doctorclu Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 One for me (so I can preserve the Proto-type) Anyone considering this... if you like the Atari 800, you'll LOVE this addition to the 800. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEtalGuy66 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 (edited) Or more importantly.. If you like the 130XE... But can't bare the thought of giving up the 800... This will let you have the best of both in one machine. Edited February 4, 2009 by MEtalGuy66 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 If this board can be converted easily for use in a 400 then I would order 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spookt Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Yeah I'd grab one (shipping to the UK). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roydea6 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Yes, I will buy one also. Two if the price isn't to high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirage Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I'd probably take one of these too. I have 2 800's, so I could upgrade 1 and leave the other stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 I think this may have been answered before, but I just want to make sure. This mod takes away all 800 compatibility right? You can't use ports 3 and 4 and any games that won't work on the XL/XE still won't work. Basically you're turning the 800 into an XL type machine right? If true, then I suppose you'll have to use the translator disk or disable the cover switch so you can take the translator cartridge out without the machine shutting off. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogstar_robot Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I think this may have been answered before, but I just want to make sure. This mod takes away all 800 compatibility right? You can't use ports 3 and 4 and any games that won't work on the XL/XE still won't work. Basically you're turning the 800 into an XL type machine right? If true, then I suppose you'll have to use the translator disk or disable the cover switch so you can take the translator cartridge out without the machine shutting off. Tempest It's been answered elsewhere in one of the threads on this but that is true. However the part of the upgrade that connects to the inside of the machine can be unplugged from the new personality boards and the old RAM boards put back in to make the machine behave as a normal 800 again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEtalGuy66 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 (edited) I think this may have been answered before, but I just want to make sure. This mod takes away all 800 compatibility right? You can't use ports 3 and 4 and any games that won't work on the XL/XE still won't work. Basically you're turning the 800 into an XL type machine right? If true, then I suppose you'll have to use the translator disk or disable the cover switch so you can take the translator cartridge out without the machine shutting off. Tempest Yes.. the PIA PORTB registers are now used for extended ram banking (just like the XL/XE) and so no programs can read the state of Joystick ports 3 & 4 there... I believe the prototype that warerat has is equivelant to a 576k XE with full support for separate ANTIC/CPU access to extended ram. As far as I know, this is the design he plans to use for the production board. As Warerat said earlier in this thread, should the situation arise that you desire to return your 800 to "stock configuration" (either temporarily or permanently), you just un-plug a single "ribbon cable", un-plug the upgrade boards, and re-install your stock 800 personality & RAM cards.. I'm not sure about translator operation.. Some custom OSes have the translator "built in".. Originally, I know he was using a "slightly modified" version of the XL/XE OS. If this is still the case, any alternative OS you choose to run would also have to include these "modifications".. But without the "translator" functions built into the OS, I would assume that what you said regarding Translator Operation is probably the case.. Edited February 4, 2009 by MEtalGuy66 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I think this may have been answered before, but I just want to make sure. This mod takes away all 800 compatibility right? You can't use ports 3 and 4 and any games that won't work on the XL/XE still won't work. Basically you're turning the 800 into an XL type machine right? If true, then I suppose you'll have to use the translator disk or disable the cover switch so you can take the translator cartridge out without the machine shutting off. Tempest It's mentioned somewhere else in one of the threads that it will also support the 32-in-1 OS. So unless you need 4 joystick ports you can turn your 800 with XL compatability back into an 800 but with two joystick ports Then you could use a multijoy 8 to get the missing joystick ports back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEtalGuy66 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I think this may have been answered before, but I just want to make sure. This mod takes away all 800 compatibility right? You can't use ports 3 and 4 and any games that won't work on the XL/XE still won't work. Basically you're turning the 800 into an XL type machine right? If true, then I suppose you'll have to use the translator disk or disable the cover switch so you can take the translator cartridge out without the machine shutting off. Tempest It's mentioned somewhere else in one of the threads that it will also support the 32-in-1 OS. So unless you need 4 joystick ports you can turn your 800 with XL compatability back into an 800 but with two joystick ports Then you could use a multijoy 8 to get the missing joystick ports back If that is the case, then he must have made changes to the hardware so that the previously mentioned "slight modifications" to the OS are no longer necessary.. But I can not speak authoratively on this. WareRat typically checks this forum some time in the afternoon, so he can clear up this issue when he gets on later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I'd like one when it's ready. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+warerat Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 With the upgrade board plugged in, even though you physically have four ports, you can only use two. Any 800 OS-B software will not run. This is running a XL/XE memory map with the XL/XE OS. Any software incompatibilities or limitations you have with the XL/XE you will have with this so you'll need a translator. Likewise, you can't use 800 Slot 3 accessory cards that remap ROM into $C000-$CFFF (you can however, still access hardware space from $D5XX and $D6XX in that slot). Can't have both configs active at the same time-- they are mutually exclusive. The only thing unaffected (and unique to this setup) that you can still use a paddle in port 3 with trigger, and a paddle in port 4 without the trigger (pressing fire on port 4 will hang the OS, because it will think you pulled the cartridge out). You'd have to read POKEY directly however, and not the shadows. PORTB is simulated in the CPLD and disabled on the real PIA- there is no physical connection to the PIA so plugging in joysticks in ports 3/4 and wiggling them around won't crash this. Multijoy overcomes this anyway. In a nutshell, you are plugging in a single board that is logically an expanded 130XE memory system with four jumper selectable memory configurations into the personality slot. Only thing physically missing from the conversion is a HELP key. All the logic for PBI is there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNIXcoffee928 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Beautiful work on this project! All the logic for PBI is there too. If you haven't finalized the board design yet, a header that would allow for a ribbon cable to come out from the back of the whole 800 hatch would probably be considered a desirable option for PBI interfacing. No Pepperidge Farm necessary, hopefully. = ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted February 5, 2009 Author Share Posted February 5, 2009 Beautiful work on this project! All the logic for PBI is there too. If you haven't finalized the board design yet, a header that would allow for a ribbon cable to come out from the back of the whole 800 hatch would probably be considered a desirable option for PBI interfacing. No Pepperidge Farm necessary, hopefully. = ) Is it possible to hack a PBI into the 800? I didn't think it had all the signals necessary. That would be the ultimate setup though... Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+poobah Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Beautiful work on this project! All the logic for PBI is there too. If you haven't finalized the board design yet, a header that would allow for a ribbon cable to come out from the back of the whole 800 hatch would probably be considered a desirable option for PBI interfacing. No Pepperidge Farm necessary, hopefully. = ) Is it possible to hack a PBI into the 800? I didn't think it had all the signals necessary. That would be the ultimate setup though... Tempest I wonder how much of the PBI is on the 'hidden' internal edge connector at the rear of the motherboard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almost Rice Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I wonder how much of the PBI is on the 'hidden' internal edge connector at the rear of the motherboard Probably similar the 1200xl PBI board from Metalguy, Cart slot + 10 pins. I wonder if it would work off the right cart slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEtalGuy66 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I wonder how much of the PBI is on the 'hidden' internal edge connector at the rear of the motherboard Probably similar the 1200xl PBI board from Metalguy, Cart slot + 10 pins. I wonder if it would work off the right cart slot. Actually.. You dont even need that.. As WareRat already stated, the upgrade board design already includes all the necessary logic for a PBI.. Both the MIO and BLACKBOX have a standard 50-pin header (just like a SCSI connector) on their PBI bus.. If warerat provides the same 50 pin header, somewhere on the upgrade board, you could literally use a standard 50 pin SCSI cable to go from the XE-800-Upgrade Board, out of the machine, to the MIO or BLACKBOX.. Theres really no need for an XTNDR like the one for the XE, or the 1200XL-PBI upgrade.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sup8pdct Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 OK, I won't deny it. I'm guilty of being lazy on this. The design is finished and I have yet to find any XL/XE software that doesn't run on it (ANTIC mode, extended RAM, etc). Best way to go on this I think is to finish laying out the board and get an estimate for the parts. Ideally I'd like to make a run of 30-50 so the price point isn't high for everyone. And maybe offer some kind of installation service for those who don't want to open up their machine and solder wires. You could of course go back to stock by unplugging the connector and using the original 800 cards again. I'd just need a show of hands as to how many I need to make. PCBs would be provided fully assembled and tested-- you'd just have to solder in the wiring harness for those of you DIYers. Yes please. Mine is PAL. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roydea6 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Yes I would like to have one of these boards also.. Most definitily if it will drive my Black Box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEtalGuy66 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 (edited) Actually.. You dont even need that.. As WareRat already stated, the upgrade board design already includes all the necessary logic for a PBI.. Both the MIO and BLACKBOX have a standard 50-pin header (just like a SCSI connector) on their PBI bus.. If warerat provides the same 50 pin header, somewhere on the upgrade board, you could literally use a standard 50 pin SCSI cable to go from the XE-800-Upgrade Board, out of the machine, to the MIO or BLACKBOX.. Theres really no need for an XTNDR like the one for the XE, or the 1200XL-PBI upgrade.. One thing I'll add to this, just to make things perfectly clear and not to cause any misunderstandings: SHould WareRat decide to provide such a "PBI Header" on the upgrade board, this may increase the number of "installation wires" For the upgrade board, itself, in order to have the "PBI header" fully enabled. WareRat only stated that the Upgrade board has the logic to create the extra "PBI signals" that the 800 does not have... He never said that ALL of the signals neccesary for the PBI port are present on the upgrade board, itself.. One possibility is to go ahead and add the 50 pin "PBI Header," and add the needed extra pins in the "Installation Header" (the place that the ribbon of wires which must be soldered to points inside the machine plugs in). These extra pins could be optionally hooked up or not, depending on whether you wanted the "PBI Header" enabled.. I know this is a feature that WareRat would LIKE to have.. We are obviously both fans of the MIO... Whether or not there is space on the board for the additional headers and traces to do this, I cannot say because I am not the one doing the board layout... He is.. Edited February 5, 2009 by MEtalGuy66 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 As Warerat said earlier in this thread, should the situation arise that you desire to return your 800 to "stock configuration" (either temporarily or permanently), you just un-plug a single "ribbon cable", un-plug the upgrade boards, and re-install your stock 800 personality & RAM cards.. I forgot to ask this, but is there any way to wire up a switch to shut off the board and return to the base 800 without having to yank out the boards? I assume not because you actually have to remove the 800 OS board to insert this new one. I was hoping there was a way they could exist side by side, but that would probably require too much work for little gain. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+warerat Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 As Warerat said earlier in this thread, should the situation arise that you desire to return your 800 to "stock configuration" (either temporarily or permanently), you just un-plug a single "ribbon cable", un-plug the upgrade boards, and re-install your stock 800 personality & RAM cards.. I forgot to ask this, but is there any way to wire up a switch to shut off the board and return to the base 800 without having to yank out the boards? I assume not or it would have been mentioned by now. Tempest Heh, NOW you tell me this as I'm laying out a board for the current design? To be honest, I had planned a V2.0 with that same functionality. The answer is both yes and no. No, I can't with the design in the current state because I'm all out of pins. But yes, it can be done. I could make a few concessions and be able to *just* about do it assuming I wanted to keep using the current CPLD, but I'd still need to add some additional external logic. Not a biggie, but it's that I'm one of those types that like to pack all the functionality into one IC. I'm not too deep in the PCB phase where I couldn't rework it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 As Warerat said earlier in this thread, should the situation arise that you desire to return your 800 to "stock configuration" (either temporarily or permanently), you just un-plug a single "ribbon cable", un-plug the upgrade boards, and re-install your stock 800 personality & RAM cards.. I forgot to ask this, but is there any way to wire up a switch to shut off the board and return to the base 800 without having to yank out the boards? I assume not or it would have been mentioned by now. Tempest Heh, NOW you tell me this as I'm laying out a board for the current design? To be honest, I had planned a V2.0 with that same functionality. The answer is both yes and no. No, I can't with the design in the current state because I'm all out of pins. But yes, it can be done. I could make a few concessions and be able to *just* about do it assuming I wanted to keep using the current CPLD, but I'd still need to add some additional external logic. Not a biggie, but it's that I'm one of those types that like to pack all the functionality into one IC. I'm not too deep in the PCB phase where I couldn't rework it. I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting 800 compatibility at the flick of a switch, but I wouldn't want to cause you any hardship. Personally I would rate an 800 compatibility mode as a much higher want than having everything one one IC. That's just me though, maybe others have a different opinion. To me this would make the ultimate Atari 8-bit machine. XL/XE functionality in an 800 case plus 800 compatiblity for those programs that need it. Other than the lack of a PBI, I can't think of anything else someone could want. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 800 compatibility switch would be a nice addition if it is not too difficult a task to add, and doesn't take too long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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