Gorf Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Learn Jag RISC assembly and write killer jag apps!!!! (so I dont have to write as many!!! ) I have too many things on my plate to learn yet another platform, but I was under the impression there were weird quirks with the Jag's RISC; people have figured out how to work around them, but the workarounds were not known back-in-the-day. Also, I wouldn't consider the use of the 68000 to be unreasonable if there were anything resembling a reasonable effort to limit bus overhead. The circuitry required for a one-line (8 bytes) read cache would not have been much more extensive than that required to allow even a clunky interface, but such a thing would probably have reduced the 68000's bus overhead by 75%. I wonder why Atari didn't do such a thing? The same reason they screwed up on a lot of things with the Jaguar. Not ready for prime time. The 68k was a mistake. A bad one. YOu dont put a 1/2 speed, 1/4 bus processor in a 64 bit system jut to make programmers comfy. You release the machine to developers with tools able to handle the new technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercat Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 The same reason they screwed up on a lot of things with the Jaguar. Not ready for prime time.The 68k was a mistake. A bad one. YOu dont put a 1/2 speed, 1/4 bus processor in a 64 bit system jut to make programmers comfy. You release the machine to developers with tools able to handle the new technology. What would have been the problem with having a 68000 on the system, if the interface were engineered so that any data read or write takes one high-speed bus cycle (rather than two), and any code read that's in a different 8-byte row from the previous takes one cycle (an read in the same 8-byte row as the previous would take none)? True, the 68000 wouldn't be a speed demon, but the vast majority of code in a game doesn't have to run fast--it just has to run in such a fashion as to not load down too badly the rest of the system. Since Atari was already using custom silicon for the bus interface, adding a one-line code cache plus a word of read latching and a word of write latching would have required only a trivial increase in complexity; do you disagree that the performance improvement from such action would have been huge while the silicon complexity would have been slight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 What would have been the problem with having a 68000 on the system, if the interface were engineered so that any data read or write takes one high-speed bus cycle (rather than two), and any code read that's in a different 8-byte row from the previous takes one cycle (an read in the same 8-byte row as the previous would take none)? It's not how the Memory controller works and not usually how anything works. It's still hitting the bus and because it is the manger which has priority which means it woud not make a diference and only complicate the the already complex circuitry. The Jaguar would have been better off with out it. Take the cost saved with the 68k and spend in on more ram and a small unity cache between the two RISCS. Give the GPU and TOM priority over the DSP which will do sound, translations. All non time critical GPU code out in main RAM. Put 1 meg ona seperate bus for Jerry adn 2 Megs for Tom. The fuggin machine would rock. All this is moot as you still need tools. The only other processor they should have used is another RISC core. Take a Tom and strip all the video and blitter and OPL circuitry. Instead of 4k cache, use 8-16k. I cant begin to tell you the difference that would make. You would have had PS1 and better quality graphics with that kind of choke free bus. True, the 68000 wouldn't be a speed demon, but the vast majority of code in a game doesn't have to run fast--it just has to run in such a fashion as to not load down too badly the rest of the system. Another RISC CORE would have been light years better. Again it al about the fact that when it hits the bus, all the other chips have to wait till it is done. Imagine building a house and all the other workers have to wait around doing nothing while one guys build the foundation. Idiotic, right? No boss would allow that! Why..INEFFECIENT! Those other men can be at another site doing work simultaniously. saving the boss time(cycles) and money (better performance all around by leaps and bound.) In its day, you had no bigger champion of the 68k series than I was. It's day had long come and went and the Jaguar should have put the nail in its coffin. Intead It put the final nail in the Jaguars coffin. Since Atari was already using custom silicon for the bus interface, adding a one-line code cache plus a word of read latching and a word of write latching would have required only a trivial increase in complexity; do you disagree that the performance improvement from such action would have been huge while the silicon complexity would have been slight? Yes I do disagree beacsue Tom and Jerry are not designed to operate in such a fashion. The 68k in the Jag is a mistfit no matter what kind of silicon trickery you want to try. Its too slow and its too narrow. It is holding Tom & Jerry hostage...no better way to put it. the 68k needs to boot the system, start the DSP and GPU, and then execute this instruction... "stop #$2000" That and tools worthy of the RISC's. It's not any simpler and no more complicated than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sd32 Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 I bought Cybermorph (again) because of this topic, and i am loving it!. After the initial set of planets, the game gets really good and i like even the games untextured graphics!, the more you play it, the more the game grows on you. After finishing it, i am going to continue with Battlemorph, a game i have owned for years, but just now got a JAGCD to play it on, haha. By the way, how does IWAR compare with the Morph series, is it similar, and somewhat as good?, if it is, ill hunt down a copy ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Rob Posted July 25, 2007 Author Share Posted July 25, 2007 I bought Cybermorph (again) because of this topic, and i am loving it!. After the initial set of planets, the game gets really good and i like even the games untextured graphics!, the more you play it, the more the game grows on you.After finishing it, i am going to continue with Battlemorph, a game i have owned for years, but just now got a JAGCD to play it on, haha. That's really good to hear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevincal Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Good luck finishing it...lol. The game is a BEAST... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sd32 Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 Yeah, i am only in the third set of levels and i have been playing it for a couple weeks. But i wont give up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevincal Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 Hey I gave ole' Cybermorph a go today and did better than I remember... I made it halfway through the 3rd set of planets before losing all my ships... It really is quite decent being the first Jag game. IWAR has similar graphics but it has some pretty cool music. However, I found the game rather bland and I think the controls aren't as good as Cybermorph. I'd give IWAR a 70% and Cybermorph a 75%...Heck after having more fun with Cybermorph tonight than I ever remember, I'll go ahead and give it an 80% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sd32 Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Well kevincal, one thing is happening here, its either, you are too good a gamer, or i suck. Wich is it?, you tell me!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigurd Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Hey I gave ole' Cybermorph a go today and did better than I remember... I made it halfway through the 3rd set of planets before losing all my ships... It really is quite decent being the first Jag game. IWAR has similar graphics but it has some pretty cool music. However, I found the game rather bland and I think the controls aren't as good as Cybermorph. I'd give IWAR a 70% and Cybermorph a 75%...Heck after having more fun with Cybermorph tonight than I ever remember, I'll go ahead and give it an 80% Now, give me a HoverStrike rate, as I want to get that or Iwar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevincal Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Well kevincal, one thing is happening here, its either, you are too good a gamer, or i suck. Wich is it?, you tell me!. Well I have been playing there here and there since 1994... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevincal Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Hoverstrike CD bored me, kinda like I-WAR... I'd say it's a tossup between the 2 with Cybermorph slightly ahead of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigurd Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Hoverstrike CD bored me, kinda like I-WAR... I'd say it's a tossup between the 2 with Cybermorph slightly ahead of them. Oh that helped alot! I think I will go with just getting both of them! No Hoverstrike CD tho, no Jag CD here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevincal Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Ya, both are pretty cheap...just get both but I'm pretty sure you'll like Cybermorph more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigurd Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Ya, both are pretty cheap...just get both but I'm pretty sure you'll like Cybermorph more. Ya, I do love my Cybermorph, but at least I can cycle between all 3 if I get em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Hoverstrike CD bored me, kinda like I-WAR... I'd say it's a tossup between the 2 with Cybermorph slightly ahead of them. HS like Iwar?....You sure we are talking about the same games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigurd Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Hoverstrike CD bored me, kinda like I-WAR... I'd say it's a tossup between the 2 with Cybermorph slightly ahead of them. HS like Iwar?....You sure we are talking about the same games? What one do you like more Gorf, and how come? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Hoverstrike CD bored me, kinda like I-WAR... I'd say it's a tossup between the 2 with Cybermorph slightly ahead of them. HS like Iwar?....You sure we are talking about the same games? What one do you like more Gorf, and how come? I liked them both but I give the nod to HS....I tend to go with tech achivement as long as the game is fun and I find them both fun. However, HS get's the nod because of its tech and it has a much better ending and it's also bot some decent enemy AI going on. The Hovership is a blast once you get the hang of it. I-War is cool becasue it has a very 'TRON'esque look/feel to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevincal Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Hoverstrike CD bored me, kinda like I-WAR... I'd say it's a tossup between the 2 with Cybermorph slightly ahead of them. HS like Iwar?....You sure we are talking about the same games? I said HS was like IWAR in that both bored me, not that they were that similar of games... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigurd Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Hoverstrike CD bored me, kinda like I-WAR... I'd say it's a tossup between the 2 with Cybermorph slightly ahead of them. HS like Iwar?....You sure we are talking about the same games? What one do you like more Gorf, and how come? I liked them both but I give the nod to HS....I tend to go with tech achivement as long as the game is fun and I find them both fun. However, HS get's the nod because of its tech and it has a much better ending and it's also bot some decent enemy AI going on. The Hovership is a blast once you get the hang of it. I-War is cool becasue it has a very 'TRON'esque look/feel to it. TRON!? I now know what one I will get first! HoverStike ftw! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevincal Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 (edited) Well I beat the 3rd set of planets today and was on the last planet in the 4th set and one of those freakin' worms ran right through me... I'm starting to gain more appreciation for this game the more I play it... It's actually quite rewarding if you stick with it... But I'm still pissed that I gotta beat all the planets in the 4th set again!!! I think I'm gonna bump my rating for this game up to a solid 80%. Edited August 15, 2007 by kevincal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphim Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 This was the first game I played when my Jaguar bundle arrived yesterday. After only an hour and a half of game play, I must admit it isn't this horrible disaster that some have claimed it to be. The flat, shaded look of the game possesses charm and the controls are quite simple. The only real downsides are the framerate and the limited draw distance. Heck, even Skylar is somewhat tolerable (for the first few minutes anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 "Where did you learn to fly?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphim Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 (edited) "Where did you learn to fly?" Ugh, I absolutely hate that line. That and how she'll constantly say "Well done!" when you destroy just one enemy. I have the 1MB version, so I have less Skylar to listen to (a true blessing in disguise). Also forgot to mention how creepy she looks. Scared me to death when I was a kid and was looking into buying a Jaguar. BTW, I take it this is the same doctorclu from OnlineConsoles.com? Edited November 15, 2007 by Seraphim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevincal Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 I think Skylar is rather attractive myself in a Sinead O'Conner/chemo patient kind of way. I kinda like her accent too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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