How would folks feel.

[Gorf]

Don't websites like Gametap already have services like that? It's really only a matter of time until stuff like Television, Movies, games, music, etc. are paid for with a monthly fee. Imagine paying $100 a month and being able to play Ghost's & Goblins and then when you're done with that you can move on to Halo 3. After that you can watch your favorite episode of the Office or the Dick Van Dyke show. It's almost there....

 

 

Right but it just needs to be done so the IP owners feel safe as well as be profitable.

Edited October 4, 2007 by Gorf

[stirrell]

Don't websites like Gametap already have services like that? It's really only a matter of time until stuff like Television, Movies, games, music, etc. are paid for with a monthly fee. Imagine paying $100 a month and being able to play Ghost's & Goblins and then when you're done with that you can move on to Halo 3. After that you can watch your favorite episode of the Office or the Dick Van Dyke show. It's almost there....

 

Yes, Gametap does offer quite a few Atari 2600 games, classic arcade games, newer games... they seem to have quite a variety of stuff. I would think, though, that you're just renting the games from Gametap and that if you canceled your subscription, you'd lose access to the games much like subscription-based music services. I think I like the idea of buying games, myself.

 

Unfortunately, I don't see this idea happening unless perhaps a company built an iTunes-like store and set it up and then negotiated the catalogs with these companies. An Atari Age online store for digital downloads would be cool. Or if Nintendo expanded their virtual console to include other systems. Sony and Microsoft could do something like that too. Ideally, I would like a way to play all these classics legally on a television from the comfort of a recliner.

[Trip_Cannon]

I don't use gametap but I thought they had an option that let's their customers buy the games. Like you said for the most part you're "renting."

[Gorf]

Well....the best thing to do is to think of ways to do this that everyone involved could live with.

I mean also, lets face it...it's only a matter of time before teh conmpanies recognize the

marketability of these IP's and start doing something wth them to protect them better.

You can't beleive that just because most companies have been silent, that they are not

working on ways to get back control of it. I'd be suprised if they were'nt quite honestly.

[Goochman]

I should add I like the idea of game packs , whomever it was that mentioned that

Say for like...I dunno, $9.95 for a dozen games? There is no packaing or other

expenses other than the needed drive space on the server so it could be profitable.

 

That would be me - old stuff only sells in packages now - unless its Battlesphere or Gorf CD

[Pete5125]

I hate to say the other guy was right, but he was....Nothing personal but why would anyone want to pay for Jag rom's for the computer. Very few of the Jag games were exclusives, and even then the Jag Controller would be hard to mimic on the computer. I would say the best bet for your average Jag consumer would be that CF thing that everyone is talking about if you could download roms into that and play them on the Jag then that is an option....or If I had the option on the Nintendo Wii I could see paying to download.

 

The point as I see it is I will buy NBA JAM for $20 to $50 because it is cool that it came out that good on the JAG and I get a cart and a box(for collecting purposes it means alot)...but pay to download it when I could find the arcade perfect version elsewhere on the internet....I can't imagine doing that.

 

Most of the better games on the Jag were already released by Atari for the PC or Saturn/PS1...the 16 bit titles were almost exact copies from their 16 bit counter parts...then their are the games that were awful and only made the little bit of money that they did because if you have a jag and you are a collector then you will buy every game made for the system.

 

On the other hand w/ this same argument I could see buying some of these titles from the Vrtual console by Wii only because some people out their may want to experience the system they never owned....I bought some TG-16 games that I would of never purchased for this very reason.

 

I know that I am rambling but all in all I can not see people purchasing these as computer roms....

[Artlover]

You can't beleive that just because most companies have been silent, that they are not

working on ways to get back control of it. I'd be suprised if they were'nt quite honestly.

Which is why music artists have been abandonding the RIAA and BPI for years.

 

Why artists like Jason Mraz, Steve Winwood and Heart (amung others) have actively fought AGAINST the lawsuits against P2P saying P2P not only DOESNT hurt their sales but gives them even more exposure.

 

Why groups like RadioHead let the buyer choose how much they want to pay for their music.

 

Why iTunes has done away with DRM.

 

Why shareware/freeware programmers exist.

 

Sorry, but the truth is, not every IP owner is so stuck up on control as you and some others around here are. Some of them actually do care more about spreading their creations then anything else.

[Goochman]

Pete5125 - the idea about buying the Roms is so you will legally be intitled to use it with your JagCF or for any other emulation type use..............

 

The RIAA is in trouble these days - the only muscians fighting against piracy are the mega bands whose recording companies are able to dominate that airwaves and give them exclusives. Many of the artists outside of this group like the exposure they are getting since in its current state they are blocked from the fans they so crave. Of course this isnt 100% for everyone, but the RIAA could be disbanded in the near future.

[Atariboy]

After the reaction of some to the CF, can you imagine their reaction to a Jaguar emulator?

 

This idea is absurb, why would a company like Midway make available their roms for use on basically just this device and sell perhaps 10 roms. I doubt any of these companies could care less about their Jaguar properties. If they're even aware they had developed for it in the past, I bet they'd prefer that it be forgotten due to the system's reputation with the general public.

[Gorf]

Why artists like Jason Mraz, Steve Winwood and Heart (amung others) have actively fought AGAINST

 

 

All of these people tend to be very socialist so it's not suprising to me. They

tens not to beleive in ownership. I however do.

 

If those folks want to give away their art, let them, but don't go labeling others

that feel otherwise and obviously put a higher value on their work than these

people do as 'stuck up' and 'control' happy. You know NOTHING about me other

than what you 'think' you read about me here.

 

Go and see Surrounded! for something we gave to the community for free,

or visit the playground on JSII for FREE programming advice and lessons that I

take a lot of time to work up. It helps to actually know what you are taking about.

this is my profession.

 

I want you to go to work and every week pass out your paycheck equally to

everyone in the Jaguar community and in turn I'll personally give you a free

copy of any one of the game we release....deal? I highly doubt it.

 

Sorry, but the truth is, not every IP owner is so stuck up on control as you and some others around here are. Some of them actually do care more about spreading their creations then anything else.

 

Call it stuck up or whatever you want but three socialist thinking artists are hardly enough

to convince anyone with enough common sense to understand the hard work involved and

the simple fact that out side of the Jaguar world I make a living coding.

 

If im going to bother spending month upon month of time just so YOU all can play games,

I think I should get a little back for it. It takes a large chunk out of my time and my other

meanigful necessary duties. There are two other guys and they deserve something for

their efforts, hobby system or not. It's clear to me that there are just a lot of dishonest

people out there who are just plain inconsiderate moochers.

 

With all that said, if I charge a certain price for something and someone downloads

a rip of it then they are stealing, like it or not it is a crime, no matter how you try to

condone it or make ME look like the bad guy, it is what it is. A criminal act.

[Gorf]

I hate to say the other guy was right, but he was....Nothing personal but why would anyone want to pay for Jag rom's for the computer. Very few of the Jag games were exclusives, and even then the Jag Controller would be hard to mimic on the computer. I would say the best bet for your average Jag consumer would be that CF thing that everyone is talking about if you could download roms into that and play them on the Jag then that is an option....or If I had the option on the Nintendo Wii I could see paying to download.

 

The point as I see it is I will buy NBA JAM for $20 to $50 because it is cool that it came out that good on the JAG and I get a cart and a box(for collecting purposes it means alot)...but pay to download it when I could find the arcade perfect version elsewhere on the internet....I can't imagine doing that.

 

Most of the better games on the Jag were already released by Atari for the PC or Saturn/PS1...the 16 bit titles were almost exact copies from their 16 bit counter parts...then their are the games that were awful and only made the little bit of money that they did because if you have a jag and you are a collector then you will buy every game made for the system.

 

On the other hand w/ this same argument I could see buying some of these titles from the Vrtual console by Wii only because some people out their may want to experience the system they never owned....I bought some TG-16 games that I would of never purchased for this very reason.

 

I know that I am rambling but all in all I can not see people purchasing these as computer roms....

 

 

There is a pro and a con to everything and this is no different. Again, the ideas I have

would be a little different then using exsisting emulators in the first place.

[Greenious]

Buying just the roms would be an interesting option, although personally I already own all jaguar games (plus a few more) that has images floating around on the internet. (Most of them are cheap enough for anyone to buy, and plentiful)

 

But if there was a legit way of buying a rom-image of the games I haven't been able to afford and/or extremely rare, and the price was reasonable, I sure would buy the ones I want.

 

Then we'd have the problem of playing them on a jaguar, since there is no viable way atm without forking out a ton of money.

 

And no, I'm not particularly interested in playing them in an emulator. Personally I find emulators lacking soul and feeling. Besides, I think that if I was the kind of guy that would be happy with an emulator, I wouldn't be into jaguar at all.

[Gorf]

Buying just the roms would be an interesting option, although personally I already own all jaguar games (plus a few more) that has images floating around on the internet. (Most of them are cheap enough for anyone to buy, and plentiful)

 

But if there was a legit way of buying a rom-image of the games I haven't been able to afford and/or extremely rare, and the price was reasonable, I sure would buy the ones I want.

 

Then we'd have the problem of playing them on a jaguar, since there is no viable way atm without forking out a ton of money.

 

And no, I'm not particularly interested in playing them in an emulator. Personally I find emulators lacking soul and feeling. Besides, I think that if I was the kind of guy that would be happy with an emulator, I wouldn't be into jaguar at all.

 

 

Again....it does not have to be for the Jaguar console only or even at all. Tehre are alot more dormant classics from many systems that could be great to have this part of. And yeah, emu's do kind of leave

things to be desired but the kind of emu I am talking about definitely WONT leave you cold. But I do

understand how you feel. Being part of the mame team a long time ago, I worked with Nicoli to get

Gorf working and Im still not happy with it at all. Gorf CD when presented to Midway was thoght to

be emulated. I had to convince them it was'nt. I wont tell you how as there are suprises in gorf...

many suprises besides the game it self. If somehow Gorf ever gets reelased again(I highly doubt it

though) I dont want to ruin the fun.

[phuzaxeman]

while i understand and see the comparison from the game industry and music industry, they both still have a lot of differences. i wouldn't want to get caught up in using the comparisons because in the totality of it all, they really are different despite the similarities.

 

the music industry is much more in depth and complicated (all from a local, regional, to national level), much more historical, diverse, and deals with a lot more money (i.e., worldwide sales from the beatles alone were over 500 million in 72'), not to mention dealing with issues like royalties, record labels, investors, ownership, distribution, shows, radio, itunes/mp3, and organizations (i.e., ascap) to name a few.

Edited October 5, 2007 by phuzaxeman

[phuzaxeman]

You can't beleive that just because most companies have been silent, that they are not

working on ways to get back control of it. I'd be suprised if they were'nt quite honestly.

Which is why music artists have been abandonding the RIAA and BPI for years.

 

Why artists like Jason Mraz, Steve Winwood and Heart (amung others) have actively fought AGAINST the lawsuits against P2P saying P2P not only DOESNT hurt their sales but gives them even more exposure.

 

mraz and winwood have similar views on the issues of p2p. why not? both need the promotion and winwood is past his days of multi platinum and #1 hits. regardless, an artist like winwood stays alive in the scene and makes up in tours and merch. he's made his millions already...

 

wilson sisters have a different view. both support p2p legal entitites that help pay the artist. there is huge difference....

 

and like my comment prior, the gaming and music industries are different.

Edited October 5, 2007 by phuzaxeman

[Gorf]

You can't beleive that just because most companies have been silent, that they are not

working on ways to get back control of it. I'd be suprised if they were'nt quite honestly.

Which is why music artists have been abandonding the RIAA and BPI for years.

 

Why artists like Jason Mraz, Steve Winwood and Heart (amung others) have actively fought AGAINST the lawsuits against P2P saying P2P not only DOESNT hurt their sales but gives them even more exposure.

 

mraz and winwood have similar views on the issues of p2p. why not? both need the promotion and winwood is past his days of multi platinum and #1 hits. regardless, an artist like winwood stays alive in the scene and makes up in tours and merch. he's made his millions already...

 

wilson sisters have a different view. both support p2p legal entitites that help pay the artist. there is huge difference....

 

and like my comment prior, the gaming and music industries are different.

 

Yes that is another thing. I tend to put songs together alot quicker than video games

[Artlover]

All of these people tend to be very socialist so it's not suprising to me. They tens not to beleive in ownership. I however do.

If those folks want to give away their art, let them, but don't go labeling others that feel otherwise and obviously put a higher value on their work than these

people do as 'stuck up' and 'control' happy.

If Winwood labled you a corporate puppet who is more concerned with getting whats yours then allowing someone to enjoy your work, would he be any more or less wrong then your socialist label of him? There is a little thing called "perspective".

 

Just because you have your agenda regarding the matters that concern you doesn't mean it's shared by everyone else. You can speak for yourself, you can speak for those you have personaly delt with, and thats as far as it extends. You don't speak for the entire Jag community or all coders in general. You can do whatever you want with your IP, just as they can do whatever they want with theirs. But you can not assume everyone else is after the same thing as you, nor insult them because their approach is opposite or conflicts with yours.

 

Call it stuck up or whatever you want but three socialist thinking artists are hardly enough

to convince anyone with enough common sense to understand the hard work involved and

the simple fact that out side of the Jaguar world I make a living coding.

So now they are lacking in common sense because they don't share your views of IP?

 

{sarcasim on}

Yes, I'm quite sure Winwood or Heart doesn't have any understanding of the hard work invovled in writting music, making albums, putting on shows.

{sarcasim off}

 

Again, is it neccessary to insult fellow entertainment artists because they dare have a different agenda for their work?

 

I want you to go to work and every week pass out your paycheck equally to

everyone in the Jaguar community and in turn I'll personally give you a free

copy of any one of the game we release....deal? I highly doubt it.

Odd analogy that has nothing to do with anything as it's not even remotely simmilar to the effects of piracy.

 

Anywho, what I do for work and I do for fun and my own amusement are two different things, and I don't charge people for things I do for myself for fun and my own amusement. I have, well used to, make music, do creative writing, draw, program. Every single thing I've ever done I've posted on line to the local BBS's of the day and had posted to my website when it was up. Making anything, even recovering any costs related to doing anything never has been a concern to me. It was all hobby for fun, for myself and others to enjoy. I still maintain this position regarding my own efforts. The ONLY thing I ever requested was credit be given. Use any or all my work, just make sure there is a REM statement somewhere that says Artlover. I suppose that makes me a senseless socialist too?

 

Anywho, I don't care what you do with your work. The point was/is, don't assume your take on the matter is universal. It's not, not even amung your own kind. Some IP owners "don't" consider it stealing, regardless if your willing to accept that or not, and that doesn't make them senseless socialists any more then it makes you a corporate puppet who's only interested in getting what's yours just because you do. You're both right in your opinions as it pertains to your own goals.

[phuzaxeman]

artlover says, "...Just because you (GORF) have your agenda regarding the matters that concern you doesn't mean it's shared by everyone else. You can speak for yourself, you can speak for those you have personaly delt with, and thats as far as it extends. You don't speak for the entire Jag community or all coders in general..."

 

i'm going off course......it's so funny how this sounds all too familiar to me. unfortunate for me, there's gotta be a scapegoat somewhere. :-)

Edited October 5, 2007 by phuzaxeman

[Gorf]

 

If Winwood labled you a corporate puppet who is more concerned with getting whats yours then allowing someone to enjoy your work, would he be any more or less wrong then your socialist label of him? There is a little thing called "perspective".

 

Perspective? Get some maybe.The difference is Im not telling anyone they acn't give away thier IP's. All that Im saying

is STFU when it comes to what I do with mine. This is still America wher I live at least.

 

Just because you have your agenda regarding the matters that concern you doesn't mean it's shared by everyone else.

 

I never said it was but I know it is shared by a lot more then you would like us to beleive. It sounds like you dont want me

to do it because 3 musicians(which I am one also for 30 years now) say so? I hope to release some music some day but it

will be on a solid medium becasue I like it that way. It cost me so it has to cost them. I do not like downloding song and

games..I want a package. I want to hold a cart or disc in my hand. Most jag fans i've heard from wnt the sme thing and

are willing to pay for them. After releasing the demo of surrounded, folks STILL want to buy a cart of it. a dl is great for

demos but to me a complete game is a self contained gem. not a file on some ones flash ram card.

 

You can speak for yourself, you can speak for those you have personaly delt with, and thats as far as it extends.

 

I only do speak for myself. It is you and everyone else that say Im wrong or not cool like everyone else.

Again....perspective. god bless those folks if they want to give stuff away. I do to, just not everything and

niether do they.

 

You don't speak for the entire Jag community or all coders in general. You can do whatever you want with your IP, just as they can do whatever they want with theirs.

 

I neer did say I speak for all Jagur developers but I know quite a few and they dont disagree with me.

And as far as IP's, where did I say otherwise? This is pathetic.

 

But you can not assume everyone else is after the same thing as you, nor insult them because their

approach is opposite or conflicts with yours.

 

Insults? Come now. You call me stuck up and a control freak(both untrue BTW) and Im

insulting folks? I mearly pointed out what I happen to know about them fro interviews. Im

a musician i try to get the latest from tim to time. They have a right to believe anything

they want, and I never said they did'nt but I think it is senseless.. I just happen to subscribe

to a different point of veiw. But that is NOT ok?

 

 

{sarcasim on}

Yes, I'm quite sure Winwood or Heart doesn't have any understanding of the hard work invovled in writting music, making albums, putting on shows.

{sarcasim off}

Again, is it neccessary to insult fellow entertainment artists because they dare have a different agenda for their work?

 

I know you like to assume things and it seems wrongly for the most part, but show me where I say these artist do not

understand that? Please? Im talking about you guys who think developers owe you free games and damned be the

developer if he dare charge for or protect his IP. WTF is that all about? maybe not you personally, you haev said you

dont care either way but you sure seeem to haev picked a side to me. Maybe Im overassuming?

Possible.

 

I want you to go to work and every week pass out your paycheck equally to

 

Coding is my job or did not yu read? you dont pass outyour pay check from work. Jaguar there is no pay check.

It covers cost and a tiny, tiny, tiny bit of time...like a night of drinking....cant we even celebrate with a beer?

Sheesh!...really...i'll buy you one...honest!

 

Anywho, what I do for work and I do for fun and my own amusement are two different things, and I don't charge people for things I do for myself for fun and my own amusement. I have, well used to, make music, do creative writing, draw, program.

 

I am a coder by trade and though I love my job I do it for a living. I have to ...it's how I eat and pay rent.

I also do electronic installations and I happen to love those to and yes they are customized by me and my

own circuits but I still charge for it becasue I have to to live. I am lucky to have a job I love..sorry.

I also have to pay fr the packaged game which is the ONLY awy I like releasing full products. I will

release demos as dl's but the final game will be a package. Im a purist in this sense. Not that I wont

ever buy a dl software package, becasue some instances that is the only way. My FPGA software

is mostly all dl'able. I can get some on disc but all the ips I have to grab files from Xilinx.

I'd rather them be on a disc...i think they actuallyoffer tha now too...hmmmm...anyway.....

 

Every single thing I've ever done I've posted on line to the local BBS's of the day and had posted to my website when it was up. Making anything, even recovering any costs related to doing anything never has been a concern to me. It was all hobby for fun, for myself and others to enjoy. I still maintain this position regarding my own efforts. The ONLY thing I ever requested was credit be given. Use any or all my work, just make sure there is a REM statement somewhere that says Artlover. I suppose that makes me a senseless socialist too?

 

God bless you man....really ...I completely think it is cool you are as generous with your creations as you are

but im sure honest folks would not mind paying you for what you are worth. I again give stuff away too. You

also have NO idea what our plans for jag fans are to even make these kind of assumptions about me, however.

 

I think you will see we are a lot more generous than you want to beleive. It will happen. I ask for money ONCE

again because I package my games. I do not like the DL thing. I am an old 2600 guy who loved getting the games

in the box. I ask for cost of material coverage and MABYE enough to possibly even get some celebration drinking

money when all is said and done...and yes I by you all around. Do you really think we make any money? You

slay me.

 

Anywho, I don't care what you do with your work. The point was/is, don't assume your take on the matter is universal.

 

You are the only one making assumptions. I never did this either but oh well....

 

It's not, not even amung your own kind. Some IP owners "don't" consider it stealing, regardless if your willing to

accept that or not, and that doesn't make them senseless socialists any more then it makes you a corporate

puppet who's only interested in getting what's yours just because you do. You're both right in your opinions

as it pertains to your own goals.

 

 

If IP owners dont care that is their perogative and I never once disputed this or implied otherwise. You keep reading

things that are not there. I happen to think a lot of socialism is senseless just like you think what I am trying to do is

senseless. That dos not mean I think you have no sense. no need to take things so persoanlly and I appologize if you

did.

 

However Artlover, truthfully you come across as an intellegent and thoughtful guy but I just dont agree with you.

However, I'd like to check out some of your work. What is it you do actually? Any Links?

[Gorf]

artlover says, "...Just because you (GORF) have your agenda regarding the matters that concern you doesn't mean it's shared by everyone else. You can speak for yourself, you can speak for those you have personaly delt with, and thats as far as it extends. You don't speak for the entire Jag community or all coders in general..."

 

i'm going off course......it's so funny how this sounds all too familiar to me. unfortunate for me, there's gotta be a scapegoat somewhere. :-)

 

I would still like to see wher I said anyone has to subcribe to my points of view. I'd simply love it.

[phuzaxeman]

artlover says, "...Just because you (GORF) have your agenda regarding the matters that concern you doesn't mean it's shared by everyone else. You can speak for yourself, you can speak for those you have personaly delt with, and thats as far as it extends. You don't speak for the entire Jag community or all coders in general..."

 

i'm going off course......it's so funny how this sounds all too familiar to me. unfortunate for me, there's gotta be a scapegoat somewhere. :-)

 

I would still like to see wher I said anyone has to subcribe to my points of view. I'd simply love it.

 

you've had a lot to say for each opinion listed from this thread. the problem with you gorf is that you can never let your guard down when someone else proposes a better view than you.

 

 

atariboy says, "...Nope, just being realistic since I know you'll never accomplish it. "

 

Deranged_desperado says, "...(gorf) are the root to 99% of all the animosity in this community....I think yours and scatologics attitude towards the community scares away more customers than piracy. "

 

 

artlover says, "...Just because you (GORF) have your agenda regarding the matters that concern you doesn't mean it's shared by everyone else. You can speak for yourself, you can speak for those you have personaly delt with, and thats as far as it extends. You don't speak for the entire Jag community or all coders in general..."

 

it's about time for other jag members express their opinions on this forum freely....

Edited October 5, 2007 by phuzaxeman

[+LS650]

Since I returned to Canada from Mexico three months ago, my Jaguar collection has sat in a couple of boxes. All the bickering and bitching has turned me off the Jaguar and caused me to renew interest in the Lynx. I'll probably get interested in the Jaguar once the JagCF issue is resolved - one way or another - but for now the Lynx holds my interest.

[Artlover]

I would still like to see wher I said anyone has to subcribe to my points of view. I'd simply love it.

You can't beleive that just because most companies have been silent, that they are not working on ways to get back control of it. I'd be suprised if they were'nt quite honestly.

You are implying that most companies are interested in this concept of protecting IP. You have made this suggestion more then once. No, you have not specificly said others ARE or that they have to subscribe to your thinking, but you do continualy reference protecting the IP's of others work in relation to your proposed idea. While it maybe true, it's still an assumption on your part when regarding anyone you have not personaly discussed the matter with.

 

All that Im saying is STFU when it comes to what I do with mine. This is still America wher I live at least.

 

It sounds like you dont want me to do it because 3 musicians(which I am one also for 30 years now) say so?

 

I just happen to subscribe to a different point of veiw. But that is NOT ok?

 

I happen to think a lot of socialism is senseless just like you think what I am trying to do is

senseless.

I think you're assuming and reading things that aren't there on these points as no where have I said or implied that you are wrong for wanting to protect your IP. I have repeatedly said you can do whatever you want. Every point I made goes to the paragraph above.

 

Insults? Come now. You call me stuck up and a control freak(both untrue BTW) and Im

insulting folks?

Saying "being stuck up on controlling" is NOT the same thing as calling you stuck up or a control freak. "Stuck up on" in this sense is a figure of speech equal to "hung up on" or "excessively focused on" or "concerned with". Not intended as an insult to you personaly. Sorry if you took it as such.

 

I know you like to assume things and it seems wrongly for the most part, but show me where I say these artist do not

understand that? Please?

but three socialist thinking artists are hardly enough to convince anyone with enough common sense to understand the hard work involved

There is a clear implication of that right there. Is there any way to alter that basic statement as written to convey the same point you were attempting to make while at the same time not making the suggested implication?

 

Lets try: "but three socialist thinking artists who understand the hard work invovled are hardly enough to convience anyone with enough common sense to understand the hard work invovled." Aside from being a contradiction, it doesn't make any sense.

 

I'm sorry, but implications are part of language. Intentional or not. You can't hide behind the guise of "I didn't litterly say word for word such and such" because there is always more to it then that. Trust me, as I used to try to be as litteral as possible, and it never failed that someone would interpret what I wrote differently then how I intended. What one writes or says can make perfect sense to them, but not have the same meaning to anyone else. There is no fault invovled in, but the simple biological fact that everyone's brain is different with a different thought process as defined by how their synapses developed during their lifetime. I often spend hours even on simple messages. Reading and re-reading my words over and over. Going off to do something else for a bit getting myself into a different mindset, then comming back and re-reading again, realising what I wrote at first in no way actually reflected my intent and re-write some if not all in an attempt to define my point better. Ultimatly it will always be for naught because everyone else still inherently has their own unique thought proccess. Until the day when cybernetic wirelessly linked brain implants are implanted in everyone, there will never be a way for two people to ever beable to look at something in the exact same way.

 

However Artlover, truthfully you come across as an intellegent and thoughtful guy but I just dont agree with you.

You don't aggree with what? By and large, I aggree with you more then I think you realize.

 

However, I'd like to check out some of your work. What is it you do actually? Any Links?

Well, you did notice I said when my website used to be up. As currently, no. The person I was getting free server space from ended up getting banned from his provider because on of the other people he was giving server space to apparently broke some terms of use policy. I haven't had a steady job since moving back to Miami last year, and don't have the funds to waste on self serving flights of fancy like my own website. Once I can get a steady full time job, getting a new website for my naturalyartificial.com domain will be one of the things I do.

 

Anywho, mostly, it was basic/assembly programming on the C-128. Nice version of Pong (even uses paddle controllers) and a Slot Machine simulator were probably my better works. This was going back to....'86. Tho actually I revised my Slot Machine game back in 2001 after some feedback I got in the efnet #c-64 channel. Lots of dumb little things, like lotto pickers, 1581 disk drive t/s editor for repairing corrupted directories (a common problem on that drive), some inventory sheet application I wrote for Keebler Cookies when my dad was working for them, stuff like that. Did a lot of digitized music, stereo digi music and sound sample demos. Pure assembly using homemade ADC0820 based hardware. Few odd sprite/raster bar/bit map/scroll text demos. Did some midi type SID work, nothing I'm proud of or impressed by myself. I have a good ear for music, but less talent in transfering the 'music in my head' to something reproduceable. I've done a bit of free hand drawing on a color Mac with pressure sensitive touch tablet. Also just a lot of free hand drawing with paper and pencil. Been half working on "A glimpse of computers and BBSing through the eyes of Artlover" book. Chapter 3 "These things aren't much fun without a stair case" is mostly done (Yes, it's a Slinky reference). It's about the game Neuromancer and the hoopla it created in the message bases of the local BBSes (Mostly Crash & Burn and Starlight). Good times, good times... "The Atari Age Days" will problably be the next chapter I start. {Quick thinking.....} Probably be chapter 12 or 13.

 

My problem at the moment is that everything is in storage. Honestly, aside from my two pirmary PC's, a couple of consoles and some clothes, everything I own is still sitting in uhaul boxes and has been since 2002 when I first moved to OKC, OK. All in all, the last five years of my life have really kind of sucked. I would really love nothing more then a steady source of self sustaining income and access to all my possession. Hopefully one day.

[Shannon]

This topic coming from someone who was forced to take his (not original) product off the market because the original ip holders did not approve? I get the impression the topic starter expects to be able to live off of his Jaguar earnings. Why ask our opinions if we, as non-coders, didn't spend "hours" thus rednering our opinion worthless?

 

Seriously. Am I missing something?

Edited October 5, 2007 by Shannon

[Gorf]

This topic coming from someone who was forced to take his (not original) product off the market because the original ip holders did not approve?

 

 

Your point? and how it releates to this?

 

 

I get the impression the topic starter expects to be able to live off of his Jaguar earnings.

 

Please show me where you derived this nonsense from other than you own wild imagination.

 

Why ask our opinions if we, as non-coders, didn't spend "hours" thus rednering our opinion worthless?

 

Essentially. Your opinion means little to ME, the guy who spends countless hours

working on these product. And exactly why it's not a suprise you don't get it.

 

 

Seriously. Am I missing something?

 

From the looks of this post....everything. You clearly did not read or you

are horrible at comprehending things.