we'd never talk about the CC2C in the forums..

 

And now this?

 

I might have to return my CC10C badge.

 

desiv

 

 

The first rule of CC2C is...

 

I'm Jack's sense of sarcastic outrage.

[Paranoid]

That last post got me thinking...

 

That someone would post a wry, sarcastic response implying that there *isn't* a Cuttle Cart 2 "community" (and maybe they are right)... is part of the problem.

 

If there isn't... there *should* be. If there really isn't... it is a damn shame.

[128bytes]

I do wish there was a single list (or single thread) of CC2 menu.txt settings for each hack or homebrew. A pinned topic listing these, as they come out, would be really helpful. A link to the ROM, or an attachment right there, would be great, too. It would certainly make the process of adding new items to the menu.txt, and regenerating the menu.cc2 file, much easier. Manuals could also be posted in this thread.

 

 

For example:

 

 

7800: Ultra Pac-Man ULTRAPAC HSC_32K HSC

Marble Craze	MARBLE	F4	78BIOS

[Paranoid]

That would be nice.

 

The search engine here gives a lot of false positives for me, it seems. I've had better luck finding topics here by using GOOGLE to search for keywords.

 

Which isn't a slam on this site. That is pretty much standard for almost every forum I can think of.

[phaxda]

I can say with a fair amount of certainty that there is in fact a Cuttle Cart community. My PM box was eventually overflowing with people willing to help out. Just to repeat: I am all set with the files and my CC2 is working great. I need to work on customizing the menus just how I want them and upgrading cart software, but everything is just wonderful. I can't believe I've gone for so long without this great tool--if anyone is on the fence about getting one, go for it!

[Paranoid]

I think there are a lot of very helpful people here, and I think people may have taken what I originally said wrong. I'm just shocked that other than formal reviews and a few ROM oriented sites that carry 7800 .bin files specifically for the CC2, there aren't a lot of personal web pages where people have posted their CC2 stuff.

 

I suppose this might be more of a reflection on how chilling the DMCA has been on things like this than of a lack of "community". Either way, though... the result is the same... almost all of the BEST information on the CC2 is generally going to be found by digging through the forums here. Which isn't a bad thing. I like Atari Age. I even have one of the special edition Atari Age buttons now! I'm just surprised that there isn't *more* out there.

[+remowilliams]

I suppose this might be more of a reflection on how chilling the DMCA has been on things like this than of a lack of "community".

Bingo. There's more than one reason you don't see "packages" of ROMs posted for use with the CC2...

[desiv]

I suppose this might be more of a reflection on how chilling the DMCA has been on things like this than of a lack of "community".

Bingo. There's more than one reason you don't see "packages" of ROMs posted for use with the CC2...

 

But.. You do see them, if you really look.

 

Why is search so tough for some people?

 

Just because something isn't handed to you when you ask doesn't mean it's not there if you look.

 

(Sorry, felt like a Kung Fu episode for a moment there.)

 

 

desiv

[Paranoid]

Listen, I'm constantly complaing about how people are such idiots that they'll pay some amount on eBay for a classic game item when you can find it by Google Search for the same price or less from a reputable dealer. So, I agree, there is nothing wrong with putting some effort into searching.

 

At the same time, what is this forum for, if not to come and ask questions and get answers from people who have more experience? Asking questions of people who might know is an effective PART of an effective search strategy. And if I ask here, "anyone know where I can get a zipped collection of A7800 roms in .bin format", I'm going to get a LOT less false positives than if I search in Google for... "atari 7800 rom bin -.a76"... because a human's fuzzy logic is still far superior to Google's algorithm on this kind of question.

 

As Remo pointed out, I get why people get nervous about requests for ROM images. I'm not very eager to provide a lot of support in that sense. The thing that blows me away is people who get possessive and proprietary about their menu.txt and romdb files. This is the kind of thing you would think everyone would be sharing and passing around... I'm surprised there isn't a menu.txt file that has every known rom for both systems pre-configured readily available. There are a LOT of people here who *are* very helpful with this information. But there are some people who act like it is a capital offense to ask for a preconfigured menu.txt or romdb. I personally have enjoyed making my own, but the files that WERE provided to me by other users here were invaluable and saved me countless trial and error.

 

It just surprises me that the CC2 has been out for what, a good time now, anyhow... and there isn't an exhaustive romdb or menu.txt that comes *with* the CC2 or that is easy to find. Personally, I'd never consider loading up the entire library for either console... too many duds. But I'm sure there are people who have achieved this, or nearly so.

 

*shrug*. It isn't any big deal. It is just something I've contemplated, because I don't get it.

[Mayhem]

All I'll say is that I have no problem giving someone my MENU.TXT file if they ask me for it. I won't distribute the ROMs now though, partly due to making sure people go find them on their own if they truly want them, and partly cos there's a few in there not to be distributed to the masses (I'm sure you can guess a couple straight off).

[Danno]

It just surprises me that the CC2 has been out for what, a good time now, anyhow... and there isn't an exhaustive romdb or menu.txt that comes *with* the CC2 or that is easy to find. Personally, I'd never consider loading up the entire library for either console... too many duds. But I'm sure there are people who have achieved this, or nearly so.

 

*shrug*. It isn't any big deal. It is just something I've contemplated, because I don't get it.

 

There is. The CC2 comes with a menu generator that will find and create menus for nearly every game in existence, barring some of the newer homebrews that came out after it's initial release. Also - the java menu create posted right on this board makes it easy to create custom multiple menus, provided you've upgraded your CC2 O/S to the latest version (which was posted by Chad himself).

 

It's all here. You just need to use the search feature instead of begging other people to make it easy for you.

 

I have my CC2 using multiple menus, and I have every single working rom in existence on it. I don't put the overdumps or the bad dumps because they are redundant. Finding the ROMS is actually pretty easy. But yeah - there are a ton that would become a legal hassle for Atariage.com if posted here, so for obvious reasons, they aren't. But they can be found very easily.

[phaxda]

Now, see, THIS is handy information. If I had known about the existence of a Java Menu generator, I would have searched for it...but I had no idea that one existed!

 

To save others the trouble, here ya go:

http://www.geocities.com/mot505/CC2MenuGen02.html

 

I upgraded my cc2 to the latest OS and it works like a charm.

[HammR25]

Too bad I didn't know about the Java t hing before I painstakingly made all my menus following Chad's instructions.

 

I still need to figure out why one of my menus crashes the CC2 if I try going past a certain menu item.

 

I found all the 7800 bins and 2600 bins sans homebrews just by searching this website. Sure it was a pain but I was able to find them.

 

Part of the problem is a lot of stuff is buried in the huge CC2 thread.

 

I think Chad is so foreboding in his language before you buy it because he doesn't want to deal with people who are disappointed in his product because they spent a lot of money and still can't get it to work. I can't say that I blame him mainly because Chad is only one man and can only support this stuff so much.

 

If someone wants to help by sending me ideas of questions to put on a CC2 FAQ I'd be happy to put one up on my personal webspace. The one thing I will not link to on an FAQ page are ROMS (unless I could get author permission maybe for some homebrews). If people are willing to send me their menu system to put up for download I can do that too.

 

PM me if you're interested in helping me with this.