Would'nt it be cool....

[A Sprite]

 

Here's mine.

Edited September 25, 2007 by A Sprite

[Gorf]

 

Here's mine.

 

 

You need to edit that...you need a cart for the border....(steal it from one of mine..

[JagChris]

 

Here's mine.

 

Thats a good one Sprite!

[Gorf]

Yar is easily one of the best 2600 games ever.

[A Sprite]

 

Here's mine.

 

 

You need to edit that...you need a cart for the border....(steal it from one of mine..

 

Thanks, but my pic is just an ad for the cart. I'll need to find another design for the cartridge itself.

 

Thats a good one Sprite!

 

Thank you.

[A Sprite]

 

How's this? Still looking for font for the title..

Edited September 25, 2007 by A Sprite

[Gorf]

 

How's this? Still looking for font for the title..

 

Careful what you wish for....

[A Sprite]

 

How's this? Still looking for font for the title..

 

Careful what you wish for....

 

Is it really that bad? Be cruel, I can take it.

Edited September 26, 2007 by A Sprite

[spiffyone]

unfortunately a majority of this jag forum would be gone if everyone had only something "constructive" to say. i'm entitled to my opinion....

 

 

You know, I've noticed that he seems to post whenever someone responds to him. Maybe if we ignore him, he'll quit!!

 

Back to our regularly scheduled thread.................

 

Otherwise known as "don't feed the trolls".

 

Seriously, don't feed the trolls.

[spiffyone]

This one is for A Sprite [spiffyone.

 

When you sit and really think about it....this could have been a pack in.

 

 

Eh...I don't think it could have been a pack in, tbqh. Even in this fantasy topic we have to remember that the tools weren't there yet to get really good stuff out of the Jag when it was first released.

 

Unless, of course, we're also imagining that the tools were there, in which case...maybe.

 

I dunno. I'd rather Adventure 2000/3D have been released in late '94, right when Saturn and Playstation were released in Japan. A game like that during that time might've actually moved some Jaguar units in Japan. I know it certainly would have in the NA and PAL markets.

 

Why late '94 instead of launch in '93?

 

Simple: steal some thunder from the newly released consoles. Sure, Saturn and PSone had Panzer Dragoon and (wait for it...wait for it...) RRRRRIIIIIIDDDDGGGGGEEE RRRRRRAAAACCCCCCEEEEERRRRR!, but they didn't have anything like a deep, large scale, and next gen action/adventure game at that time, and both really wouldn't until Tomb Raider (which, iirc, was also in development on Jag CD). As a 3DO Multiplayer owner,I can safely state that there really weren't any large scale action/adventure games on that console at all (just smaller scale "survival horror" action/adventure games like Alone in the Dark and stuff like Doctor Hauzer and Casper).

 

Hell, Nintendo didn't have a large scale action/adventure game until Ocarina of Time later in the N64's life cycle. And Adventure 2000/3D would have been. in my mind as I imagine it, Ocarina of Time a few years before Ocarina of Time. A "3D" 3rd person action/adventure update of a classic 2D action/adventure series.

[Gorf]

Eh...I don't think it could have been a pack in, tbqh. Even in this fantasy topic we have to remember that the tools weren't there yet to get really good stuff out of the Jag when it was first released.

 

 

Though I know you would think that, allow me to explain why that is incorrect.

Im going to use the pack-in that did come with the Jaguar Cybermorph (CM)

to help illustrate my rebutal. Though the Jaguar tools were lacking, Adventure

is by far a lot less proccesor intensive than Cybermorph. It is also a 4k game.

There is nothing to it coding wise. I have similar types of games in the work,

much moer complex than Adventure is but they are not terrible by any means.

 

Aventure could have been EASILY done and in a lot less time than Cybermorph.

Also you have to realize that Cybermorph is using a fractal map and ON THE FLY

generating a landscape from it. Essentially, CM is similar to a height field or voxel

map but instead of drawing z sorted vertical lines to build it's display, it draws

polygons.

 

Adventure is similar but it uses a much less complex map. That fractal map in CM

is rather impressive....it is a BIG reason why I laugh at people who compare it with

Star Fox. Sure argue game play all you want but there aint no SNES that will ever

be able to compute a fracatal landscape unless you dont mind 1 frame an hour.

 

 

Unless, of course, we're also imagining that the tools were there, in which case...maybe.

I dunno. I'd rather Adventure 2000/3D have been released in late '94, right when Saturn and Playstation were released in Japan. A game like that during that time might've actually moved some Jaguar units in Japan. I know it certainly would have in the NA and PAL markets.

 

 

 

I think more folks here will agree that a Jaguar release with a Aventure 3D pack in

would have generated TONS more interest and sales than CM did. Stay tooned

(as in looney tooned. ) It could have been great to see that and at least another

dozen simple games converted to 3D. Here are my estimates porting arcade classics

to 3D for the Jaguar.

 

My list of games that should have been released with the Jaguar and timeline to code them.

I think we'd be playing Jaguar V right now if they went more like the following...

 

Im talking no major changes but some interesting additons maybe to these games

OTHER than 3D. Deluxe versions could have always been released later. Im being

REAL generous wth time too.

 

Adventure 3D as the packin.

 

These released with in two months of the Jaguar.....

 

1 ) Asteroids ...less than a month

2 ) Centipede ...month (and not that POS Centipede3D they did release, yikes and yuk!)

3 ) Lunar Lander ...couple days maybe?

4 ) Video Olympics ...days

5 ) Target Fun ...weeks

6 ) Combat ...days..weeks with networking

7 ) BattleZone ... month... NOT HoverStrike but BattleZone in 3D.

8 ) I,Robot ...month

9 ) Gravitar two months

10 ) Warlords few weeks with networking even

11 ) Avalance....few hours?..um its kaboom before Activision stole it.

12 ) Night Driver days

13 ) Starship....weeks maybe days only

14 ) Space Duel...month or two..this one is more than just a fancy Asteroids code wise.

 

Then Tempest2k would have been right after the last on this list and not a take

forever dryspell for a new relase like Tempest2k was.

 

If they did stuff like this,Im suer A LOT more Atari fans would have bought one

at release. I do not beleive a lot of diehrad Atari fans were ready to be burned

once again.

 

Now you have bought yourself more time.......

 

You also have more income instead of having months of lost sales due to no releases.

that means more money to pay more developers and they would have been able to

pay Brainstorm to Improve and update the tools.Then you hit then after this excellent

black eye to all other game companies with the following titles

 

AVP(would have been faster as more code would have been moved to

the GPU becasue they would have had more time.)

 

Agent X (could have been a real strong FPS for Jaguar)

Black Widow (had the Jag's name written all over it)

Millipede

Missile Command 3D

 

Now you also have the third parties interest becasue the Jaguar is selling as it

should have.

 

You cant expect 4 titles to carry you over for cash for months on end.

Im telling you, this was the problem.

[phuzaxeman]

Eh...I don't think it could have been a pack in, tbqh. Even in this fantasy topic we have to remember that the tools weren't there yet to get really good stuff out of the Jag when it was first released.

 

 

Though I know you would think that, allow me to explain why that is incorrect.

Im going to use the pack-in that did come with the Jaguar Cybermorph (CM)

to help illustrate my rebutal. Though the Jaguar tools were lacking, Adventure

is by far a lot less proccesor intensive than Cybermorph. It is also a 4k game.

There is nothing to it coding wise. I have similar types of games in the work,

much moer complex than Adventure is but they are not terrible by any means.

 

Aventure could have been EASILY done and in a lot less time than Cybermorph.

Also you have to realize that Cybermorph is using a fractal map and ON THE FLY

generating a landscape from it. Essentially, CM is similar to a height field or voxel

map but instead of drawing z sorted vertical lines to build it's display, it draws

polygons.

 

Adventure is similar but it uses a much less complex map. That fractal map in CM

is rather impressive....it is a BIG reason why I laugh at people who compare it with

Star Fox. Sure argue game play all you want but there aint no SNES that will ever

be able to compute a fracatal landscape unless you dont mind 1 frame an hour.

 

 

Unless, of course, we're also imagining that the tools were there, in which case...maybe.

I dunno. I'd rather Adventure 2000/3D have been released in late '94, right when Saturn and Playstation were released in Japan. A game like that during that time might've actually moved some Jaguar units in Japan. I know it certainly would have in the NA and PAL markets.

 

 

 

I think more folks here will agree that a Jaguar release with a Aventure 3D pack in

would have generated TONS more interest and sales than CM did. Stay tooned

(as in looney tooned. ) It could have been great to see that and at least another

dozen simple games converted to 3D. Here are my estimates porting arcade classics

to 3D for the Jaguar.

 

My list of games that should have been released with the Jaguar and timeline to code them.

I think we'd be playing Jaguar V right now if they went more like the following...

 

Im talking no major changes but some interesting additons maybe to these games

OTHER than 3D. Deluxe versions could have always been released later. Im being

REAL generous wth time too.

 

Adventure 3D as the packin.

 

These released with in two months of the Jaguar.....

 

1 ) Asteroids ...less than a month

2 ) Centipede ...month (and not that POS Centipede3D they did release, yikes and yuk!)

3 ) Lunar Lander ...couple days maybe?

4 ) Video Olympics ...days

5 ) Target Fun ...weeks

6 ) Combat ...days..weeks with networking

7 ) BattleZone ... month... NOT HoverStrike but BattleZone in 3D.

8 ) I,Robot ...month

9 ) Gravitar two months

10 ) Warlords few weeks with networking even

11 ) Avalance....few hours?..um its kaboom before Activision stole it.

12 ) Night Driver days

13 ) Starship....weeks maybe days only

14 ) Space Duel...month or two..this one is more than just a fancy Asteroids code wise.

 

Then Tempest2k would have been right after the last on this list and not a take

forever dryspell for a new relase like Tempest2k was.

 

If they did stuff like this,Im suer A LOT more Atari fans would have bought one

at release. I do not beleive a lot of diehrad Atari fans were ready to be burned

once again.

 

Now you have bought yourself more time.......

 

You also have more income instead of having months of lost sales due to no releases.

that means more money to pay more developers and they would have been able to

pay Brainstorm to Improve and update the tools.Then you hit then after this excellent

black eye to all other game companies with the following titles

 

AVP(would have been faster as more code would have been moved to

the GPU becasue they would have had more time.)

 

Agent X (could have been a real strong FPS for Jaguar)

Black Widow (had the Jag's name written all over it)

Millipede

Missile Command 3D

 

Now you also have the third parties interest becasue the Jaguar is selling as it

should have.

 

You cant expect 4 titles to carry you over for cash for months on end.

Im telling you, this was the problem.

 

regardless of tools or number of games released, bottom line is if most of the quality of games released were along the same lines of what was released back in the jaguars time, it would be only a matter of time for the jag and atari to eventually end....

 

furthermore, it has been proven through the 5200 and 7800, that remakes (how many versions of centipede do we need to buy?) alone cant make a system. innovation through new games and designs, plus advertising do.

 

back in the mid 90's, fight games were one the hottest games (mk, sf, snk, virtual fighter) and the jag had none. plus, sport games sold well too. jag had 1 good one (nba jam) while other systems were enjoying a complete line on EA sports.

 

nintendo had mario and zelda, sega had sonic, sony had final fantasy and gran tourismo, xbox has halo, by the 90's atari had really nothing to grasp on in terms of a game that atari stood (and bank) for like the other systems. i would have loved to see adventure, but not having mkII, street fighter, and/or other hits and the majority of mediocore jag releases hurt atari.

 

in hindsight and imho, atari would have been better if they kept and redesigned the lynx, with its great software line, and designed a smaller and lighter lynx III that included a longer life battery system (that's why people bought the gameboy)...with a higher res screen. atari left the lynx hangin....the profits from the lynx could have led to a better released jaguar campaign.

Edited September 27, 2007 by phuzaxeman

[Gorf]

regardless of tools or number of games released, bottom line is if most of the quality of games released were along

the same lines of what was released back in the jaguars time, it would be only a matter of time for the jag and atari

to eventually end....

 

I am talking games on the level of Cybermorph like feel using very simple games such as those on the list

and 3D-izing and using old arcade with new sounds and a few special effects would have did wonders.

 

Come on....Trevor? Dino Dudes? Raiden was the ONLY title that anyone else would recognize when the Jaguar was released.

The you have the forever delay of months of no games. I am quite sure the above outlined plan would have faired better.

I feel the industy would have been less cruel to atari..and yes Atari would have gotten a few slaps for using the familiar line,

but they still work even to this day and would have done much better for them. I also belive that even though they would have

been ragged on for using the same titles, they would be much better respceted for a better effort. again..all this to buy time to

afford the tools being updated. Then the 68k heavy coded tiles could have been redone on a properly written assembler for the

GPU and DSP.

 

furthermore, it has been proven through the 5200 and 7800, that remakes (how many versions of centipede do we need to buy?) alone cant make a system. innovation through new games and designs, plus advertising do.

 

Both of these systems were corporate blunders. It would not have mattered what titles and here is why...

 

The 5200 was a controller issue/ gee, revamped 8bit games. I knew this machine was doomed from the get go.

A lot of Atari die hards like myself laughed at that machine becasue we had 8 bits and knew what is really was.

The lack of inovation had NOTHING to do with the games here....trying to sell an old tech as a next gen vid console

device to fans of Atari...very educated people when it comes to Atari and its history. That was the lack of innovation

here, not the games.

 

The 7800 was a little too late issue. This machine had plenty of promise but to wait two years AFTER NES is

your reason why. NES may never have seen the day. Atari was presented by Nintedo with the NES to make it

Atari's next home console. Atari rejected it becasue the 7800 was already ready to go. However, instead of

releasing the7800 right after that, greedy jack ass stupid Atari decided they were going to milk life and limb

from the 2600....hence the wonderful crash of the industry, where Nintendo was already building good customer

relations and getting ready to revive the industry as they eventually did.

 

It had nothing to do with the games. Those games are still loved today. Done back in the Jaguar days in 3D would have

been all the innovation you needed...not one else could do this beside 3D0 at the time. There would have been nothing like

them. Familiar well loved games with a new dimension. Just like New versions of any classic, Mario, Pac man or anyof those

dont right will always draw a huge crowd. There has been some awful attempts at this. Innovation ruined them. You dont

mess with a formula that works.

 

back in the mid 90's, fight games were one the hottest games (mk, sf, snk, virtual fighter) and the jag had none. plus, sport games sold well too. jag had 1 good one (nba jam) while other systems were enjoying a complete line on EA sports.

 

Maybe the hotest but it does not exclude the viability of the other genre's...fun is fun.

 

nintendo had mario and zelda, sega had sonic, sony had final fantasy and gran tourismo, xbox has halo, by the 90's atari had really nothing to grasp on in terms of a game that atari stood (and bank) for like the other systems. i would have loved to see adventure, but not having mkII, street fighter, and/or other hits and the majority of mediocore jag releases hurt atari.

 

Not having those other games would not have been an issue. Jag would have seen these other games

and other companies taking Atari more seriously. But how can you take a company seriously when they

are openly shooting themselves in thier own feet, time after time after time. The Jag was all the machine

it needed to be. the problem is Atari was not all the game company IT neede to be. It failed because Atari

forgot who they were.

 

 

in hindsight and imho, atari would have been better if they kept and redesigned the lynx, with its great software line, and designed a smaller and lighter lynx III that included a longer life battery system (that's why people bought the gameboy)...with a higher res screen. atari left the lynx hangin....the profits from the lynx could have led to a better released jaguar campaign.

 

 

Yes. The lynx was already out there and all that Jagur crap could have been getting debugged and tools made

and 50 excellent quality titles ready to release, while the Lynx was keeping them alive.

 

the wasted too much time in the computer industry, completely forgeting the very products that made them who they were.

 

The very products would have saved them...instead they wanted to be some one thery were'nt.

 

 

Just great like music, great game ideas never get old so you wont soon convince me the

repeat of great clasic games had anything to do with the bad decison making on Atair's part.

They had all the right parts and all the wrong ideas on what to do with them.

[Gorf]

Might I add...if you really believe the old games dont have great appeal, just read half the threads in any of the forums.

You'll see many folks wishing to see thiese games done right using tdays technology.

[EmOneGarand]

Might I add...if you really believe the old games dont have great appeal, just read half the threads in any of the forums.

You'll see many folks wishing to see thiese games done right using tdays technology.

Todays Technology + Original Gameplay = good idea

 

Newer Tech. + Weird and out of place gameplay = New Pong, the one where you played as the damn paddle in an adventure setting oh my god, what the hell were they thinking??

Edited September 27, 2007 by EmOneGarand

[Sigurd]

Might I add...if you really believe the old games dont have great appeal, just read half the threads in any of the forums.

You'll see many folks wishing to see thiese games done right using tdays technology.

Todays Technology + Original Gameplay = good idea

 

Newer Tech. + Weird and out of place gameplay = New Pong, the one where you played as the damn paddle in an adventure setting oh my god, what the hell were they thinking??

 

Crack, they were all on crack.

[phuzaxeman]

Might I add...if you really believe the old games dont have great appeal, just read half the threads in any of the forums.

You'll see many folks wishing to see thiese games done right using tdays technology.

 

i didn't say they didn't have appeal. i'd love to have seen a ton of new remakes. i just don't feel that the remakes alone could have keeped up with the competition.

 

the other problem with atari back in the day was advertising and distribution. workin at a retail store back when all these came out when i was a teen, there wasn't any jag carts for sale in the major stores (unlike nintendo and sega). so it was hard to get a hold of atari games. i remember being a bit frustrated.....

Edited September 27, 2007 by phuzaxeman

[Gorf]

Might I add...if you really believe the old games dont have great appeal, just read half the threads in any of the forums.

You'll see many folks wishing to see thiese games done right using tdays technology.

 

i didn't say they didn't have appeal. i'd love to have seen a ton of new remakes. i just don't feel that the remakes alone could have keeped up with the competition.

 

the other problem with atari back in the day was advertising and distribution. workin at a retail store back when all these came out when i was a teen, there wasn't any jag carts for sale in the major stores (unlike nintendo and sega). so it was hard to get a hold of atari games. i remember being a bit frustrated.....

 

 

Let's face it though with all the faults of managment turned right, I dont think the games would even matter as long

as they were decent and plentiful, classic or not, or at very least a lot more titles that actually looked and played

well beyond what most titles did. The handful of good ones were certainly worthy of next generation , however, they

were too little too late.

[spiffyone]

furthermore, it has been proven through the 5200 and 7800, that remakes (how many versions of centipede do we need to buy?) alone cant make a system. innovation through new games and designs, plus advertising do.

 

Advertising, yes.

 

But innovation through new games and designs? Not really.

 

Mostly each gen has the same base gameplay from the previous gens, with a few extra sprinkles.

 

Legend of Zelda NES is pretty much Adventure, but with better graphics and a bigger map and slightly deeper gameplay. Link to the Past is NES Zelda, with better graphics and bigger map and better movement options and slightly deeper gameplay. Ocarina of Time is Link to the Past, with newer graphics (3D polys), bigger map, better movement options, deeper gameplay. Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, etc. etc. etc.

 

Seriously, new ideas are very few and far in between. It's the illusion of having "new" things that captures consumers.

 

And, indeed, Adventure in 3D, during the mid '90s, would've been seen just as new as Ocarina of Time was on N64, years before Ocarina of Time, which itself wasn't really all that new. It was the old...with new window dressing.

[Gorf]

And, indeed, Adventure in 3D, during the mid '90s, would've been seen just as new as Ocarina of Time was on N64, years before Ocarina of Time, which itself wasn't really all that new. It was the old...with new window dressing.

 

Adventure 3D today would be a very popular hit with the right marketing.

The ads would have to remind the Adventure generation that its indeed

that game Atari was releasing. Oh well, so much for doing things with common

sense. Im maintain that this would have helped and even saved the Jaguar

long enough for Jaguar II...playstations nightmare...and yes, the Oberon

alone will crush the playstation. This should have been the JAguar one.

[Gorf]

DEAR LORD!!!

 

I can't beleive it's 3:20 AM! ...well..ive had enough of this crap for one evening.

Good nite all.

[phuzaxeman]

furthermore, it has been proven through the 5200 and 7800, that remakes (how many versions of centipede do we need to buy?) alone cant make a system. innovation through new games and designs, plus advertising do.

 

Advertising, yes.

 

But innovation through new games and designs? Not really.

 

Mostly each gen has the same base gameplay from the previous gens, with a few extra sprinkles.

 

Legend of Zelda NES is pretty much Adventure, but with better graphics and a bigger map and slightly deeper gameplay. Link to the Past is NES Zelda, with better graphics and bigger map and better movement options and slightly deeper gameplay. Ocarina of Time is Link to the Past, with newer graphics (3D polys), bigger map, better movement options, deeper gameplay. Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, etc. etc. etc.

 

Seriously, new ideas are very few and far in between. It's the illusion of having "new" things that captures consumers.

 

And, indeed, Adventure in 3D, during the mid '90s, would've been seen just as new as Ocarina of Time was on N64, years before Ocarina of Time, which itself wasn't really all that new. It was the old...with new window dressing.

 

MK fighting with the fatalities was a complete sellout back in the early 90's. you had a ton of quarters with a bunch of people lined up. street fighter II with that fighting system revolutionized the fighting game era. i remember seeing two lines (player 1 side and player 2 side at my college campus) both those games changed fighting games period and no two fighting games in the arcade caused so much attention back in those days.

 

sports? madden football change and revolutionized the home sports era. tecmo bowl was making a killing, and madden football plus the national madden challenge tournament across the US was crazy. a complete new era of sports.

 

innovation? how does a company compete with the 360 and ps3 technology? The Wii has sold more units in North America than the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 combined in the first half of 2007. Nintendo went the other way with creative technology/design and games while maintaining its identity.

 

creation and innovation does have its place. had atari backed up their works of art of video game consoles, they'd still be around today...easily.

[Gorf]

creation and innovation does have its place. had atari backed up their works of art of video game consoles, they'd still be around today...easily.

 

 

no one will argue(unless they are idiotic) that the newer titles would have helped

but they could have been in the making while releasing the classic updates which

would have been a lot more titles to sell at launch.

[A Sprite]

furthermore, it has been proven through the 5200 and 7800, that remakes (how many versions of centipede do we need to buy?) alone cant make a system. innovation through new games and designs, plus advertising do.

 

Advertising, yes.

 

But innovation through new games and designs? Not really.

 

Mostly each gen has the same base gameplay from the previous gens, with a few extra sprinkles.

 

Legend of Zelda NES is pretty much Adventure, but with better graphics and a bigger map and slightly deeper gameplay. Link to the Past is NES Zelda, with better graphics and bigger map and better movement options and slightly deeper gameplay. Ocarina of Time is Link to the Past, with newer graphics (3D polys), bigger map, better movement options, deeper gameplay. Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, etc. etc. etc.

 

Seriously, new ideas are very few and far in between. It's the illusion of having "new" things that captures consumers.

 

And, indeed, Adventure in 3D, during the mid '90s, would've been seen just as new as Ocarina of Time was on N64, years before Ocarina of Time, which itself wasn't really all that new. It was the old...with new window dressing.

 

MK fighting with the fatalities was a complete sellout back in the early 90's. you had a ton of quarters with a bunch of people lined up. street fighter II with that fighting system revolutionized the fighting game era. i remember seeing two lines (player 1 side and player 2 side at my college campus) both those games changed fighting games period and no two fighting games in the arcade caused so much attention back in those days.

 

sports? madden football change and revolutionized the home sports era. tecmo bowl was making a killing, and madden football plus the national madden challenge tournament across the US was crazy. a complete new era of sports.

 

innovation? how does a company compete with the 360 and ps3 technology? The Wii has sold more units in North America than the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 combined in the first half of 2007. Nintendo went the other way with creative technology/design and games while maintaining its identity.

 

creation and innovation does have its place. had atari backed up their works of art of video game consoles, they'd still be around today...easily.

 

Would a good console and innovative games be enough? Atari still suffered from short term decision making, and a failure to reward their best programmers. With a strategy of releasing enhanced versions of classic games, they'd still be where they were when they released the 7800...

 

And, indeed, Adventure in 3D, during the mid '90s, would've been seen just as new as Ocarina of Time was on N64, years before Ocarina of Time, which itself wasn't really all that new. It was the old...with new window dressing.

 

Atari published Highlander in 1995. It's not too far removed from being an Adventure update...

Edited October 2, 2007 by A Sprite

[Gorf]

Would a good console and innovative games be enough? Atari still suffered from short term decision making, and a failure to reward their best programmers. With a strategy of releasing enhanced versions of classic games, they'd still be where they were when they released the 7800...

 

 

Of course it is not enough. You have to reward your coders and even throw them bonuses when the games they

write do well for you. We know Atari were a bunch of horses patoots the way they handled...like...everything. let's

face it my idea could not be much worse then the route they already took, dont you think? Perfect alternative?

No! But one that might have stretched JAguar's viability just long enough to get to Oberon....the PS1 killer.