The BEST 8 Bit Gaming Computer

[thomasholzer]

To celebrate the "REAL" winner, the Apple ][ with 20.000 software titles (16.000 by 1985, approx 20.000+ by 1992).........(some fool here wrote the Apple ][ was 'never cut out for games'? What planet was he from? World of Spectrum perhaps), here's the article from (actually it was the) March 1985 edition of EG, by the main man, Arnie Katz:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2006 by thomasholzer

[Cybergoth]

To celebrate the "REAL" winner, the Apple ][ with 20.000 software titles (16.000 by 1985, approx 20.000+ by 1992).........

 

If you'd actually read the article, you'll notice that only half of the 16.000 "software titles" are games.

 

some fool here wrote the Apple ][ was 'never cut out for games'?

 

And if you read some further into it, you'll find this detailed in the article as well.

 

Besides, the title "BEST 8 Bit Gaming Computer" probably won't solely be defined over the pure number of titles. It simply was no gaming machine by design, just like a CGA MS-DOS computer.

[Josh]

APPLE 2!

[MacbthPSW]

To celebrate the "REAL" winner, the Apple ][ with 20.000 software titles (16.000 by 1985, approx 20.000+ by 1992)

If you'd actually *read* the article you just posted here, you'd see that just "over half" of those 16,000 titles are games. And where did you pull the 20,000 figure from for 1992?

 

gb64.com has searchable proof that the C64 is the clear winner, if number of games is all that counts (though I don't think that's the case).

 

.........(some fool here wrote the Apple ][ was 'never cut out for games'? What planet was he from? World of Spectrum perhaps)

That "fool" actually wrote the most reasoned and accurate post I've seen in this thread. The Apple II is clearly not cut out for games - it's lacking sprites, hardware smooth scrolling, decent sound... like the Spectrum, a large number of (good) games were produced for it *despite* it's video/sound capabilities.

Edited August 16, 2006 by MacbthPSW

[BrianC]

To celebrate the "REAL" winner, the Apple ][ with 20.000 software titles (16.000 by 1985, approx 20.000+ by 1992).........

 

If you'd actually read the article, you'll notice that only half of the 16.000 "software titles" are games.

 

Also, many of those games are on other computers too. Come to think of it, many of the titles listed in the article are also on C64.

[Matt_B]

To celebrate the "REAL" winner, the Apple ][ with 20.000 software titles (16.000 by 1985, approx 20.000+ by 1992).........(some fool here wrote the Apple ][ was 'never cut out for games'? What planet was he from? World of Spectrum perhaps), here's the article from (actually it was the) March 1985 edition of EG, by the main man, Arnie Katz:

 

Touche!

 

Like others have said, the article pretty much admits that it's not an ideal game machine on the first page. And do you honestly think any of the arcade-style games match up to the best the other computers in the poll could offer in 85? Given the comparatively slow CPU and the lack of much in the way of game-oriented hardware features, that's only to be expected though.

 

The main strength of the Apple II gaming market by that stage was obviously in strategy and adventure games. I happen to like them a lot myself, but it's fairly plain that they're largely irrelevant to the capabilities of the hardware that's running them and could be ported fairly cheaply to anything that had enough RAM and a disk drive. As such, I don't think you could count them as particularly supportive of one machine over another.

 

As to the idea that it could simply come down to the number of games, I'll go for quality over quantity anytime.

[pocketmego]

You're supposed to just blow the bloody DOORS off!!!

 

<<Shut it you muppet. Cor blimey, luv a duck... >>

 

That's more like it , guys. I mean if you wreck my fasley created stereotypes, what do you leave me with?

 

 

 

There used to be this AESOME spy show on in the 70's and 80's called the Sandbaggers. Great shot on video Beeb show, and one of the characters was supposed to be an American CIA agent. This actor that played him was clearly an Englishman and played the part so over the top, it was hilarious. Whenever he came on screen my roomate would do this really over the top impression of him...

 

"Hi Ray, would ya like a Hotdog or a good old can of All American soda?"

 

-Ray

[pocketmego]

To celebrate the "REAL" winner, the Apple ][ with 20.000 software titles (16.000 by 1985, approx 20.000+ by 1992).........

 

If you'd actually read the article, you'll notice that only half of the 16.000 "software titles" are games.

 

Also, many of those games are on other computers too. Come to think of it, many of the titles listed in the article are also on C64.

 

The C64 was SO big that MOST major titles would be produced for it either first or in tandem with other systems. I read a copy of EA's original launch proposal and their entire first year or two of success HINGED on the C64.

 

-Ray

[psj3809]

Wheres the great programming legend Mr Kizza gone ??

 

His birthdays back to 1977 again on his profile so thats all very confusing

 

I'm looking forward to his next post on how he was the main developer on Doom, Half Life II and most of the X Box 360 titles

[pocketmego]

Wheres the great programming legend Mr Kizza gone ??

 

His birthdays back to 1977 again on his profile so thats all very confusing

 

I'm looking forward to his next post on how he was the main developer on Doom, Half Life II and most of the X Box 360 titles

 

He hasn't posted anything further and we've managed to have some pretty good topic related discussion the last page or so. Maybe, we should keep it that way and let that other business go.

 

-Ray

[The_Laird]

Edited February 11, 2007 by mr.kizza

[Computer_Classics]

Unlike the WOS guys I have a life . . . . .

 

A fake one ...

Edited August 17, 2006 by Computer_Classics

[The_Laird]

Edited February 11, 2007 by mr.kizza

[thomasholzer]

And don't forget, in the USA, gaming titles came out for Apple ][ first, and later converted to other computers (read this thread for my earlier ramblings, I give a perfect example of some SSI catalogues 89/90 (and that's late 80s, and titles still came out on Apple ][ first)).

 

And GB64 is no proof, they count 1000s of BDCK, 1000s of PCS, 1000s of SEUCK, loads of Lode Runner home-made screens. They're self-made and don't count.

(On the other hand, if you want to include those, then you can add at least 5000 more titles for the Apple ][, as Apple ][ had the most Construction Kit titles).

Edited August 17, 2006 by thomasholzer

[Cybergoth]

Unlike the WOS guys I have a life . . . . .

 

Actually I was hoping that you'd rather do something else for the next half a year or so, like hiding under a rock

 

Consider this: One more message from you like that, especially in this thread, and I'll make sure it was your last one on this board.

[Lord Helmet]

Wow, this thread got derailed since I posted way back on page 1...but I have to say...seeing someone get busted fo rlying is one of the funniest things I've seen in a while

[MacbthPSW]

You've totally ignored what we pointed out - the very article you posted as proof completely contradicts most of your claims.

 

And don't forget, in the USA, gaming titles came out for Apple ][ first, and later converted to other computers (read this thread for my earlier ramblings, I give a perfect example of some SSI catalogues 89/90 (and that's late 80s, and titles still came out on Apple ][ first)).

A tiny minority of titles were being produced first on the Apple II in the mid to late 80s.

 

And GB64 is no proof, they count 1000s of BDCK, 1000s of PCS, 1000s of SEUCK, loads of Lode Runner home-made screens. They're self-made and don't count.

(On the other hand, if you want to include those, then you can add at least 5000 more titles for the Apple ][, as Apple ][ had the most Construction Kit titles).

Subtract all the game construction titles from GB64, and you're still left with well over 10,000 titles that have actually been preserved and documented - clear, undeniable evidence of the huge games library that exists for the C64.

 

On the Apple II, you've stooped to mis-representing one magazine article from 1985 that doesn't even have any sources. Go collect more than 10,000 unique Apple II titles, and then you'll have something to base your argument on. Until then, it's just speculation, and in my opinion, fantasy.

[thomasholzer]

You forgot that important gaming magazines like EG (and CGW, coming to think of it) are more valid than any website.

[MacbthPSW]

You forgot that important gaming magazines like EG (and CGW, coming to think of it) are more valid than any website.

I can only hope you're joking...

 

You realize that GB64 doesn't only list the games, but actually has each of them available for download? Like, you can sit at your computer and try out each game one by one. You can play 30 different games a day for a whole year, and see for yourself if it's all some big conspiracy.

 

Another reason I think the C-64 is the best 8-bit gaming computer is that every single 8-bit game genre is very well represented on it. Everything from the best RPGs, to nearly every type of sport you can imagine, to NES style platformers, to war/strategy games, all the classics. I think this is due to it having very strong support on both sides of the Atlantic, while the e.g. Apple and Spectrum were only well supported on one side or the other. I'd think the A8 comes second only to the C-64 in terms of diversity.

[Matt_B]

You forgot that important gaming magazines like EG (and CGW, coming to think of it) are more valid than any website.

I can only hope you're joking...

 

You realize that GB64 doesn't only list the games, but actually has each of them available for download? Like, you can sit at your computer and try out each game one by one. You can play 30 different games a day for a whole year, and see for yourself if it's all some big conspiracy.

 

Yep, I'll take games that I can actually download and play over a magazine statistic any day.

 

Another reason I think the C-64 is the best 8-bit gaming computer is that every single 8-bit game genre is very well represented on it. Everything from the best RPGs, to nearly every type of sport you can imagine, to NES style platformers, to war/strategy games, all the classics. I think this is due to it having very strong support on both sides of the Atlantic, while the e.g. Apple and Spectrum were only well supported on one side or the other. I'd think the A8 comes second only to the C-64 in terms of diversity.

 

I mentioned it before, but I think the C64 had a bit of an Achilles heel when it came to 3D games due to the slower CPU. When you look at cross-platform ones they almost always ran significantly faster on the Atari, Amstrad and Spectrum. Also, did any particularly good ones originate on the machine? The Atari had Mercenary, the BBC had The Sentinel/Elite, and the Spectrum had Tau Ceti/Starstrike II as obvious examples.

 

Also, whilst there might not have been quite so many games for the Atari, Amstrad and Spectrum, I think there are good examples for all of them in the genres you mention. Even though there weren't many people in America developing for the latter two machines, a lot of games made it on to them eventually as there was a veritable industry involved in licensing and converting them. That said, they often took a couple of years to make it over and many were ruined in the process.

[thomasholzer]

Oh don't get me wrong, personally I also believe the C-64 is better, as I own a C-128 (not as good as XE though). I just go by facts.

 

On a different note, there exists also a Apple ][ download site, which is here: http://www.virtualapple.org/

 

Mind you, they are far from completion yet, 1000 titles only for downloading, but it's a beginning (long way to 16.000!)

Edited August 17, 2006 by thomasholzer

[www.atarimania.com]

Even if you count the myriad of programs released in the early days and the wealth of educational games, you'll never reach 16,000 titles for the Apple... The C64 clearly has the highest number of games, followed by the Spectrum, the Apple and the A8...

 

--

Atari Frog

http://www.atarimania.com

[Matt_B]

Even if you count the myriad of programs released in the early days and the wealth of educational games, you'll never reach 16,000 titles for the Apple... The C64 clearly has the highest number of games, followed by the Spectrum, the Apple and the A8...

 

--

Atari Frog

http://www.atarimania.com

 

I suspect the only way you'd get 16000 titles for the Apple was if you counted every piece of CP/M software (which it could run via a hardware emulator) ever released towards the total. Since the Spectrum, Amstrad and the C128 could also run CP/M, you could similarly bump up the numbers for them too.

[thomasholzer]

Spectrum more than Apple ][? In your dreams.

[www.atarimania.com]

Spectrum more than Apple ][? In your dreams.

Tell me why it seems so unrealistic then...

 

--

Atari Frog

http://www.atarimania.com