How would folks feel.

[Gorf]

The trouble with this idea is that current Jaguar emulators, as far as I know, are limited in their ability to accurately emulate the original games. You'll be asking people to pay for a product of questionable quality, which may or may not be acceptable to the people involved in making it.

 

 

Again guys this is not ONLY for the Jaguar or Atari even. Im talking everything classic.

This way if Atari was to go for something like this, Jaguar would just be one of many

of Atari classic platforms they could post/ sell or what have you.

[phuzaxeman]

i rest my case. people state an opinion (which you accuse who are trolls) about something and you just shoot people down personally. great job. don't believe me? read the thread of what people have been saying.

 

You rest your case? You never had a case and I ask again to show me where I put down ANYONE's opinion

You are following me around looking for an excuse to be a jerk. Is that your case? That you cant help but

piss on others experiences.

 

 

hypocrite? look in the mirror gorf. your claim that you've done so much for the jag community yet your personal attacks and sarcasm toward others that have different ideas than yours is hypocrisy at its best. pathetic.

 

Show me where I personally attacked anyone for an idea that did not attack me first...Just ONE example please.

Oh and go look up the definition of 'hypocrite', hypocrite.

 

gorf says, "i bet i've done more than you ever will for the Jaguar community."

 

Yes I have.....more than YOU will ever do.

 

off course, how could i

 

Because I know Im right here....Please show me one thing you have done other

than pick uneccessary fights with me? I've done more in ONE day for the Jag

than a troll like you will ever do in his life time.

 

or anyone

 

This is your own idea and not the truth beacsue you cant be told reality, especially when it does

not match your fantasy. In that other thread everyone else saw that you were the being the

trouble maker.

 

There are those in this community who DO do plenty and eevn more than me so

stop putting words in my mouth so you stop looking like a fool because it wont

help. You still look like a fool. I do more for this commmunity than you ever COULD

never mind would.

 

do more than you.

 

No just mcuh more than anything YOU, (dont drag others into this like a liar)

will ever do for this community.

 

sorry man, i'm just a normal fan of the jag and enjoy some of the games.

I'll never have your jag knowledge and programming skills.

 

 

Yet you come here and try to tell me, a guy with over 12 years of coding experience

on the Jaguar alone.

 

 

and btw, my "skill level in recording?" what does that have to do with this thread?

 

It has EVERYTHING to do with the way you piss on my experience as a Jaguar coder.

You since day one have acted like you have a million years of coding knowledge over

me and no matter what links of evidence I showed you, im was treated by you like a

coding novice. So I bring up the possibiliyt of some one doing the same thing to you

via your recording experience. Every here of similar yet unrelated situations?

I know your not too bright or you would see the obvious relation here.

 

 

once again you go off tangent.

 

It is you who went off on a tangent to attack me unfounded becaseu you obviously

are the one who thinks he is smarter than everyone else. Especially someone with

more Jaguar experience than you.

 

stick to the thread.

 

Practice what you preach, hypocrite.

 

you wanna debate recording? send me a pm and save everyone the headache. i'd gladly listen to your

recordings or whatever it is you want to say about the recording/music industry.

 

I dont want to debate anything with you. I do wnat you to stop causing un provoked trouble

with me in every thread you find a lame opportunity to do so. You accusations against me

are nothing but BS and lies. If they are not, evidence please.

 

..this is not about the recording industry but about a novice such as youeself telling an experienced

like my self he dont know what he is talking about. Pick WHATEVER industry. It's stil the height

of arrogance to do it and you have done it here manys time with me concerning my experience

with the Jaguar. Im trying to find out how you'd feel if someone did that to you with your

recording skills and experiences. My guess is you would not be to friendly about it at all.

 

You can have any opinion you want about the Jaguar but if you are not factual, I will correct you.

I started this thread to find out people's feeling about this subject so it isonly natural I will answer

a good deal of the posts. Why you complain abotu this is retarded. Usually the topic starter is the

most vocal, at least in my experiences. Yet...this is somehow an offense to you.

 

talk about someone who give page long responses and off topic even.

 

look how long you repost? is this really necessary? cmon. most of it personal attacks with your arrogance. you'd get a lot more done and actually complete another game or the spend more time with the rights for gorf if you didn't waste your time on these forums defending your self with these long a$$ reposts against me and the rest of many people on here. where did i read that there was a letter that said something along the lines that wished gorf would leave the jag community? i guess i'm not the only one here that sees your ways.

 

correct me? you aint never going to get midway or atari to support you (like i and many have told you)in regards to jaguar downloads. it doesnt take a coder like your pompous demeanor to figure out that there isn't a big enough market to even make a dent in those companies.

 

quit bringing up the recording industry in this thread and going off tangent. you bringing that topic up is proof you can't stay on topic. pathetic....

Edited October 6, 2007 by phuzaxeman

[phuzaxeman]

yes. lets get back on topic.

Don't shoot your mouth off and steeer it off topic in the first place.

The balls of some people, I tell ya.

yeah i have balls....not everyone agreees with you and believes you're the bible on the jag. maybe you should grow some. :-)

[Gorf]

yes. lets get back on topic.

Don't shoot your mouth off and steeer it off topic in the first place.

The balls of some people, I tell ya.

yeah i have balls....not everyone agreees with you and believes you're the bible on the jag. maybe you should grow some. :-)

 

I have enough to deal with you certainly.

[A Sprite]

Next question would be - how would records of ownership be kept? Who keeps track of the database?

 

This question is personal to me, because I do emulate games that have been stolen, or stopped working - I can't afford to replace them.

 

Could there also be a possibility of creating more of a museum setting? The idea being you can play a game one time for free, with no saves, and then are kept from replaying it for a certain time unless you purchase it. That way, historians and academics have access to whatever is needed, but those who might wish to take the game with them have a chance to become hooked first.

 

Especially if a certain amount of the sales go to the people involved in the creative decisions behind the game, and the presentation gives people a chance to get a feel for the human element behind it all.

 

It's easier to support an artist than it is a company.

[A Sprite]

Was I way off in asking?

 

I seriously think Gorf had a good idea, and I wanted to see the thread continue...

[Gorf]

Next question would be - how would records of ownership be kept? Who keeps track of the database?

 

This question is personal to me, because I do emulate games that have been stolen, or stopped working - I can't afford to replace them.

 

Could there also be a possibility of creating more of a museum setting? The idea being you can play a game one time for free, with no saves, and then are kept from replaying it for a certain time unless you purchase it. That way, historians and academics have access to whatever is needed, but those who might wish to take the game with them have a chance to become hooked first.

 

Especially if a certain amount of the sales go to the people involved in the creative decisions behind the game, and the presentation gives people a chance to get a feel for the human element behind it all.

 

It's easier to support an artist than it is a company.

 

 

 

Sounds like some good ideas. I doubt the artists will get anything from it unless they

have some ownership of the game if the corps haev anything to say about it. A museum

based 'one try or buy' could certainly work well. Maybe even these corps could rely on

fan sites to distribute them. Lots of things can be done but lots of things need consideration.

 

Im thinking this will be inevitible sooner or later anyway. I do think these companies will

offer these titles at incredibly fair prices someday and i dont believe it will be that far off.

They have to know the interset in these games exsist and are at an abnormal high but

dont know what to do with them. I think they are just trying to figure this out while the

interest is high right now.

[Pete5125]

Again I think the service already excist through GameStop, and Nintendo Wii. If you have a Wii they just reasently added NEO GEO games arcade perfect I assume 900 points ($9) steap but still cheaper than the ($90-$150) in the day. I would say Nintendo realy came up w/ a way for this to work, people are paying money for games they could easily download of the net w/ little trouble. The Nintendo way is easier and the honest way. I would say hitting them up to cary Jag games (few realy used the # keypad for much) even if you got Atari Age or another online retailer to make an adaptor to use the Jag pad on the Wii would be sweat.

 

Then if somone wanted to develope for the jag all they would have to do is get Nintendo to put it up on their site....no more expensive cartridges/ or Cd's for a drive most Jag people don't have. It would be secure because as of this moment their is not a widely known way to steal these roms.

 

Under this synopsis maybe your Gorf game could see the light of day.

[Gorf]

Again I think the service already excist through GameStop, and Nintendo Wii. If you have a Wii they just reasently added NEO GEO games arcade perfect I assume 900 points ($9) steap but still cheaper than the ($90-$150) in the day. I would say Nintendo realy came up w/ a way for this to work, people are paying money for games they could easily download of the net w/ little trouble. The Nintendo way is easier and the honest way. I would say hitting them up to cary Jag games (few realy used the # keypad for much) even if you got Atari Age or another online retailer to make an adaptor to use the Jag pad on the Wii would be sweat.

 

Then if somone wanted to develope for the jag all they would have to do is get Nintendo to put it up on their site....no more expensive cartridges/ or Cd's for a drive most Jag people don't have. It would be secure because as of this moment their is not a widely known way to steal these roms.

 

Under this synopsis maybe your Gorf game could see the light of day.

 

 

Well , even if it could not be Gorf, it might be good for my other titles.

 

Im certainly open to any reasonable suggestion and you may have something here.

I'll have to look further into the Nintendo site on that. Any links that might be useful

in that regard?

 

Thanks

 

Steve

[BuddyBuddies]

GORF RULES!!

[Math You]

With all this crap about downloads and copying going around, I was thinking

of the excuses given for why people do it. I hear a lot that folks say they'd

glady buy the game if it were for sale still but since it is not, they DL it.

Perhaps we should show them this anti piracy video

 

The IT Crowd anti piracy video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB8VETHSwRA

[Gorf]

With all this crap about downloads and copying going around, I was thinking

of the excuses given for why people do it. I hear a lot that folks say they'd

glady buy the game if it were for sale still but since it is not, they DL it.

Perhaps we should show them this anti piracy video

 

The IT Crowd anti piracy video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB8VETHSwRA

 

 

Love when they move the couch back.

[Artlover]

With all this crap about downloads and copying going around, I was thinking

of the excuses given for why people do it. I hear a lot that folks say they'd

glady buy the game if it were for sale still but since it is not, they DL it.

Perhaps we should show them this anti piracy video

 

The IT Crowd anti piracy video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB8VETHSwRA

Wow, a bunch of totaly BS comparisons that don't even remotely reflect the reality of what kind of "theft" piracy is.

 

I'm supposed to give a crap about this why?

[Math You]

It wasn't directed at anyone in particular. I just thought the video clip was funny

[Trip_Cannon]

With all this crap about downloads and copying going around, I was thinking

of the excuses given for why people do it. I hear a lot that folks say they'd

glady buy the game if it were for sale still but since it is not, they DL it.

Perhaps we should show them this anti piracy video

 

The IT Crowd anti piracy video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB8VETHSwRA

Wow, a bunch of totaly BS comparisons that don't even remotely reflect the reality of what kind of "theft" piracy is.

 

I'm supposed to give a crap about this why?

 

This coming from the person who suggested to use torrents and P2P software to download the SW episode of Family Guy?! Then went on to say that usenet was the way because torrents track you!?!

[Artlover]

It wasn't directed at anyone in particular. I just thought the video clip was funny

I will admit, the couch scene was funny.

[Artlover]

This coming from the person who suggested to use torrents and P2P software to download the SW episode of Family Guy?! Then went on to say that usenet was the way because torrents track you!?!

And that has nothing to do with my point regarding it.

 

Comparing piracy to the same thing as purse snatching or car theft is ignorant stupidty that in no way reflects the truth. Maybe if the commercial showed someone with a magicial "clone gun", that one can point at something, and make their own copy of it while leaving the original in the hands of the owner to do with as they pleased, there would be some accuracy there.

 

Except the truth doesn't make for a strong anti-piracy argument. Never did, which is why all anti-piracy advocates have to used fudged data based on equating every case of piracy as being a lost sale representing a legimiate copy that never existed being stolen against projected sales numbers that wern't met while ignoring all other reasons that may be to blame.

 

The reality is, there will always be people who will buy the product, no matter how much piracy exists. Sales WILL be made by those interested in it. This is obvious by the fact that everything for everything in all entertainment fields has been pirated. Movie companies still sell tickets, dvds, and video tape. Music companies still sell cassettes and cd's, video game makers are still stilling games and stuff. Even on the "I'm uniquely different" jag, where a large protion of everything released for the thing has been pirated, and there are eeprom carts avaialble for it. There is still a legimate market. Always will be, for everything. More people then not are inherently honestly and are interested in the extras that come with legimate ownership.

 

Then you got those people who buy the games, but get f--ked in one way or another. People ARE entitled to backups, which are impossible to make. People are entitled to PLAY the games they buy, which is also sometimes impossible (look at Steam and their cluster f--k of bullshit that has screwed over many a customer). No, I mean, really, look at Steam. Single player solo game, but still requires an active internet connection and their servers to be up, so you can play that single player solo game by yourself. No interenet, no game. Servers not up, no game. In the future when the servers are gone, no game. Who does that effect, legimate owners only. Pirated copies don't suffer from that stupidty. It's pretty god damned sad when one spends $50 on a game then has to get a pirated copy just to beable to play the f'in thing. These kinds of situations don't even deserve to be considered at all, yet still are and considered one of those mythical lost sales.

 

Then you have the people that will never buy the game. Even if it wasn't pirated. Mathamaticaly speaking, someone walking along in the store, not buying your product from the shelf because they don't want it, going home and downloading a copy amounts to the same result. Person didn't want a product, didn't buy it and it's still sitting on the shelf for someone else who does. There is no loss of product, there is no loss of potential revenue, there is no loss of customer. No sale is no sale. It's strictly a principle issue. Not that there is anything wrong with principle, but I do have a problem with people who muck with the numbers in a false effort to make that same situation equal to shoplifting an original out of a store or something when the logical dynamics are completely different.

 

The funniest examples of this was the music industry many years back, bitching about how the sale of 'singles' went down in college towns where Napster was being used extensively. They didn't seem to care about the fact that the sale of 'full albums' went UP by pretty much the same amount in those same markets. Their own data PROVED the 'try-before-you-buy philosophy', and showed their netting a greater amount of income. Didn't matter, 'control' is more important then making money.

 

Now, that's not to say there aren't people in the middle. People who "would" buy the product if they couldn't pirate it. These people are making an ever increasing percentage of the problem. I think the last numbers were something like 37% of people world wide pirate software (which is actualy DOWN considerable from decades ago). There is no offical breakdown on who is who. IE: Who is doing it just to do it, who is doing it because they are cheap, etc.. But I wouldn't be suprized with or argue if someone said 80% of that 37% are just cheap theving bastards.

 

Still, it represents a minotry in the end. More people then not BUY their products legaly.

 

I'd have more respect for the anti-piracy side of things if they didn't consistantly use dilusional methods of justifing their points, and often contradict their own end goals in doing so.

[Gorf]

Im staying out of this one....yikes....(Steve, tip toes away quietly)......

 

[Trip_Cannon]

This coming from the person who suggested to use torrents and P2P software to download the SW episode of Family Guy?! Then went on to say that usenet was the way because torrents track you!?!

And that has nothing to do with my point regarding it.

 

Comparing piracy to the same thing as purse snatching or car theft is ignorant stupidty that in no way reflects the truth. Maybe if the commercial showed someone with a magicial "clone gun", that one can point at something, and make their own copy of it while leaving the original in the hands of the owner to do with as they pleased, there would be some accuracy there.

 

Yeah, and that's why the spoof ad was funny...

[BuddyBuddies]

Im staying out of this one....yikes....(Steve, tip toes away quietly)......

 

LOL.........

[cdoty]

What if I were to have talks with a few major game companies and see if I can

convince them to post binaries on their web sites so folks could purchase them

at reasonable prices? For example , If I were some how able to convince

Infogrammes to release older jag games on the Atari web site for DL for a

reasonable fee? OR maybe even convince Midway to do the same for some

roms of old games for use on emulators? Both these companies need all the

money they can get as it is and this may very well be a way to satisfy both

crowds....now, I already know the pitfalls of such an experiment but if there

is some way to make this safe, I bet they would go for it. I think these companies

would do anything right now to gain a little revenue.

 

I think they would be more open to you licensing the roms, and doing it on your own or something similar.

 

Probably the best idea would be to license then, and whore them out as a PC release with an emulator.

 

You could probably, at that point, negotiate for a download license also.

 

The only problem I can see is that they may want a sales guarantee.

 

 

Gametap has done a decent job with what they've done, and they do carry some Atari (non Jaguar) games. Granted, you don't own them.

Edited October 12, 2007 by cdoty

[JagChris]

your flat is way too small for this telly!