What did someone do to my 520ST

[Asolac]

I finally got the cables to hook up my 520 ST and turn it on and there's some kind of insane TOS that I've never seen before. It's got a shimmering, color changing background of Atari symbols and keeps asking for a systems disk. The window is transparent, which I didn't know the ST could do. Is this just a really early 520 that needs TOS on disk, or did someone replace the TOS in this with something I've never heard of? Picture Attached:

 

 

Please tell me this is a falcon in a 520 case and I am the luckiest man alive

Edited May 17, 2006 by Asolac

[Rybags]

That depicts an external disk drive, so I'd guess it's a disk-booted TOS.

[Asolac]

That depicts an external disk drive, so I'd guess it's a disk-booted TOS.

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the case. It's not even an STm, just an ST. It looks pretty impressive compared to the normal ST green though.

[+DarkLord]

I finally got the cables to hook up my 520 ST and turn it on and there's some kind of insane TOS that I've never seen before. It's got a shimmering, color changing background of Atari symbols and keeps asking for a systems disk. The window is transparent, which I didn't know the ST could do. Is this just a really early 520 that needs TOS on disk, or did someone replace the TOS in this with something I've never heard of? Picture Attached:

 

 

Please tell me this is a falcon in a 520 case and I am the luckiest man alive

 

Its been a long time, and you know how you forget things, but is that possibly Kaos TOS? Any chance you can open her up and see if the TOS ROMs are labeled?

 

Here is some info:

Early single-tasking TOS replacement, originally based on a large and complex patch set for Atari TOS 1.4. Supplied on ROM as "KAOS030" and as a disk-loaded version, complete with its own desktop, KaosDesk. Faster and less bug-ridden, but incompatible with TT and Falcon. Supplied with some 68030 accelerator boards. Development stopped after release of TOS 2.06. Some parts (such as MCMD CLI shell) reused in MagiC, developed by the same author.

 

Wikipedia has this:

Extensive TOS Patch, which eliminated a whole set of errors in the Atari ST-operating system:

 

* KAOS 1,2 was published in the computer journal c't and was based on TOS 1.02.

* KAOS 1.4.2 was commercial and was based on TOS 1.04.

 

KAOS 1.4.2 repaired about 80 errors in the original system and increased the speed - main with the expenditure for diagram - by the run time optimization of some system routines.

 

As a point of criticism was maintained, the speed increase essentially comes at that time from omitting computer-bound optical effects (the so-called Grow /Shrinkboxen). By restarting these effects this prejudice could be disproved however easily.

 

Compatibility problems were present only with few programs, which could be patchen nearly all.

 

The KAOS Patches a relatively fast end was granted in each case, if official new operating system version of Atari appeared. KAOS 1,2 logical-proves displaced by TOS 1,04 and KAOS 1.4.2 of TOS 1,6, whereby one for the latter, since largely, in the ST an adapter plate needed 256 KB. Furthermore also soon the multitasking systems came for the Atari to KAOS 1.4.2.

 

Let us know if you do open it up and find out.

[doctorclu]

I finally got the cables to hook up my 520 ST and turn it on and there's some kind of insane TOS that I've never seen before. It's got a shimmering, color changing background of Atari symbols and keeps asking for a systems disk. The window is transparent, which I didn't know the ST could do. Is this just a really early 520 that needs TOS on disk, or did someone replace the TOS in this with something I've never heard of? Picture Attached:

 

 

Please tell me this is a falcon in a 520 case and I am the luckiest man alive

 

Hey, best way to go about this, first make sure there is no disk in the floppy drive (unless this is a floppyless 520 ST) and then look at the above pull down menus till you find the tab that looks up the information on the TOS and see what it says, or better yet, take a picture of that.

Very cool desktop and all

[ijor]

That is no TOS at all. It is the ROM bootstrap that shipped in the very first ST machines without TOS in ROM.

 

You can download several floppy based TOS images from the net. But unless RAM was expanded on that machine (very unlikely), you won't be able to do much. You'll have very few RAM available.

 

It would still be very interesting to dump that ROM for preservation purposes.

[+DarkLord]

That is no TOS at all. It is the ROM bootstrap that shipped in the very first ST machines without TOS in ROM.

 

You can download several floppy based TOS images from the net. But unless RAM was expanded on that machine (very unlikely), you won't be able to do much. You'll have very few RAM available.

 

It would still be very interesting to dump that ROM for preservation purposes.

 

Wow. I've never even seen desktop pictures from an ST that early.

 

BTW, if it is that early of a version, would he have 512k memory or 256? If its 512, couldn't he just have the TOS ROMs updated,

then have the same basic performance as a standard 520ST?

[Rybags]

It would have 512K RAM but probably ~ 220K free once TOS, screen and other overhead comes out.

 

Wasn't the 260ST only released in limited markets for a short time (e.g. Eastern Euro) ? And I would imagine it must have a ROM-based TOS.

[jens]

That is no TOS at all. It is the ROM bootstrap that shipped in the very first ST machines without TOS in ROM.

That's the first thing I thought of when I saw the picture though I've never seen the TOS 1.00 disk version before.

It would still be very interesting to dump that ROM for preservation purposes.

I'd like to have a copy for testing purposes. Would be fun to use it under PaCifiST trying to boot several TOS versions and also to give MagC a try.

[Junosix]

Wow! I've always wanted to see that screen. It's actually quite pretty, in its own way.

 

But yeah - even better would be if this ROM could be dumped!

[tjlazer]

Blame Jack Tramiel!! lol Yeah I have one too. Its the 520ST non m version (no modulator) with TOS boot roms (kinda like the Amiga 1000) It is pretty neat to see, but unusable as there is only ~200k left after TOS loads!!! lol

Edited May 19, 2006 by tjlazer

[+remowilliams]

That is no TOS at all. It is the ROM bootstrap that shipped in the very first ST machines without TOS in ROM.

That's exactly what I thought when I saw that screen

 

The very first ST I ever saw and used was one of 520's with floppy TOS.

[jens]

I wonder if it would be possible to use it for directly loading up MagiC...

[ijor]

I wonder if it would be possible to use it for directly loading up MagiC...

 

There is nothing special in that ROM for booting disks. It boots a disk as any other ROM. If the disk is not bootable, then it won’t. The only difference is that booting a disk is the only thing that this ROM can do.

 

TOS on disk are just boot disks with a loader and a RAM based TOS image.

[Womble76]

Wasn't the 260ST only released in limited markets for a short time (e.g. Eastern Euro) ? And I would imagine it must have a ROM-based TOS.

 

The 260 was released worldwide I think, but they were only launched at all to use up the stock of boards and cases at the time Atari was moving to the STF and STFM format machines. They were advertised as game machines (the STFMs were advertised as serious use machines originally) and did come with 512K of ram and TOS onboard.

 

There was a prototype ST that was called the 260ST and it did have 256K of RAM but it was never sold to the public, it was next to useless as TOS didnt leave much free RAM and the price of RAM had dropped enough during the dev of the ST that the base spec was raised to 512K.

 

Hey - does anyone know if later models do the above if they have their TOS chips removed?

Edited May 19, 2006 by Womble76

[jens]

I wonder if it would be possible to use it for directly loading up MagiC...

 

There is nothing special in that ROM for booting disks. It boots a disk as any other ROM. If the disk is not bootable, then it won’t. The only difference is that booting a disk is the only thing that this ROM can do.

 

TOS on disk are just boot disks with a loader and a RAM based TOS image.

Ok - other way round:

Would MagiC allow to be booted in that way as well?

That's the point which I'm interested in.

[ijor]

Hey - does anyone know if later models do the above if they have their TOS chips removed?

 

No, the machine will hang completely because it won't have any program to run at power-up/reset.

 

To get the above screen, you would need to replace your TOS with that ROM.

[ijor]

Hi Jens,

 

Ok - other way round:

Would MagiC allow to be booted in that way as well?

That's the point which I'm interested in.

 

Sorry, don't know, I'm not familiar wtih MagiC at all. But I suppose you should be able to do it.

[jens]

MagiC tends to be a bit special about booting - don't think one had big use of booting it off floppy but I'd just like to know it.

[Asolac]

I'll do what I can to get a copy of the rom, but the problem that I've run into lately is that the only floppy drive I have is an SF354, so I can't use any of my disks with my PC. I've got a spare 520 with rom tos that I've been playing with, and a parts-1040 (I've tried to use the disk drive from the 1040 in the 354 case to no avail), but since I don't have a double-sided drive, I can't make disks or transfer any kind of information between the ST and my PC.

 

So I guess I'm in the market for one, preferably less than $30 max. Anyone interested in selling a 314?

 

This is definetely a 520ST, not an STm, and I don't think they released the 260 in the US. You can't click any of the menus. I figured it was the disk-boot TOS but I'll open it up sometime soon to take a peek at the hardware, just out of curiosity.

 

EDIT: Keyboard indicates that this was made on 7-17-85. The metal interference shield (or whatever this is) is much thicker than I've seen on other ST systems that I've opened. I'll attach a picture of the rom sockets.

 

Anyone know if I might be able to scavenge the ram from this to put into my other st, once I get the rom copied? I don't have much use for a spare 520, I'd rather take the chance of messing up both of them and then just get a new 1040 if I do.

Edited May 21, 2006 by Asolac

[+DarkLord]

I'll do what I can to get a copy of the rom, but the problem that I've run into lately is that the only floppy drive I have is an SF354, so I can't use any of my disks with my PC. I've got a spare 520 with rom tos that I've been playing with, and a parts-1040 (I've tried to use the disk drive from the 1040 in the 354 case to no avail), but since I don't have a double-sided drive, I can't make disks or transfer any kind of information between the ST and my PC.

 

So I guess I'm in the market for one, preferably less than $30 max. Anyone interested in selling a 314?

 

This is definetely a 520ST, not an STm, and I don't think they released the 260 in the US. You can't click any of the menus. I figured it was the disk-boot TOS but I'll open it up sometime soon to take a peek at the hardware, just out of curiosity.

 

EDIT: Keyboard indicates that this was made on 7-17-85. The metal interference shield (or whatever this is) is much thicker than I've seen on other ST systems that I've opened. I'll attach a picture of the rom sockets.

 

Anyone know if I might be able to scavenge the ram from this to put into my other st, once I get the rom copied? I don't have much use for a spare 520, I'd rather take the chance of messing up both of them and then just get a new 1040 if I do.

 

Hmm, am I seeing that picture right? Its got the 6 socket setup, with 2 TOS ROMs in place?

 

Seems to me you could just stick in TOS 1.04 and have an updated TOS, etc, etc,...

 

Just a thought.

[Rybags]

Shouldn't the PC read an SS disk OK? If you use a "PC-compatible format" utility on the ST, it should set the #sides flag so that it reads correctly.

[+DarkLord]

Shouldn't the PC read an SS disk OK? If you use a "PC-compatible format" utility on the ST, it should set the #sides flag so that it reads correctly.

 

I guess he's talking about Windows XP?

 

I don't use/have it (ugh!), but seems like I've heard others

say its picky about what format it will read. Maybe high

density (1.44) only, or something like that?

 

Maybe someone who uses Windog XP here can tell us.

[Asolac]

Hmm, am I seeing that picture right? Its got the 6 socket setup, with 2 TOS ROMs in place?

 

Seems to me you could just stick in TOS 1.04 and have an updated TOS, etc, etc,...

 

Just a thought.

 

I might do that with the TOS in my parts-1040, but I'll wait untill after I an get a dump of the roms. I'm not in immediate need of another 520 so there's no hurry.

 

Shouldn't the PC read an SS disk OK? If you use a "PC-compatible format" utility on the ST, it should set the #sides flag so that it reads correctly.

 

I can't use a PC-compatable format utility because I can't use a double sided disk to get the information from the PC to the ST. I can't use a disk formatted on the PC because it automatically spreads the data across both sides for some reason. It's a vicious cycle.

 

XP can read and write to 720K disks, and can format them if you use the DOS-based format tool, but it can't format single-sided disks. I don't think any system made for the last decade can. I don't even think I can read them on the PC. As I understand it, the drive would get confused by the lack of formatting on the second side.

 

Nobody has an extra Double-sided drive they can sell me? I'll throw in the 354 with payment for good measure, so you're not left without a second drive. I've got a hard disk coming in the mail soon, so I shouldn't need two floppy drives.

[ijor]

XP can read and write to 720K disks, and can format them if you use the DOS-based format tool, but it can't format single-sided disks. I don't think any system made for the last decade can. I don't even think I can read them on the PC.

 

The limitation is in Windows, it has nothing to do with the drive mechanism. If you can boot Win 9X or plain old DOS, you can use Makedisk (or other similar utility) to read and write single sided disk. You can also do that under Linux.

 

Actually, you can even under Windows. But you need one of those special floppy utilities that have their own floppy kernel driver.

 

I agree that getting a double-sided drive is the real solution though.