Impulse?

[Gunstar]

Hello!

 

Matthias, you can please the people who own a TeamTap, and add 4-player support to the game

 

Impulse was a single-player game on the Falcon, and so it will be on the Jaguar.

 

Kind regards

Matthias

 

Ah you should do the multiplayer, just to fluster Gunstar.

I'm sure he'd love to spend countless hours and days implementing team-tap support just to "fluster" me, whatever that's supposed mean, it wouldn't. I'm not the only one who said it was the wrong game, and type of game, for multiplayer/teamtap. The suggestion might as well have been to give 'Native' teamtap ability for all the suggestion's logic.

Edited March 6, 2008 by Gunstar

[Isgoed]

Some of you guys are too serious, really.......

 

I'd love to see a new game for the Jaguar that makes full use of the TeamTap, that's all, but I also know that Impulse is not the right candidate.

Maybe that's why I placed an extreme big smile at the end of the sentence?

[Matthias]

Hello!

 

Some of you guys are too serious, really.......

 

I'd love to see a new game for the Jaguar that makes full use of the TeamTap, that's all, but I also know that Impulse is not the right candidate.

Maybe that's why I placed an extreme big smile at the end of the sentence?

 

But i felt the need to clarify this because the player's score is tagged as "1up"

 

Kind regards

[Gunstar]

Some of you guys are too serious, really.......

 

I'd love to see a new game for the Jaguar that makes full use of the TeamTap, that's all, but I also know that Impulse is not the right candidate.

Maybe that's why I placed an extreme big smile at the end of the sentence?

The problem is that in the context, that smile could mean more than just "joking around." For example, I took it as you would be very happy if the teamtap was used. For your true meaning, you should have typed a "J/K" for "just kidding" or something similiar along with the smiley. Smilies help to show the emotion and attitude of the post (rarely, however, can they show us the TRUE MEANING), but they aren't 100%. In your mind, when posting, you may have been joking and used that smiley as a reflection of your joking, but we can't read your mind. You have to be more specific or accept that some people will misunderstand. I myself have learned this the hard way, too, as many posts of mine were taken the totally wrong way, even with the emoticons. As this post reflects, even though I KNOW this now, I still misunderstand people and people still misunderstand me. It's not about being "too serious," it's about me, and others not completely understanding your true intention of the post!

Edited March 7, 2008 by Gunstar

[Isgoed]

Alright guys, understood!

[JagChris]

what?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gunstar]

Exactly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jaguar_fan]

Some of you guys are too serious, really.......

 

I'd love to see a new game for the Jaguar that makes full use of the TeamTap, that's all, but I also know that Impulse is not the right candidate.

Maybe that's why I placed an extreme big smile at the end of the sentence?

The problem is that in the context, that smile could mean more than just "joking around." For example, I took it as you would be very happy if the teamtap was used. For your true meaning, you should have typed a "J/K" for "just kidding" or something similiar along with the smiley. Smilies help to show the emotion and attitude of the post (rarely, however, can they show us the TRUE MEANING), but they aren't 100%. In your mind, when posting, you may have been joking and used that smiley as a reflection of your joking, but we can't read your mind. You have to be more specific or accept that some people will misunderstand. I myself have learned this the hard way, too, as many posts of mine were taken the totally wrong way, even with the emoticons. As this post reflects, even though I KNOW this now, I still misunderstand people and people still misunderstand me. It's not about being "too serious," it's about me, and others not completely understanding your true intention of the post!

 

 

Well said, Gunstar.

 

I also misunderstood Isgoed´s post.

 

But it´s great we can talk about and sort out, without turning into flame wars.

[Gorf]

Hello!

 

Some of you guys are too serious, really.......

 

I'd love to see a new game for the Jaguar that makes full use of the TeamTap, that's all, but I also know that Impulse is not the right candidate.

Maybe that's why I placed an extreme big smile at the end of the sentence?

 

But i felt the need to clarify this because the player's score is tagged as "1up"

 

Kind regards

 

Right, so more than two paddles would be useless. Now I can think of a few variations

of this game(Arkanoid essentially) that might suit 4 players with paddles, but you still

wont need a Team tap. You can read four paddles easily from one port with a simple

wiring adaption. However it's always better to use a 74HC244 or something to buffer

the input. The 74HC244(for those that dont know) is the chip in a Jagpad that selects

the rows and columns of the key pad and buttons. It also acts as a buffer between the

Jag and the user, instead of directly wired to the port..which is fine and possible but

more suspect to static.....ZZZZT! I've never had a problem but I know those who have.

[Matthias]

Hello!

 

Right, so more than two paddles would be useless. Now I can think of a few variations

of this game(Arkanoid essentially) that might suit 4 players with paddles, but you still

wont need a Team tap. You can read four paddles easily from one port with a simple

wiring adaption. However it's always better to use a 74HC244 or something to buffer

the input. The 74HC244(for those that dont know) is the chip in a Jagpad that selects

the rows and columns of the key pad and buttons. It also acts as a buffer between the

Jag and the user, instead of directly wired to the port..which is fine and possible but

more suspect to static.....ZZZZT! I've never had a problem but I know those who have.

 

Currently i am intending to support four types of rotary-devices:

1. Modified Jagpad
   
2. VCS Driving Controller
   
3. digital ST-Computer mouse
   
4. digital Amiga-mouse
   

 

in combination with 4 oder 5 adapters:

1. none (for modified Jagpads)
   
2. VCS Driving Controller (DC) (designed for Tempest 2000)
   
3. digital-ST-computer-mouse adapter designed by Atari
   
4. digital-ST-computer-mouse adapter designed by me
   
5. digital-Amiga-mouse adapter designed by Gordon Gibson
   

 

Although this looks quite complex internally most combinations are using the same signal mapping (examples: an Amiga mouse at an Amiga-mouse-adapter looks for the Jaguar like a ST-mouse at a ST-mouse-adapter, or a modified Jagpad should work like the DC at a DC-adapter). So as long as a new device falls within the range of devices described above it will most likely work with Impulse.

 

Kind regards

Matthias

[Gorf]

Although this looks quite complex internally most combinations are using the same signal mapping (examples: an Amiga mouse at an Amiga-mouse-adapter looks for the Jaguar like a ST-mouse at a ST-mouse-adapter, or a modified Jagpad should work like the DC at a DC-adapter). So as long as a new device falls within the range of devices described above it will most likely work with Impulse.

 

Well right now Im am just using a selection option to select the type

of controller then, I just read from the appropriate table. I will make

it a bit more universal eventually.

[Matthias]

Hello all!

 

Currently i am intending to support four types of rotary-devices:

1. Modified Jagpad
   
2. VCS Driving Controller
   
3. digital ST-Computer mouse
   
4. digital Amiga-mouse
   

 

in combination with 4 oder 5 adapters:

1. none (for modified Jagpads)
   
2. VCS Driving Controller (DC) (designed for Tempest 2000)
   
3. digital-ST-computer-mouse adapter designed by Atari
   
4. digital-ST-computer-mouse adapter designed by me
   
5. digital-Amiga-mouse adapter designed by Gordon Gibson
   

 

 

So after a week without complains about a certain device not being supported, i take it that everybody is happy with the above mentioned range of devices and adapters?

 

Kind regards

Matthias

[Isgoed]

I think that you have most options covered, so no complaints from me

[viMaster]

Hello all!

 

Currently i am intending to support four types of rotary-devices:

1. Modified Jagpad
   
2. VCS Driving Controller
   
3. digital ST-Computer mouse
   
4. digital Amiga-mouse
   

 

in combination with 4 oder 5 adapters:

1. none (for modified Jagpads)
   
2. VCS Driving Controller (DC) (designed for Tempest 2000)
   
3. digital-ST-computer-mouse adapter designed by Atari
   
4. digital-ST-computer-mouse adapter designed by me
   
5. digital-Amiga-mouse adapter designed by Gordon Gibson
   

 

 

So after a week without complains about a certain device not being supported, i take it that everybody is happy with the above mentioned range of devices and adapters?

 

Kind regards

Matthias

Yes, I want to be able to use a toaster!!!

 

Seriously, though, I like the selection and look forward to what you come up with

[Fadest]

The modified lightphaser (like used in your demo) would be cool, that would give a kind of Wiimote control. But maybe, this would become unplayable (too fast movements).

 

I personally prefer the mouse control for a breakout-like

[justclaws]

Hi Matthias,

I am not up-to-speed on this development, so sorry to be a bit dumb on this.

Do these control options mean that you are/are not supporting rotary controllers?

Am I to understand this is what you mean by "modified Jaguar pad" in your message?

Sorry if it says clearly the answer to this and amongst all the noise in the thread I missed it.

Cheers,

Richard/JustClaws.

[Matthias]

Hello Richard!

 

Hi Matthias,

I am not up-to-speed on this development, so sorry to be a bit dumb on this.

 

No problem, i tend to explain things in a confusing manner

 

Do these control options mean that you are/are not supporting rotary controllers?

 

It means that besides the standard Jagpad connected to Joypad-Port 1 the game will also recognize input coming from the above mentioned "rotary"-devices connected to Joypad-Port 2.

 

Am I to understand this is what you mean by "modified Jaguar pad" in your message?

 

A "modifed Jaguar pad" is a Jagpad (either standard or ProController) where the thumbpad (D-pad) is removed and replaced by a turnable knob, this knob will create sequences of LEFT and RIGHT signals when turned. Although this modification is compatible to the usage of a VCS-driving-controller when looking at the LEFT/RIGHT sequenzes,

these 2 types of devices differ in the range of fire-buttons and therefore also in the way to check which button is pressed.

 

 

Kind regards

[Gorf]

@JustClaws

 

Though the manual and docs do not go into great detail on this info,

the fact is, you can read the bits of the Jaguar any way you wish so

any type of controller could be read from there with the right code.

 

The normal Jaguar controller works much like a PC keyboard does,

using row and column addressing to give you up to 24 switches. The

DSP would be the actual 'keyboard controller' if you will. Reading an

encoder will require two of those switches for every axis you want.

A mouse would be dual axis and require 4 switches.

 

I have a project for an adapter to allow up to four trackballs, 8 'paddles'

(8 encoders emulating paddles) and a whole host of interesting

combinations to allow for analog(encoder emulated) yokes and

steering wheels. The adapter will be very inexpensive and allow

even a novice to hook something up to this.

 

It will include software to upload via some form of dev kit( BJL/CD, JUGS

PSE or an Alpine) so you can test all switches and even assign encoders.

 

The purpose will be more aimed at developers at first so that they may

consider writing games with alternate controller options. I think it will be

most useful to even the casual jag dev/user.

[jaguar_fan]

Hello all!

 

Currently i am intending to support four types of rotary-devices:

1. Modified Jagpad
   
2. VCS Driving Controller
   
3. digital ST-Computer mouse
   
4. digital Amiga-mouse
   

 

in combination with 4 oder 5 adapters:

1. none (for modified Jagpads)
   
2. VCS Driving Controller (DC) (designed for Tempest 2000)
   
3. digital-ST-computer-mouse adapter designed by Atari
   
4. digital-ST-computer-mouse adapter designed by me
   
5. digital-Amiga-mouse adapter designed by Gordon Gibson
   

 

 

So after a week without complains about a certain device not being supported, i take it that everybody is happy with the above mentioned range of devices and adapters?

 

Kind regards

Matthias

 

I am completely happy with this amount of options. Great work.

[Gorf]

What would totally rock is if we can figure out how to read a serial mouse

without any additional hardware. Im sure the port can do it, but you will

need to do some polling, which will slow things down a bit. Not everyone

owns an digital (ST/Amiga) mouse.

[Zerosquare]

What would totally rock is if we can figure out how to read a serial mouse

without any additional hardware. Im sure the port can do it, but you will

need to do some polling, which will slow things down a bit. Not everyone

owns an digital (ST/Amiga) mouse.

Good idea. Matthias could reuse the ideas/code I posted here for that. It can be adapted to the joypad port instead of the serial port, but some hardware would be needed to convert between 5V CMOS levels and RS-232 bipolar levels.

 

Or the serial port + a Jaglink (or JagLink2, (s)catbox, etc) could be used also, which would make the hardware simpler, but there's the issue of powering the mouse (serial mice derive their power from unused outputs on the serial port, which don't exist on the Jag).

 

A different solution would be to use one of the PS/2->Atari mouse converters and to choose Atari mouse mode.

[Matthias]

Hello!

 

What would totally rock is if we can figure out how to read a serial mouse

without any additional hardware. Im sure the port can do it, but you will

need to do some polling, which will slow things down a bit. Not everyone

owns an digital (ST/Amiga) mouse.

 

This is no problem, the game can still be played with a standard Jaguar controller.

 

Kind regards

Matthias

[Matthias]

Hello!

 

What would totally rock is if we can figure out how to read a serial mouse

without any additional hardware. Im sure the port can do it, but you will

need to do some polling, which will slow things down a bit. Not everyone

owns an digital (ST/Amiga) mouse.

Good idea. Matthias could reuse the ideas/code I posted here for that. It can be adapted to the joypad port instead of the serial port, but some hardware would be needed to convert between 5V CMOS levels and RS-232 bipolar levels.

 

Or the serial port + a Jaglink (or JagLink2, (s)catbox, etc) could be used also, which would make the hardware simpler, but there's the issue of powering the mouse (serial mice derive their power from unused outputs on the serial port, which don't exist on the Jag).

 

A different solution would be to use one of the PS/2->Atari mouse converters and to choose Atari mouse mode.

 

If these adapters work with the Jaguar then i don't see a need to reinvent the wheel.

 

 

Kind regards

Matthias

[jaguar_fan]

A different solution would be to use one of the PS/2->Atari mouse converters and to choose Atari mouse mode.

 

I do have such a converter. I know that it gets power through the Atari mouse port in order to work. The question is, does the controller port of the Jaguar deliver the needed power and if yes, does the pinning match the one needed to feed the PS/2->Atari mouse converters available?

[Zerosquare]

I do have such a converter. I know that it gets power through the Atari mouse port in order to work. The question is, does the controller port of the Jaguar deliver the needed power and if yes, does the pinning match the one needed to feed the PS/2->Atari mouse converters available?

According to the technical documentation, the Jag controller port supplies 50 mA - it should be enough for most mechanical mice, as well as the low-power optical ones.

 

And there should be no pinning problem - the Jag<->Atari mouse adapter has to supply 5 V to the mouse anyways, otherwise it wouldn't work.