Chris++ Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 This is a link to an Atari 2600 auction for an early prototype of Parker Bros. McDonald's Game: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?V...item=1361329251 I'm always surprised at how emotional some people can get about video games. This original post used more harsh language, and let me tell ya, I got absolutely LYNCHED. So let me sum up what it originally said. The auction notes: "Atariage.com and Atarimuseum.com are preparing fully detailed articles on the history of this game, from the game designer and programmer, to follow shortly. The winner of the auction must agree to allow atariage.com to release the .BINary of this game freely to the Classic Gaming community when winner receives game." How come the ROM isn't in community hands BEFORE the sale? That would lower the value for this seller; he isn't willing to do that. Let's not set dangerous precedents. There. That's it. I love starting intelligent, even passionate discussions, but let's not hurt Chris too much, 'k? Me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Room 34 Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 I agree, this seems like an all-around bad situation. But I don't think you should get down on the whole "classic gaming community" just because there are some among us who have what you (and I) perceive as whacked-out priorities. There's enough room in the community for everyone... Sure, obsession with overpriced rarities of debatable value can be frustrating for the rest of us. But frankly, I have no interest in buying this McDonald's prototype, so I am not harmed in any way by someone else being willing to pay hundreds of dollars for it. (At least this appears to be genuine, unlike the Beagle Brothers Basketball someone was selling. But for me, they're just interesting topics of discussion, and will never be something I want to buy.) I suppose if you want to collect obscure unfinished prototypes because you want to play them, it can be frustrating when values get inflated. But I have a feeling you're about as interested in getting this game as I am, that being not at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 Sit back and listen and you might learn a thing or two... "Atariage.com and Atarimuseum.com are preparing fully detailed articles on the history of this game, from the game designer and programmer, to follow shortly. The winner of the auction must agree to allow atariage.com to release the .BINary of this game freely to the Classic Gaming community when winner receives game." How's that for SCREWING SOMEONE! If the person knows this going into the auction how is it screwing someone? They know what they're getting into and don't have to bid if they can't live by the rules. The game is currently standing at over $120 with four days to go (with a "buy it now" option of $999!!). The buyer is supposed to agree to these auction terms, summed up as "Okay, after you pay lots of money for this game, you have to give it away to the 'community' for free." WHAT??!! Once again if you don't like the terms of the auction DON'T BID. No one is twisting your arm to buy it. I imagine this provision was put in to keep people from hording prototypes and not releasing them. You can't do anything about prototypes people already own, but this is a novel attempt to put the provision in BEFORE the sale so the person knows what they're getting into. I really don't see anything wrong with that since they know before hand what they're in for. Now think about this: how come the ROM isn't in community hands BEFORE the sale? That would lower the value for this seller; he isn't willing to do that, but he is very willing let that happen to someone else -- in fact, he INSISTS that you bend over and get screwed. How is this being screwed? Most people do this anyway (Marco has released a ton of prototypes he's bought). The ROM will be released, so why the hostility? Sounds like someone just wants the bitch. There is more wrong with this community then I thought. Whoever buys this auction under these terms isn't just obsessed, they're stupid too Now your just showing how ignorant you are about the Atari community. Obviously you don't understand and you want to ridicule those who do. Why don't you take your flame bait somewhere else? JI2 is always up for a few trolls... If I sound a bit harsh it's because my friend is running this auction and I don't take kindly to people shooting their mouths off and berating my friends when they don't know what the hell they're talking about. Learn the facts first before you start making unverified accusations. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 Hi guys.... lets just clear the air here a little bit. Noone is getting screwed as you put it. Noone is twisting the arm of the person who may bid or may win the auction. They do it of their own free will knowing that they will be the owner of the actual original hardware and code, but also allowing people who will never own the actual original to have access to the rom code to examine and try out in an emulator. IMHO I think this is very fair in that everyone will know there is an original prototype out there, and that collectors who want to own the original actual carts also have their chance, but being fair to others who would like to see the ROM code made available and also so that in the event of bit-rot failure that the code is out into the community and not lost for all times. So far 4 people have bid on the game, noone has sent me an email griping over the terms at all, so it seems that the bidders are quite happy with the terms of the auction and the fact that they have a chance to not only own the original, but that they are benefitting the entire classic gaming community by also allowing the release of an image of the code to everyone so they can also enjoy an opportunity to see the code of the game and it isn't some ultra-exclusive that only those with deep pocket-books or secret connections can own. I think you guys are looking at this the totally wrong way in griping about the release of the code. Would you prefer it if the owner wins the game and then thats it, the code NEVER gets released and all anyone ever gets to do is look at screen shots, come on.... everyone gripes over rom code NOT getting released, I can't believe people are griping because its going to be released... if the bidders are content with the terms and are bidding then obviously this is the right thing to do, release the code or not, somebody make up your mind Curt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 The description of the auction makes it quite clear that there is no gameplay, so there's not really that much in the "exclusivity" in this case of having a prototype that no one else can play. This does not change the fact that this is an extremely rare prototype that has never come up before on eBay. I do not believe that the value of a prototype is lessened by the fact that the binary is floating around out there. Prototypes of unreleased games often fetch ungodly sums of money, especially those for which only a few (or even one!) copy is known to exist. As a collector myself, knowing that a prototype like this is ungodly rare means as the owner I will be in a club with a few select other people who have it. Or in some cases, the only person who has it. This is what I feel drives people to collect prototypes, because you have an original and quite uncommon version of the game that was used in development by the designers and programmers. Prototypes are also very interesting pieces of Atari history. I don't think most people are buying these protos to actually play them, especially since the binaries are almost always available. So the value of this McDonalds proto can't really be based on the actual gameplay, but on its historical value and its extreme rarity. I don't think the seller is getting screwed here at all. For those people who might only bid on it because they think the value is higher if they have sole possession of the binary, well, fortunately it's stated up front that the binary will ultimately be released (along with additional information regarding the development of McDonalds). No one is forcing anyone to bid on this proto! ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris++ Posted June 20, 2002 Author Share Posted June 20, 2002 Learn a thing or two? Kiddo, I've been in this since the first article about Atari popped up on CompuServe back in the '80s. This is a bad deal. I have no ignorance about the community; it's not unreasonable for me to state that things have gotten worse than I thought. This doesn't apply to everyone here, or the entire community; Adam and I are echoing comments made here by others that certain people realize they can make a buck off Atari enthusiasts, and ruin things for others. I agree with both of you, Scott and Tempest -- it doesn't hurt me if the guy's doing it. But Tempest, if you can't see how someone can be screwed by buying something and then agreeing that the ROM be distributed for free, you're the ignorant one. And you and I obviously play Atari for different reasons. Me, I like playing the games. If you're such a loyalist to the whole collecting side of it that someone's opinion is deemed "ignorant" because you don't agree with it, maybe it's best you stay out of discussions that display a wider perspective. An opinion is not a "flame," Tempest. Here's my general statement: The seller KNOWS THAT THE VALUE WILL DROP IF THE ROM IS NOT GIVEN AWAY FOR FREE FIRST. Otherwise, the image would already be up there! Use your heads, guys. If you don't disagree with things like this, future protos -- ones you might WANT, and playable ones at that -- might suffer worse fates. CF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 I can do a similar graphic in less than a hour. Anybody interested? So, who can prove this is not a fake? BTW: If the seller insist that the buyer has to release the binary to the public, he loweres his value of the cart. Now he may get less money, because not everybody can accept his terms. So IMO he is screwing nobody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 Priceless.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris++ Posted June 20, 2002 Author Share Posted June 20, 2002 Hmmm...an excellent different viewpoint, as always, Thomas. I hadn't thought of it that way. I guess we'll see! (rubbing hands) I love provocative threads! CF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 You have GOT to be kidding me. This is bad for the hobby?? I'm going to lose it, I swear. Here we have a prototype owner who is insisting that it be shared with everyone. Normally people complain when prototype owners *don't* share. He is totally clear in the auction the the binary is going to be shared. Anyone who buys this is clearly doing so for the historical value. In this case, everybody wins except for any potential prototype hoarders. Some happy bidder gets a piece of history, and everyone else gets a peek at it. I simply don't understand how someone is being screwed when they know *exactly* what they're getting. Knowing Curt, he will make doubly sure that the winner understands before accepting payment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris++ Posted June 20, 2002 Author Share Posted June 20, 2002 Alex -- You might want to read the rest of the thread. I think you missed something. And if you're about to "lose it" because someone argues about the way to sell a proto, you need to get out more often. They're only Atari games, pal. Take a deep breath. CF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 I can do a similar graphic in less than a hour. Anybody interested? So, who can prove this is not a fake? Unlike "protos" which show up that have some form of questionability to them, this proto is also coming with the original Parker Brothers Envelope as well as a pile of Documentation and sketches from the original Game Designer, so this proto comes with its own set of authentication paperwork in a manner of speaking.... Curt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 Learn a thing or two? Kiddo, I've been in this since the first article about Atari popped up on CompuServe back in the '80s. Just becuase you've been part of the community since the 80's doesn't mean you still don't have a thing or two to learn. Wisdom isn't always proportional to age... This is a bad deal. I have no ignorance about the community; it's not unreasonable for me to state that things have gotten worse than I thought. This doesn't apply to everyone here, or the entire community; Adam and I are echoing comments made here by others that certain people realize they can make a buck off Atari enthusiasts, and ruin things for others. How is selling a prototype on Ebay runing things for others? Everyone is smart about shooting their mouths off when it's not their prototype, but when they end up spending a butt load of money and time to track down and acquire a rare prototype suddenly they change thier tune. I'm not quite following your logic here. First you bitch about the person who ends up winning this auction paying alot of money and having to allow distribution of the prototype, then you bitch about people who don't freely dump their prototypes. Which is it? I agree with both of you, Scott and Tempest -- it doesn't hurt me if the guy's doing it. But Tempest, if you can't see how someone can be screwed by buying something and then agreeing that the ROM be distributed for free, you're the ignorant one. Once again the person who wins this KNOWS that they will have to do this, it's part of the deal. In my book being screwed would be if the sell suddenly gave out the rom after the person bought it without getting their permission first. That's screwing someone. And you and I obviously play Atari for different reasons. Me, I like playing the games. If you're such a loyalist to the whole collecting side of it that someone's opinion is deemed "ignorant" because you don't agree with it, maybe it's best you stay out of discussions that display a wider perspective. Playing the games and collecting go hand in hand really. I enjoy both sides of the hobby, and I don't see what's wrong with "collecting" as you put it. And you are ignorant if you can't see there's merit to both sides of hobby. One shouldn't be expected to give things out for free, but then one shouldn't horde things either. An opinion is not a "flame," Tempest. Here's my general statement: The seller KNOWS THAT THE VALUE WILL DROP IF THE ROM IS NOT GIVEN AWAY FOR FREE FIRST. Otherwise, the image would already be up there! Use your heads, guys. If you don't disagree with things like this, future protos -- ones you might WANT, and playable ones at that -- might suffer worse fates. Ok I'll conceed that your post wasn't a flame, but you were being damn hard on Curt without getting his side of the story first. I don't see what's wrong with holding the rom release off until the prototype is sold. The rom gets released, you get to play the game for free, someone gets to own the one of a kind original, and everyone is happy. What's wrong with that? Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 Alex -- You might want to read the rest of the thread. I think you missed something. And if you're about to "lose it" because someone argues about the way to sell a proto, you need to get out more often. They're only Atari games, pal. Take a deep breath. CF I vote Chris F. to become the official Proto Auction Standards and Review Board Chairman, all auctions must meet ISO9001 Standards, who will 2nd the vote!? He must submit a 250 page document detailing all guidelines and standards by which we must all follow! Curt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris++ Posted June 20, 2002 Author Share Posted June 20, 2002 I'm flattered. How about a simple two-sentence document instead: Don't set dangerous precedents by asking that much money for a non-game that will be given away anyway. Give the ROM away first, then see if you can still get your price. I don't understand what's hard to grasp about that. Was it the word "screwed" that I used too much? Should I go back and edit the first post? (Great -- then I'll get more flames about how I shouldn't edit controversial posts.) CF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 I reallly like the idea, that all prototypes are dumped and made public available. The only thing I don't understand is, why Curt doesn't dump the game himself. He can loose absolutely nothing in the current situation. Or do you think, somebody will pay extra money for the credits of being the one who released the binary (after you forced him to)? Maybe, but I don't understand collectors anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvigor Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 I can do a similar graphic in less than a hour. Anybody interested? So, who can prove this is not a fake? Thomas- This was my first thought. Until I saw the accompanying documents and the board itself, I was not convinced. But, I suppose for $999.41 (or whatever) I could go to the trouble to mock up all of that as well. The final word on authenticity could probably be gotten from the programmer contacts that are given in the auction description. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonesome_pa Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 I think releasing the binary is a good idea. I'm not sure if it's possible, or legal, for someone to complete the game or not; but if the new buyer has no programing ability at all, maybe someone who has the ability can freely get the code and finish it. I don't think that making something that is normally unattainable attainable could in any way depreciate the "value" of the original proto. I would love to own a proto, but alas, I can't afford to. At least, if the binary is released, or finished, I'll be able to play a game that I could only dream of playing. Imagine taking all the one-of-a-kind paintings in the world and hoarding them in a safe so no-one, except the owner, could look at them. What if you wanted to look at one, but the owner states that you need to buy it but not let anyone else ever look at it. I'm not sure if I'm making any sense or not, but I believe that games like this one shouldn't only be available to the "filthy rich", but available to everyone that would like to enjoy it. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 Unlike "protos" which show up that have some form of questionability to them, this proto is also coming with the original Parker Brothers Envelope as well as a pile of Documentation and sketches from the original Game Designer, so this proto comes with its own set of authentication paperwork in a manner of speaking.... That sounds really interesting! Will that be released to the public too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 Hmmm... I'm not sure which side I take here... One thing I agree on what was said is: I must ask, if the seller is SO intent on making sure the buyer releases the Binary to the public, why doesn't he just do it himself BEFORE selling it? why hasn't he done it ALREADY? You know why? TO DRIVE UP THE SALE PRICE! Cause he knows once any Tom, Dick or Harry can get there hands on the code only HardCore collectors are gonna want the actual ROM chip... Whereas right now he has the WHOLE market, people who want the physical chip, AND those who want the data the chip is storing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 Absolutely..... Alex and Albert have been given the programmers email address as they will have contact to him to discuss this further as well as talk about other games that may have been in development. Curt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 I must ask, if the seller is SO intent on making sure the buyer releases the Binary to the public, why doesn't he just do it himself BEFORE selling it? why hasn't he done it ALREADY?You know why? TO DRIVE UP THE SALE PRICE! No, as I explained above that won't work. It's like selling a picture to somebody and give him the restriction, that he must give everybody free access to see it. That reduces the price automatically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 Unlike "protos" which show up that have some form of questionability to them, this proto is also coming with the original Parker Brothers Envelope as well as a pile of Documentation and sketches from the original Game Designer, so this proto comes with its own set of authentication paperwork in a manner of speaking.... That sounds really interesting! Will that be released to the public too? Yes, in fact thats whats being worked on right now, a whole article with copies of the documents online, quotes from the game designer and programmer, photo's of the cart, envelope and any other related materials. Its nice to see a proto released, but we also want to release all of the info and history behind it as well. Curt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 Thomas said: The only thing I don't understand is, why Curt doesn't dump the game himself. He can loose absolutely nothing in the current situation. What makes you think the rom hasn't been dumped already? More interesting...what are the odds that AtariAge may already have it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris++ Posted June 20, 2002 Author Share Posted June 20, 2002 Hmmm....well, Al? Alex? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.