Hiccup Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Rom Hunter said: Photo's of the dumped media and the dump tools weren't attached or mentioned in the early days of ROM dumping, but nowadays it's always shown which cart was dumped and how. You can find scans of the correspinding media on our game page. Looking on this page, I see various images, but its not clear which boxes and carts go together, and which carts were dumped. Also, where can the dump tool info be found? 2 hours ago, Rom Hunter said: Dumper's name doesn't interest me all that much. Is that info recorded anywhere, even if its not high-priority? Edited November 12, 2022 by Hiccup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Hiccup said: Looking on this page, I see various images, but its not clear which boxes and carts go together, and which carts were dumped. Also, where can the dump tool info be found? Is that info recorded anywhere, even if its not high-priority? The box scans and end label scan that follow up a cart scan belong to that cart. In this case, both boxes carry the first cart shown and the box of the last cart shown is still not found. The ROM belongs to all carts shown on the page (in most cases different label variations of the same cart contain the same ROM). Dump tool info is not shown in our database and a dumper's name or scan donator (if known) can be found in our archives. Edited November 12, 2022 by Rom Hunter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiccup Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rom Hunter said: The box scans and end label scan that follow up a cart scan belong to that cart. In this case, both boxes carry the first cart shown and the box of the last cart shown is still not found. The ROM belongs to all carts shown on the page (in most cases different label variations of the same cart contain the same ROM). Dump tool info is not shown in our database and a dumper's name or scan donator (if known) can be found in our archives. Thanks. Seems to be like the info is not necessarily all linked-up and complete at the moment. So I'm thinking there may be some benefit to making use of the dat-o-matic database system. Edited November 12, 2022 by Hiccup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schitti Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 (edited) On 11/10/2022 at 12:03 PM, Thomas Jentzsch said: What exactly do you mean here? Atarimania is documenting if a ROM has been dumped. That is not completely right. Atarimania also offers roms on games that are not dumped. If a rom is not available, then unfortunately Atarimania offers the rom from the original game there. (include the "wrong" Screenshots). A note in this case would be beneficial. Anyway, it gives the visitor the impression that the game is already dumped. That's why I find it problematic to see Stella and Atarimania as 100% sources. That's probably not the case with Rom Hunters Collection. There he's documenting correct (i think). Edited December 5, 2022 by Schitti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Schitti said: Atarimania also offers roms on games that are not dumped. If a rom is not available, then unfortunately Atarimania offers the rom from the original game there. (include the "wrong" Screenshots). AFAIK only if if the ROM is identical to the original. Can you please show me an example in which this is not the case? I'm curious to know. Edited December 5, 2022 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schitti Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 49 minutes ago, Rom Hunter said: AFAIK only if if the ROM is identical to the original. Can you please show me an example in which this is not the case? I'm curious to know. Too idle to pick out several now. Sure, you can only use the dumps made available to you by other users. Maybe some don't know the exact differences. It is not your vault. Examples? Of course I didn't write down the examples I noticed. (... and there are some) From memory, i remembered HES' Ghostbusters. You've replaced the rom in the meantime. You can check Pyramid War from Suntek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Schitti said: You can check Pyramid War from Suntek Thanks, Schitti. Indeed: Suntek's Bermuda, Galactic, Pyramid War and Tom Boy carry the Suntek logo on screen, while the Rainbow Vision carts carry the title on screen (or so we assume). This is a tricky one, because Suntek cartridges are identical to Rainbow Vision cartridges and AFAIK all the other Suntek and Rainbow Vision twin titles contain identical ROMs. In this case, you can only tell by showing its box and proving the cart truly belongs to that box (which in many cases is impossible to proof) and even then it's still not certain. For example, War 2000 from Home Vision has two different versions: one with the Dimax logo on screen and one with the Home Vision logo on screen. But the cartridge and the box look exactly the same. That's also the reason why I have two different Rainbow Vision - Suntek versions of the Bermuda and Galactic ROMs in my collection (and I'm still looking for the alternate versions of Pyramid War and Tom Boy). But I will make a note of this in our database asap. Edited December 5, 2022 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-Bit Goat Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 (edited) Hi, all. Recently got a Retron 77 and starting experimenting with some ROM dumps of my carts. My Quest for Quintana Roo cart (Sunrise, NTSC) has a different checksum than the existing dumps. Possible alternate version? Edit: Looks like only a byte or two difference. Bad dump? Bit rot? Actual change in the program? I don't know. Quest For Quintana Roo rom-8374e1cc408a05019457dfbc13fdf088.rar Edited March 13, 2023 by 8-Bit Goat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 26 minutes ago, 8-Bit Goat said: Hi, all. Recently got a Retron 77 and starting experimenting with some ROM dumps of my carts. My Quest for Quintana Roo cart (Sunrise, NTSC) has a different checksum than the existing dumps. Possible alternate version? Edit: Looks like only a byte or two difference. Bad dump? Bit rot? Actual change in the program? I don't know. The two different bytes are unused. They are repeated from the code directly above. Probably the master EEPROM was previously used for an older version, where the code was two bytes longer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-Bit Goat Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 Ah, okay, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 Did anyone ever look at that Math Grand Prix proto and see what was different? I've had this one forever but never could figure out what was different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manterola Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) Hi All, Yesterday I was successful in dumping the ROM of my "9999 Games Built In" 2600 Clone machine. I guess with the "9999 games built in" I am leading the competition of the 2600 clone console with more "games" built in Anyway, it has been about 3 or more years that I really wanted to get this ROM image because this console was bought in Chile like 20 years ago, and Chile was part of the NTSC land (before the digital conversion). Then, when I was doing some research, I could not find a picture or mention to this particular ROM chip: 4000-0010N. Notice the "N". All pictures I have found here or in google image search are the same but with a "P" and the chips are from consoles from Central Europe or the PAL size of South America. So, my hope is that this ROM is something different and hopefully the "N" is for NTSC. At least, so far, the order is different to the game lists I have found. The ROM was read using a TL866ii assuming a 27C040 4Mbit EPROM (thanks @Wizzard for the valuable information), deactivating the ID checking, lifting /OE, and lifting and connecting /CE to +5V. I have been extracting, playing and cutting 2KB and 4KB sections of the ROM image and I have discovered that at least the first 4 games (and probably many more) are 4KB games and some (like Venture) don't exactly match V19 ROM pack. The console has the typical bank selection switch labeled "Game Group Switch", but the PCB has the 128/64/32 inscription. So, enough introduction, I hope you can help me find some NTSC gem, I am not very optimistic, but we will see. Edit and P.S.: I am not sure how 4Mbit (512KB) can be achived with only 19 address lines A0-A18, but I checked the image and it is not the same in the second half and I also checked the PCB and all these 19 lines are connected to something else. So, if you find something fishy, let me know and can try dumping the ROM again. 2600B (9999 built in clone console).bin Edited January 8 by manterola 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 3 minutes ago, manterola said: Yesterday I was successful in dumping the ROM of my "9999 Games Built In" 2600 Clone machine. I guess with the "9999 games built in" I am leading the competition of the 2600 clone console with more "games" built in This is rad, just downloaded and I'll start chopping them into bits, I'll start from the back if you're going from the start. I've got about 7 different clone machines like this and have often wondered if there might be something unfound lurking somewhere on the chips. Good job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 15 minutes ago, Buckaroo said: This is rad, just downloaded and I'll start chopping them into bits If you use Stella, just define it as 512K MultiCart. Then you can step through all ROMs using Crtl+R (or back with Ctrl+Shift+R). I didn't find anything new, but about 30 variations of known ROMs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 1 minute ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: If you use Stella, just define it as 512K MultiCart. Then you can step through all ROMs using Crtl+R (or back with Ctrl+Shift+R). Nice one thanks, the more you know. I've just split it into 2k & 4k chunks using a HEX editor to make it hard for myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 46 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: If you use Stella, just define it as 512K MultiCart. Then you can step through all ROMs using Crtl+R (or back with Ctrl+Shift+R). I didn't find anything new, but about 30 variations of known ROMs. Can you please post the 30 variations here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 1 hour ago, Rom Hunter said: Can you please post the 30 variations here? I have to correct myself. There are 83 unique ROMS. But I suppose the differences to known ROMs are minimal. unique_roms.zip 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manterola Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) Thanks for the tips regarding Stella, and confirm that there are 4K games. I partitioned the file in 4k chunks, added CRC32, just in case, and renamed the files with what I believe is the correct name. Enjoy! Edit: here is the list for future reference. # Title CRC32 0 Time Warp e5bc054d 1 Venture 85bafb24 2 River Raid 9aee6e8e 3 Racing Car 1a89d2aa 4 Jawbreaker fc11bf67 5 Dishaster c8150316 6 Keystone Capers e6759e2d 7 Robot Fight 384980d7 8 Superman 39562bd7 9 Ice Hockey 284ed23e 10 Frogs and Flies aecc03bc 11 Video Pinball 10d95426 12 Space Invaders a6e867b3 13 Katastrophen-Einsatz eb3f2a02 14 Fantastic Voyage b5628d69 15 Walker c77ba76b 16 Pitfall bf82552c 17 Enduro e49ed673 18 Pac Kong fa287be8 19 Defender 4d520291 20 Dragonfire ba5dc02c 21 The Empire Strikes Baab7c9fb6 22 Sub-Scan ae33c430 23 International Soccer 9d61ea04 24 Seaquest 662d57c0 25 The Challenge Of Nexa57b3d123 26 King Kong 3b6af366 27 Fire Fighter 5.75E+09 28 Mr. Postman a7b03aa5 29 Zoo Fun d69fe87c 30 RealSports Volleyball46dd57c5 31 Ram It cc43b359 32 Nuts 340c2659 33 Bank Heist 1961c4df 34 Donkey Kong f331b069 35 Amidar 7af5f00e 36 Save Our Ship 6b7520f4 37 Pelé's Soccer 3f59bb60 38 Panda Chase 08f4cb02 39 Thunderground 524822ef 40 Flash Gordon 0d61ce7d 41 Assault d68c86c7 42 Bermuda 8acc7246 43 Curtiss 0eb1080c 44 Pac-Man 1623dbc0 45 Oink! 6d5fe561 46 Grand Prix 574ad7ee 47 Demolition Herby 654db351 48 Condor Attack e32d146a 49 Spider Fighter 7809f8fd 50 Master Builder e126eeed 51 Farmyard Fun 6d4dc130 52 Boom Bang 6ef0e5dc 53 Great Escape bb0f530d 54 Frogger f5e1af92 55 Pyramid War e141c8ce 56 Laser Gates d5840593 57 Dragon Defender fde923a1 58 Gas Hog 475beab3 59 Seahawk 6f12b370 60 Challenge 086a0cb2 61 Mega Force 9e6ae8c2 62 Mysterious Thief 01956ef5 63 Sky Jinks 78c67d7a 64 Cosmic Ark 27108ca5 65 Frostbite 3cdc8d04 66 Lock 'n' Chase 7994bf16 67 Fast Food e5eff601 68 Commando Raid 63ce5a53 69 Mouse Trap 2e614043 70 Base Attack aacab908 71 Astrowar d7e6ea5e 72 Cross Force 40ac34d6 73 Topy 90eff841 74 Mines of Minos c7fd17e4 75 Word Zapper a11eeeab 76 Fast Eddie 1dac62d7 77 Demon Attack 76148906 78 Plaque Attack 7b9d4c75 79 Sea Monster dfceb688 80 Mafia b17a65e9 81 Atlantis 22d2e4c3 82 Megamania 7d4fc750 83 Infiltrate ad975834 84 Turmoil 30bc25cf 85 Air Raiders a5bd6448 86 Tac-Scan f8f1bad9 87 Trick Shot 6b1d3888 88 Gopher 9aee6020 89 Missile Command cff14904 90 Carnival 7ac3c700 91 Unknown Datatech Game95c37983 92 Inca Gold 5c46b5b5 93 Snail against Squirre26fba22d 94 Barnstorming 0e930fb8 95 Spinning Fireball 07e62964 96 Go Go Home ca1221b7 97 Yars' Revenge d8052d03 98 Missile Control 6ec3a8df 99 Wall Break 7e17aed8 100Space Jockey 9d6097d0 101Planet Patrol 166cc3a8 102The Challenge Of Nexa527421f6 103Spider-Man cf981301 104Space Cavern 4b65ea53 105Phantom Tank bbb854d6 106Cosmic Creeps cbe1770f 107Karate e8c5efad 108Dice Puzzle e1ff5b09 109Exocet 5161a246 110Ski Hunt 47b3236e 111Sneak'n Peek 93b17c39 112StarMaster e55a3ab6 113Berzerk d3f742ee 114Circus Atari a4b9a830 115Name This Game 7db9084f 116Room of Doom 4cc87670 117Tuby Bird 1ca034ca 118Mariana 34e9f4b4 119Frisco c4f16d4d 120Worm War I 495f4784 121M.A.D. 40c5fe36 122Racquetball 7b6eccfd 123The Earth Dies Scream8a6c65f0 124Dark Cavern 0481078c 125TRON - Deadly Discs a52cf15f 126Maze Craze 0098e428 127Immies and Aggies 1df967a1 Atari2600Clone9999BuiltInRoms.zip Edited January 9 by manterola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devwebcl Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) Interesting, we did the same with another pirate clone 2600, but this has only 32k rom with 16 2k known games. https://manillismo.blogspot.com/2022/10/quien-necesita-juegos.html Edited January 9 by devwebcl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) Had this SuperVision cartridge arrive today. The Road Blasters label looks like it was just cut out from a magazine and not the original (I was expecting this to just be Enduro). Inside the case had been chopped to fit a board with an EPROM on it. This is a 32 in 1 cartridge originating from the Middle East. There's 9 unique ROMs on here (see attached) but to me they all look as though they're only the originals or logo changes. The same seller has another one for sale which is just the PCB. I'm be tempted but don't want it if it's the same games list. Road Blasters SuperVison 32 in 1 Unique.zip Edited January 10 by Buckaroo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizzard Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 On 1/8/2024 at 6:32 PM, manterola said: Hi All, Yesterday I was successful in dumping the ROM of my "9999 Games Built In" 2600 Clone machine. I guess with the "9999 games built in" I am leading the competition of the 2600 clone console with more "games" built in Anyway, it has been about 3 or more years that I really wanted to get this ROM image because this console was bought in Chile like 20 years ago, and Chile was part of the NTSC land (before the digital conversion). Then, when I was doing some research, I could not find a picture or mention to this particular ROM chip: 4000-0010N. Notice the "N". All pictures I have found here or in google image search are the same but with a "P" and the chips are from consoles from Central Europe or the PAL size of South America. So, my hope is that this ROM is something different and hopefully the "N" is for NTSC. At least, so far, the order is different to the game lists I have found. Thank you very much for dumping that machine. For me it is extremely inretesting cause I thought those clones were only for PAL system. These games are really NTSC but they are mostly the same as PAL equivalents of the console I had and similar clones. I would say that some games may be even unique, for example Mariana is only PAL version in ROM Hunter's roms and this is NTSC! Also Curtis is only PAL version and this one is also NTSC. I think that also a lot of others games may be some unknown clones or hacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manterola Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 On 1/13/2024 at 1:25 PM, Wizzard said: I would say that some games may be even unique, for example Mariana is only PAL version in ROM Hunter's roms and this is NTSC! Also Curtis is only PAL version and this one is also NTSC. I think that also a lot of others games may be some unknown clones or hacks. Really? Oh that is great. I have a more understanding of Atari 8 bit than 2600 regarding NTSC/PAL differences, but I guess here there is a combination of software and hardware, too. So how do you tell a game is PAL or NTSC beside the fact it runs in a PAL or NTSC system?. Okay maybe I should start a new thread to discuss this matter. So I will ask elsewhere. But I am glad the dump was useful for the community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizzard Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 On 1/15/2024 at 1:10 AM, manterola said: Really? Oh that is great. I have a more understanding of Atari 8 bit than 2600 regarding NTSC/PAL differences, but I guess here there is a combination of software and hardware, too. So how do you tell a game is PAL or NTSC beside the fact it runs in a PAL or NTSC system?. Okay maybe I should start a new thread to discuss this matter. So I will ask elsewhere. But I am glad the dump was useful for the community. When you press Alt+L, Stella will display the information about current game, also PAL or NTSC format. We could also try to check each game according to md5 dump to see if there are some unique roms, I believe, they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizzard Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) @Rom Hunter according to my calculations, 83 from 128 games in that console is UNIQUE: I made md5 comparision using script from Chat GPT: Here is the list: 001_Venture_[85bafb24].bin 003_Racing_Car_[1a89d2aa].bin 006_Keystone_Capers_[e6759e2d].bin 007_Robot_Fight_[384980d7].bin 009_Ice_Hockey_[284ed23e].bin 010_Frogs_and_Flies_[aecc03bc].bin 013_Katastrophen-Einsatz_[eb3f2a02].bin 014_Fantastic_Voyage_[b5628d69].bin 015_Walker_[c77ba76b].bin 016_Pitfall_[bf82552c].bin 018_Pac_Kong_[fa287be8].bin 021_The_Empire_Strikes_Back_[ab7c9fb6].bin 022_Sub-Scan_[ae33c430].bin 023_International_Soccer_[9d61ea04].bin 024_Seaquest_[662d57c0].bin 026_King_Kong_[3b6af366].bin 027_Fire_Fighter_[574528e4].bin 029_Zoo_Fun_[d69fe87c].bin 030_RealSports_Volleyball_[46dd57c5].bin 031_Ram_It_[cc43b359].bin 032_Nuts_[340c2659].bin 036_Save_Our_Ship_[6b7520f4].bin 038_Panda_Chase_[08f4cb02].bin 041_Assault_[d68c86c7].bin 042_Bermuda_[8acc7246].bin 044_Pac-Man_[1623dbc0].bin 045_Oink!_[6d5fe561].bin 046_Grand_Prix_[574ad7ee].bin 047_Demolition_Herby_[654db351].bin 048_Condor_Attack_[e32d146a].bin 050_Master_Builder_[e126eeed].bin 051_Farmyard_Fun_[6d4dc130].bin 053_Great_Escape_[bb0f530d].bin 055_Pyramid_War_[e141c8ce].bin 057_Dragon_Defender_[fde923a1].bin 058_Gas_Hog_[475beab3].bin 059_Seahawk_[6f12b370].bin 062_Mysterious_Thief_[01956ef5].bin 063_Sky_Jinks_[78c67d7a].bin 064_Cosmic_Ark_[27108ca5].bin 065_Frostbite_[3cdc8d04].bin 067_Fast_Food_[e5eff601].bin 068_Commando_Raid_[63ce5a53].bin 069_Mouse_Trap_[2e614043].bin 070_Base_Attack_[aacab908].bin 071_Astrowar_[d7e6ea5e].bin 072_Cross_Force_[40ac34d6].bin 074_Mines_of_Minos_[c7fd17e4].bin 077_Demon_Attack_[76148906].bin 079_Sea_Monster_[dfceb688].bin 080_Mafia_[b17a65e9].bin 082_Megamania_[7d4fc750].bin 083_Infiltrate_[ad975834].bin 085_Air_Raiders_[a5bd6448].bin 086_Tac-Scan_[f8f1bad9].bin 092_Inca_Gold_[5c46b5b5].bin 093_Snail_against_Squirrel_[26fba22d].bin 094_Barnstorming_[0e930fb8].bin 095_Spinning_Fireball_[07e62964].bin 096_Go_Go_Home_[ca1221b7].bin 097_Yars'_Revenge_[d8052d03].bin 098_Missile_Control_[6ec3a8df].bin 099_Wall_Break_[7e17aed8].bin 100_Space_Jockey_[9d6097d0].bin 101_Planet_Patrol_[166cc3a8].bin 102_The_Challenge_Of_Nexar_[527421f6].bin 103_Spider-Man_[cf981301].bin 104_Space_Cavern_[4b65ea53].bin 105_Phantom_Tank_[bbb854d6].bin 106_Cosmic_Creeps_[cbe1770f].bin 107_Karate_[e8c5efad].bin 108_Dice_Puzzle_[e1ff5b09].bin 110_Ski_Hunt_[47b3236e].bin 112_StarMaster_[e55a3ab6].bin 113_Berzerk_[d3f742ee].bin 115_Name_This_Game_[7db9084f].bin 116_Room_of_Doom_[4cc87670].bin 118_Mariana_[34e9f4b4].bin 120_Worm_War_I_[495f4784].bin 121_M.A.D._[40c5fe36].bin 122_Racquetball_[7b6eccfd].bin 125_TRON_-_Deadly_Discs_[a52cf15f].bin 127_Immies_and_Aggies_[1df967a1].bin Also found 3 games from my old Video Computer Console / Video Game System consoles and they are also unique, in attachment. Superman (1979) (Atari) (PAL) [a].bin International Soccer (Unknown) (PAL).bin Cross Force (Unknown) (PAL).bin Edited January 16 by Wizzard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) I checked the differences of the first 12 games. I found three classes of changes: conversion from PAL to NTSC (without adjusting the colors) fixing the NTSC scanline count to be an even value (required for PAL) removal/replacement of original on-screen logos 1. and 2. mean that the games got converted/adjusted to/for PAL-M. Edited January 17 by Thomas Jentzsch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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