Looks like Actionauts is ready

[supercat]

http://www.randomterrain.com/atari-2600-me...rite-games.html

 

I see you don't like Pitfall/Pitfall II. I agree with your complaints, but think that there is some value in repeatable games. IMHO, the right approach (which I first saw in a T**ris clone) is to use a seeded random generator, where the player is allowed to select a seed from an essentially-infinite pool. This would allow a player to practice a particular sequence if desired to get good at it, but if any sequence got boring the player could choose another.

 

Such a scheme would also allow contests of e.g. seeing who can do the best on game #4928 in one week. That would allow players to see who was best at analyzing a particular random arrangement and dealing with it. Unless someone happened to have already mastered that particular game (chosen at random), the contest would measure skill rather than just memorized patterns.

[rob fulop]

Put another way, if everybody who enjoys homebrew games agreed that $2.5K / month is a reasonable wage for a designer/programmer to earn crafting 2600 games ... there would be more people crafting them.

 

When you say $2.5K/month, are you figuring 160 hours/month of productive nose-to-the-grindstone work for that $2.5K? Games here are generally not produced in 40-hour work weeks. More like two hours here, thirty minutes there, twelve hours there, etc. Since the time spend programming can probably vary from 0 to 50 hours in a week, a monthly salary isn't really a meaningful measurement.

 

As for time, I could probably have shipped Strat-O-Gems after I'd spent about a quarter of the time I actually spent, and it probably would have been reasonably well received. Since I was doing it on my own time, however, and wanted it to have some extra-neat features, I spent a lot of time refining it. From an economic standpoint, that was probably not an optimal use of time, but from a personal satisfaction standpoint, it's just fine.

 

But it has to start with people out here biting the bullet and asking themselves would they pay $10-$20 more in order to create at least some SEMBLANCE of 'fairness' to both parties? Because right now, it's not "fair" from an economic standpoint. The community relies on "donations" of designers time and talent .. and seems to react rather strongly to anybody who wishes to create a more balanced situation by asking to have their costs reimbursed. There is a sense of entitlement going on that I don't understand .. sort of "how DARE you ask to be compensated" .. like somehow such is anti-community thinking.

 

What matters isn't what's "fair". What matters are the price levels that will affect buyers, and the royalty levels that will attract developers. To the extent that they overlap, great. If they don't overlap, there's no meaningful market.

 

An aspect, though, that you're probably not aware of is that on many games a number of people will help out without payment. Mostly pretty small contributions (an hour or two here and there). If the programmer's not seen as making any real money, someone who draws up some graphics probably won't mind not getting a cut. But if the programmers start making real money for their time, then the other contributors would want some payment as well. Not unreasonable, but it would likely lead to friction that could be more easily avoided with the generalized-reciprocity model (I helped you with some graphics for your game, so you'll help me with some sound in my next one, etc.)

 

??? Of course people help each other without cash payment all the time. I'm helping two startups without expecting compensation right now .. obviously there are other incentives involved ... the relationship . the experience gained, etc. Sometime I'll help simply to feel like I'm being a 'nice guy' .. usually such is for a not-for-profit cause, as you stated.

 

I recall meeting you the first time over the phone in October, after you offered to help polish Actionauts. I recall in our first phone conversation offering you one my few remaining Cubicolor carts in exchange for your help. I figured you'd either value such a thing, or you could just sell it on Ebay as compensation for your time and expertise. For whatever reason, you declined my offer. So I'll send you off Actionauts #2 and some other stuff that you won't hate and assume you are cool with that, and that you enjoyed helping me and getting to know each other a bit. It wasn't like I went out there looking for you, you approached me ... I just reread the email! So yeah, i do appreciate and understand the 'tit for tat' nature of the world, I think .. it's not always about CASH compensation .. but we do always receive SOMETHING in exchange for helping .. even if simply the feeling of being 'helpful' which is often enough. I think maybe in your case, your generousity to this community is repayed by the admiration you receive from being very skilled at the craft of 2600 development. Or maybe not .. point is .. you receive SOMETHING in exchange that makes it 'worth it' to you, obviously.

Edited April 14, 2008 by rob fulop

[StanJr]

Sorry, Rob. I just don't see where you are getting this "entitlement" vibe??? I certainly don't feel like homebrewers owe me games and should slave over code for hours on end only to turn around and GIVE me the fruit of their labors. And I'm not sure I get that sense from anyone else.

 

Hell, I'm damn grateful to each and every homebrewer for their efforts, their drive, their devotion, their love of the hobby. And I am very willing to spend money to help reimburse them for those things. However, there are reasonable limits to what I can spend on an Atari game in the year 2008. I have a hard enough time rationalizing spending upwards of $60 for a modern game and as credit scrolls will tell you, modern games have literally THOUSANDS of people working on them. (Based on the arguments you are putting forth can you reasonably say all of those people are being adequately compensated?) I am willing to spend in the neighborhood of $30 for Homebrew games, but even then I may only be able to afford one or two games a year.

 

I don't think for a minute that homebrewers are getting paid what they are worth in dollars and cents, but I also don't assume they are solely coding games for dollars and cents either. We are a community and as such we support each other in a myriad of ways. We talk about old games we love, we speculate about games that never were, we play games together, we get excited about new games, we share experiences, etc. Fortunately we have extremely talented people out there who have the enthusiasm and drive to write new games for an old gaming system we all love. I don't think anyone here feels that those people owe them anything. If anything I think we are all extremely grateful for the time and effort they put forth and look forward with eager anticipation to their next great game. And chances are good, we'll be right there at the Atariage store ready to put down what we are able to support those endeavors.

 

All of that is said from a "gamer's" point of view.

 

What you are doing is selling off pieces of history, collector's items. I don't feel you owe it to me or anyone else to do that. I think you earned major cool points from every geek and dork on this site the moment you announced your intentions to do so. (God knows, you are already a living legend around here) The trouble came when you appeared insulted when people suggested that they couldn't pay you what you felt you were worth for doing this. We all agree that you should be compensated for your time and effort, we disagreed on what level we were able to do that, and ultimately we did not meet your expectations. It is not like we are all sitting on piles of money around here and passing judgment on your and your work for the fun of it. I think you did the right thing, you offered your collector's items at a set price and let those that could afford to indulge do so. That is fair and honest in a capitalist system. However, the discussion you set out to spark has led to some very wrong conclusions.

 

Overall, I don't think raising the price of homebrews in general will bolster the hobby. I think it will lead to a decrease in homebrew sales and production simply because there aren't enough people in this hobby with the kind of bank accounts needed to support such a price increase. Increase homebrews to $30-$35, the impact will be visible, but less. Increase to $50 a game, and I think you'll see a sharp decline. This is due in part to the fact that the competition in the mind of the consumer becomes, " do I pay $50 for this new Wii game, or this new Atari game..." and that is a much tougher call to make. In an ideal world, I'd pay $100 for every homebrew game in the Atariage store purely to show my support and love for those who work so hard to make these games. Sadly we do not live in an ideal world and it has been over a year since I have been able to buy a homebrew game...

[rob fulop]

Demon Attack is my favorite:

 

When I first saw Demon Attack, I thought there must be some special circuitry in there or something to do those magical colors. The irony is that as kernels go it's actually comparatively simple. The key wasn't technical wizardry, but rather the decision to use real artists (well, the decision to use a black background probably helped too).

Sort of. Actually the trick to the Demon Attack graphics was it was the first game to use my scotch taped/rubber banded dedicated 2600 sprite animation authoring tool that ran on the Atari 800. The first time Michael Becker made a little test animation and we ran Bob Smith's utility that successfully squirted his saved sprite data straight into the Demon Attack assembly code and it looked the same on the VCS as it did on the 800 was HUGE! Before that day, all 2600 graphics ever seen were made using a #2 pencil, a sheet of graph paper, a lot of erasing, and a list of hex codes that were then retyped into the source assembly code, typically introducing a minimum of two pixel errors per 8*8 graphic stamp.

[Crazy Climber]

You need to understand something about the people in this hobby. The people in this hobby do not want this hobby to grow. The Atari 2600 community is underground, and there are people here who want it to remain that way. I personally disagree with this sentiment, but I fully understand it.

C'mon .. any community that transacts business regularly on EBAY is hardly "underground". Any community that meets regularly in Las Vegas is not one that could be described as a 'secret society' of any kind.

Maybe, I am using the wrong word. It's a small community comparatively to coin collecting and comic book collecting. I have been ridiculed by the community for thinking that someday that Video Game collecting would be on the same level. For the intense ataganism I recieved by suggesting that classic video games would be worth way more than they are now, I rationalized this due to a small town type of attitude where the people of the town don't want too many new people to move in because it would ruin the make up of the community. I had to rationalize why people felt this way and hence why I have the perspective I have. Who knows it could very well be that I am completely off base. It would not be the first time I have been off base admittedly.

 

Here is an example of the antagonism I have received.

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=115655

 

Edit: in fact here is a post by Dino that reflects exactly what I was saying. Post #23

 

"On the contrary, it will be BETTER for collectors, as those who stay in the hobby will be able to amass far better collections than they would if the collector base increased to 100,000 and demand for games went through the roof.

 

 

I'm in 2 minds as to whether i want more people to join the hobby. The reason I say this is if 100,000 people joined and started to demand some of the rarities, driving prices through the roof, you would find that a lot of speculative collectors and re-sellers would jump on the bandwagon and try to make a quick buck. You can see from Ebay already how nasty people get when it comes to rarities, with side-deals and re-selling because the monetary value is quite high. The rate of scams is also on the increase. For a lot of people, $1k+ is a LOT of money and unfortunately, there are a lot of people who will backstab and cheat and lie to get true collectors to fork out that kind of money. If the most rare items sold for $100 tops, these hawkers and scammers would disappear and the hobby would be left to the collectors."

Quick question although I think I have asked you this before Homer....

 

How many homebrew games do you own?

 

Homebrew games are the only possibility of any long term future in this hobby. New programmers developing games could keep it alive, younger people could become interested in it as a "hobby" if they at least made a few thousand bucks for a game. They could tell there other programmer friends, generate some new blood in the Atari world. Kind of like a club that fixes up old cars but replace the gear heads with Computer guys. Otherwise if you really think about it in 100 years we will all be dead and Eli's ladder carts will be used as couch legs. Coins, Baseball cards and comics are still big because they are still being made which means people are still generating income from them. New people are still growing up collecting them and creating nostalic moments with them. Most High School students think the first system made was the NES, wait another 15 years and they will probably think it was the Playstaion. The Atari scene will be gone someday if there is no new collectors/fans, sorry but it is true. Support Homebrews if you want to keep it going and want the numbers to increase

[supercat]

Overall, I don't think raising the price of homebrews in general will bolster the hobby. I think it will lead to a decrease in homebrew sales and production simply because there aren't enough people in this hobby with the kind of bank accounts needed to support such a price increase. Increase homebrews to $30-$35, the impact will be visible, but less. Increase to $50 a game, and I think you'll see a sharp decline.

 

Increasing the cost of games here by $5 would allow programmers to receive twice the royalties for each game sold. I really doubt that it would cause a 50% drop in unit sales.

 

On the other hand, I've gotten the impression from Albert that he's getting somewhat sick of all the labor required to build cartridges. I think it should be possible to reduce that greatly, without increasing out-of-pocket expenses too badly. Have to see how all that pans out.

[rob fulop]

I think it's pretty obvious that a larger community would drive prices UP for the COLLECTORS who chase hard to find obscure items ... and at the same time prices for homebrew games would come DOWN, as there would be more incentive to create such games since there would be more potential sales. So I can see people falling out on this issue along these lines .. an avid COLLECTOR doesn't want to pay more for their "rare finds" so they prefer a smaller community .... while an avid GAMER wishes to pay less for better games so 'the more the merrier' from their point of view.

[supercat]

Before that day, all 2600 graphics ever seen were made using a #2 pencil, a sheet of graph paper, a lot of erasing, and a list of hex codes that were then retyped into the source assembly code, typically introducing a minimum of two pixel errors per 8*8 graphic stamp.

 

Nobody keyed the stuff into a text editor? I think 6502 assemblers have long recognized "%" as a numerical prefix for binary, so I would think the easiest way to draw a smiley face would be something like:

smile:
 byte %00111100
 byte %01000010
 byte %10011001
 byte %10100101
 byte %10000001
 byte %10100101
 byte %01000010
 byte %00111100

Not the most beautiful thing in the world, but workable.

[homerwannabee]

You need to understand something about the people in this hobby. The people in this hobby do not want this hobby to grow. The Atari 2600 community is underground, and there are people here who want it to remain that way. I personally disagree with this sentiment, but I fully understand it.

C'mon .. any community that transacts business regularly on EBAY is hardly "underground". Any community that meets regularly in Las Vegas is not one that could be described as a 'secret society' of any kind.

Maybe, I am using the wrong word. It's a small community comparatively to coin collecting and comic book collecting. I have been ridiculed by the community for thinking that someday that Video Game collecting would be on the same level. For the intense ataganism I recieved by suggesting that classic video games would be worth way more than they are now, I rationalized this due to a small town type of attitude where the people of the town don't want too many new people to move in because it would ruin the make up of the community. I had to rationalize why people felt this way and hence why I have the perspective I have. Who knows it could very well be that I am completely off base. It would not be the first time I have been off base admittedly.

 

Here is an example of the antagonism I have received.

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=115655

 

Edit: in fact here is a post by Dino that reflects exactly what I was saying. Post #23

 

"On the contrary, it will be BETTER for collectors, as those who stay in the hobby will be able to amass far better collections than they would if the collector base increased to 100,000 and demand for games went through the roof.

 

 

I'm in 2 minds as to whether i want more people to join the hobby. The reason I say this is if 100,000 people joined and started to demand some of the rarities, driving prices through the roof, you would find that a lot of speculative collectors and re-sellers would jump on the bandwagon and try to make a quick buck. You can see from Ebay already how nasty people get when it comes to rarities, with side-deals and re-selling because the monetary value is quite high. The rate of scams is also on the increase. For a lot of people, $1k+ is a LOT of money and unfortunately, there are a lot of people who will backstab and cheat and lie to get true collectors to fork out that kind of money. If the most rare items sold for $100 tops, these hawkers and scammers would disappear and the hobby would be left to the collectors."

Quick question although I think I have asked you this before Homer....

 

How many homebrew games do you own?

 

Homebrew games are the only possibility of any long term future in this hobby. New programmers developing games could keep it alive, younger people could become interested in it as a "hobby" if they at least made a few thousand bucks for a game. They could tell there other programmer friends, generate some new blood in the Atari world. Kind of like a club that fixes up old cars but replace the gear heads with Computer guys. Otherwise if you really think about it in 100 years we will all be dead and Eli's ladder carts will be used as couch legs. Coins, Baseball cards and comics are still big because they are still being made which means people are still generating income from them. New people are still growing up collecting them and creating nostalic moments with them. Most High School students think the first system made was the NES, wait another 15 years and they will probably think it was the Playstaion. The Atari scene will be gone someday if there is no new collectors/fans, sorry but it is true. Support Homebrews if you want to keep it going and want the numbers to increase

Why absolutely none. But I totally admire anyone who makes a homebrew. In fact I really respect homebrewers a lot. I think in the past I was more carried away with getting every possible old school game out there, and my philosophy was that I would not have as much money for the old school games if I bought homebrews. After Gamma Attack, Red Sea, Crossing, and Birthday Mania came out I came to the stark realization that there was no way I would be able to have every single NTSC Atari 2600 game ever made. Then I had to sell off a lot of my more expensive stuff in my collection just to pay the bills. After that I am no longer in the "Gotta have them all mind set." I still have a lot of games I am more gaming enthusiast than anything else as of late. I did try to get Robs actionauts game(Yes I realize that this is technically not a homebrew.) but all the spots were filled before I could get one. In the future I might just think about getting a home brew or two.

Edited April 14, 2008 by homerwannabee

[homerwannabee]

I think it's pretty obvious that a larger community would drive prices UP for the COLLECTORS who chase hard to find obscure items ... and at the same time prices for homebrew games would come DOWN, as there would be more incentive to create such games since there would be more potential sales. So I can see people falling out on this issue along these lines .. an avid COLLECTOR doesn't want to pay more for their "rare finds" so they prefer a smaller community .... while an avid GAMER wishes to pay less for better games so 'the more the merrier' from their point of view.

Thank you very much. That is exactly what I was trying to say.

[StanJr]

Overall, I don't think raising the price of homebrews in general will bolster the hobby. I think it will lead to a decrease in homebrew sales and production simply because there aren't enough people in this hobby with the kind of bank accounts needed to support such a price increase. Increase homebrews to $30-$35, the impact will be visible, but less. Increase to $50 a game, and I think you'll see a sharp decline.

 

Increasing the cost of games here by $5 would allow programmers to receive twice the royalties for each game sold. I really doubt that it would cause a 50% drop in unit sales.

 

 

I thought that was what I was expressing. Sorry if it sounded otherwise. I am all for a $5 increase, my ability to purchase wouldn't be affected that much and the homebrewers would get more money! It is the $50 price tag I wouldn't be able to support.

[supercat]

I recall meeting you the first time over the phone in October, after you offered to help polish Actionauts. I recall in our first phone conversation offering you one my few remaining Cubicolor carts in exchange for your help. I figured you'd either value such a thing, or you could just sell it on Ebay as compensation for your time and expertise. For whatever reason, you declined my offer.

 

I did not intend any offense. I prefer to have my 'sentimental' items separate from my valuable ones, such that I can sell valuable items without being torn by sentimental attachment, and I can keep sentimental items without worrying about whether it would make more sense to sell them.

 

I believe I suggested that (in addition to a copy of the Actionauts cart) I'd like something like a personally-autographed Demon Attack (probably use something like a white paint pen so it shows up on the label). Although I didn't mention at the time, maybe Missile Command too. I was about to say that Demon Attack was the first game of yours I ever saw, but I almost certainly saw Missile Command and, for that matter, Night Driver too. Never developed much of an attachment for Night Driver, though.

[rob fulop]

Before that day, all 2600 graphics ever seen were made using a #2 pencil, a sheet of graph paper, a lot of erasing, and a list of hex codes that were then retyped into the source assembly code, typically introducing a minimum of two pixel errors per 8*8 graphic stamp.

 

Nobody keyed the stuff into a text editor? I think 6502 assemblers have long recognized "%" as a numerical prefix for binary, so I would think the easiest way to draw a smiley face would be something like:

smile:
 byte %00111100
 byte %01000010
 byte %10011001
 byte %10100101
 byte %10000001
 byte %10100101
 byte %01000010
 byte %00111100

Not the most beautiful thing in the world, but workable.

I don't recall EVER entering straight binary ... only two digit hex codes, eight per line, transcribed from graph paper. Somewhere in my basement I have a folder filled with yellowed sheets of graph paper from Atari containing the final sprite graphics from Night Driver, Atari 800 Space Invaders, and Missile Command including the infamous "RF" sprite graphic which stood in place of the rightmost destroyed city at the end of Game #13

[+Random Terrain]

Actually the trick to the Demon Attack graphics was it was the first game to use my scotch taped/rubber banded dedicated 2600 sprite animation authoring tool that ran on the Atari 800. The first time Michael Becker made a little test animation and we ran Bob Smith's utility that successfully squirted his saved sprite data straight into the Demon Attack assembly code and it looked the same on the VCS as it did on the 800 was HUGE! Before that day, all 2600 graphics ever seen were made using a #2 pencil, a sheet of graph paper, a lot of erasing, and a list of hex codes that were then retyped into the source assembly code, typically introducing a minimum of two pixel errors per 8*8 graphic stamp.

Is it OK if I add that quote to your other quote on this page:

 

http://www.randomterrain.com/atari-2600-me...rite-games.html

[StanJr]

Somewhere in my basement I have a folder filled with yellowed sheets of graph paper from Atari containing the final sprite graphics from Night Driver, Atari 800 Space Invaders, and Missile Command including the infamous "RF" sprite graphic which stood in place of the rightmost destroyed city at the end of Game #13

 

 

Now THAT is some seriously cool stuff.

[supercat]

...including the infamous "RF" sprite graphic which stood in place of the rightmost destroyed city at the end of Game #13

 

Hmm... I would have expected that you would have figured the last one in your head, to avoid any evidence of sneaking in something. Maybe I'm weird, but I often key in hex graphics directly if I know what something's supposed to look like. RF would be (top down, MSB left) $E7 $94 $94 $E6 $C4 $A4 $94 There are a few possible design variations, but that would be a reasonable one.

 

Any interesting annotations on any of the artwork?

 

 

Incidentally, the "ATARIAGE" lettering in Stella' Stocking was keyed in direct hex (with a little trial and error). The gems in Strat-O-Gems were done in a text editor, though.

Edited April 14, 2008 by supercat

[+Random Terrain]

IMHO, the right approach (which I first saw in a T**ris clone) is to use a seeded random generator, where the player is allowed to select a seed from an essentially-infinite pool. This would allow a player to practice a particular sequence if desired to get good at it, but if any sequence got boring the player could choose another.

 

Such a scheme would also allow contests of e.g. seeing who can do the best on game #4928 in one week. That would allow players to see who was best at analyzing a particular random arrangement and dealing with it. Unless someone happened to have already mastered that particular game (chosen at random), the contest would measure skill rather than just memorized patterns.

I think I first saw that kind of thing in the 3DO game AD&D Slayer:

 

http://www.mobygames.com/game/3do/slayer/c...eCoverId,44347/

 

You entered a number and could replay that level if you wanted to by using the same number. Whether the game lets you enter a number or the game is simply different every time you play, either is OK with me. As long as I get my random game and I don't know what's coming around the corner, I'm happy.

[rob fulop]

...including the infamous "RF" sprite graphic which stood in place of the rightmost destroyed city at the end of Game #13

 

Hmm... I would have expected that you would have figured the last one in your head, to avoid any evidence of sneaking in something. Maybe I'm weird, but I often key in hex graphics directly if I know what something's supposed to look like. RF would be (top down, MSB left) $E7 $94 $94 $E6 $C4 $A4 $94 There are a few possible design variations, but that would be a reasonable one.

 

Any interesting annotations on any of the artwork?

 

 

Incidentally, the "ATARIAGE" lettering in Stella' Stocking was keyed in direct hex (with a little trial and error). The gems in Strat-O-Gems were done in a text editor, though.

You telling me you can author an 8x8 sprite graphic in your HEAD and just spew out the hex codes top down? That's impressive! Actually, it's so impressive, it borders on SICK, sir! You would have loved some of our last resort byte saving tricks, when we were trying to crunch the code to fit into 4k. By the end, we were DESPERATE. One of my favorites, was changing a sound (or graphic) table to begin with hex code $60, which would allow that byte to do double duty .. as a RTS at the end of a subroutine, and as the first byte in the sound data table. There were other doozies, but this one in particular stuck in my memory as truly representative of how sick we were at the time. You would have fit right in, sir!

[supercat]

You telling me you can author an 8x8 sprite graphic in your HEAD and just spew out the hex codes top down?

See the lettering? Five sets of 20 bytes of hex (the code relies upon symmetry) Keyed mentally. The top two and bottom two line pairs were handled separately (so the "T" and "I" are both just a single line in the common case). BTW, the block in the upper-left corner is an emulation artifact and does not appear with real hardware.

 

I'll admit, though, that in some ways big lettering like that can be easier than an intricate 8x8 sprite, since there isn't a whole lot going on. An "A", for example, is just three bits getting shifted left every few lines. Since the letter is formed by two mirrored sprites with one pixel of overlap, the first line is $03 (two rightmost pixels). Then the steps outward are $07, $0E, $1C, $38, $70, $E0.

Edited April 14, 2008 by supercat

[accousticguitar]

You're a machine, supercat!

[supercat]

One of my favorites, was changing a sound (or graphic) table to begin with hex code $60, which would allow that byte to do double duty .. as a RTS at the end of a subroutine, and as the first byte in the sound data table. There were other doozies, but this one in particular stuck in my memory as truly representative of how sick we were at the time. You would have fit right in, sir!

 

Combat's use of the NMI register for a two-byte data table was pretty sweet. Why let the bytes at $1FFE-$1FFF go to waste?

 

If you want to appreciate how sick people are today, though, play Splatform. Great game, which probably could have sold like hotcakes in 1977. If Thomas Jentzch had programmed it then, though, he might have had to ask his boss, "Okay, aside from adding color cycling to protect people's television sets, what else should I do with the remaining 1,024 bytes (out of 2K)?"

splat101.bin

[+batari]

One of my favorites, was changing a sound (or graphic) table to begin with hex code $60, which would allow that byte to do double duty .. as a RTS at the end of a subroutine, and as the first byte in the sound data table. There were other doozies, but this one in particular stuck in my memory as truly representative of how sick we were at the time. You would have fit right in, sir!

 

Combat's use of the NMI register for a two-byte data table was pretty sweet. Why let the bytes at $1FFE-$1FFF go to waste?

 

If you want to appreciate how sick people are today, though, play Splatform. Great game, which probably could have sold like hotcakes in 1977. If Thomas Jentzch had programmed it then, though, he might have had to ask his boss, "Okay, aside from adding color cycling to protect people's television sets, what else should I do with the remaining 1,024 bytes (out of 2K)?"

Agree, times have changed... Just consider how many features certain hackers added to some games that were presumably already optimized.

 

For example, Nukey did some amazing work with Missile Command while keeping the original 4k size (he later expanded it to 8k, but the improvements at 4k were quite impressive.)

[Mord]

You telling me you can author an 8x8 sprite graphic in your HEAD and just spew out the hex codes top down?

 

That is supercat. He eats hex codes for breakfast.

 

 

--

Mord

[Osbo]

One of my favorites, was changing a sound (or graphic) table to begin with hex code $60, which would allow that byte to do double duty .. as a RTS at the end of a subroutine, and as the first byte in the sound data table. There were other doozies, but this one in particular stuck in my memory as truly representative of how sick we were at the time. You would have fit right in, sir!

 

Combat's use of the NMI register for a two-byte data table was pretty sweet. Why let the bytes at $1FFE-$1FFF go to waste?

 

If you want to appreciate how sick people are today, though, play Splatform. Great game, which probably could have sold like hotcakes in 1977. If Thomas Jentzch had programmed it then, though, he might have had to ask his boss, "Okay, aside from adding color cycling to protect people's television sets, what else should I do with the remaining 1,024 bytes (out of 2K)?"

Agree, times have changed... Just consider how many features certain hackers added to some games that were presumably already optimized.

 

For example, Nukey did some amazing work with Missile Command while keeping the original 4k size (he later expanded it to 8k, but the improvements at 4k were quite impressive.)

 

wow, thanks for posting, I cant believe I missed it!!

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I am with stephena and batari here. Introducing too much money would ruin a lot.

 

Of course I can only speak for myself here, but I don't do homebrews for the money. But I also don't do it for free. I expect to have fun while developing it, competing with orther homebrewers for the best solution for a problem, getting encouragement and (honest!) positive feedback. So I am mainly "ego-driven" here.

 

The fun is coming from the environment I am doing this, the limited hardware and parts of the community. The competion is coming from fellow homebrewers. Those are also giving me the most valuable feedback (since they are the only ones to really understand the technical background, e.g. my 1k games) and encouragement.

 

Close behind come those people who really test, play and hopefully enjoy my games. Especially those who are honest enough to give negative feedback when something is wrong (e.g. Nathan). And I don't care much if they actually buy the game or just download the binary and play it for free.

 

Last (and this time really least) are coming the collectors. Sure, the $5 are a nice add-on and over time it sums up. Thanks for that. But because money has never been even a minor factor for me here(!), its not that important. Also, since collectors tend to buy almost everything, them buying my game is just neutral or no feedback at all. So in the end, only their money counts.

 

And it is true, I have a lot of unreleased, unfinished stuff on my harddisk. The reason is NOT money, its a lack of time and motivation. Usually the games are just not interesting and good enough for further development and release.

 

BUT: If I would get $50 for each game sold, I might be tempted to "somehow" finish them and throw them on the market. Maybe that would make my bank account and some collectors happy. But the chances of me releasing further "full fledged" games would massively decline.

 

Again, I can only speak for myself here, but as far as I understand many other homebrewers/developers (some have posted here), their motivation is pretty similar. So, put more money into our hobby and you will sure get more games to buy. But you will also get a major quality drop. And not only on average!

Edited April 14, 2008 by Thomas Jentzsch