ACE80-XL?

[dwhyte]

If you guys are looking for a software 80 column solution with decent looking text, try out J.D. Casten's EASY80... It has the best looking text I've seen for 80 columns on an A8 other than the XEP80...

[cas]

 

now we "just" need to write a driver.....

 

Carsten

 

I hate to ask, because I won't be any help with writing drivers.... but what are the chances of this actually working? The Atari is one of the few 8 bit computers that can have it's text display redirected to other video hardware. I'm guessing that in order for this to work, the USB hardware/drivers needs to be far enough along, and a handler (E:) to be written. I think it would be neet to have a VGA monitor as an 80 column text display for DOS and other programs that can use it, and maybe a few programs (a terminal emulator for one) that took further advantage of the VGA hardware, maybe allowing color/fonts/simple graphics. I'm hoping that sticking the USB2VGA adaptor in 80x25 text mode might not be so tough. Any thoughts on how close we might be to this right now??

 

I would guess it's about 4-5 full days of work to get a 80x25 text screen and an E: - Driver for that. Adding color is then not a big problem. Another 3-4 days would be needed to write an adapted S: driver for bitmap graphics modes. VGA 320x200x256 might be interesting. The problem is that I can only spare 2-3 days/month to my various projects, including USB driver. SIO2USB and volksForth release has priority right now.

 

Carsten

[ataridano]

 

I would guess it's about 4-5 full days of work to get a 80x25 text screen and an E: - Driver for that. Adding color is then not a big problem. Another 3-4 days would be needed to write an adapted S: driver for bitmap graphics modes. VGA 320x200x256 might be interesting. The problem is that I can only spare 2-3 days/month to my various projects, including USB driver. SIO2USB and volksForth release has priority right now.

 

Carsten

 

I understand, I have way too many projects going on at the same time too (and I think you're getting them done faster than I am). Am I correct to assume that SIO2USB would need to be released in order to connect the VGA adaptor in the first place? I'm not familar with the S: handler, does this redirect Antic commands or is it used in addition to standard 8-bit graphics? I'd be glad to just have 80x25 black and white text just to get the project going! Thanks for all the effort you've put into this!

[Heaven/TQA]

writing drivers for atari is a concept ("devise handler") which is really a killer back in 1979... it is so easy to implement new handlers... everybody who had tried that once will appreciate that what the guys of the OS team have think about it back in those days... its one of the things which really looks "not hacked together" to me... no IRQ hacking... just hang your driver into HATABS-table and programm the commands which the new handler should accept... the user uses the new driver like any other device from OS... very very good concept imho.

[cas]

I understand, I have way too many projects going on at the same time too (and I think you're getting them done faster than I am). Am I correct to assume that SIO2USB would need to be released in order to connect the VGA adaptor in the first place?

 

No, SIO2USB is to attached USB Storage Devices (USB Flash Sticks and Harddrives) seamlessly on that Atari using the SIO Port, no additional drivers on the Atari Side needed. For the USB2VGA Adapter, I'll use the Atari USB Cart (available at AtariMax), which is available for 2 years now.

 

I'm not familar with the S: handler, does this redirect Antic commands or is it used in addition to standard 8-bit graphics? I'd be glad to just have 80x25 black and white text just to get the project going! Thanks for all the effort you've put into this!

 

The S: Handler is the Atari Screen handler, It is a "brother" of the E: handler, it handles all the Graphics modes. So if you call "GRAPHICS 8", it will use the S: Handler to call a piece of code in the OS ROM to initialized the ANTIC Mode for GR. 8 Display List), reserve the Screen Memory. It is also responsible for the Plot, Drawto and Fill commands.

 

It is possible to write a new or extended (using partly the old) S: handler, it just hooks into the normal Handler table HATABS, and all BASIC Graphics commands as well as other programming languages using CIO to enable Graphics (like ACTION!, TurboBasic XL, Logo, some Forth) will be seamlessly use the new handler. With a new handler it is possible to seamlessly support new graphics hardware for all programms that only use the OS API and don't write directly into memory.

 

With a new S: handler, it would also be possible

 

* to initialize standard ANTIC Atari Graphics on an RAM extended A8 (130 XE and other A8 machines with Ramdisk and separate ANTIC/CPU Access), where the Displaylist and Screen Buffer will be the extended memory, leaving 8K more RAM for user programs

* to use extended new graphics modes like RIP and HIP from all programming languages

 

A new S: driver would be a really nice project to start. Again, anyone without proper work on weekends?

 

Carsten

[Mathy]

Howdy folks

 

I just found out today, that the blue, see through USB2VGA convertor in one of the pictures I posted here earlier, is also being sold by Sweex. But the Sweex version is grey and you can not look into the thing. It was 79.95 euro. And no, I didn't buy it.

 

Greetings

 

Mathy

[ataridano]

 

No, SIO2USB is to attached USB Storage Devices (USB Flash Sticks and Harddrives) seamlessly on that Atari using the SIO Port, no additional drivers on the Atari Side needed. For the USB2VGA Adapter, I'll use the Atari USB Cart (available at AtariMax), which is available for 2 years now.

 

Okay, I just assumed that the SIO2USB would be for USB mass storage, with all the drivers built in, so it'd be bootable and work with any DOS, but in addition allow other device support. I do like the idea of just supporting storage, though, otherwise you end up with a project that's too large to ever be finished. So the USB cart has been around 2 years? I guess I'm missing out! I was never very interested until now, I didn't have any USB device that I wanted to connect before now, and I hate to give up my cartridge port. Now I can't use those Maxflash carts I just bought Has anyone thought of PBI2USB? I also get the impression that the cart won't work in an 800's right cart slot, is that true?

 

 

 

The S: Handler is the Atari Screen handler, It is a "brother" of the E: handler, it handles all the Graphics modes. So if you call "GRAPHICS 8", it will use the S: Handler to call a piece of code in the OS ROM to initialized the ANTIC Mode for GR. 8 Display List), reserve the Screen Memory. It is also responsible for the Plot, Drawto and Fill commands.

 

Thanks for explaination of the handlers, I'm still blown away by how well these computers were designed!

 

I'll buy a USB cart and VGA adaptor soon!

[Mathy]

Howdy Dan

 

.... I hate to give up my cartridge port. Now I can't use those Maxflash carts I just bought

 

ICD once sold XE-PBI to XL-PBI adaptors. There were two cartridge ports on these adaptors. Maybe that'll work.

 

Greetings

 

Mathy

[dinosaur]

Howdy Dan

 

.... I hate to give up my cartridge port. Now I can't use those Maxflash carts I just bought

 

ICD once sold XE-PBI to XL-PBI adaptors. There were two cartridge ports on these adaptors. Maybe that'll work.

 

Greetings

 

Mathy

 

Metalguy66 is producing XE-PBI to XL-PBI adaptors to go with his new MIO.

 

Perhaps,when he has time,he could be asked to produce the cartridge extender.

Edited January 14, 2007 by dinosaur

[Cybernoid]

With a new S: handler, it would also be possible

 

* to initialize standard ANTIC Atari Graphics on an RAM extended A8 (130 XE and other A8 machines with Ramdisk and separate ANTIC/CPU Access), where the Displaylist and Screen Buffer will be the extended memory, leaving 8K more RAM for user programs

* to use extended new graphics modes like RIP and HIP from all programming languages

 

A new S: driver would be a really nice project to start. Again, anyone without proper work on weekends?

 

Sure. I would be willing and have the time to work on an extended S: handler. I know about doing this, since I was thinking about turning part of my Ansiterm into a color ansi enabled S:/E:

 

 

 

I would also like to workon the S: handler for the USB2VGA, but I do not have either piece of hardware at the moment.

 

 

 

It would also be nice to have a R: handler for a USB2Serial dongle. Is anyone working on something like this?

[ataridano]

Howdy Dan

 

.... I hate to give up my cartridge port. Now I can't use those Maxflash carts I just bought

 

ICD once sold XE-PBI to XL-PBI adaptors. There were two cartridge ports on these adaptors. Maybe that'll work.

 

Greetings

 

Mathy

 

 

I've ordered a couple of those to use with my XE, but they of course won't work with an XL. Still... that's better than nothing! I take it, then, that there's no memory or other hardware in the USB cartridge that'll conflict with a cartridge ROM/FLASH?? I haven't found any technical info about the USB cart like where the chip is mapped in memory or if there are drivers stored in the cart ROM area.

 

-Dan

[cas]

I've ordered a couple of those to use with my XE, but they of course won't work with an XL. Still... that's better than nothing! I take it, then, that there's no memory or other hardware in the USB cartridge that'll conflict with a cartridge ROM/FLASH?? I haven't found any technical info about the USB cart like where the chip is mapped in memory or if there are drivers stored in the cart ROM area.

 

-Dan

 

Hi Dan,

 

the technical Info about the USB Cart is here

http://www.strotmann.de/twiki/bin/view/Mic...ojUSBCartTwoPic

and here

http://www.strotmann.de/twiki/bin/view/Microusb/ProjUSBCart

 

The Cart is using two memory mapped addresses at

USBSEL = $D500

USBDTA = $D501

 

There is no ROM on the Atari USB Cart, as all drivers must be loaded from Disk or other storage.

 

Carsten

[Mathy]

Howdy Dan

 

I didn't say it WILL work, I said it MIGHT work like that. But cas's answer makes me believe there won't be any problems. If there are, you might wanna consider reading John K. Picken's article on cartridge control.

 

Greetings

 

Mathy

[ClausB]

Forgive the late reply - I just discovered this forum. I'm Claus Buchholz, author of ACE80, and I'm delighted to see there is still some interest in the grand old Atari computers. Thanks to those of you who posted kind words about ACE80. If you care, here's a history:

 

I first wrote the 80-column software as a dumb terminal for my homebuilt 300 baud modem so I could do my college programming from my house several miles from campus. My friend liked it and talked me into adapting it to work with the ATR-8000 CP/M machine. He marketed that as DT80. Then we worked on a version that replaced the E: device in the Atari OS and went in a right cartridge, called ACE80. It was fast because it scrolled the screen by modifying the ANTIC display list, not by moving the entire 8K bitmap. For the XL computers, we put it into a disappearing ROM left cartridge and called it (imaginatively) ACE80-XL. I also helped modify one of the popular word processors of the day (I don't remember its name) to work with ACE80.

 

It was not all that successful, but it was fun.

[+Larry]

Forgive the late reply - I just discovered this forum. I'm Claus Buchholz, author of ACE80, and I'm delighted to see there is still some interest in the grand old Atari computers. Thanks to those of you who posted kind words about ACE80. If you care, here's a history:

 

I first wrote the 80-column software as a dumb terminal for my homebuilt 300 baud modem so I could do my college programming from my house several miles from campus. My friend liked it and talked me into adapting it to work with the ATR-8000 CP/M machine. He marketed that as DT80. Then we worked on a version that replaced the E: device in the Atari OS and went in a right cartridge, called ACE80. It was fast because it scrolled the screen by modifying the ANTIC display list, not by moving the entire 8K bitmap. For the XL computers, we put it into a disappearing ROM left cartridge and called it (imaginatively) ACE80-XL. I also helped modify one of the popular word processors of the day (I don't remember its name) to work with ACE80.

 

It was not all that successful, but it was fun.

 

Hi Claus-

 

Your offer (from the ram upgrade topic) to put up the code for Ace-80 is terrific! If you have any docs, that would be great, too.

 

Thanks,

Larry (same Larry)

[+Larry]

A year or so ago, I purchased a nice ACE80-XL cartridge. But I did not get any documentation. Does anyone have any docs or know of a potential source of technical info? So far, I've discovered how to change the screen colors in the 80-column mode, but there are probably other features that I'm missing.

Thanks,

Larry

 

Someone asked for a picture of the cartridge. Somewhat difficult to get a good pic. because the label is foil with magenta lettering. Anyway, here it is.

 

-Larry

[Defender II]

Was there a cartridge solution that had an RCA jack in the top of it for composite video? Seem to recall seeing one in someone's machine back in the day, but I may be thinking of the ComputerEyes capture cartridge.

 

Was ComputerEyes ever in cartridge form?

 

Thanks for the pic Larry. : )

Edited March 17, 2008 by Defender II

[Mathy]

Hello guys and girls

 

Computereyes for the ST came in a cartridge. Computereyes for the 8 bit Atari used the joystickports.

 

The Austin 80 had video out on the cart IIRC.

 

Greetings

 

Mathy

[Shannon]

I also helped modify one of the popular word processors of the day (I don't remember its name) to work with ACE80.

 

It was not all that successful, but it was fun.

 

Was it Atari Writer xl/xe? That's the only one I remember that had an 80 column mode. It was a pretty sweet word processor.

Edited March 18, 2008 by Shannon

[+Guitarman]

Was it Atari Writer xl/xe? That's the only one I remember that had an 80 column mode. It was a pretty sweet word processor.

 

 

AtariWriter80

[ClausB]

I also helped modify one of the popular word processors of the day (I don't remember its name) to work with ACE80.

 

It was not all that successful, but it was fun.

 

Was it Atari Writer xl/xe? That's the only one I remember that had an 80 column mode. It was a pretty sweet word processor.

I think maybe it was Letter Perfect.

[dinosaur]

I also helped modify one of the popular word processors of the day (I don't remember its name) to work with ACE80.

 

It was not all that successful, but it was fun.

 

Was it Atari Writer xl/xe? That's the only one I remember that had an 80 column mode. It was a pretty sweet word processor.

 

The ACE80 cartridge (800 version) would run OmniWriter (an 80 column word processor ) I used this combination until I

bought the OmniView chip for my 800 (almost 30 years ago!)

[ClausB]

Well, I found the old ACE80 carts and I did some of the 800XL video mods in this forum.

 

I tried ACE80XL and it still works. I can't find the manual yet, but I found the following options:

START changes the text luminance.

Shift-START changes the cursor mode.

SELECT changes the background luminance.

Shift-SELECT changes the background color.

 

DT80 (the dumb terminal for the ATR8000) has the same options plus a little menu when you press OPTION. One of the menu options was Fine Scrolling, which could scroll the screen up one scanline at a time for smoooooth motion. I don't remember taking that out of ACE80, but I can't find the option.

 

I also found the source disks but haven't yet set up a drive. I also have no way yet to get it to a PC.

[yorgle]

That's great. I'd love to have a cartridge based 80 column display editor for my 1200xl. Could the code for ACE80 be transferred to a multicart?

 

BTW, does anyone have a working .atr of Easy80. The version I have gives me a BOOT ERROR every time I try to load it. Is there a trick to loading it?

[ClausB]

Well, I bit the bullet, plugged in an old Happy 810, and booted up OS/A+. Amazed, I ENTERed the source file for ACE80 and saw it for the first time in two decades. Minimal comments - guess my memory was better back then. The part that handles ROM switching, OS hooking, and copy protection was not commented at all! This is what I have relearned so far:

 

The one source file assembles conditionally to either ACE80 (right cart) or ACE80-XL (left cart).

The OPTION button does nothing and there is no smooth scrolling (see above).

It copies itself from ROM to RAM and then switches off the ROM.

It works with either 48K or 40K RAM (so, with or without BASIC).

It takes up 12.5K at the top of RAM when active, but no RAM when other graphics or text modes are used. The RAM usage is: 2K code; 1K character set; 2K character buffers; 7.5K bitmaps.

Each line of text has its own buffer and bitmap and scrolling is done by rearranging the display list (much quicker than moving buffers and bitmaps around).

The cursor is a Missile maintained by Display List Interrupts, not by ANTIC DMA.

It intercepts OS calls to the E:, S:, and K: devices for general compatibility.

It has a jump table to its main functions for non-E: apps, like word processors.

It keeps hidden vectors and hooks in page 1, a risky place because the 6502 stack could clobber it. (My QMEG RAMdisk programs used the same cocky trick and even the same locations, so they would have collided. What was I thinking?)

The character set is not in this file. I must have had another file and a program to assemble the ROM image.

 

I remember thinking that the carts were pretty well copy-proof until I got an anonymous disk in the mail with a pirated version. It was not fully functional, though, IIRC. I was more concerned about how the hacker got my home address!