Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 I believe that it was dumped already. The terms just mention that so that the buyer KNOWS that it won't be hoarded. Whether the ROM is released now or later makes no difference (except to people who WOULD HAVE hoarded it).All of this is completely beside the point. We all know that the proto will be released as a ROM, any potential buyers know that as well. 100% agreed. I think this might be a only a legal problem. Curt wanted the proto and documents to be public available (thanks) and he also accepted that this restriction could lower his price (and NOT increase! Many thanks for being that generous!), and he just wanted to make sure, that the new owner accepts this and has no right to stop the public release. And he was also telling everybody who could read, where the whole stuff will be released. So, if you think twice (that sometimes helps ), he did exactly what most people from the community always were asking for. And now the is being punished for doing that. That's IMO really insane. Just my two cents, I do not understand collectors anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 Actually, I had a hand puppet when I was a kid that I got from Mcdonalds and I remember it said "THE EVIL GRIMACE".. which of course got me all confused. This was probably around 1973 - 1975ish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 Yup...because Grimace was originally a four-armed mutant that stole kid's milkshakes (I believe that his facial expression was that of a "grimace" as well). Nobody seems to remember the Cop's name (who looked like Mayor McCheese in a police uniform)...or if he even had one. Now a short poem to honor him... Hamburgler runs free! He's free. Yay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitfall Harry Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 Tempest, I thought the reasons for my comments were quite clear, but I'll restate them again just for you I'm not jealous of anything here, I'm simply pointing out the absurdity of the terms being imposed on the buyer. I'm glad the community will get to share the game, but what if the seller didn't have the means to dump the ROM, and the buyer refused to release it? It would pretty much suck to be us then, wouldn't it? That's why I care. Vendel: you conveniently avoided answering my questions. Why dictate that the new owner release the ROM if you're going to release it anyway? It doesn't make any sense. And how would you enforce the terms of the auction if the buyer decided not to follow through? Get them banned from Ebay? Publicly bash them? Threaten to sue them? Scott, I see your point entirely and I agree with it entirely, even though it is now moot. You can't FORCE a buyer to do anything with an item won on eBay. At least, not without a carefully worded contract which a lawyer has scrutinized to the nines for loopholes. Even if that drastic step were to be taken, what legal ownership rights does Vendel really have over the intellectual property of an unreleased prototype as it stands now? Would he realistically have the right to dictate the usage of the prototype after he has accepted money for it and surrendered possession? The buyer could simply say, "It's mine now. Dictate what you will until you're blue in the face for all I care." Or he could say that he will release the binary as agreed, but there was no time limit mentioned in the auction. Maybe he'll release it posthumously, maybe by a stipulation in his will that one of his descendants must do so no later than the year 4002. What Vendel should have done was initially state in his auction description that the ROM binary "has already been dumped and distributed to a third party who has promised to make his copy of the binary publicly available immediately following the conclusion of the auction." That surely was his intention. His addendum makes that rather clear now. It's not my intention to berate anyone for expressing negative opinions or suspicions concerning Curt Vendel's auction. I accept the fact that it is going to be this way no matter who it is, no matter how they sell their prototype. Still, it saddens me to see how someone could attempt to sell a prototype with absolutely the best of intentions, making an honest attempt at explaining how he will make the binary file available to everyone for FREE, and still raise the hackles on some collectors. Forgive the guy for not authoring the "Perfectly Worded Ebay Auction" to placate every sector of the classic videogaming community on his first draft! The release and sale of prototypes is a highly charged, polarizing issue among collectors and it apparently always will be. I'm sure Curt was aware that he was stepping into a minefield when he initially posted his auction. It's wishful thinking, I know, but I wish ALL prototypes were sold and released this way. I have nothing but admiration for the courage imagination and benevolence Curt displayed in crafting his sale and for the grace with which he responded to the inevitible message board criticisms to follow. Anyway, the auction is over. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian D. Deuel Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 I hope Curt gets every single penny that he can get from this proto. Some people in collector circles seem to think that making money is some kind of sin. It's the same deal with some arcade game collectors. As long as they're getting $50 JAMMA games and handouts, they're fine. The second you want to supplement your income by selling a piece of something you own, rare or not, for the price YOU want, you're suddenly a greedy bastard. By doing this, you're "going against the good of the community." What a load of bollocks. When I was in the coinop amusements operating business, I sure as hell didn't sell games and parts for "the good of the community." I'd have gone out of business if I did that. Things are the same now. If you want something I have, you pay MY price. Can't pay it? Too bad. Look elsewhere for a better price. Maybe you can gripe on a messageboard for sympathy, but that doesn't change things one iota from my end. So Curt makes a few bucks from this cart. He has EVERY DAMN RIGHT to. So he doesn't release the binary until after it's sold. SO WHAT? It's HIS cart. He could smash it into a million pieces and not share it with anyone, and it wouldn't bother me one bit. Why? Because IT'S HIS. It seems to be the same in ALL collector circles. There's always someone who gets jealous and has to complain because they can't afford or can't get their hands on something that, in reality, isn't theirs (or the "community") to begin with. Get over it already. I sure want that mint Quantum on eBay, but I can't afford the $3,000 or whatever they go for these days. Oh well. It's amazing what gripes someone with a mob mentallity can come up with. I know I won't make any new friends with this post, but tough. People who think like this really piss me off. Move to a socialist country if you want to "share" everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 I thought the reasons for my comments were quite clear, but I'll restate them again just for you I'm not jealous of anything here, I'm simply pointing out the absurdity of the terms being imposed on the buyer. I'm glad the community will get to share the game, but what if the seller didn't have the means to dump the ROM, and the buyer refused to release it? It would pretty much suck to be us then, wouldn't it? That's why I care. Well since it's already been dumped this argument is a moot point isn't it? This may have been the reasons for your argument, but if you go back and read your post it sure doesn't sound like thats the reason you posted (take a close look at your last sentence). I know you and Curt don't get along and that's fine (not everyone gets along, that's part of life), but taking every oppertunity to get in a jab at Curt whenever you can and hiding it behind something else is low. That's why I was mad. Sorry if I sounded a bit bitchy. Can't we all just agree to disagree on this and move on? I don't like the tone this thread has been taking since post one. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Stilphen Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 Well since it's already been dumped this argument is a moot point isn't it? No, b/c he only changed the auction after this thread started. It's not about him making $ off of it, it was his underlying alterior motives. .. but taking every oppertunity to get in a jab at Curt whenever you can and hiding it behind something else is low. Every opportunity? It was a ridiculously-worded auction, and my questions pertaining to it are legitimate. My opinion would still be the same, no matter who's name was on it. Perhaps your close friendship with Curt is clouding the fact that he made a mistake in how he set up this auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitfall Harry Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 Yes, the auction is over. The point is moot. And taking every opportunity to get a jab in at another member is low. How much loftier is it, I wonder, for a forum moderator to reach back into a thread, long after the point has become moot, dredge up another member's comments and subject them to yet another round of public analysis and recrimination? Tempest, buddy. If you don't like the tone of the thread, maybe you should just walk away from it before you say something that reeks of pettiness and hypocrisy. Or take any personal issues you have with Scott offline. I don't see how rehashing your source of irritation has much relavence to the initial topic, anyway. But I do see how bickering a long dead point offline will help all of us agree to disagree and to move on. Ben Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvigor Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 My observation on this thread is that there are a lot of grown people using the word "moot". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 That is a moot point Mathew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 [quote="Scott Stilphen" Vendel: you conveniently avoided answering my questions. Why dictate that the new owner release the ROM if you're going to release it anyway? It doesn't make any sense. And how would you enforce the terms of the auction if the buyer decided not to follow through? Get them banned from Ebay? Publicly bash them? Threaten to sue them? Stilphy.... learn to read dorko, the auction clearly states that the ROM has already been dumped and that atariage.com will be releasing the ROM... sheeez, for someone who is able to locate Easter Eggs, you sure can't read can you, somebody get this poor man some glasses!!! Curt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Room 34 Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 In the end, I just find it hard to comprehend that someone was willing to pay nearly $1000 for this. Maybe what I should say is, whoever bought it... I want your job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 Every opportunity? It was a ridiculously-worded auction' date=' and my questions pertaining to it are legitimate. My opinion would still be the same, no matter who's name was on it. Perhaps your close friendship with Curt is clouding the fact that he made a mistake in how he set up this auction.[/quote'] uh oh..... Scotts hearing those voices again..... whispering about clouded issues, secret agenda's But worse of all..... ludicrous and ridiculous words being spread around..... watch out, he'll be running down the street in his underwear screaming HEEEELLLLPPPPPP........ The Proto People are coming to get me!!!!! It amazes me how NOONE, repeat NOONE seemed clouded except Scott during the auction Somebody speak to the poor boy, use small words and explain it all to him slowly.... and for crying out loud, GET HIM SOME GLASSES Love ya Scott!!! Curt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 One of my bosses was named Smoot...she was so cool she spelt it with an apostrophe (S'moot). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 Maybe what I <i>should</i> say is, whoever bought it... I want your job! That avatar is cool.... Rindle at the Drive Thru, what is it, Adventure Diner & Pizza Joint? Grundle is at the Grill, Yordle does sweep-up? :-) You should do a GIF animation on your site with like Mario and Donkey Kong in a car pulling up to the Drive Thru window to pick up their order. Curt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerG Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 O.K. a little grammar lesson. Sorry, I am working on a degree in Linguistics . Moot means debatable or undecided. A moot point is one that is wide open for discussion, argument, etc. I think most everyone wants to say the issue is mute. Mute means it is silent, over, doesn't matter, etc. I dislike conflicts so from now on I will stay out and remain MUTE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Room 34 Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 That avatar is cool.... Rindle at the Drive Thru, what is it, Adventure Diner & Pizza Joint? You obviously do not live near any White Castle restaurants! The Rhindle drive-thru pic is actually part of a full scene I did... http://room34.com/svvgr/article_02.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 That avatar is cool.... Rindle at the Drive Thru, what is it, Adventure Diner & Pizza Joint? You obviously do not live near any White Castle restaurants! The Rhindle drive-thru pic is actually part of a full scene I did... http://room34.com/svvgr/article_02.html Wait!!! I was just at your site, that graphic is too funny dude, I love the bubble quote ordering the "square" Thats too funny dude!!!..... I don't do White Castle drive thru's though, I'm still convinced that they make their burgers from the scrappings off of the McDonalds & Burger King grills (YIKES!!!) Curt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 If you don't like the tone of the thread, maybe you should just walk away from it before you say something that reeks of pettiness and hypocrisy Pettiness and hypocrisy? Christ get over yourself Harry. Your one of the last people that should be getting all high and mighty. I know of only two people are this board who are justified to those those kind of acqusations around and you ain't one of them. But if you think that's the way I operate by all means revoke my mod status and send me to the void of sinners that don't live up to Pitfall Harry's standards. @Scott: I still don't see what's wrong with the way Curt originally worded the auction. Maybe it's because I knew it had already been dumped and therefore had all the information before everyone started jumping to conclusions. Now I know why people go into retirement and never come back. After awhile it's just no fun any more and you seek greener pastures. Just take a look at all the people who were part of the community in the beginning that have left and gone. Every wonder why? After years of being part of the community threads like this, petty turf wars, low blows, and people jumping on your back just start to wear on you. Foo! I quit! Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Room 34 Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 I don't do White Castle drive thru's though, I'm still convinced that they make their burgers from the scrappings off of the McDonalds & Burger King grills (YIKES!!!) Maybe so, but they sure are TASTY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 @Scott: I still don't see what's wrong with the way Curt originally worded the auction. Maybe it's because I knew it had already been dumped and therefore had all the information before everyone started jumping to conclusions. Now I know why people go into retirement and never come back. After awhile it's just no fun any more and you seek greener pastures. Just take a look at all the people who were part of the community in the beginning that have left and gone. Every wonder why? After years of being part of the community threads like this' date=' petty turf wars, low blows, and people jumping on your back just start to wear on you. Foo! I quit! Tempest[/quote'] See Scott.... now look what you've done, Matts leaving and its all your fault (well.... you and those voices you keep hearing!!!) Matt.... please don't go, please don't go, don't go away.... Curt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Room 34 Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 I still don't see what's wrong with the way Curt originally worded the auction. Maybe it's because I knew it had already been dumped and therefore had all the information before everyone started jumping to conclusions. I don't want to rehash the argument, but I will just say that I too did not understand the way the auction was worded initially. I got the impression that it was going to be the buyer's responsibility to dump the ROM and give it to AtariAge.com and AtariMuseum.com. (Obviously, now I understand that is not the case.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffy Arensmeyer Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 Foo! I quit! - Tempest Are you still gonna be needing that avatar, or is it available now? ò¿ó Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 I don't do White Castle drive thru's though, I'm still convinced that they make their burgers from the scrappings off of the McDonalds & Burger King grills (YIKES!!!) Maybe so, but they sure are TASTY! Hmmmmmm, eh, maybe.... but I bet you must get a lot of "Hey! You're that kid who's be cloggy up my toilets aren't you!" Curt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 O.K. a little grammar lesson. Sorry, I am working on a degree in Linguistics . Moot means debatable or undecided. A moot point is one that is wide open for discussion, argument, etc. I think most everyone wants to say the issue is mute. Mute means it is silent, over, doesn't matter, etc. I dislike conflicts so from now on I will stay out and remain MUTE. Interesting, I didn't actually know that. But it does also mean "of no practical importance; irrelevant". So it can be used here depending on your opinion of the relevancy of the debate. I think it is being used properly, it's a matter of context. Note the "of no practical importance, irrelevant" below: ---- moot Pronunciation Key (mt) n. Law. A hypothetical case argued by law students as an exercise. An ancient English meeting, especially a representative meeting of the freemen of a shire. tr.v. moot·ed, moot·ing, moots To bring up as a subject for discussion or debate. To discuss or debate. See Synonyms at broach1. Law. To plead or argue (a case) in a moot court. adj. Subject to debate; arguable: a moot question. Law. Without legal significance, through having been previously decided or settled. Of no practical importance; irrelevant. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Middle English, meeting, from Old English mt, gemt.] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- mootness n. Usage Note: The adjective moot is originally a legal term going back to the mid-16th century. It derives from the noun moot, in its sense of a hypothetical case argued as an exercise by law students. Consequently, a moot question is one that is arguable or open to debate. But in the mid-19th century people also began to look at the hypothetical side of moot as its essential meaning, and they started to use the word to mean “of no significance or relevance.” Thus, a moot point, however debatable, is one that has no practical value. A number of critics have objected to this use, but 59 percent of the Usage Panel accepts it in the sentence The nominee himself chastised the White House for failing to do more to support him, but his concerns became moot when a number of Republicans announced that they, too, would oppose the nomination. When using moot one should be sure that the context makes clear which sense is meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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