cyco130 Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 (edited) BTW how do i acess H1: in the emulator, BEWE DOS gives me an Error 130. Are you sure you're configuring the H: patch in your emulator correctly? BWDOS 1.30 works pretty well for me in Atari800WinPlus (Altirra does not support some SpartaDos CIO commands for it's H: emulation). Edited February 7, 2010 by cyco130 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 (edited) Well, Bewe-DOS itself (and its formatter) only formats up to 360kbytes - but you can always use SpartaDOS, format a 16MB partition or image and then copy BeweDOS onto it and make it bootable. It will run from a 16MB partition, you can use all kinds of dirs and subdirs, read and write from/to the 16MB image and so on... (afaik BeweDOS allows up to 1424 files per directory)... -Andreas Koch. Edited February 7, 2010 by CharlieChaplin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox-1 / mnx Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 I'm not sure but IIRC the H: device emulates a DOS2.5/MyDOS format "disk" and it may be BeWe-DOS can't read these disk formats by default. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syfo-Dyas Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 I'll experiment some more after work. So how do I make a 16MB Parition or image in SpartaDOS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 (edited) I'm not sure but IIRC the H: device emulates a DOS2.5/MyDOS format "disk" and it may be BeWe-DOS can't read these disk formats by default. Yep, thats it. Bewe-DOS itself cannot read DOS 2.x diskettes internally, only the external MENU.COM program of BeweDOs can read+write DOS 2.x diskettes. Think there was a tool named HDFORMAT.COM which lets you format a 16MB harddisk partition - but the tool only formatted and did NOT write a DIR. So one has to use another tool named FMTDIR.COM (by Bob Puff) to write the Directory in MyDOS or SpartaDOS style. When done, simply copy the Bewe-DOS (it is a file!) onto that 16MB partition or image, copy also BOOT.COM onto this partition, then load Boot.Com and type in the name of Bewe-DOS, so it will be booted automatically from this 16MB image from now on (and as soon as Bewe-DOs boots from this 16MB image, one can delete Boot.Com there)... Guess there are ways to make this process easier (e.g. generate a batch-file with all nescessary tools on one Bewe-DOS disk, name the disk-image e.g. FMT16MB.ATR). This is just what I remember, I do not have a harddisk for the A8 right now and err, I never use SpartaDOS (and Bewe-DOS very rarely, mostly to convert files on SpartaDOS disks back to DOS 2.x disks)... Edit: On the SpartaDOS disks 3.2f and 3.2g there is a tool named HDINIT.COM to format a HD partition or image. -Andreas Koch. Edited February 7, 2010 by CharlieChaplin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyco130 Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 I'm not sure but IIRC the H: device emulates a DOS2.5/MyDOS format "disk" and it may be BeWe-DOS can't read these disk formats by default. I'm pretty sure it isn't the case, at least for Atari800. It intercepts at CIO level not at SIO level. If it emulated a disk, the device would be called "Dn:". The approach you describe is taken by Sio2Pc programs. I'm not aware of any emulator that does that. And as I told above, "H:" device does work for me with BW-DOS (that's one of the reasons I use BW instead of SpartaDos when using an emulator). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syfo-Dyas Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 (edited) EDIT: H Patch was not set under emulation. HD1: now works. I made a 16MB ATR HD image in APE, but when I load it as DF2 it also says it has 000sectors. So how do I format that under emulation or on my Atari? I'm already presuming I need SpartaDOS and not BEWE DOS for this task. . Edited February 8, 2010 by Syfo-Dyas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bf2k+ Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 And as I told above, "H:" device does work for me with BW-DOS (that's one of the reasons I use BW instead of SpartaDos when using an emulator). I don't use anything but SpartaDOS 3 on a800winplus emulator and the H: device works fine ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syfo-Dyas Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Ya, it was a patching problem with the emulator. I don't have a HD drive for my real Atari yet. I was thinking the SDrive NUXX could work as such, but I guess not. No big deal though really. I just wanted to get some of those docs onto the PC so I could update them with pics and what not in PDF format. All I need now is to know how to format a 16MB ATR image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roydea6 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 All I need now is to know how to format a 16MB ATR image. Use this link to get MakeAtr v0.6: http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/149506-converting-files/page__p__1823809__hl__makeAtr%20__fromsearch__1?do=findComment&comment=1823809 After you download the program-- Run the program and CREATE an ATR Custom 65535 by 256 sector size------Select the Spartados option--- Click on the OK button. Save file just created with MakeAtr named with a file name you will remember as a 16MB image. Load emulator of choice with a spartados version of choice on D1: Load the file you just made with MakeAtr on D2: Copy the DOS of you choice to the atr. COPY X1111.DOS D2:X1111.DOS (example only) then on the command line type-- BOOT D2:X1111.DOS Other software tools to do this are available but more confusing to explain. This is supposing that you have an existing Spartados ATR available to copy DOS from. The file previously mentioned authored by Puff would be my first choice to use but I don't now if it is in the Public Domain or I would upload it. Another method if you have a 16MB Spartados atr on you PC is to make a copy of it and load it in the emulator and Delete every thing except XXXXX.DOS---- now you have a blank SDX 16MB atr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syfo-Dyas Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Everything worked well on the Emulator. On my SDrive NUXX, it won't boot. And if I boot off SpartDOS X 4.42, it won't read the drive, but gives me a NAK error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyco130 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 I don't use anything but SpartaDOS 3 on a800winplus emulator and the H: device works fine ??? Sorry, I meant SDX. I don't know about SD 3 and H:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syfo-Dyas Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 By SDrive Nuxx I meant I'm back on the real Atari, not the emu. I have zero issues with the emu now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 EDIT: H Patch was not set under emulation. HD1: now works. I made a 16MB ATR HD image in APE, but when I load it as DF2 it also says it has 000sectors. So how do I format that under emulation or on my Atari? I'm already presuming I need SpartaDOS and not BEWE DOS for this task. . Well, it is easy, like I already said: Ape and other tools will not always write a complete VTOC or DIR, they just format the disk. Use a DOS to format to standard 90k, 130k, 180k or 360k formats with VTOC+DIR - but in your case to write a valid VTOC+DIR for a 16MB image in SpartaDOS, load a tool named "FMTDIR.COM" by Bob Puff. This tool will ask about the drive number (1-9) and the format (MyDOS or SpartaDOS) to write a DIR, so that no longer 000 free sectors appears... Attached the file here - but it is on a MyDOS 4.50 disk. Maybe you can just load it from MyDOS (e.g. drive 1) and then write a DIR in SpartaDOS format (to e.g. drive 2). If it does not work, then copy FMTDIR to a SpartaDOS disk first and load it from there... -Andreas Koch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox-1 / mnx Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Check the official Black-Box site C.S.S. for more info and (harddisk-)software Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syfo-Dyas Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 (edited) Bob Puff... ...I remember that name from back in the day... Or at least I think I do, that sounds REALLY familiar. Anyhow, I'll tinker with this new software, but first I must step out for some cheese sticks! EDIT: And sorry Charlie, didn't realize that before you stated that the HD format software also worked with images. That's why I skipped the advice all together. Edited February 10, 2010 by Syfo-Dyas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syfo-Dyas Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 (edited) Alright, I created the 16MB image with makeATR.exe. I then loaded it into Atari 800Win Plus 3.1 as drive 2. I loaded the MyDOS atr with FMTDIR as drive 1. And I booted from a Cart Image of SpartaDOS X. After running FMTDIR it says that I have 4027 sectors free. I forget how many sectors or in a byte, or how many bytes per KB (I've not been using my Atari for years), but that seems rather small doesn't it? Also this does now work with my SDrive NUXX on the Real Atari. Thankx Charlie! Now assuming 4027 sectors does reflect the 16MB size of my Hard Drive image. What file then do I need from BEWE DOS to set as the BOOT file in order to make the drive bootable? I'm looking through the docs, but have not run across it yet. EDIT: I ran FMTDIR on the Real Atari and now I have a 65534 Sector drive!!! Edited February 10, 2010 by Syfo-Dyas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bf2k+ Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 After running FMTDIR it says that I have 4027 sectors free. That's not right! EDIT: I ran FMTDIR on the Real Atari and now I have a 65534 Sector drive!!! Correct! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syfo-Dyas Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Another reminder to avoid emulators when doing anything but playing games. So, if I want to make a Bootable BEWE DOS disk, which file should I set to BOOT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 (edited) Well, I already wrote it shortly in post 30, but maybe you need more details... - assuming you now have a working 16MB image with VTOC and Directory; BeweDOS = bootdrive 1, the 16 MB image should be some other drive ( 2-8 )... - boot BeweDOS without Basic (with OPTION key pressed on the real Atari, until the booting process starts), when the D1: prompt of BeweDOS appears, load Menu.COM (from BeweDOS and use Bewe`s Menu.COM !), it will read the directory of the BeweDOS disk - use the copy function of Menu.COM (either set the cursor with some keystrokes to Copy or type C; tag the BeweDOS file) to copy BeweDOS (XBW...DOS, since it is a normal file) onto the 16MB image ( drive 2-8 ) - next copy the file BOOT.COM (from BeweDOs, drive 1) onto the 16MB image ( drive 2-8 ) - swap drives, so that the 16MB image now becomes drive 1 and BeweDOS becomes some other drive (under Ape, simply type 1 and then a number from 2-8; under SIO2PC type X and then 1 followed by 2-8; as of yet, I have no clue how that is done with SDrive/SDriveNuxx or SIO2SD and similar devices, but it is possible, simply read the manual!) - since BeweDOs is (hopefully) still in memory, load BOOT.COM (now also on drive 1, the 16MB image) with Bewe-DOS - when loaded, type in the name of the BeweDOS on the 16MB image, that should be booted from now on (XBW...DOS) - when done, you have a bootable 16MB image - (after pressing ESC to leave BOOT.COM) do a coldstart, e.g. type RUN E477 - now your 16MB image should boot fine with BeweDOS (at least I hope so)... - you can now delete BOOT.COM if you want and copy everything onto that 16MB image you like - note that not every SpartaDOS program will work under BeweDOS and vice versa; some SpartaDOS programs are also "fixed" for a certain version of SpartaDOS e.g. 3.2d (you may try one of the programs written by Fox-1 to fool some of these programs, e.g. Faker.COM and/or Setver.COM which can be found on the Sparta-Tool-Disk 16 or just Sparta16.ATR) - if you are a fan of DOS 2.0/DOS 2.5/MyDOS menus (the DUP.SYS), you can find a similar thing under SpartaDOS with the file Dosmenu.COM (its on the SpartaDOS 3.2f and 3.2g disks) - I have attached all my SpartaDOS tools here, hopefully they are of some use for you... Greetings, Andreas Koch. P.S.: Besides SpartaDOS, SpartaDOS X and BeweDOS there is also RealDOS that is Sparta compatible (if interested, someone may point you to a download link or the official homepage, otherwise I may upload what I have)... Edited February 10, 2010 by CharlieChaplin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 (edited) Short addendum... - on disk 19 (Sparta19.ATR) attached above one can also find a sort of gamedos for SpartaDOS format, it is called MSDOS (abbreviation for Micro-Sparta-DOS) and written by Bewesoft/Jiri Bernasek - there is also a DOS boot manager, named BOOTCFG48.COM on disk 19, this one should be "similar" to a boot-manager on modern PC`s, where one can have multiple OS`s (like MS-DOS, Windows, Linux, OS/2, etc.) and choose upon start-up which OS to load. With this tool one should be able to have various SpartaDOS (maybe also Bewe-DOs, RealDOS) versions on one disk/harddisk/image and choose which one to load upon start-up. The program should present a menu (similar to a gamedos menu) and one should be able to choose a DOS version to load (while BOOT.COM is fixed and will always load just one DOS version, the one you have set-up when Boot.COM was loaded; while this tool allows one to always boot a different DOS version thats available on the disk/image). Alas, I did not understand -allthough I read the docs- how this tool works or if it works at all. So it is up to the SpartaDOS users out there to find out more about this tool (BootCFG48) and maybe write a better documentation for it, so that everyone is able to use it (if it works at all)... - Andreas Koch. Edited February 10, 2010 by CharlieChaplin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syfo-Dyas Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Andreas/Charlie: You are a wellspring of information! Thank you for taking the time to go into minute detail. I had taken a vacation from my Atari years ago because I couldn't afford hard drives and what have you, so naturally a lot of the SpartaDOS commands and such that I knew back then have slipped from memory. Likewise since I was never able to afford a hard drive or anything to that effect, I never had the chance to familiarize my self with setting up a Hard Drive and the like. So thankx again for refreshing my memory and helping me out with those things I was totally clueless about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syfo-Dyas Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 I can't find much about RealDOS my self, so sure, I'd be interested in knowing more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox-1 / mnx Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 I can't find much about RealDOS my self, so sure, I'd be interested in knowing more! Real.DOS looks, feels and works like Sparta-DOS but is written from scratch while being highly compatible with Sparta-DOS 3.x. It has a modular set-up, a bit like BeWe- and Sparta-DOS X. Some info was available on Stephens site but it's not there anymore. I only have early beta versions of this DOS but am not allowed to pass them to anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 (edited) Hmm, strange - I seem to remember that RealDOS was available freely for download on Stephen`s site, think that was were I got version 024 from. Guess it came on a x megabytes big ATR image (could have been 1 or 2 MB, but I am not sure anymore). After downloading it I copied the DOS and all its tools onto several single-density (90k) images... As said before I could upload RealDOS and all its tools here - but it would be much easier, if Stephen provides a link to his homepage or uploads it here on atari-age (I want to avoid any kind of trouble with Stephen, so I am not gonna upload it now)... think I simply ask him in the SpartaDOS 3.3 topic if he will upload it... -Andreas Koch. Edited February 11, 2010 by CharlieChaplin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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