(re)build a *NEW* Atari Computer?

[Retro Rogue]

As for FPGA, just look at the C=1 project.

 

 

Which has shortcomings as well though with regards to SID accuracy, just as with the DTV implementation.

 

 

On that note, if the 8 bit Atari core does get released, I'd love to see an implementation of AMY with it.

[mos6507]

 

You are telling me that thing is an Atari 8-bit on a chip? You've got to be joking.

Edited October 17, 2007 by mos6507

[jaybird3rd]

I'd love to see a replacement motherboard for the Atari 800 series that integrates all of the common upgrades (extra memory, floppy and IDE/CF controllers, enhanced video output, PS/2 keyboard and mouse connectors, MicroUSB, SIO2PC and APE interfaces, etc) onto a single MicroATX board. This would make it possible to install a set of old Atari chips and mount the board in a regular PC case, along with the power supply and drive(s). The design of the board might even be simple enough for it to be sold as a kit: an empty board with a bag of components that buyers can assemble themselves.

 

I know I'd buy several, both to build systems for everyday use and to revive "dead" Atari computers whose chips are still salvageable.

[Retro Rogue]

In reguard to the rights, being that Atari was absorbed buy JTS in 1996 and later sold to Hasbro in 1998, maby we need to contact Hasbro too.

 

Hasbro has nothing to do with it any more. See my previous post.

 

They did release all rights to the public domain for the Jaguar in 1999.

 

They also released all the schematics to ANTIC, GTIA, and POKEY in to the public domain.

[nathanallan]

 

You are telling me that thing is an Atari 8-bit on a chip? You've got to be joking.

Well, that wasn't it, but an example of the concept that was mentioned earlier in the thread. No, that thing is a piece of crap. But it's the idea behind it that's sound.

 

Nathan

[rdhays82604]

In reguard to the rights, being that Atari was absorbed buy JTS in 1996 and later sold to Hasbro in 1998, maby we need to contact Hasbro too.

 

Hasbro has nothing to do with it any more. See my previous post.

 

They did release all rights to the public domain for the Jaguar in 1999.

 

They also released all the schematics to ANTIC, GTIA, and POKEY in to the public domain.

 

 

 

I have been looking all over the 'net for those. Do you know where they can be found?

I have read that they were on atarimuseum but there are no active links under the 8-bit computer on the archives page. Only links to the game consoles.

[peteym5]

As for FPGA, just look at the C=1 project.

 

 

Which has shortcomings as well though with regards to SID accuracy, just as with the DTV implementation.

 

 

On that note, if the 8 bit Atari core does get released, I'd love to see an implementation of AMY with it.

 

 

In reguard to the rights, being that Atari was absorbed buy JTS in 1996 and later sold to Hasbro in 1998, maby we need to contact Hasbro too.

 

Hasbro has nothing to do with it any more. See my previous post.

 

They did release all rights to the public domain for the Jaguar in 1999.

 

They also released all the schematics to ANTIC, GTIA, and POKEY in to the public domain.

 

The ideal of upgrading the ANTIC, GTIA, POKEY has been mentioned several times before. I started a thread about obtaining the schematics for these chips under '65816 and faster ICs' looking into the ideal of making a new chip(s) capable of being on a faster buss (with enhancments). Either have it be on a FPGA or something similar.

 

Infogames currently owns the Atari Rights. Atari Computer division ended before Jack Tremial sold the company. Honestly I do not think there will be issues on duplicating the original chipset. If enhancements or changes are made, also would help our case. Keep it backward compatible. I like the ideal of implementing AMY or quad pokey with enhancements like waveform.

 

The big issue here, is someone really going to build a new atari 8-bit compatible computer in this era. Would it be just the Atari technology invented in the late 1970s? Would you like to see it with some enhancments or many enhancments? I think some would be neccessary like Hard Drive support, USB, Output to S-Video, RBG, HDTV, or even a PC monitor.

[Hornpipe2]

I have been looking all over the 'net for those. Do you know where they can be found?

http://retromicro.com/downloads.html

 

I've started a thread recently with some links to other FPGA reimplementations of classic hardware, maybe you would all be interested: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=115062

[tcropper]

First, folks, lets try and minimize all the enhancements that we want. All that stuff is re-engineering costs that will build into the product. Just re-making the Atari A8's in a decent quantity will be costly enough.

 

Secondly, I selected Nolan Bushnell because he:

a.) Knows everyone involved in the original Atari engineering projects.

b.) Still has an active interest in Atari computers, i.e. he follows what is going on.

c.) Has the people, capitol, contacts to do something like this.

d.) He is not very old, perhaps has the 'energy' left for a project like this.

 

I have also emailed the VP of Atari, Inc. regarding the patent and copyrights to any of the old A-8 stuff. I will see what kind of response we get.

[Retro Rogue]

First, folks, lets try and minimize all the enhancements that we want. All that stuff is re-engineering costs that will build into the product. Just re-making the Atari A8's in a decent quantity will be costly enough.

 

What re-engineering costs? There's nothing engineered in the first place yet. Were you mistakenly thinking that because there's schematics for the original chips every things been done already? If you have to redo the chips in a modern format, you're redoing everything. Adding additional circuitry during that process is not some kind of huge cost bearing feat - especially when you're talking about extra graphics modes, or the additions of other chips which were also previously laid out (such as Amy). Secondly, what actual experience do you have in any of this? Its not sounding

like a lot with some of these statements you've been making. And you're certainly not familiar with much of the Atari history or properties either.

If you're just a fan that found AA and is interested in seeing this as much as the regulars here (who've discussed this many times in the past), that's great. But really, addressing this like you are and the way you're coming off (some new guy whose fumbling around at looking authoritative and throwing out "lets contact" left and right) isn't helping.

 

a.) Knows everyone involved in the original Atari engineering projects.

 

The project lead is dead, and the rest most of us (including Curt, myself, Glenn, etc.) know or are easy to contact. But why would we need to even talk to them? All the design material is already out there, Curt already has all the original engineering docs, chip layouts, etc., and its not like the hardware is not already well well explored by the users and fans that its some great mystery.

 

b.) Still has an active interest in Atari computers, i.e. he follows what is going on.

 

He had nothing to do with atari computers.

 

 

c.) Has the people, capitol, contacts to do something like this.

 

No, he does not. He's already tapped with the latest version of his uWink.

 

d.) He is not very old, perhaps has the 'energy' left for a project like this.

 

Once again, he's already tapped with uWink. And once again, he's never had anything to do with any of the Atari computers.

 

I have also emailed the VP of Atari, Inc. regarding the patent and copyrights to any of the old A-8 stuff. I will see what kind of response we get.

 

And once again, Atari Inc. has nothing to do with this. The patents/copyrights/trademarks are owned by Atari Interactive, a separate corporation. Likewise again, the hardware (antic, gtia, pokey) was put in the public domain by Hasbro when they owned all properties.

Edited October 17, 2007 by wgungfu

[Retro Rogue]

Infogames currently owns the Atari Rights.

 

It goes Infogrames->Atari Interactive. You have to contact Atari Interactive regarding Atari properties, not Infogrames.

 

Atari Computer division ended before Jack Tremial sold the company.

 

Reverse merged.

 

Honestly I do not think there will be issues on duplicating the original chipset.

 

Again, they were released to the public domain by Hasbro.

[Goochman]

No offense, but Nolan Bushnell has had a very spotty business record after leaving Atari - really one of the last guys you want to invest money with these days.......

[Retro Rogue]

Regarding a new Atari computer project, I would really like to see something like this: http://www.symbos.de/trex.htm

It is an FPGA-based Amstrad CPC emulator that can run in "turbo" mode (that is 24 MHz), with various connectivity options, including IDE, USB, TV-out, VGA etc.

 

 

For a hobby project, sure. For something mass produced, no. FPGA's aren't cost effective for consumer based products yet, unless you're talking about something that needs much less gates then what we're discussing here. When they approach ASIC's price points, then its certainly considerable. And this has already been discussed to death in the FB3 threads.

Edited October 17, 2007 by wgungfu

[Artlover]

Secondly, what actual experience do you have in any of this? Its not sounding like a lot with some of these statements you've been making. And you're certainly not familiar with much of the Atari history or properties either. If you're just a fan that found AA and is interested in seeing this as much as the regulars here (who've discussed this many times in the past), that's great. But really, addressing this like you are and the way you're coming off (some new guy whose fumbling around at looking authoritative and throwing out "lets contact" left and right) isn't helping.

RegalSin?

[zagnalopius]

Why not something like the One Chip MSX?

 

http://www.msx.org/One-Chip-MSX-MKII.newspost3805.html

 

[mos6507]

First, folks, lets try and minimize all the enhancements that we want. All that stuff is re-engineering costs that will build into the product. Just re-making the Atari A8's in a decent quantity will be costly enough.

 

Secondly, I selected Nolan Bushnell because he:

a.) Knows everyone involved in the original Atari engineering projects.

b.) Still has an active interest in Atari computers, i.e. he follows what is going on.

c.) Has the people, capitol, contacts to do something like this.

d.) He is not very old, perhaps has the 'energy' left for a project like this.

 

I have also emailed the VP of Atari, Inc. regarding the patent and copyrights to any of the old A-8 stuff. I will see what kind of response we get.

 

 

Contacting Nolan is silly. He has nothing to do with Atari anymore. The patents have expired years ago. There is nothing preventing someone from doing this other than the copyright on the OS ROM.

[mos6507]

Once again, he's already tapped with uWink. And once again, he's never had anything to do with any of the Atari computers.

 

He did way back when with Axlon. Axlon made memory upgrades for the Atari 400/800. Not that any of that matters in 2007.

[+remowilliams]

Secondly, what actual experience do you have in any of this? Its not sounding like a lot with some of these statements you've been making. And you're certainly not familiar with much of the Atari history or properties either. If you're just a fan that found AA and is interested in seeing this as much as the regulars here (who've discussed this many times in the past), that's great. But really, addressing this like you are and the way you're coming off (some new guy whose fumbling around at looking authoritative and throwing out "lets contact" left and right) isn't helping.

RegalSin?

Sure looks like it. It's bad when someone doesn't have the knowledge to even have an appreciation of just how far off base they are.

[Retro Rogue]

Once again, he's already tapped with uWink. And once again, he's never had anything to do with any of the Atari computers.

 

He did way back when with Axlon. Axlon made memory upgrades for the Atari 400/800. Not that any of that matters in 2007.

 

 

Yes, I was referring to the creation/design/etc. of Atari computers, i.e. anything to do with the Atari computer on the Atari end.

[mos6507]

And once again, Atari Inc. has nothing to do with this. The patents/copyrights/trademarks are owned by Atari Interactive, a separate corporation. Likewise again, the hardware (antic, gtia, pokey) was put in the public domain by Hasbro when they owned all properties.

 

They didn't really "put the hardware into the public domain". The patents expired on the 2600 and the 5200/8-bit which is all that would be required before trying to sell a clone (as is the case with the NES as well as we all know).

 

What they did was officially bless open development on all Atari platforms. This had no meaning for the 2600/5200/8-bit, but was important for the 7800, Lynx, and Jaguar in order to publish the digital signing/encryption tools which had (luckily) been rediscovered. Remember that Battlesphere had to use a brute-force crack.

[mos6507]

Yes, I was referring to the creation/design/etc. of Atari computers, i.e. anything to do with the Atari computer on the Atari end.

 

I think it would be unfair to say that Nolan had no input at all into the A8. Maybe not according to your narrow criteria (and certainly not enough to justify contacting him over, let's say Joe Decuir) but I know how dismissive you are of Nolan in general.

[tcropper]

wgungfu - Since it sounds like you are, or know the original designers, so whats stopping you guys from taking some of the already produced prototypes and contacting the original Manufacturers of the pieces and doing this thing? We already have the fan base here that would seriously consider purchasing such an item.

 

No, I don't have serious experience in doing this exact thing, but I do have a manufacturing background, and I have founded two companies, been part of several startups, etc. so I have a good understaing of the business side of things, just not detailed knowledge of the Atari chips themselves.

 

Do you or Curt have knowledge of who made the original Atari cases, who made the chips, who made the screws for the cases? It was *NOT* all Atari-made, was it?

[Retro Rogue]

And once again, Atari Inc. has nothing to do with this. The patents/copyrights/trademarks are owned by Atari Interactive, a separate corporation. Likewise again, the hardware (antic, gtia, pokey) was put in the public domain by Hasbro when they owned all properties.

 

They didn't really "put the hardware into the public domain". The patents expired on the 2600 and the 5200/8-bit which is all that would be required before trying to sell a clone (as is the case with the NES as well as we all know).

 

 

Actually no, when Curt got permission from Hasbro to release the schematics/etc. they were also released in the public domain. We rehashed this several times over with Atari legal during the initial FB3 design process.

[mos6507]

wgungfu - Since it sounds like you are, or know the original designers, so whats stopping you guys from taking some of the already produced prototypes and contacting the original Manufacturers of the pieces and doing this thing? We already have the fan base here that would seriously consider purchasing such an item.

 

No, I don't have serious experience in doing this exact thing, but I do have a manufacturing background, and I have founded two companies, been part of several startups, etc. so I have a good understaing of the business side of things, just not detailed knowledge of the Atari chips themselves.

 

Do you or Curt have knowledge of who made the original Atari cases, who made the chips, who made the screws for the cases? It was *NOT* all Atari-made, was it?

 

 

You don't have any appreciation of the timescales here. Doing this would be equivalent of that guy who is trying to manufacture Deloreans again. There is no way to do it without largely starting from scratch. Modern fabrication techniques have changed radically since the 80s. There really is no reason to build computers the way they used to be built anymore. You reduce everything down to one system-on-chip like the C=64 stick and use as many off-the-shelf commodity parts as possible.

[Retro Rogue]

I think it would be unfair to say that Nolan had no input at all into the A8.

 

If he did, it was during its origination in '77 and minor at best. If you want to talk contributions from management, Ray Kassar actually had major input on the design with regards to direction of the computers and what their market presence goal would be upon release. In fact it was his meeting discussing the direction in winter '78 that caused a lot of the people to leave because of some of the comments he made while laying out the design and market direction.

 

Maybe not according to your narrow criteria (and certainly not enough to justify contacting him over, let's say Joe Decuir)

 

Narrow criteria? Either somebody contributes to it or he doesn't. And either those contributions have something to do with the actual released product or they don't.

 

but I know how dismissive you are of Nolan in general.

 

Not in the least. Its more like "We all know how Nolan likes to portray his importance and involvement". I'm more inclined to put things in proper perspective and cut through the PR through research rather than take face value. Its like going back to Nolan's constant PR that he "designed" PONG. He certainly had a contribution to PONG and was integral in creating the project. But the idea was taken from Ralph (so he can't claim that), and the actual design was done by Al (which means he can't claim that either).

 

Don't forget, I work with a double edged sword. Most PR and "history" out there also states that he wanted nothing to do with computers (in regards to turning down the Apple), and that's also not true since the PCS's were indeed started under his watch.

Edited October 17, 2007 by wgungfu