HD-DVD add on now $50 at BestBuy

[cimerians]

Dont bother getting a PS3 or any HD player without a nice 1080P LCD. Its just not worth it. (I also recommend the PS3 as an HD player cause you can play games on it and Sony will download some neat upgrades and features to the player like DVD upscaling etc.)

 

I had a 480p flatscreen and then got a 720p LCD and it crapped out within a year. I got my money back and used it to 'upgrade' and snag a 1080P Bravia.

 

Now with that thing there are big differences and its totally worth it.

 

So, unless your willing to spend big bucks on a nice TV. Save your money and wait till the TV's get cheaper (the 1080p's, dont settle for less) and then pick up a player, and yes like I said I recommend a PS3. (Unless the Microsoft Xbox 360 blu-ray player is true and not just a rumor).

[JamesD]

Just an FYI...

from the Toshiba press conference it appears as though about half of the HD-DVD sales were the 360 add on. By not including HD-DVD built into the 360 I think Microsoft really hurt the format. BTW, the 360 BlueRay player could be available in as little as 3 months... I just wish they would build it into a future model and get it over with.

 

Frankly, for a typical movie I don't think the extra capacity of BlueRay mattered. However, if you start looking at compilations of TV Series' or a lot of extras you have the potential to fit everything on a single disk or fewer disks which is cheaper and more convenient.

 

WalMart was selling a mid range HD-DVD player for $125 at one store I was at. I'm guessing the HD-DVD add on for the 360 will be in the $75 range at most retailers soon.

[+SpiceWare]

Dont bother getting a PS3 or any HD player without a nice 1080P LCD. Its just not worth it. (I also recommend the PS3 as an HD player cause you can play games on it and Sony will download some neat upgrades and features to the player like DVD upscaling etc.)

 

I had a 480p flatscreen and then got a 720p LCD and it crapped out within a year. I got my money back and used it to 'upgrade' and snag a 1080P Bravia.

 

Now with that thing there are big differences and its totally worth it.

 

So, unless your willing to spend big bucks on a nice TV. Save your money and wait till the TV's get cheaper (the 1080p's, dont settle for less) and then pick up a player, and yes like I said I recommend a PS3. (Unless the Microsoft Xbox 360 blu-ray player is true and not just a rumor).

While 1080p would be nice, my PS3 works extremely well on my 65" Mitsubishi at 1080i.

[Lord Helmet]

Just an FYI...

from the Toshiba press conference it appears as though about half of the HD-DVD sales were the 360 add on. By not including HD-DVD built into the 360 I think Microsoft really hurt the format. BTW, the 360 BlueRay player could be available in as little as 3 months... I just wish they would build it into a future model and get it over with.

 

I'd buy a BluRay ad-on for the 360 today if it were available. I hope they offer it that way.

[MCHufnagel]

Ha! A Blu-Ray add-on for the xbox 360! My kids would kill me! They've been using the Blu-Ray excuse as a reason for me to get a PS3!

[+remowilliams]

Wouldn't a BD addon be an issue for non HDMI 360s at 1080p due to the whole DRM thing?

[jedijeff]

Dont bother getting a PS3 or any HD player without a nice 1080P LCD. Its just not worth it.

 

That's a pretty silly statement imho. You can tell the difference from 720p resolution tv's on up. Besides, why not buy a player now and get all your favorite movies in HD when the are released instead of buying them in regular dvd. You'll just wish you had the HD version later on. Prices on HD movies keep going down and with all the sales there have been you can get some great deals.

[cimerians]

Dont bother getting a PS3 or any HD player without a nice 1080P LCD. Its just not worth it.

 

That's a pretty silly statement imho. You can tell the difference from 720p resolution tv's on up. Besides, why not buy a player now and get all your favorite movies in HD when the are released instead of buying them in regular dvd. You'll just wish you had the HD version later on. Prices on HD movies keep going down and with all the sales there have been you can get some great deals.

 

Silly is it? Your damn opinion not mine. Im trying to lend advice here and not be silly. Go ahead and blow your money.

[Lord Helmet]

Wouldn't a BD addon be an issue for non HDMI 360s at 1080p due to the whole DRM thing?

 

No, it just wouldn't output 1080p without an HDMI hookup.

 

The PS3 only does 1080p when using HDMI, just like all other BRD players.

 

You can use a BRD player without HDMI

[JB]

Frankly, for a typical movie I don't think the extra capacity of BlueRay mattered. However, if you start looking at compilations of TV Series' or a lot of extras you have the potential to fit everything on a single disk or fewer disks which is cheaper and more convenient.

I'm on the other end. I think it's a major step up. I've got plenty of DVDs where you can see the resolution becoming a major issue.

 

 

Wouldn't a BD addon be an issue for non HDMI 360s at 1080p due to the whole DRM thing?

I thought they were still leaving that off, since there were so many non-HDCP displays.

PS3 is stupid. It requires HDCP even for game output.

[JamesD]

Frankly, for a typical movie I don't think the extra capacity of BlueRay mattered. However, if you start looking at compilations of TV Series' or a lot of extras you have the potential to fit everything on a single disk or fewer disks which is cheaper and more convenient.

I'm on the other end. I think it's a major step up. I've got plenty of DVDs where you can see the resolution becoming a major issue.

Um... yeah... too bad I was comparing HD-DVD vs BlueRay, not DVD vs BlueRay.

[JB]

Frankly, for a typical movie I don't think the extra capacity of BlueRay mattered. However, if you start looking at compilations of TV Series' or a lot of extras you have the potential to fit everything on a single disk or fewer disks which is cheaper and more convenient.

I'm on the other end. I think it's a major step up. I've got plenty of DVDs where you can see the resolution becoming a major issue.

Um... yeah... too bad I was comparing HD-DVD vs BlueRay, not DVD vs BlueRay.

Oh.

Yeah, that makes more sense.

Whoops.

*goes and hides somwhere*

 

 

The extra space on BluRay winds up being used for better audio most of the time. BR is more likely to have a lossless audio track than HD-DVD.

 

...

 

I think I found another reason to like BetaRay. BR(Or the official BD abbreviation) is way easier to type than HD-DVD.

[+remowilliams]

I thought they were still leaving that off, since there were so many non-HDCP displays.

PS3 is stupid. It requires HDCP even for game output.

I'm not 100% sure what the answer is there. I do know that HDMI (at least up to 1080i) on games and movies does not have HDCP at the moment on the PS3, as my plasma doesn't support HDCP, or HDMI for that matter just DVI.

[pmpddytim]

So, unless your willing to spend big bucks on a nice TV. Save your money and wait till the TV's get cheaper (the 1080p's, dont settle for less) and then pick up a player,....

 

If you are going to get a TV that is 40 inches or smaller don't waste your money on a 1080p as you most likely won't be able to tell the difference on that small of a screen, and if you can you are sitting too close. Instead pick a set that size by color accuracy, contrast ratio and black levels. Anything bigger and I would get 1080p but nothing 40 or under.

 

-T

[JamesD]

Oh.

Yeah, that makes more sense.

Whoops.

*goes and hides somwhere*

 

 

The extra space on BluRay winds up being used for better audio most of the time. BR is more likely to have a lossless audio track than HD-DVD.

 

...

 

I think I found another reason to like BetaRay. BR(Or the official BD abbreviation) is way easier to type than HD-DVD.

More likely to have a lossless audio track?

Have any of you actually looked at the capacity of HD-DVD? It's freakin huge!

It can hold a lot more hours of video than a typical movie so I'm sure it has plenty of room for audio.

On top of that, to have lossless audio along with the video you'd need to spin the disk pretty fast.

Then you need hardware capable of reading and converting that fast on the input end as well as the output.

I'm guessing there is a maximum data input rate spec that limits both formats.

I think audio quality is probably the same for any of the movies out there.

 

BR is a lot easier to say too.

[cimerians]

So, unless your willing to spend big bucks on a nice TV. Save your money and wait till the TV's get cheaper (the 1080p's, dont settle for less) and then pick up a player,....

 

If you are going to get a TV that is 40 inches or smaller don't waste your money on a 1080p as you most likely won't be able to tell the difference on that small of a screen, and if you can you are sitting too close. Instead pick a set that size by color accuracy, contrast ratio and black levels. Anything bigger and I would get 1080p but nothing 40 or under.

 

-T

 

Totally agree with you. The whole point I'm trying to make earlier is that if you want full enjoyment be prepared to spend bucks.

 

Also, yes if someone buys a PS3 then an HDMI cable is a requirement for 1080P. My LCD has two HDMI inputs.

Unfortunately I have the older model Xbox 360 so I'm missing out a little there but I'm not noticing.

[Atari5200]

has anybody seen any HD-DVD blow out sales or anything?

[FastRobPlus]

There is one reason to own the HD-DVD add on: Collector's value. It's the same reason we buy boxes for classic games. You can't play the box, but you buy it anyway.

 

So that's what I've been doing wrong all this time!

[JB]

Found the HDMI concern...

The publishers agreed not to activate the Image Constraint Token, which is the part of the standard that forces downsampling on non-HDCP delivery paths, until 2012.

 

Of course, they're able to renege at any time, since it's a completely voluntary action.

But it's not very likely, given the reason they agreed not to in the first place is that a LOT of HDTVs only have component HD inputs instead of HDMI.

 

 

Very few DVDs activate the player's Macrovision circuit for similar reasons(it makes a lot of setups choke).

 

 

More likely to have a lossless audio track?

Have any of you actually looked at the capacity of HD-DVD? It's freakin huge!

It can hold a lot more hours of video than a typical movie so I'm sure it has plenty of room for audio.

On top of that, to have lossless audio along with the video you'd need to spin the disk pretty fast.

Then you need hardware capable of reading and converting that fast on the input end as well as the output.

I'm guessing there is a maximum data input rate spec that limits both formats.

I think audio quality is probably the same for any of the movies out there.

 

BR is a lot easier to say too.

HD-DVD and BR aren't as large as you think.

 

Let's compare... Dual-layer DVD is 8.5 GB, and holds a video at 720*480, which is 345,600 pixels per frame.

HD-DVD is 30 GB. 3.5 times more space. And holds a video at 1920*1080, which is 2,073,600 pixels. Which is 6x more pixels per frame.

Seeing a problem?

 

That's where the new codecs come in. H.264 and VC-1 are a good deal more efficient than MPEG2. They have to be, since HD-DVD needs to get twice as much detail per gigabyte. I've been lead to believe that's about the difference in compression levels, though I can't find a real number anywhere.

 

BluRay is a little better, since it holds 50 GB, for 5.9 times the space. A dual-layer BR disk could hold a 1080p movie at almost the same quality level as DVD with the same codecs. With the more advanced codecs, BluRay has more space to play with.

 

 

 

As far as transfer rates go...

DVD gets 11 Megabits per second.

HD-DVD gets 36.55.

BluRay gets 53.95.

This is all by the video spec. Again, BluRay has extra headroom that HD-DVD doesn't have.

 

Certainly, higher read rates are possible(which is why the 360's 12x DVD-ROM with a whopping 133 megabit transfer rate loads faster than the PS3's 2x BluRay drive and it's not-insignificant 73 megabit transfer rate). But they're not relevant to video playback.

And mere mortals cannot hope to comprehend why the BluRay movie spec requires a 2x drive, but does not take full advantage of the 2x bandwidth, instead of making video playback the baseline 1x transfer rate.

Edited February 22, 2008 by JB

[JamesD]

My experience with H.264 gives me the impression that it can at least equal MPEG2 in around 1/4 of the space but that will vary with content. That is based on conversion from MPEG2 to H.264. Without access to the uncompressed source video I don't consider it a totally valid comparison since the converted video can never be better than the source MPEG2.

 

The 2x BlueRay capability in the PS3 is for games, not video. Other players probably don't have that.

[JB]

My experience with H.264 gives me the impression that it can at least equal MPEG2 in around 1/4 of the space but that will vary with content. That is based on conversion from MPEG2 to H.264. Without access to the uncompressed source video I don't consider it a totally valid comparison since the converted video can never be better than the source MPEG2.

 

The 2x BlueRay capability in the PS3 is for games, not video. Other players probably don't have that.

I actually checked the numbers. The bandwidth spec'ed for BluRay movies is right in the middle between the max 1X bandwidth and the max 2x bandwidth.

 

And it reminded me of something I'd read back when the format was introduced that said movies were at 2x.

 

And then I had a flashback to me banging my head against the wall repeatedly at the stupidity of the situation.

 

And then I repeated the incident.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I really should run some test encodes.

Ah well... laziness wins.

[HammR25]

Better get one while they last

 

SEATTLE - Microsoft Corp. said it will stop making HD DVD players for its Xbox 360 video game system after Toshiba Corp. ceded the high-definition video format battle to Sony Corp.'s Blu-ray.

 

Microsoft said Saturday it would continue to provide standard warranty support for its HD DVD players. Toshiba President Atsutoshi Nishida last week estimated about 300,000 people own the Microsoft video player, sold as a separate $130 add-on for the Xbox 360.

 

"HD DVD is one of the several ways we offer a high definition experience to consumers and we will continue to give consumers the choice to enjoy digital distribution of high definition movies and TV shows directly to their living room, along with playback of the DVD movies they already own," Blair Westlake, a corporate vice president of Microsoft's media and entertainment group, said in a written statement.

 

Microsoft was one of HD DVD's main backers, along with Intel Corp. and Japanese electronics maker NEC Corp., and its support for the format was seen as a big win for Toshiba's format.

 

But support for the HD DVD waned as major movie studios — Sony Pictures, Walt Disney Co., News Corp.'s Twentieth Century Fox and Warner Bros. Entertainment — picked Blu-ray to distribute high-def DVDs. Wal-Mart Stores Inc. struck what seemed to be the final blow just over a week ago when it said it would only sell Blu-ray players and discs.

 

Microsoft said it is looking at how the HD DVD technology it has developed, such as HDi, which adds interactive features to HD DVDs, and its VC-1 video encoding technology, can be applied to other platforms.

 

The Redmond-based software maker said the decision to stop selling HD DVD players won't have a material impact on its video game business.

[Shannon]

My guess would be, hopefully, that walmart will clear these out considering they were the ones to drop HD-DVD. As for blu-ray. I'm in no hurry to buy new movies on the new format. We do not even know if it will beat out DVD. If/when it does suceed then all the double dips with better encoding and features should be coming out by then.

[JamesD]

WalMart had already dropped the HD-DVD add on around here and it was sold out online last I checked.

 

I just took the HD plunge myself. I went with a 37" 720p set. Any larger set wouldn't fit in my SUV without laying the box down and the thing looks bigger in my living room that it did in the store. I *almost* bought a 46" Mitsibushi but decided $2300 was just too much for a TV. When I went to purchase the set on my Circuit City card I discovered my account had not been credited for the 47" set I had ordered then canceled before the SuperBowl. I was going to boycott CC over that ongoing fiasco but every other place I went had crappy service too.

 

During the holiday I couldn't walk 5 feet without someone asking if I need help and now I'm totally ignored at BestBuy. Walmart's sales staff was too busy talking about their weekend plans to help anybody and the set I was looking at was locked to a cable. Locked to a cable?? What am I going to do, put it in my pocket and walk out???

At Target the kid was getting off work in a few minutes and didn't want to help anyone... so I bought at Circuit City for the no interest financing. The salesperson verified I hadn't been credited for the previous purchase and just credited the difference between the two TVs. I ended up with 36 months no interest financing instead of 12 because of that.

 

Oh yeah, I also bought a Pioneer BlueRay/DVD drive for my HTPC from MicroCenter. $179 for the OEM drive in store.

[HammR25]

Apparently Best Buy has them for $50 plus 5 free movies right now.